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Am I having an emotional affair?

MightyPen

By MightyPen
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lil hoodlum Established Member

lil hoodlum

Posted
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I like my wife, but I need to figure out if I still love her.

 

 

No, you don't love your wife.

 

If you loved your wife or had any respect for her, you wouldn't be carrying on with all of this behind her back.

 

It is obvious to everyone else that you are more emotionally invested in this other woman than to your wife.

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SummerDreams Established Member

SummerDreams

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I will not focus on whether this is cheating or not. I will not focus on your wife getting hurt out of this. The only thing I want to focus on is that you are a person who married this woman some years earlier when you need X things and now you are a changed person who needs Z things. I can assume this is the main reason that divorces happen, people change and realize what they needed 10 years earlier now seems like a joke, totally insignificant, while what they thought as stupid and irrelevant back then now it's the most important thing in the world. In your case I assume it is your wife's beauty but shallowness as opposed to this OW's intellectuallity and brain f#$% if you will excuse me the phrase. Well I can assure you that this happens to many people. Most of them stay "for the kids" but maybe from fear of the unknown as well. Some of them love themselves enough so to leave an unhappy and unfulfilling marriage and go find their happiness. Others wait until the kids grow up and leave the house to make their exit. The most important thing to me at this point is that you admit that you are unhappy and bored in your marriage. I'm a person who doesn't believe that some vows or a ring should oblige two people staying together forever regardless if they are happy or not. I do care for the kids though. So here comes the hard task for you; are you willing to work on your marriage so it gets better, your life becomes more satisfied and the kids have both their parents? If not, what will you do about it? Keeping an undercover online affair going forever, you know it yourself, is foolish and illusional. This OW is your wake up call for you to see that something is not going well. Will you take your own life into your own hands and do something about it or will you hide your head under the sand and hope it goes away? It's up to you.

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Mr. Lucky Established Member

Mr. Lucky

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Having gotten myself in a similar situation I must say if you truly valued this other woman you would stay away. This is a road that leads to heartbreak for all involved.

 

i think this important point got glossed over.

 

If you care about this online partner, you must also acknowledge you're risking her marriage, family and happiness. Were disaster to strike her end, I wonder if you'd still feel your daily contact was worth her pain and heartbreak, not to mention the potential destruction of her family life. And it obviously follows the same possible outcome exists for you.

 

In my eyes, you're both trading an awful lot for very little in return...

 

Mr. Lucky

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MightyPen Established Member

MightyPen

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The only thing I want to focus on is that you are a person who married this woman some years earlier when you need X things and now you are a changed person who needs Z things. I can assume this is the main reason that divorces happen, people change and realize what they needed 10 years earlier now seems like a joke, totally insignificant, while what they thought as stupid and irrelevant back then now it's the most important thing in the world. In your case I assume it is your wife's beauty but shallowness as opposed to this OW's intellectuallity and brain f#$% if you will excuse me the phrase.

 

 

Yes, I've changed significantly. She has too. I think that's really the foundation of all the issues. Your analysis is spot on.

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MightyPen Established Member

MightyPen

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i think this important point got glossed over.

 

If you care about this online partner, you must also acknowledge you're risking her marriage, family and happiness. Were disaster to strike her end, I wonder if you'd still feel your daily contact was worth her pain and heartbreak, not to mention the potential destruction of her family life. And it obviously follows the same possible outcome exists for you.

 

In my eyes, you're both trading an awful lot for very little in return...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

You strike me as very thoughtful. If you believe nothing else I've said, please believe that I care very much about her. My last email to her stressed that, above all else, I want her to have a happy, exciting, and fulfilling life. I do worry about her ability to handle the situation, although she has stressed that we are 100% on the same page in how we feel about our connection.

 

 

I was going to suggest we transition our emails to our work accounts, which I know is risky, but I thought that it would force ourselves to transition them into totally platonic messages.

SummerDreams Established Member

SummerDreams

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OP I would suggest some IC so you put your thoughts in place and start to solve "the foundation of all the issues" as you very well said it. Being obsessed with an OW or a forum or a hobby etc will not solve the root of the problem, it will only occupy your mind so you avoid the main problem. I understand facing the hard truth and trying to make huge changes is harsh on you (and to everyone for that matter) but keep in mind you got to do it sooner than later for your kids' and your own good. Your kids deserve a happy mother and father, even if these people are not a couple anymore.

autumnnight Established Member

autumnnight

Posted
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Yes, I've changed significantly. She has too. I think that's really the foundation of all the issues. Your analysis is spot on.

