titleist Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 I have known my now-fianceé, Claire, for 12 years. I am 29, she is 28. We met each other through a mutual friend and dated for a couple of weeks in 2007, but didn’t continue because I was moving away to school. We kept sporadic contact throughout the years, and saw each other a few times. Claire got in a long-term relationship with Tim in late 2007, and stayed in that relationship until we got together in December 2014. She had a baby, James, with Tim in 2013. I do not have any children. I also always had other girlfriends when we would meet up and talk, so nothing ever came of those meetings, although we always felt very attracted to each other. I respected her relationship and didn’t escalate with her. We went out in December 2014, and the sexual tension was high. I was dating other girls at the time, but none seriously. She was still with her boyfriend, but was on the brink of leaving him. Tim had recently a child with another woman while they were together, and Claire had forgiven him (which I found very strange), but she said that she had fallen out of love with him. I escalated quickly with her, and we ended up having sex at my apartment until 4am. She said that she had never before cheated on him during their 8-year relationship, but that she had always liked me and wanted me. We quickly became infatuated with each other. I think it was easier for me to do this because we’d known each other for so long. Claire is gorgeous and exactly my type physically. She's kind to everyone, gentle, considerate, beautiful, funny, a hard worker, a great mother, and we clicked. Although there were quite a few red flags early on, I ignored them and quickly got into a relationship with her. She broke up with Tim. Claire still lived with her mom, and Tim with his parents, when we started dating. They had never lived together. She would drop her baby boy off at his house during the day while she went to work, and he would take care of the child. He did not and does not work. She would pick him up after work. This arrangement continues to this day. Claire told me that she and Tim would rarely have sex during the last few years of their relationship, and at one point went 10 months without. They would also rarely hang out or spend quality time together. Apparently, Tim was upset about this, but was not proactive in changing their situation. In fact, neither of them is proactive about anything, and this is probably why their relationship worked for so long. No motivation to get married, move in together, or make any advancement in their relationship. Claire has worked for the same company for 15 years, but was recently promoted to corporate. I had an apartment by myself when Claire and I got together. Our relationship was amazing for the first six months. I have dated a good number of women, but never felt as strongly about anyone as I did her. I grew to love her son. I proposed to her in April and she accepted. We were both ecstatic. I loved her with all my heart, and she told me the same, although I see now that it may have been infatuation. I still do. My lease ended in May, and I suggested that we move in together. We got an apartment together. Three days after we moved in together, we found out that Claire was pregnant. Things immediately went downhill. Claire got annoyed at every little thing that I did. It quickly started to seem like she just didn’t want to be around me. It seemed like she just wanted to be at her mom’s. We argued constantly. Her main complaints about me were that my steps were heavy on the floor, I left water bottles out, and I pronounced several words wrong.. (!) We took space for a couple of weeks in July, and she went back to her mom’s. She moved back to our apartment a couple of weeks later. Things were slightly improved, but not much. Claire is extremely attached to her mom. She said that it’s just comfort for her, and she likes to be around her mom. If I broke up with her, she wouldn’t be able to get a place on her own, but she would move in with her mom. I think this is why she has little motivation to improve our relationship. Her mom is her safety net and they’re extremely attached to each other. I like her mom and family very much, and they like me. However, I feel confident that if we were to break up, Claire would live at her mom’s forever. Claire never brings up issues regarding anything that is important in our relationship. She thinks I’m difficult and rude, yet I believe I only seem so because I’m irritated that she won’t talk to me. She thinks everything has to be “my way”, but that is simply not true. I always ask her opinion on things, I want her input, I want to know what she cares about, what’s important to her, what she wants to do on a daily basis, what her long-term goals are, how she wants to manage our finances, and I am extremely flexible with almost everything. Yet it’s impossible to make compromises, cooperate with each other, or make mutual decisions if I don’t know anything about what she needs or wants. It’s obvious that neither