Am I having an emotional affair?

September 29, 2015

Popsicle,

Thanks for being tough but kind in your posts. That sort of response is more likely to get me to hang around and keep getting support.

A few posters on my other thread apparently thought calling me (and the OW) names was the better approach.

September 29, 2015

To stat off, you're rationalizing, and it's been my observation that people rationalize when they know, at heart, that what they are doing is wrong.

A second point. When did you realize that you value your independence? Just after you got married/ before your wife got pregnant? When you started chatting with this other woman?

Third, you have fallen for a a fantasy person that doesn't really exist. one can be anything they want online, and the person they are chatting with will never know.

It's kind of ironic in a way. What would you tell your kids about being careful when chatting online? Are you following your own safety rules?

September 29, 2015

If your son or daughter said to you they found "love" in a chat room, have never met the person in real life, or had real life in person relationship with this person, what you advise them about it?

Assuming my kiddo was a single adult, I'd probably say something like, "Life is short. Take chances and meet people. Follow your heart but always give your brain veto power."

September 29, 2015

I'm not sure how to start that conversation.

And note that I said -I- wouldn't have a problem with it. She would not accept my relationship with this woman even if it were 100% friendly (which it's obviously not).

If it wasn't for the kids, I would probably be inclined to talk about my unhappiness, but as you all know, the kids change everything. So I guess I'm just using this relationship as a sort of band aid to make me happier and meet an important need without destroying our lives and filing for divorce.

I'm sorry, but that's a lazy cop out.

You can talk to your wife if you are unhappy. That doesn't have to translate to getting a divorce. What is can translate into is the two of you finding ways to make your relationship better.

As it stands right now, you are writing off your wife without even giving her an honest chance. How can she possibly meet needs she knows nothing about?

September 29, 2015

To stat off, you're rationalizing, and it's been my observation that people rationalize when they know, at heart, that what they are doing is wrong.

A second point. When did you realize that you value your independence? Just after you got married/ before your wife got pregnant? When you started chatting with this other woman?

Third, you have fallen for a a fantasy person that doesn't really exist. one can be anything they want online, and the person they are chatting with will never know.

It's kind of ironic in a way. What would you tell your kids about being careful when chatting online? Are you following your own safety rules?

The OW has nothing to do with me realizing I value independence. I had a job change a few years ago, and I was doing a self-assessment of the types of job environments I'd most like to have, and I kept realizing that independence/control over my schedule and time, not being micromanaged, doing as I pleased as long as I got the job done were all #1 on my list.

People change you know. A person who marries at 25 can be a much different person at 35. I didn't run some bait and switch with my wife.

And being "online" now really means nothing. We're all online. Hell, most dating companies are online companies. It's how we all communicate. Regardless of how you meet someone, you're going to eventually want to share more information about yourself and take a (calculated) leap of faith, based on your vetting of that person in your previous interactions.

September 29, 2015

I'm a 50-year old woman who has been what you have been through - and ended an 11-year relationship to be with the person I was talking to. The clincher was that the ending of *that* relationship a little over two years into it is what brought me to this site in 2008. Sure, there was this amazing intellectual connection with someone I was talking with and I foolishly believed that because we clicked "on so many levels," that the rest would work out and we would live happily ever after. Ummmmmm.... no.

"can men and women be friends?" thing and they pretty much said they can be "friendly acquaintances" but not really friends, because "friends" are people you appreciate on many levels, and let's face it, if you truly find a woman funny, smart, and charming and even a little bit sexy, and end up having personal conversations with her or spending quality time with her, many guys (myself included) are probably going to start fantasizing about her.

However, I did meet and marry a man just two years ago and because I am further along in years, I *do* have a lot of old male friends; some of whom are Ex's. The difference? My husband has met and knows about every single one of them. NOTHING is hidden. In some instances, these guys have stayed at our house as overnight guests or come to dinner. In other cases, we chat online. Heck, I may even collaborate on a book with a guy who was my boyfriend some 35 years prior!