 

This is a nice way to sidestep your lack of boundaries and bad choices, IMO.

 

Everyone changes in a marriage and as they grow and age. This isn't about change. This is about lying, bad boundaries, entitlement, and selfishness, plain and simple.

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RightThere Established Member

RightThere

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I do sometimes (not often) fantasize about the OW during sex with my wife, but I dare one person, male or female, to say they've never done that.

 

I can tell you I've never, EVER, fantasized about another woman I'm having an emotional affair with while having sex with my wife/girlfriend.

 

(And yeah. It's different thinking about a celebrity versus the other woman you're emotionally cheating with).

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RightThere Established Member

RightThere

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I was going to suggest we transition our emails to our work accounts, which I know is risky, but I thought that it would force ourselves to transition them into totally platonic messages.

 

That will do nothing except allow you to push your inappropriate relationship further underground and keep it further from your wife "finding out" about it.

 

I'm sure you don't honestly believe you're doing it so you'll be better "friends".

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MightyPen Established Member

MightyPen

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OP I would suggest some IC so you put your thoughts in place and start to solve "the foundation of all the issues" as you very well said it. Being obsessed with an OW or a forum or a hobby etc will not solve the root of the problem, it will only occupy your mind so you avoid the main problem. I understand facing the hard truth and trying to make huge changes is harsh on you (and to everyone for that matter) but keep in mind you got to do it sooner than later for your kids' and your own good. Your kids deserve a happy mother and father, even if these people are not a couple anymore.

 

 

I agree I need counseling. I've always prided myself on being "normal" and sane and practical, but yeah I reeeeeally need to share with someone and figure these things out.

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MightyPen Established Member

MightyPen

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Again, I thank everyone for giving advice and sharing their own personal experiences. This was healthy for me today. I admittedly didn't get much work done, but I didn't think about the OW as much as I normally do. I was thinking more about myself and my family and what I want out of life.

 

 

I'll likely come by and post again tomorrow morning. This is also keeping me strong and helping me resist the (strong) temptation to email her to see how she's doing.

Try Established Member

Try

Posted
Posted (edited)
You might be right about the eventual detachment, but it hasn't happened yet.

the bigger issue is whether or not we should stay married, and really I don't think it has that much to do with the OW. I like my wife, but I need to figure out if I still love her.
First you say that you have not detached from your wife, and then right after that in the same post you say that you "need to figure out if" you "still love" your wife. Mix in the fact that you sometimes "fantasize about the OW during sex with" your wife, and of course emotional detachment from your wife has to do with your emotional affair with the OW. Edited by Try
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Mr. Lucky Established Member

Mr. Lucky

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My last email to her stressed that, above all else, I want her to have a happy, exciting, and fulfilling life.

 

Somewhat ironic since, with her cooperation, you're engaging in the single act that could blow that life to smithereens ...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Try Established Member

Try

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My spouse has many great qualities, but she can't give me the intellectual stimulation I've been craving.
And you cannot get this from one of your guy friends because?

 

I should have realized how high on my priority list this was many years ago, but I guess I didn't realize it at the time.
You should correct your statement "I guess I didn't realize it at the time", to states "I guess I didn't realize it before I had an emotional affair partner to compete with and compare you with".
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MightyPen Established Member

MightyPen

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First you say that you have not detached from your wife, and then right after that in the same post you say that you "need to figure out if" you "still love" your wife. Mix in the fact that you sometimes "fantasize about the OW during sex with" your wife, and of course emotional detachment from your wife has to do with your emotional affair with the OW.

 

It's complicated. Let me try to explain it better.

 

 

I have affection for my wife, but I'm not sure if this level of affection I have is really love or just a close bond based on being together so long. We have grown apart in many ways, some of which are too specific to put on a public forum. I don't think there's some "do I love her?" switch in my head with a "Yes/No" setting. It's not that black and white. I think you can have feelings for someone that might not be intense enough or complete enough to justify staying married. It seems like it's more of a continuum rather than some sort of binary thing.