of our expectations are being met. Mine have been made clear, and she makes no effort to meet them. I need very little, but she offers nothing. I’ve asked what hers are, and she has never given me a response. In the evenings it seems like she’s always annoyed with me. I try to do little things such as get dinner for us, and she just seems annoyed with me. She only shows trivial interest in anything that matters to me, while I show interest in things that matter to her. Claire does not take the initiative on anything, ever. She doesn’t initiate plans, she accepts the ones I make (grudgingly), but she never seems enthusiastic about doing anything with me. Even before we moved in together, she rarely suggested anything or tried to make weekend plans. She says, “well, we live together and see each other every day, why do we need to spend more time together?” I consider myself very independent, and love spending time alone, with friends, pursuing my own goals, and doing my own thing. And I also love spending time with the person I love. I have never been with someone that was LESS clingy than I am (and I don’t see myself as clingy at all). She does initiate a lot of conversation throughout the day, always with an upbeat tone, but in the evenings she’s often very subdued. She never questions me at all about what I do if I go out in the evenings. I don’t do this often now, but I could go out before she gets home, stay out until 11-12, and she’d ask how my evening was. I could say “I went to bar ABC” and she’d say “Oh cool! Did you have fun?” Claire has major confidence and self-esteem issues, and doesn’t like to tell people anything. She things everyone judges her. She is very shy around others. She’s still barely comfortable with me when it comes to her body, which I love. It makes little sense to me, because she’s smart and physically beautiful. This isn’t just my opinion. She admits that she does not have much confidence, both professionally and socially. I’m fine with that, and I try to reassure her quite a bit, because she has great qualities and is beautiful to me. Even more so with her baby bump. I try to do things with James, and it seems like she wants my support with him less and less. She even once expressed that she expects me to be involved with James “only in terms of playing with him”. I told her that was unacceptable and she said it was a joke. Yet it seems to be true. She’s never even offered to leave James alone with me. It is possible that she actually does not know what she needs or wants in a relationship; in that case, she just needs to tell me how her expectations are not being met. She won’t do this. She indicated that she is upset that she would have to leave her job if she has our baby, and I felt a tinge of resentment in that. It was obviously not a good idea to get pregnant at this point in our relationship, and I regret that she didn’t oppose it out of fear. Claire sleeps with James in our bed every night, and nurses him to sleep. He is almost 22 months old. I don’t believe this is healthy and I don’t like it. However, I know she is used to doing it, and it was never my intention to force her to stop immediately. I suggested about three weeks ago that we slowly transition James to sleeping in his own bed. She replied with “ok”. I asked her if she agreed that was a good idea, and she said “partially”. She never brought it up again or made any effort to discuss it or to start transitioning him to his crib at night. I think we should be sleeping together, and James in his own room. If she wants to continue doing this, I’d like to discuss why she thinks it is appropriate or a good idea. She’s never made any effort to come my way. I haven’t brought it up again because other issues seem more pressing. But it is definitely a big deal to me. When Claire has my child, I will not want him/her sleeping in bed with us at all, or in the same bed with Claire either if we are to break up, although I wouldn’t be able to control the latter. I’m not a dictator and don’t want to make any unilateral decisions. All I want to do is talk things out and compromise. Claire’s sex drive is basically zero now. We have sex about twice a week, and she does it whenever I try, but just doesn’t seem to want it. It feels like I have to force her to. I asked her if she thinks her lack of sex drive is due to the pregnancy. She said she thinks it might be. But it’s tough to have sex with someone that just seems to be forcing themselves to do it. I know the issue is not the actual sex from my end. The sex itself is good. When we have sex, she enjoys it, but seems to forget that she enjoyed it right after the fact. If it’s due to the pregnancy, then it would be fine with me. I love her and can compromise on how often we have sex. However, I do need more affection than she seems comfortable with. She doesn’t want to give me any at all. We have talked about these things, and she says that it seems ridiculous that I would want to have sex every day, and she just has no sex drive. She seems to have no drive to do anything with me. Claire is very stressed