she won't return the ring or other things….

[Guyouthere]

hmmmm, let's see if i were in your ex's shoes, which I don't think I would keep the ring if I were in state of mind to do the "right" thing. Otherwise there are two reasons I would hang onto it:

1. Absolutely as leverage. Could be from a negative point of view. Knowing it bothers you and it's the last thing that ties us together and if you were bugging me to get it back, I might rebel on you by not jumping to that. Or truth is YOU could be using it as leverage in order to see me or hurt me in demanding it back (although legally and morally, eventually--it's your right to have it back), and I could intending to give it back just not ready to see you or interact with you.

2. This is probably the most likely reason (for me) of why I wouldn't give it back right away: once i did, it would feel like the decision's final and that it really is over. Like over, over. So sentimentally I might hang onto as long as I can until the decision was clear in my head---not matter what words I say to you (ie this is over, we're done), it doesn't mean that's exactly what's in my heart.

 

Just my guesses

 

I never sensed her as the spiteful type. I honestly don't feel it is about "me getting at her, or her at me". We just never had that type of childish interaction.

I haven't been pushing her, she knows full well the right thing to do….

I'm leaning towards number 2 myself. That is what my gut is telling me. Whether or not that is accurate, time will tell.

 

Right now I know she is very hurt too.

 

Thats another reason why I'm thinking she wants time to rethink it all. Overall she knows how committed I can be, and wants to make sure she doesn't throw me away forever.

[Guyouthere]

and I could intending to give it back just not ready to see you or interact with you.

 

<---she is in another country, so there wouldn't be any actual interaction.

 

if she decided to return it, it would occur via postal mail, which she has the capability of doing if she wanted to.

 

So far nothing. So far she still wants it (for whatever reason).

[Versacehottie]

I never sensed her as the spiteful type. I honestly don't feel it is about "me getting at her, or her at me". We just never had that type of childish interaction.

I haven't been pushing her, she knows full well the right thing to do….

I'm leaning towards number 2 myself. That is what my gut is telling me. Whether or not that is accurate, time will tell.

 

Right now I know she is very hurt too.

 

Thats another reason why I'm thinking she wants time to rethink it all. Overall she knows how committed I can be, and wants to make sure she doesn't throw me away forever.

 

well yes no. 2 is exactly why I would be holding onto the ring still.

[Guyouthere]

You have to remember, this woman does know my value, and it is not just money or the ring,,,, she knows my personality, and has always been attracted to that, despite recent events..

 

There is no doubting that.

 

And while I did hurt her, we hurt each other.

 

So in a sense, we are "even", not that it means it is a game, because it isn't.

 

She is smart enough to know she would lose a good thing if she does decide to let me go for real and good.

 

I do know she isn't in her "right mind" at the moment.

 

I don't know for sure if she is actually seeing anyone,,, so I won't accuse.

 

I do feel she is mixed up, and has been for a while, and she did make comments prior that I was pushing her too much, which I know I did too.

 

So in reality, I don't know what will happen with this all, at least not yet.

 

Maybe she will never return it, maybe she will.

 

One thing for sure…. time will tell.

[Versacehottie]

and I could intending to give it back just not ready to see you or interact with you.

 

<---she is in another country, so there wouldn't be any actual interaction.

 

if she decided to return it, it would occur via postal mail, which she has the capability of doing if she wanted to.

 

So far nothing. So far she still wants it (for whatever reason).

 

Well when my friend broke up with her long-term bf, he "wanted" some stuff of his back that he carelessly left at their place which was at that point just her place. Really he was just using it as an excuse to get at her, continue to have contact with her, insinuate he'd moved on, the list went on and it mostly had to do with his bad behavior. I experienced all this second-hand with her. Saw the texts, heard the vm's. The truth is if he really wanted it back he could have taken it when he moved out or used the 3rd party liaison she set up--which was available to him many, many times during the period he asked and harassed her for the stuff. In the end, she was not really trying to withhold it from him but she didn't want to jump to it like he was demanding and he was very ugly about it. It was obvious he was using as leverage and the messages became entertaining in themselves, where then ignoring him or putting him off was a little way to hurt him back (his msgs were brutal and stupid).