 

 

And all of this predated the EA. True, I'm extremely attached to the OW (finally getting the hang of the vernacular here), but this is really more about me and what I think I need to be happier. And obviously it's about my wife. I've pondered the whole "stay together for the kids" thing, but then I thought about how crushing it would have to be to the other partner to be served divorce papers when the oldest kiddo graduates high school and suddenly realize that the other partner had been "waiting it out" for a decade or longer.

 

 

All those wasted years.

 

 

So I realize that's not a viable option and is not fair to her. I know I need to make a decision.

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MightyPen Established Member

MightyPen

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Last night, I thought a lot about marriage, and our expectations about it and how I think they are unrealistic and unnatural.

 

 

I'll come out and say that I think it's foolish to think a person can't legitimately love two (or more) people at the same time. I don't know if the idea spawns from religious stuff (probably not, as men had multiple wives back then), or what, but our brains and hearts don't have some arbitrary capacity for feelings.

 

 

So I'm not going to feel like a horrible person because I have romantic feelings for another human being. It's probably even natural to have feelings like that. Now I recognize I built my own situation, got married, had kids, so I don't have carte blanche to act however I want, but that's the logistical side of things. On the fundamental level, people can love many other people, and hell to take it further, biologically humans aren't even designed to be monogamous for 30, 40, or 50 years, so I understand why physical affairs take place as well.

 

 

I think our divorce rates support my position. Actually, I know they do.

 

 

Still, "the thing" to do for most people is to get married. I never even questioned "if" I would get married and have kids, as it was the "normal" thing to do. One day I'll have a long talk with my kids about their options in life and that they don't have to take the path many others take.

 

 

Sorry for the diatribe. I get going like this once in a while.

SummerDreams Established Member

SummerDreams

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Last night, I thought a lot about marriage, and our expectations about it and how I think they are unrealistic and unnatural.

 

 

I'll come out and say that I think it's foolish to think a person can't legitimately love two (or more) people at the same time. I don't know if the idea spawns from religious stuff (probably not, as men had multiple wives back then), or what, but our brains and hearts don't have some arbitrary capacity for feelings.

 

 

So I'm not going to feel like a horrible person because I have romantic feelings for another human being. It's probably even natural to have feelings like that. Now I recognize I built my own situation, got married, had kids, so I don't have carte blanche to act however I want, but that's the logistical side of things. On the fundamental level, people can love many other people, and hell to take it further, biologically humans aren't even designed to be monogamous for 30, 40, or 50 years, so I understand why physical affairs take place as well.

 

 

I think our divorce rates support my position. Actually, I know they do.

 

 

Still, "the thing" to do for most people is to get married. I never even questioned "if" I would get married and have kids, as it was the "normal" thing to do. One day I'll have a long talk with my kids about their options in life and that they don't have to take the path many others take.

 

 

Sorry for the diatribe. I get going like this once in a while.

 

I don't disagree and I would add that marriage is a way to secure yourself and people around you from everything, may it be financial stability or emotional stability for the couple and the kids or societal stability towards the family and friends who expect a family to exist only in a marriage situation. This is a huge topic and I won't even try to continue with the analysis. I will just tell you that the fact that people are not supposed to be monogamous for year (which is still debatable) or that someone CAN love two people at once does not justify your mistakes and responsibilities towards your wife and your kids. Even if you were not ready to get married and have kids or even if you didn't think about it that much, the fact now is that there is a wife who you once loved and maybe in a way still do and most importantly there are kids who expect to exist in a happy and securing family. Does this mean you have to sacrifice yourself and live in a lie? Absolutely not. It mean though that decisions MUST be made sooner than later and you are the only one to make them. I notice a philosophical mood that you have and I guess this is what you miss from your wife, the deep discussions, the sharing of the worries, the intellectual things, and I will guess also this is what you were looking for in a chatting site. It's ok that you go through this period in your life where you doubt everything you have done but this does not justify hurting innocent people because of it. This is why IC should start NOW so you discover what it is that you truly want and how you will get it. If you don't pay serious attention to this I can assure you that you will end up in a physical and emotional affair in no time and things will get ugly. There is something you are searching for in your life and your marriage and you don't find it there. It will be really soon that you will search it elsewhere and this will hurt not only your wife but mostly your kids. You don't want your kids to lose respect for their dad do you? (Sorry for my english, it's not my mother language).

autumnnight Established Member

autumnnight

Posted
Posted
Last night, I thought a lot about marriage, and our expectations about it and how I think they are unrealistic and unnatural.