But - again - in every single instance, my husband has complete and total knowledge of who I am speaking with and why. He understands that I have a friend with whom I share a particular interest in a certain genre of music. Would my husband like to spend an evening at a punk concert? Nope, so he knows that my old friend Tom will go with me - and that Tom will get me home safe after the three of us may have had dinner together. Or the guy I may write a book with? He and I can speak for hours on the subject we will be writing about (an intellectual connection, as it were) that my husband will only have a cursory interest in. When I told my husband of the book idea, he encouraged it because he knows it is a subject I am passionate about and would have fun researching and writing.

I know that my arrangement is an exception, but if you want a strong life-long marriage, you have to share with your partner all of your hopes and dreams. The best partnerships allow you the space to grow and thrive on your own - even with the knowledge that sometimes you will meet and need others to help that growth. And a supportive spouse will assist in that growth; be intellectual, spiritual, or whatever. But you must be open and honest about it.

Hiding those connections makes it sordid and is not fair to the spouse.

We are currently taking a break from each other to give us time to reevaluate things. It was my idea. It's killing me not talking with her but I'm trying to be strong. I value her so much as a person it's ridiculous.

That is because you are in love with her. You just can't admit it...

September 29, 2015

Popsicle,

Thanks for being tough but kind in your posts. That sort of response is more likely to get me to hang around and keep getting support.

A few posters on my other thread apparently thought calling me (and the OW) names was the better approach.

Report them.

September 29, 2015

The OW has nothing to do with me realizing I value independence. I had a job change a few years ago, and I was doing a self-assessment of the types of job environments I'd most like to have, and I kept realizing that independence/control over my schedule and time, not being micromanaged, doing as I pleased as long as I got the job done were all #1 on my list.

People change you know. A person who marries at 25 can be a much different person at 35. I didn't run some bait and switch with my wife.

And being "online" now really means nothing. We're all online. Hell, most dating companies are online companies. It's how we all communicate. Regardless of how you meet someone, you're going to eventually want to share more information about yourself and take a (calculated) leap of faith, based on your vetting of that person in your previous interactions.

You either didn't understand what I meant, or you are rationalizing.

By rationalizing, I meant that you are finding excuses to make what you are doing seem okay to you, even though a big part of you knows that it's not. If you didn't know it was wrong, you wouldn't have asked in the first place.

I think you were hoping someone would say that it was okay.

I have been married a long tie myself, and I fully realize people can change.

I was asking when you suddenly realized you have a need for independence because it's a common phenomena for people who are in affairs to rewrite their history and to suddenly come to conclusions about themselves that only come about during the affair, and surprisingly enough, they are almost always things that excuse the affair or at least try to explain it.

I am fully aware of how the world spends a lot of time online, and I am also fully aware that a lot of what is online is cr@p. Just like online dating photos are often old or taken in such a way that they hide what the person really looks like, so does online conversation hide who someone really is.( hence the term "catfishing")

It's very easy to pretend to be someone online who is not who you are in real life. Is your online persona really who you are?

I suppose none of that really matters. You have problems in your marriage, but you are not willing to do the hard work it might take to fix them.

(btw...chatting to one woman for a year online is not a sign of someone who values their Independence...you have become dependent on her)

September 29, 2015

Having gotten myself in a similar situation I must say if you truly valued this other woman you would stay away. This is a road that leads to heartbreak for all involved.

Secondly, this isn't love. I understand how it makes you feel to have this other woman stroke your ego because she thinks your great. That is what has you hooked. In the real world you have no idea who this woman really is (I sure as hell didn't ). What you see is what she is showing not who she is. Being addicted to the attention and the feelings that come from it will maske even the bright red flags that one would normally see.

Breaking the addiction is hard, but not that hard.

September 29, 2015

That is because you are in love with her. You just can't admit it...

Actually, I admitted it earlier. At least to the extent you can fall in "love" with someone without physically meeting. I know it's not the same thing.

And your relationship sounds very unique and fulfilling for everyone involved. Your husband must be a very open-minded and confident person. My hat is off to you both.