 

In the end she was mostly rebelling. And he was leveraging. If it were really about the "stuff" there were many chances for him to get it back right away essentially. He didn't use those chances because they involved a 3rd party and not her. Are you sure you are handling the requesting of the ring back with honor? Do you trust that you eventually will get it back from her? If so, why do you care about it now? Do you want to get your money back from it? OR are YOU trying to get a definitive answer on the status of the relationship--and the ring has become the symbol of it all?

 

That said, I wouldn't put an engagement ring--even one where I didn't care about being engaged anymore into the mail. Just saying.

[Guyouthere]

Well when my friend broke up with her long-term bf, he "wanted" some stuff of his back that he carelessly left at their place which was at that point just her place. Really he was just using it as an excuse to get at her, continue to have contact with her, insinuate he'd moved on, the list went on and it mostly had to do with his bad behavior. I experienced all this second-hand with her. Saw the texts, heard the vm's. The truth is if he really wanted it back he could have taken it when he moved out or used the 3rd party liaison she set up--which was available to him many, many times during the period he asked and harassed her for the stuff. In the end, she was not really trying to withhold it from him but she didn't want to jump to it like he was demanding and he was very ugly about it. It was obvious he was using as leverage and the messages became entertaining in themselves, where then ignoring him or putting him off was a little way to hurt him back (his msgs were brutal and stupid).

 

In the end she was mostly rebelling. And he was leveraging. If it were really about the "stuff" there were many chances for him to get it back right away essentially. He didn't use those chances because they involved a 3rd party and not her. Are you sure you are handling the requesting of the ring back with honor? Do you trust that you eventually will get it back from her? If so, why do you care about it now? Do you want to get your money back from it? OR are YOU trying to get a definitive answer on the status of the relationship--and the ring has become the symbol of it all?

 

That said, I wouldn't put an engagement ring--even one where I didn't care about being engaged anymore into the mail. Just saying.

 

For me, this is about feeling what she is, trying to figure her out.. because she has been all over the place in the past…. she has been going through a lot,,,,, why I am not convinced she really wants it to be "final".

 

There is also hope on my side too, that she does finally get everything she has to get, in order, but there is no count this will be a very long time because of her issues (and some things too I need to work on for me, regardless of if we are together), and we both know that.

[lino]

If she isn't marrying you, she owes you the ring back. I'd be meeting with a solicitor.

 

She should be happy a ring was offered in the first place for no other reason than being a female.

 

 

Id take a normal one if they existed,

 

Evidently they don't. lol

 

 

They do exist, they just aren't common.

[Guyouthere]

I don't know what she is thinking right now. We are not communicating.

[Gaeta]

Some of that money was used for **** like piercings, and the worst part, she used some of it to go to a resort where she met a guy that she hid from me until I found her on her profile, which she quickly removed when she saw me online, but it was too late.

 

That's the woman you wish to have back in your life?

 

I read something on here once, don't remember from whom, but it had an impact on me. You can't turn s$hit into gold.

[Guyouthere]

That's the woman you wish to have back in your life?

 

I read something on here once, don't remember from whom, but it had an impact on me. You can't turn s$hit into gold.

 

I only put up with it because I knew it was a terrible time in her life, and I just wanted her to be happy, saw it making her happy, and so tolerated it for that reason.

 

Yes I was disappointed she spent some of it on that, but my goal was to let her be as happy as she could be at the time.

[Gaeta]

I only put up with it because I knew it was a terrible time in her life, and I just wanted her to be happy, saw it making her happy, and so tolerated it for that reason.

 

Yes I was disappointed she spent some of it on that, but my goal was to let her be as happy as she could be at the time.

 

Guyouthere: Being irresponsible with money is one thing. Being on dating sites and hiding man from her FIANCÉ is another. She had no respect for you.

 

You know what I do when I go through a terrible time? I eat ice-cream and I spend my night watching old dvds of Space 1999. I don't go chasing men and hiding them from my boyfriend.

 

If you get back with her, each time you 2 go through a tough patch you will wonder if she's on a dating site somewhere getting it on with another man. C'mon !!

 

This is a learning experience for you. Please see the light! Otherwise in 5 years you'll be married to a cheating wife with 3 pre-school kids keeping you in a bad marriage.

[joseb]

I think you are deluding yourself if you think her keeping the ring is in any way an indication that she is still considering your proposal.

[Guyouthere]

Guyouthere: Being irresponsible with money is one thing. Being on dating sites and hiding man from her FIANCÉ is another. She had no respect for you.