 

 

I'll come out and say that I think it's foolish to think a person can't legitimately love two (or more) people at the same time. I don't know if the idea spawns from religious stuff (probably not, as men had multiple wives back then), or what, but our brains and hearts don't have some arbitrary capacity for feelings.

 

 

So I'm not going to feel like a horrible person because I have romantic feelings for another human being. It's probably even natural to have feelings like that. Now I recognize I built my own situation, got married, had kids, so I don't have carte blanche to act however I want, but that's the logistical side of things. On the fundamental level, people can love many other people, and hell to take it further, biologically humans aren't even designed to be monogamous for 30, 40, or 50 years, so I understand why physical affairs take place as well.

 

 

I think our divorce rates support my position. Actually, I know they do.

 

 

Still, "the thing" to do for most people is to get married. I never even questioned "if" I would get married and have kids, as it was the "normal" thing to do. One day I'll have a long talk with my kids about their options in life and that they don't have to take the path many others take.

 

 

Sorry for the diatribe. I get going like this once in a while.

 

Sounds like you've come up with a nice sounding justification for your blatant betrayal.

 

Good luck

  • Like 6
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MightyPen Established Member

MightyPen

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I don't disagree and I would add that marriage is a way to secure yourself and people around you from everything, may it be financial stability or emotional stability for the couple and the kids or societal stability towards the family and friends who expect a family to exist only in a marriage situation. This is a huge topic and I won't even try to continue with the analysis. I will just tell you that the fact that people are not supposed to be monogamous for year (which is still debatable) or that someone CAN love two people at once does not justify your mistakes and responsibilities towards your wife and your kids. Even if you were not ready to get married and have kids or even if you didn't think about it that much, the fact now is that there is a wife who you once loved and maybe in a way still do and most importantly there are kids who expect to exist in a happy and securing family. Does this mean you have to sacrifice yourself and live in a lie? Absolutely not. It mean though that decisions MUST be made sooner than later and you are the only one to make them. I notice a philosophical mood that you have and I guess this is what you miss from your wife, the deep discussions, the sharing of the worries, the intellectual things, and I will guess also this is what you were looking for in a chatting site. It's ok that you go through this period in your life where you doubt everything you have done but this does not justify hurting innocent people because of it. This is why IC should start NOW so you discover what it is that you truly want and how you will get it. If you don't pay serious attention to this I can assure you that you will end up in a physical and emotional affair in no time and things will get ugly. There is something you are searching for in your life and your marriage and you don't find it there. It will be really soon that you will search it elsewhere and this will hurt not only your wife but mostly your kids. You don't want your kids to lose respect for their dad do you? (Sorry for my english, it's not my mother language).

 

 

 

I really appreciate your thoughtfulness, and your English is just fine! You express yourself really well - better than many native speakers.

 

 

And yeah my "philosophical mood" and all that follows in your comment is much of the problem. I constantly analyze and ponder things, think about big questions and abstract ideas, hypotheticals, etc., and my wife's brain just doesn't work like that. It's not a slam against her. It's just the way things are.

 

 

And to the people who say "get your stimulation elsewhere," the problem is that this is #1 on my list of needs, waaaay above sex or physical touching or even kind/loving words. I'm not sure if I can continue in a marriage where my #1 need isn't met. Does anyone else have a #1 need that they fulfill outside of the marriage? I'd love to hear about it (honestly).

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MightyPen Established Member

MightyPen

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Sounds like you've come up with a nice sounding justification for your blatant betrayal.

 

Good luck

 

 

That sort of "drive by" slam doesn't add anything to the conversation, and it's not thoughtful or helpful at all. You didn't even address the substantive thoughts. You just insulted me and drove off. Nice.

Bittersweetie Established Member

Bittersweetie

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MP,

I'm a fWW who reconciled with my BH. Much of my A was online too. I have to say, a lot of what you've written here, sounds like justifications for what you are doing/have done. Things to tell yourself so that you're not the bad guy in this situation, to make things not sound that bad. The reason I say that is because I said all those things to myself at some point. Things like this:

 

  • Do you really think any spouse can meet ALL of his/her spouses needs? I've yet to meet that person.
     
