Author st8toftheheart Posted May 19, 2005 Author Posted May 19, 2005 Originally posted by prisoner you must be very patient. and determined. and insightful. are you tryinmg to never miss again? Good point. Yes, maybe I am trying not to miss again. Been burned a few times, had a few failed relationships. But I guess what gets me through it is when its all said an done, my principles and beliefs are still in tact.
prisoner Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 now we are getting some place? do you want to be right or do you want to be loved? do you want to be await the ideal or love someone 'in spite of' things? what have you lost? is it unattainable? irretrievable? did you always feel this way, then compromise and have to retain your beliefs? did you risk too much and get hurt and now you feel as though the control will comfort you more than anything else? it hurts to lose, i know. just make sure it does not stop you from loving again.
prisoner Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 failed relationships? how 'failed'? you had them and then they ended? was your expectation that they would last forever? was there anything worth having about them? i hope so.
Author st8toftheheart Posted May 19, 2005 Author Posted May 19, 2005 Originally posted by prisoner do you want to be right or do you want to be loved? do you want to be await the ideal or love someone 'in spite of' things? I am neither right nor wrong. Everyone wants to be loved, its in our nature. In a way yes. Ideal for me wuld be a person who shares the same basic principles as me, and then work from there. In you mean in spite of things, if I can love someone in spite the fact they do not share the same core beliefs as I do, then no. To be fair I question even now if I know what love is. what have you lost? is it unattainable? irretrievable? did you always feel this way, then compromise and have to retain your beliefs? At one point I lost my self respect for not following what I believe in. Especially after I was proven that I should have listening to myself to begin with. I think I would be in a much better place than I was. Is it unattainable? No, I have been able to attain what I lost, by keeping true to myself. did you risk too much and get hurt and now you feel as though the control will comfort you more than anything else? Yes I risked alot, and got burned for it. The control I think I have is an illusion and I know it, but it comforts me like a warm blanket. I said long ago when I was pondering the consequences of my leaving my failed marriage that I must be prapared that I may never find someone again. Not that I wish it, but to be prepared for it. So now I know at the end of the day I am content on what happens in my life, because its based on my terms. So I am may love again, if I manage to understand what that is, and that I won't have to unnecssarily comprise myself to achive it.
Author st8toftheheart Posted May 19, 2005 Author Posted May 19, 2005 Originally posted by prisoner failed relationships? how 'failed'? you had them and then they ended? was your expectation that they would last forever? was there anything worth having about them? By failed I mean - Toyed with - Cheated on - Divorced - Lied to and deceived Not everything is for ever. That's a tough question. Was anything worth having about them? I guess the main thing is companionship.
XNemesisX Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 I'm pretty much with Blind Otter on this topic. I don't think it's good to overthink this. And personally, again this is just ME personally, I can't have a relationship without having sex soon with the person prior to ever having a relationship. I know it sounds messed up, but it just seems like if I don't have sex with someone fairly soon then I will just see that person as a friend from that point forward and can't even think of being a girlfriend to that person. Maybe I am just messed up though.... Also, I don't think sex necessarily bonds people. Like Blind Otter said, sex is sex is sex. There are people I have slept with that I don't even think about or care about or feel any sort of bond with.
blind_otter Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 heh. Well, I don't want to get all attached to someone just to discover that they suck in bed.
JS17 Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 it's kind of funny how everyone has such differing opinions. personally, i don't have sex too early because i don't want to get attached just to find out that they suck in a relationship. i guess it's just what's important to you. i can be with someone who sucks in bed if they're great in every other way. i've been with people who were great in the sack that made terrible boyfriends, and i got attached to them because i slept with them. kind of like blind otter said, we're all different. it's just what's right for you.
RecordProducer Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 1. A condom; 2. Chemistry; 3. A good feeling that it will be more than sex.
lindya Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 Obvious things like sexual attraction, a couple of glasses of wine. Also, being comfortable with the person so that if anything goes wrong during the initial coupling, you can both giggle the embarrassment away (not to the extent that either of you is overcome by hilarity though) and get on with the business of putting it right.
Author st8toftheheart Posted May 20, 2005 Author Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by blind_otter heh. Well, I don't want to get all attached to someone just to discover that they suck in bed. So does that make or break a relationship for you? I mean if he's fantastic in every other way, there would be no effort or attempt to see if that could imrpove? I dunno, its very confusing to me.