September 29, 2015

Having gotten myself in a similar situation I must say if you truly valued this other woman you would stay away. This is a road that leads to heartbreak for all involved.

Secondly, this isn't love. I understand how it makes you feel to have this other woman stroke your ego because she thinks your great. That is what has you hooked. In the real world you have no idea who this woman really is (I sure as hell didn't ). What you see is what she is showing not who she is. Being addicted to the attention and the feelings that come from it will maske even the bright red flags that one would normally see.

Breaking the addiction is hard, but not that hard.

This is just my personal experience and opinion...so take it for what it is worth

I had an addiction as well ( not to a person or a substance, but something that ate up a lot of my time and energy, leaving little for anything else)

I started it because it took my mind off the emotional pain I was in, and it just became easier to be addicted than it was to deal with the pain, which stayed and festered.

The addiction was easy, dealing with the root cause of it was so much harder, but in the long run, I was better for it.

September 29, 2015

We are currently taking a break from each other to give us time to reevaluate things. It was my idea. It's killing me not talking with her but I'm trying to be strong. I value her so much as a person it's ridiculous.

I hate to state the obvious but this doesn't fair well for your wife, does it? You value this other woman yet you're not valuing your wife and mother to your children.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse but you need to really listen to the things you're saying.

You do realize that you're not the only person who's been in an unhappy, unfulfilled, stale relationship, married or not. I was with my ex hubby for TWENTY YEARS and most of it was unhappy and unfulfilled and sexless to boot. I've talked a great deal about that time in my life and how, after countless years of heart wrenching soul searching, I found the courage to end it before I did something I'd regret. And believe me, I had plenty of opportunity (and his permission) to get what I needed outside my marriage. I didn't want to be that kind of woman so I had to choose.

Straying in your relationship is a CHOICE.

We all have crosses we have to carry and struggles and obstacles to overcome. Do you think ending a marriage is an easy thing for other people? Do you think I didn't cry myself to sleep worried about what a divorce would do to my children, my parents, how I'd support myself on just my income, how I'd juggle single parenthood and work and still be able to provide for my children? Throw in dating again and I was an emotional basket case. I gave up A LOT in the pursuit of happiness. It was f*cking hard as hell but in the end, it was all worth it.

So don't tell me why you can't end your marriage. There are scads of people who are much worse off than you and still manage to hold on to their integrity. If you love your wife and your family, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT - FIGHT for them for heaven's sake! If you don't, stop making excuses for your behavior and make some hard decisions.

You don't value your wife and by your own admission you're staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids and finances yet want some kind of hall pass for your sacrifice. It doesn't work that way. Being in a marriage with one foot in and one foot out is NOT a marriage. And if you think your children don't see things or feel what's going on in your relationship, you're dead wrong.

I'm glad to see you're taking a break but you still have a lot of soul searching still to do. It's an impossible situation you've created for yourself with this other woman. You've fallen down the rabbit hole and it's not going to be easy clawing your way out of it. But you need to decide to climb or not.

Good luck.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Michelle ma Belle

September 29, 2015

Having gotten myself in a similar situation I must say if you truly valued this other woman you would stay away. This is a road that leads to heartbreak for all involved.

Secondly, this isn't love. I understand how it makes you feel to have this other woman stroke your ego because she thinks your great. That is what has you hooked. In the real world you have no idea who this woman really is (I sure as hell didn't ). What you see is what she is showing not who she is. Being addicted to the attention and the feelings that come from it will maske even the bright red flags that one would normally see.

Breaking the addiction is hard, but not that hard.

It is VERY helpful for me to hear from other guys who have been in a similar situation. I honestly don't want heartbreak for anyone; I mean, I'm not a sociopath. And yeah, obviously we don't know each other like folks would know each other by spending real time together, but after probably a thousand emails and hundreds of chats and numerous phone calls, I'd like to think I would have picked up on any glaring inconsistencies. We know each others' work places (I even have the web site with her boss's telephone # on it) so there is a huge amount of trust both ways. But yeah I'm hooked - there's no doubt about it.