about money. I am not. I have made every effort to come together to work out our finances, think about how we will make things work without causing stress for either of us. When Claire is stressed, I am stressed, because she takes it out on the relationship. I have suggested that we make a budget, several times. Claire once expressed that she would like to do this. Yet she’s made no effort or attempt to get together and do it. I’m paying the rent and utilities, because she says she has no extra money. I am okay with this, because I make a lot more than her. She doesn’t buy anything for herself, and only spends money on James. I strongly doubt that Claire is cheating on me, with Tim or anyone else. Tim has been upset about our relationship, but she says “what can he do?” She shows me their text message interactions from time to time on her own accord, and I have quite a bit of evidence show that she isn’t cheating on me. I trust that what she tells me is the truth. I don’t question her or accuse her of anything. I just think her sex drive is genuinely low due to the pregnancy. She’s now 20 months pregnant. We attend the OB/GYN appointments together. There are flashes of love from her end, but they’re inconsistent. She still says that she loves me and wants to be with me. I know she would prefer to be at her mom’s. I know she would never break up with me, but she doesn’t take my feelings seriously. We don’t argue much, but it often feels like a chore just to get through the evenings together. I am really lost. If it wasn’t for the pregnancy, we would break up. But I’ve never been in this situation before. It’s hard to think objectively in my shoes because she’s carrying my baby and I still love her. Thanks for reading this extra-long post. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. **tl;dr**: 10-month relationship with girl who has another child. She's 4 months pregnant with my son. Attached to her mom. Doesn't seem to want to be with me, but says she does. Doesn't take the initiative on anything. What should I do?
Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Google Narcissism and ask yourself if thats what you want to live with forever. 1
Author titleist Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Google Narcissism and ask yourself if thats what you want to live with forever. How am I narcissistic? I put myself second in this relationship, especially with the pregnancy, and try my absolute hardest to be there for her. The points about going out and sex were just to show her responses to things. I do things for her every day and spend every night with her. I think of her first. I buy things for her that I know she'd like all the time because I know she's tight on money. She doesn't show any appreciation or caring about the things I do for her. I don't ask for much. Let me also clarify, I don't try to have sex with her every day. I don't try more than once or twice a week because her drive is low. She just KNOWS my sex drive is high and I wouldn't mind doing it every day. But I am initiating less and less because I know she isn't into it right now. Edited September 28, 2015 by titleist More info
fitnessfan365 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 I have known my now-fianceé, Claire, for 12 years. I am 29, she is 28. We met each other through a mutual friend and dated for a couple of weeks in 2007, but didn’t continue because I was moving away to school. If you met her in 2007 and it's 2015, how is that 12 years? She’s now 20 months pregnant. Pregnancy lasts nine months. Not 20 plus..LOL She says, “well, we live together and see each other every day, why do we need to spend more time together?” She does kind of have a point. I mean once you're engaged and living together, the courting process dies down a bit. I mean would it be nice if she suggested something to do every once and awhile? Sure. But you're living together and see her every single day. So it's not like you're never spending time w/her. Claire’s sex drive is basically zero now. We have sex about twice a week, and she does it whenever I try, but just doesn’t seem to want it. It feels like I have to force her to. I asked her if she thinks her lack of sex drive is due to the pregnancy. She said she thinks it might be. However, I do need more affection than she seems comfortable with. She doesn’t want to give me any at all. We have talked about these things, and she says that it seems ridiculous that I would want to have sex every day, and she just has no sex drive. She seems to have no drive to do anything with me. Twice a week isn't that bad. Especially considering that she's pregnant. But when a woman is pregnant, continues to get larger, has less energy, is tired all the time, etc her drive in general will go down a lot. I'm guessing this is also why she feels less affectionate and wants to keep more of a distance. You just have to try and not take it personally. 1