Author st8toftheheart Posted May 20, 2005 Author Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by XNemesisX Also, I don't think sex necessarily bonds people. Like Blind Otter said, sex is sex is sex. There are people I have slept with that I don't even think about or care about or feel any sort of bond with. And you're certainly not aone in that thought. Nor do I argue against it, because it is your choice. I guess somewhere down the line I put a bigger value on sex than maybe there should be, but right right I'm comfortable with it. But again I asked the question just to gauge what people think, and its been quite informative. However, it hasn' swayed me any. Not that I was trying to, but its always good to eveluate what one beliefs are. I broke up with my gf over this. She wasn't wrong either, it just didn't align with my views.
latida Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by RecordProducer 1. A condom; 2. Chemistry; 3. A good feeling that it will be more than sex. My thoughts exactly. Other than that, I don't know...depends. My current boyfriend got a hold of me as I was getting over my previous relationship. I was much more careful and it took some time to trust. 4. Trust I guess I mean some trust that what you want from the relationship the other also wants. If you want just sex, that they do too. If you want a relationship that they do too, etc. That you are on the same page, that you feel the same for each other
moimeme Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 i don't have sex too early because i don't want to get attached just to find out that they suck in a relationship Ditto that. Anyway, sex is a learned act. People who aren't good can learn how to be so. It's not like musical ability or art - you don't have to be born talented to become talented. I find it very odd that people seem to think that ability in bed is innate.
XNemesisX Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 Then how would you explain the guy I was with who was a *virgin* being better in bed than some of the guys I've slept with who have slept with many many women?
XNemesisX Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by st8toftheheart I broke up with my gf over this. She wasn't wrong either, it just didn't align with my views. Wow! That's pretty terrible you would break up with someone over this. Was she cheating on you? Did you think she would if her views were too liberal? Surely there must have been other reasons involved besides her thinking too casually about sex. Or were you just very jealous over this? Have you always been this way? I think you said earlier there was one time where you had casual sex and regretted it. Now, here is the big question. Are you a serial monogamous? One of my friends is this way, she doesn't believe in casual sex at all so she will just jump from one relationship to the next. So long as she could say the guy was her "boyfriend" at the time then all was well. But her numbers got up there.....
Author st8toftheheart Posted May 20, 2005 Author Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by XNemesisX Then how would you explain the guy I was with who was a *virgin* being better in bed than some of the guys I've slept with who have slept with many many women? Porn, and a good learner. Not to make light of the situation, but my last GF thought I was amazing in bed. First man to make her orgasm she said. Ok, doubts of that statement aside, I have very little experience, and I mean little. I owe it all from the caring and loving approach and ensure that I fulfill her needs at the same time I fulfill mine. I can only so that when I have built a bond with them. Porn helps as a visual aid of course.
Author st8toftheheart Posted May 20, 2005 Author Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme Ditto that. Anyway, sex is a learned act. People who aren't good can learn how to be so. It's not like musical ability or art - you don't have to be born talented to become talented. I find it very odd that people seem to think that ability in bed is innate. Thanks moi. I agree. So when women tell me that I am better in better, which doesn't happen very often, that just tells be that maybe they weren't ready to get into bed with that person, or the feelings for that person just wasn't there. So when they say he just wasn't able to get me off, I have a real hard time understanding that. I don't fault them for it, but it just enforces some of the approaches I take.
Author st8toftheheart Posted May 20, 2005 Author Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by XNemesisX Wow! That's pretty terrible you would break up with someone over this. Was she cheating on you? Did you think she would if her views were too liberal? Surely there must have been other reasons involved besides her thinking too casually about sex. Or were you just very jealous over this? Yes and she took it very hard even though I tried to tell her I didn't think she was a slut, and its just that her views on the matter didn't align with mine. But yes, I broke up with her solely for this fact and no she never cheated on me. But I did think her views were too liberal, and because I thought they were liberal they would leave for further conflict down the road. Of course this liberal attitude manifested itself in other thing she did/does. So that only reinforced my thoughts on the matter. I know I know. I broke up based on a lot of what ifs. But when such a thing happens so early on, its better to get out at the beginning than when deep into it. I'm getting close to my 40s, been married once and divorced once. I got married for the wrong reasons. So now, I'm a little more causcious where and with who I spend my time with and give myself too. Have you always been this way? I think you said earlier there was one time where you had casual sex and regretted it. Now, here is the big question. Are you a serial monogamous? One of my friends is this way, she doesn't believe in casual sex at all so she will just jump from one relationship to the next. So long as she could say the guy was her "boyfriend" at the time then all was well. But her numbers got up there..... Yes I have always been this way. And to clarify, I never had casual sex, I just meant that I didn't wait the 3 month period or achieve the other criteria I have before sleeping with someone. I regret not waiting cause I found out that comepletely misjudged this person, and conflicts began. So I regret it because I felt used as well as I felt I used her. I'm not sure I can be categorised like that. Maybe my last ex was like that. All she needed was the the term boyfriend and exclusivity and she was off to the races. I try and build a relationship. The 3 to 4 month period could pass where I don't see this relationship going anywhere and end it, with no sex involved. I don't need the relationship to have sex. I have sex when its right for the relationship, or should I say right for me in the relationship. Does that make sense?
blind_otter Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by st8toftheheart So does that make or break a relationship for you? I mean if he's fantastic in every other way, there would be no effort or attempt to see if that could imrpove? I dunno, its very confusing to me. I've been in relationships with guys who were awful in bed and stayed that way. It wasn't about "learning" - it was the fact that their selfishness in bed was a reflection of their lack of respect or consideration for me. I tried to make the effort but he would get defensive and pissed off and disrespected me for trying to help him understand how to pleasure me. I woudn't base an entire relationship on good sex, but for me, it is an essential part of a satisfying relationship - it's something that's important to ME. like is said, everyone is DIFFERENT - so what you find important, is what YOU find important. I am not you, therefore I value different things. And that's not only OK - it's good, because it contributes to the rich diversity of opinions that is so beautiful.