September 29, 2015

This is just my personal experience and opinion...so take it for what it is worth

I had an addiction as well ( not to a person or a substance, but something that ate up a lot of my time and energy, leaving little for anything else)

I started it because it took my mind off the emotional pain I was in, and it just became easier to be addicted than it was to deal with the pain, which stayed and festered.
The addiction was easy, dealing with the root cause of it was so much harder, but in the long run, I was better for it.

I understand you may not want to talk about what your addiction was. I was just curious about what it was, because I realize I run hot/cold on things. Like, for a year or two I'll be obsessed with something, be it poker or investing/finances or exercising, but then I'll move on to a new obsession. In many ways, she's been my obsession for this past year.

September 29, 2015

It's obviously been stated that this is clearly an affair. Explaining this to your "friend" and breaking contact is for the best.

It's sounds like their is a breakdown in communication with your wife and you feel that you can't open up to her.

I may be stating the obvious my it you clearly need to work this through with some marriage counselling. And some personal sessions to work through your addiction wouldn't hurt either.

I hope you guys work this one out.

September 29, 2015

So after spending half the morning reading posts on here, what do I do? I sign onto my email and reread the last few messages we sent each other before the "break" started late last week.

Ugh. Not one of my better ideas.

We both told each other we'd figure out ways to be long-term friends no matter what. Now I'm resorting to visualizing her on the toilet in a vain attempt to start viewing her as a "buddy" who is sometimes totally gross and unsexy.

September 29, 2015

So now you understand that yes, you are having an affair...

What is your plan moving forward? Cut her off completely or continue with the affair?

Everyone on this thread knows I'm desperately trying to find the middle ground, which everyone seems to agree doesn't exist.

September 29, 2015

You already know there is no middle ground. You know exactly how the wife you claim to love would feel about it.

So are you going to make the choice in line with honorable character, or are you going to be selfish and betray your wife?

It really IS that simple.

September 29, 2015

Assuming my kiddo was a single adult, I'd probably say something like, "Life is short. Take chances and meet people. Follow your heart but always give your brain veto power."

Life isn't really short, 20, 30 or 40 years is a long time to deal with the fallout of a decision, ones like your making now.

What is your end game? I gather that your intent is to maintain your marriage while having this mental/emotional thing on the side.

I'm picking up clues that you've never really been emotionally vested in your marriage or in your wife. You haven't given her the chance to be to you what you've allowed (yes allowed) this other woman to be. I would bet she isn't more enlighted then your wife, your just more open to it.

Trust me, I know. We can get so wrapped up in seeing our wives as MOTHER, CEO HOMEMAKER, BILL PAYER, every thing expect the sexy intellegent women we fell for to start with.

Again, what is your end game? If its to stay married then how does this help? Will it make the relationship with your wife better? Will it make you a better father? A better role model for your kids? Or is it counterproductive to those ends?

Marrige is what you put into it, what would happen if you focused this energy and effort into you wife and marriage? It has helped my relationship a great deal. It has helped me see the sexy intellegent fun WOMAN she is and always has been.

September 29, 2015

I understand you may not want to talk about what your addiction was. I was just curious about what it was, because I realize I run hot/cold on things. Like, for a year or two I'll be obsessed with something, be it poker or investing/finances or exercising, but then I'll move on to a new obsession. In many ways, she's been my obsession for this past year.

The addiction I had was to video games ( not online).

It didn't last long, as my husband got me out of it. It was easier to be "there' than face what was going on in the real world.

Keep in mind the old maxim that you can only run from yourself and your life for so long.

September 29, 2015

So after spending half the morning reading posts on here, what do I do? I sign onto my email and reread the last few messages we sent each other before the "break" started late last week.

Ugh. Not one of my better ideas.

We both told each other we'd figure out ways to be long-term friends no matter what. Now I'm resorting to visualizing her on the toilet in a vain attempt to start viewing her as a "buddy" who is sometimes totally gross and unsexy.