ExpatInItaly Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 How am I narcissistic? I put myself second in this relationship, especially with the pregnancy, and try my absolute hardest to be there for her. The points about going out and sex were just to show her responses to things. I do things for her every day and spend every night with her. I think of her first. I buy things for her that I know she'd like all the time because I know she's tight on money. She doesn't show any appreciation or caring about the things I do for her. I don't ask for much. Let me also clarify, I don't try to have sex with her every day. I don't try more than once or twice a week because her drive is low. She just KNOWS my sex drive is high and I wouldn't mind doing it every day. But I am initiating less and less because I know she isn't into it right now. I'm fairly certain that poster wasn't talking about you, but your fiancee. Since you're going to have a child together, you will be in each others' lives to some extent forever. Can you seek couples' counseling? She just doesn't sound like she's in love anymore, but her hormones are also likely all over the place right now. 2
Author titleist Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 If you met her in 2007 and it's 2015, how is that 12 years? Pregnancy lasts nine months. Not 20 plus..LOL She does kind of have a point. I mean once you're engaged and living together, the courting process dies down a bit. I mean would it be nice if she suggested something to do every once and awhile? Sure. But you're living together and see her every single day. So it's not like you're never spending time w/her. Twice a week isn't that bad. Especially considering that she's pregnant. But when a woman is pregnant, continues to get larger, has less energy, is tired all the time, etc her drive in general will go down a lot. I'm guessing this is also why she feels less affectionate and wants to keep more of a distance. You just have to try and not take it personally. You have some good points. Thanks for your helpful input. I meant 20 weeks, not 20 months. Sure, I absolutely don't expect to go out all the time and have dates every weekend. But she suggests absolutely nothing to do together, ever. If I suggest something, she will do it, and seem to have fun. Maybe this is just her personality. I chalk it up to the hormones and don't really see this as a huge deal. We don't see that much of each other during the weeknights. I have a demanding job and play in a lot of golf tournaments, so that cuts out a lot of time right there. Between work and golf and gym and other things, we might see each other for a hour or two in the evenings before bed, and more during the weekends, doing routine things. That's why I think it would be nice to spend some quality time together once in a while.
Author titleist Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 Twice a week isn't that bad. Especially considering that she's pregnant. But when a woman is pregnant, continues to get larger, has less energy, is tired all the time, etc her drive in general will go down a lot. I'm guessing this is also why she feels less affectionate and wants to keep more of a distance. You just have to try and not take it personally. That does seem to describe her exactly. No energy, wants to keep a distance, no affection, just generally fatigued. It's new to me because I've never been with someone who is pregnant. It's just hard to tell if her behavior is due to the pregnancy or if this is how she'll always be. I guess time will tell.
Author titleist Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 I'm fairly certain that poster wasn't talking about you, but your fiancee. Since you're going to have a child together, you will be in each others' lives to some extent forever. Can you seek couples' counseling? She just doesn't sound like she's in love anymore, but her hormones are also likely all over the place right now. I think couples' counseling would be a great idea if things continue like this. I agree that she doesn't seem in love anymore. But she does express it in her own way, just a different way than she used to. How does Claire come across as a narcissist?
Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 How am I narcissistic? I put myself second in this relationship, especially with the pregnancy, and try my absolute hardest to be there for her. The points about going out and sex were just to show her responses to things. I do things for her every day and spend every night with her. I think of her first. I buy things for her that I know she'd like all the time because I know she's tight on money. She doesn't show any appreciation or caring about the things I do for her. I don't ask for much. Let me also clarify, I don't try to have sex with her every day. I don't try more than once or twice a week because her drive is low. She just KNOWS my sex drive is high and I wouldn't mind doing it every day. But I am initiating less and less because I know she isn't into it right now. Was speaking of her, not you.
Author titleist Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 If you met her in 2007 and it's 2015, how is that 12 years? We met in 2003, but didn't really talk or date until 2007.