  • People change you know. A person who marries at 25 can be a much different person at 35. I didn't run some bait and switch with my wife.
     
  • I'll come out and say that I think it's foolish to think a person can't legitimately love two (or more) people at the same time. I don't know if the idea spawns from religious stuff (probably not, as men had multiple wives back then), or what, but our brains and hearts don't have some arbitrary capacity for feelings.

 

When I channeled my energy into my online AP, of course my marriage didn't seem that great. Of course my H wasn't perfect. I thought AP was my soulmate. What I see now is that projected onto him all of the things I needed and wanted at that time, making him the Perfect Man. Therefore my H couldn't compete...because he wasn't competing with a real person.

 

You say that your AP is a valued friend...what about your wife? Isn't she your friend too? After all that we've gone through, my H is now my best friend. We turn toward each other instead of away.

 

I would second the recommendation for IC. Also stay NC because the only way your head will clear is if AP is out of the picture. Yes, it will hurt but it can be done. I'm over 5.5 years NC.

 

Good luck.

  • Like 3
SoleMate Established Member

SoleMate

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OP, when was the last time you sat down and had a true heart to heart discussion with your wife? It's been a while, I'm sure. Why not have that conversation tonight?

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DKT3 Established Member

DKT3

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Posted
That sort of "drive by" slam doesn't add anything to the conversation, and it's not thoughtful or helpful at all. You didn't even address the substantive thoughts. You just insulted me and drove off. Nice.

 

Actually, autumn is dead on. All of what you've done here is using different angles to justify your poor decisions.

 

You're not really hearing what people here are saying to you. Blantly, how can you be in love with someone you don't know? You love the way you feel when communicating with her, you may be in love with the fantasy world the two of you have created, but no way you love her. The truth is she could be some 60 year old bald dude. Or someone who has created a total fictonial persona. Now I know your response will be to defend how you know its all true. Honestly, you have no idea.

 

As far as you wife goes, your simply compartmentalizing your life with her. You've put her in a box in an effort to make yourself feel better.

 

Here is what I see. You married, then found marriage to be restrictive. You begun to miss out or feel your missing out. None of which has anything to do with your wife. Along comes this other woman and all of a sudden everything falls into place.

 

The problem here? This is your issue, there is something about YOU that you are unhappy about. Your wife was unable to fill that void. This OW would never be able to fill that void. Stop looking for external ways to fill an internal void. As my father would say stop chasing unhappiness.

  • Like 5
Try Established Member

Try

Posted
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biologically humans aren't even designed to be monogamous for 30, 40, or 50 years, so I understand why physical affairs take place as well.

 

 

I think our divorce rates support my position. Actually, I know they do.

Major studies show that although some people do cheat, that most people do not. Also, the divorce rate is misleading when misapplied like you are doing. In coming up with this rate, they take the number of marriages and compare it to the number of divorces, thus people that marry and divorce multiple times will skew the rate such that some will falsely state that 1/2 of all people that get married will divorce, when in fact approximately 2/3 that get married do not divorce. For example if you have 3 brothers where 2 of the brothers do not divorce and one of the brothers has married and divorced 3 times, the divorce rate for these brothers would be 1/2 (3 divorces divided by 6 marriages) ever though 2 of the 3 brothers never divorced.

 

Although it may make you feel better to try to justify your cheating and divorce by saying that it is the norm, it is not. You should just embrace your betrayal for what it is, and stop falsely throwing it around on everyone else.

  • Like 1
autumnnight Established Member

autumnnight

Posted
Posted
That sort of "drive by" slam doesn't add anything to the conversation, and it's not thoughtful or helpful at all. You didn't even address the substantive thoughts. You just insulted me and drove off. Nice.

 

The posts you thank are the ones who enable your position that it is fine to continue this friendship.

 

It is not fine to continue this friendship. It is not fine to deceive your wife. It is not fine to be intimately close with a woman other than your wife.

 

The fine thing to do is to cut off all contact with this woman and work on your marriage. That is what a person of character would do.

 

The thing is, you are obviously articulate and intelligent...so you already know this. You just prefer to keep cheating.

  • Like 4
While the thread author can add an update and reopen discussion, this thread was last posted in over a month ago. Want to continue the conversation? Feel free to start a new thread instead!
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