Instead of that, try picturing her with her long term relationship partner. What does he look like? what do they like to do together? How did they meet? What does he do for a living? What sort of home do they have? Do they have any kids or pets together?

Have you sen her social media presence? Does she mention him on her facebook postings? Are there photos of them together, or does she keep those hidden from you?

If you don't know the answers to these things, then there is a lot about her that you really don't know.

September 29, 2015

I guess the better question is, can I end the emotional affair but keep the friendship? Is such a thing doable?

No, you can't. How can you emotionally detach and get over her when you are still in contact? Also, ask yourself this, how would you feel if your wife was befriending a man and doing what you're doing. Getting to know someone else on an emotional level. I'm sure you'd be hurt and feel like what she was doing is totally inappropriate. Apply that to you now.

No good can come of this, as time goes on you'll detach from your wife, care less about her and become too focused on the OW. End it and spice up your life with your wife. Go on a trip together, remember why you married her in the first place! To invest in another woman and put energy into the OW when you have a wife at home is pointless and will only cause confusion, pain and heartache.

If you are unhappy and don't love your wife, then divorce.

September 29, 2015

Mightypen......I felt compelled to write as I have been on the other side of this. My ex husband was guilty of what you're doing and I found out, yes he was unhappy in the marriage we both were, yes we had children that would have been devastated by a break up but do you know what, if he'd been honest from the start instead of talking to someone else myself and my children would not have gone through as much heartbreak as we did.

I look back now and wish he had told me just how unhappy he was instead of glossing over it, I wish I'd told him the same, my life and my children's lives will never be the same again, they have no relationship with him because they have no respect for him and they weren't young adults when it all happened either. Children have a way of finding things out, they didn't from me, but they overheard, saw correspondence and figured it out for themselves down the line, to the point where they asked him outright and he admitted it.

He has lost out on every single part of their lives because of his selfish behaviour, which he couldn't see at the time, she filled a void, she stimulated him, pretty much everything you've said, he said.

If you want the honest opinion from someone on the other side of the coin, do your wife a favour and end the marriage before you loose absolutely everything and believe me it does happen, we are living proof.

September 29, 2015

Instead of that, try picturing her with her long term relationship partner. What does he look like? what do they like to do together? How did they meet? What does he do for a living? What sort of home do they have? Do they have any kids or pets together?

Have you sen her social media presence? Does she mention him on her facebook postings? Are there photos of them together, or does she keep those hidden from you?

If you don't know the answers to these things, then there is a lot about her that you really don't know.

Yes we've shared such information. Initially, we tip-toed around it but slowly we started to verbally acknowledge the other person's SO. We've shared pics of our houses, our pets, our offices, although yes we stopped short of sending "couple photos." There didn't seem to be any point to doing that. We view each other's FB pages but obviously don't friend each other. She's comfortable enough with me to let me call her at work on her work phone. We trust and value each other very much. That's the main reason I keep trying to cling to the idea of a friendship. If it was just sex talk, I would have lost interest long ago.

September 29, 2015

No, you can't. How can you emotionally detach and get over her when you are still in contact? Also, ask yourself this, how would you feel if your wife was befriending a man and doing what you're doing. Getting to know someone else on an emotional level. I'm sure you'd be hurt and feel like what she was doing is totally inappropriate. Apply that to you now.

No good can come of this, as time goes on you'll detach from your wife, care less about her and become too focused on the OW. End it and spice up your life with your wife. Go on a trip together, remember why you married her in the first place! To invest in another woman and put energy into the OW when you have a wife at home is pointless and will only cause confusion, pain and heartache.

If you are unhappy and don't love your wife, then divorce.

You might be right about the eventual detachment, but it hasn't happened yet. Actually, things have been much "spicier" at home these last few months (more sexy texts during the day, more risqué bedroom activities that she seems to like very much). I do sometimes (not often) fantasize about the OW during sex with my wife, but I dare one person, male or female, to say they've never done that.

But yes the bigger issue is whether or not we should stay married, and really I don't think it has that much to do with the OW. I like my wife, but I need to figure out if I still love her.

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