StocksnBlondes Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) She works ...has a bundle of energy 2 yr old and is pregnant ...that's a lot on a plate. She sounds like she's a very hands on mom but doesn't create balance ...not sure if it's narcissism but possibly just not aware of her patterns and how unhealthy they are. As a mom to 2 kids that are 2 years apart ...I was done nursing at a year because I needed a life ...one of the kids would frequently crawl in bed with us but that was middle of the night ...not so bad and kinda cute ...it's good and healthy to have boundaries. If Claire doesn't have healthy parenting boundaries now it's unlikely she'll change. Is this how you want your life? Also ...if Tim doesn't have a job now and still lives with his parents it sounds like she likes that kind of lackadaisical partner and lifestyle ...where it's like whatever ... Doesn't sound like you are a good fit as you seem to have different values. I'm wondering ...beyond physical and initial relational chemistry what you guys see in each other. Seems you would be a better fit for a partner who's more proactive /progressive. Sorry to say it but Claire sounds like a leftover from the hippie generation. All the red flags are there for you and your brain is trying to rationalize the reality of the person you're with ...with the irrational of a lot of physical attraction you have for her. As you said yourself ...you would probably not be together if it weren't for the pregnancy. If Claire isn't interested in growing as a person your frustrations will continue to grow. My suggestion ...stop banging your head against the wall and really realize who this person is. To see if there's any movement in a positive proactive direction ...go for a "trial close" of "hey Claire let's have dinner out just you and I to go over the budget we discussed ...does Friday or Saturday work?" Go slow with all the things on your list as she may get overwhelmed easily with all she has on her plate ...if she's amenable it's a win win. If she's not it might be time to go for plan B ...going your separate ways while still being part of your child's life. You sound like a solid caring guy. Hope it works out. Edited September 28, 2015 by StocksnBlondes 1
Author titleist Posted September 30, 2015 Author Posted September 30, 2015 StocksnBlondes, thank you for that awesome insightful post. I think your interpretation and advice is spot on. She is unlikely to change. I had another long conversation with her and she truly believes her lack of affection and distant behavior is because of her hormones, and she feels like she truly loves me and wants to stay together. That doesn't begin to address the other issues that you mentioned though, and as it feels like we're walking on thin ice to begin with, I think it's best to stick it out for the time being. At least until we have our son. If things don't work out after than, it's not the end of the world. I can still be the best father I can be. I will take it slow as you suggested, and possibly pursue couples' counseling.
regine_phalange Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 You have to force her to have sex? That hit me as very wrong, I hope it was just a figure of speech. If I were you I'd ask my fiancee if she was happy. Asking her questions and listening what she has to say, encourage her to say the truth. If she admits to be happier away from you then let her be away from you. If she prefers to stay with her mum encourage her to do so. If she wants to stay with you but wants to go easy on the sex let her do that. If everything's okay but she's in a bad place hormonally then let her be. If you aren't happy together then don't push each other.
Author titleist Posted September 30, 2015 Author Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) You have to force her to have sex? That hit me as very wrong, I hope it was just a figure of speech. If I were you I'd ask my fiancee if she was happy. Asking her questions and listening what she has to say, encourage her to say the truth. If she admits to be happier away from you then let her be away from you. If she prefers to stay with her mum encourage her to do so. If she wants to stay with you but wants to go easy on the sex let her do that. If everything's okay but she's in a bad place hormonally then let her be. If you aren't happy together then don't push each other. It was a figure of speech. I'm not actually "forcing" her. It feels like I have to force her because she isn't really into it when we start having sex. When I initiate, she goes along with it, but it just doesn't really seem like she wants to. I talked to her about this yesterday, and she says her body just feels different and she doesn't feel sexual or affectionate right now. I told her I understood and she shouldn't feel like she has to do it just to make me happy. I appreciate your other advice, and take it to heart. No one is happy when they feel pressured to do anything. I just want to make things easier for us, not harder. Edited September 30, 2015 by titleist Word change
xcupid Posted September 30, 2015 Posted September 30, 2015 Seems to me the question is: Is it the hormones or is it incompatibility?
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