Author st8toftheheart Posted May 20, 2005 Author Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by blind_otter I've been in relationships with guys who were awful in bed and stayed that way. It wasn't about "learning" - it was the fact that their selfishness in bed was a reflection of their lack of respect or consideration for me. I tried to make the effort but he would get defensive and pissed off and disrespected me for trying to help him understand how to pleasure me. Yes, but you hinted on something here. If he was selfish in bed, was he also selfish in the relationship? If he was could that not have been seen before sleeping together? Maybe maybe not, and I guess that's part of my reasoning for trying to find out these things before I sleep with them. My ex was completely accomidating in the bedroom, almost anything went, but you know what, she was like that outside the bedroom too. I wasn't looking for that in a relationship. So had I waited before sleeping with her, to see that, then I would have felt better about the outcome. Cause now it just looks like I used her for sex, and as she said, since it seems she had no other qualities that I wanted. That's a pretty tough statement to bare. I woudn't base an entire relationship on good sex, but for me, it is an essential part of a satisfying relationship - it's something that's important to ME. like is said, everyone is DIFFERENT - so what you find important, is what YOU find important. I am not you, therefore I value different things. And that's not only OK - it's good, because it contributes to the rich diversity of opinions that is so beautiful. No arguement there. Please don't get me wrong, I am not telling anyone that what I tink what they are doing is wrong. i'm just expressing why I feel the way I feel.
blind_otter Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by st8toftheheart Yes, but you hinted on something here. If he was selfish in bed, was he also selfish in the relationship? If he was could that not have been seen before sleeping together? Maybe maybe not, and I guess that's part of my reasoning for trying to find out these things before I sleep with them. No arguement there. Please don't get me wrong, I am not telling anyone that what I tink what they are doing is wrong. i'm just expressing why I feel the way I feel. But your first paragraph sure sounds like you are trying to convince me to think the way you are...."Well, couldn't you have found that out before you slept with them?" Yeah, I could have. And I would have gotten attached before then by staying around for 3 months. And I am a woman who was in a DV (domestic violence) relationship, so I tend to stay with men who may be abusive because I just feel like I should keep trying after all the time I invested. It's a personal thing. I can sleep with someone, because of my sexual history (I am a rape survivor), and not become emotionally attached. I realize this isn't necessarily true for everyone. I had to learn to divorce my emotions from my sexuality because of the severity of the sexual trauma I experienced. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to have sex at all, I am quite sure. So, for me, a deeper connection happens after MONTHS of being with someone. I can fall "head over heels" in love with someone - but that deeper, enduring companionate love I seek take a lot of time and trust. I'm not willing to inveset that much time into someone who could be bad in bed. And that's just me - bad sex is really BAD for me and brings back really BAD memories. So I have to try to avoid it at all costs and tend to not want to work on it with a guy because I lack the emotional capacity to handle the process it takes to teach him to be good. His sexuality is HIS responsibility.
moimeme Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 Then how would you explain the guy I was with who was a *virgin* being better in bed than some of the guys I've slept with who have slept with many many women? Porn, and a good learner. Exactly. I've gotten great reviews from day 1 and that has everything to do with me having determined that any guy smart enough to pick me would be amply rewarded. So I have done a heap o' reading - not just porn LOL - and learned lots which I have used to good advantage. My bedpost has relatively few notches on it but that doesn't mean lack of talent - or enthusiasm I can sleep with someone, because of my sexual history (I am a rape survivor), and not become emotionally attached. I realize this isn't necessarily true for everyone. Well then count yourself lucky that you're immune to the persuasion of oxytocin. So, for me, a deeper connection happens after MONTHS of being with someone. I can fall "head over heels" in love with someone - but that deeper, enduring companionate love I seek take a lot of time and trust. That's true for most folks. BTW, just because someone's great in bed doesn't mean he'll be a great match either. Take that from personal experience.
Author st8toftheheart Posted May 20, 2005 Author Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by blind_otter But your first paragraph sure sounds like you are trying to convince me to think the way you are...."Well, couldn't you have found that out before you slept with them?" Sorry. It wasn't meant to be directed as a question to you, but as an arguement I would use on myself to reinforce why I believe the way I handle things is right for me. If I made you feel like you had to defend that, then my apologizes. As I said, I cannot judge or fault someone on these type of decisions or think badly of them. Its their lives and for the most part it only affects themselves. If they are content with who they are, then alls well. But I think its ok for me to want someone, that's part of my life, to share the same views in certain areas, this being one of them. Agreed?
blind_otter Posted May 20, 2005 Posted May 20, 2005 Originally posted by st8toftheheart But I think its ok for me to want someone, that's part of my life, to share the same views in certain areas, this being one of them. Agreed? Yeah, agreed.
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