 

You know what I do when I go through a terrible time? I eat ice-cream and I spend my night watching old dvds of Space 1999. I don't go chasing men and hiding them from my boyfriend.

 

If you get back with her, each time you 2 go through a tough patch you will wonder if she's on a dating site somewhere getting it on with another man. C'mon !!

 

This is a learning experience for you. Please see the light! Otherwise in 5 years you'll be married to a cheating wife with 3 pre-school kids keeping you in a bad marriage.

 

I have to be fair and say she wasn't on a dating site. What occurred was that she had a guy on her G+ page that she didn't want me to see, and to the effect of actually blocking him from my view while I was on my g+ page. It was too late, I had looked at his profile and realized that he was a guy she very likely met on a day trip to a beach resort, which by the way I payed for so she could have a nice day there, again, caring for her.

 

Unknown how serious, if any, they are, but my gut tells me that since this guy also looks a lot like her ex, there is more to it.

 

Her excuse was that he helped her with her resume. I'm asking why hide his profile, not mention whatsoever that she met him that day, or totally keep it secret from me if it was so innocent (as the claims).

 

Her next response was "how would I know if I didn't do it". Im assuming "how would she really know if she wanted me or not if she didn't test the water.

 

You see, I had told her some week or so later after she evidently met him, that I "wanted to date others", but what I now realize is that I was subconsciously picking up on what she had already done herself to me, without me even discovering it.

 

So yes, deception, and it turned into a big fight, where I told her "F-you". She said I hurt her, but she doesn't consider my feelings, only hers.

 

Overall I feel I had no choice.

 

I just feel I did the right thing other than getting too emotional, but that is an emotional issue for me (after all too, I did so much for her).

 

So either she is really mixed up, or she truly deceived me on purpose the entire time.

 

I now tend to think it was a mixture of both.

 

Her favorite line with me was that "I didn't understand her, and that none does".

[Gaeta]

How long have you dated this woman?

When did you propose?

How old are you 2 ?

[Guyouthere]

How long have you dated this woman?

When did you propose?

How old are you 2 ?

 

Began in March, she was just getting out of a very bad and intense relationship, also held prisoner in her home.

 

I befriended her, we got very close, and I helped her escape (included police assistance and international government agencies).

 

I gave her a new life…for real. She most likely would have actually died there had I not done what I did for her.

 

I am older than she is, but she is 24, 25 soon.

 

We had plans of getting married, and it came as close as getting her here to the USA (as close as her attempting to get on a plane that she had a ticket for).

 

Had she arrived, we would have been married (I don't see anything that would have stopped that then).

 

When she didn't come, I decided to go there, which I did.

 

We have been in touch since then, except for the events described above.

 

Overall I feel she is doing her own thing, could not see or appreciate all I did for her, at least not now, could be just sorting out her feelings, or maybe she is really done. Maybe she doesn't even know right now.

[Gaeta]

Began in March, she was just getting out of a very bad and intense relationship, also held prisoner in her home.

 

I befriended her, we got very close, and I helped her escape (included police assistance and international government agencies).

 

I gave her a new life…for real. She most likely would have actually died there had I not done what I did for her.

 

I am older than she is, but she is 24, 25 soon.

 

We had plans of getting married, and it came as close as getting her here to the USA (as close as her attempting to get on a plane that she had a ticket for).

 

Had she arrived, we would have been married (I don't see anything that would have stopped that then).

 

When she didn't come, I decided to go there, which I did.

 

We have been in touch since then, except for the events described above.

 

Overall I feel she is doing her own thing, could not see or appreciate all I did for her, at least not now, could be just sorting out her feelings, or maybe she is really done. Maybe she doesn't even know right now.

 

I am really sorry but it's over. Yes you saved her and it's honorable but she doesn't feel the way you do. At first she may have thought she was in love with you because you were there for her and freed her, but after the dust fell down she is seeing she is not in love.

 

Now that she is free she needs to experience everything she has missed in life. That includes going out, meeting men, having sex, experimenting, dating, etc. She is not relationship material at this time and it could be YEARS down the road when she feels ready to settle with 1 man. When she is ready I am afraid it won't be with you.

 

Now YOU. You were ready to marry a woman you had never met and had been in contact with for 6 MONTHS. She is a stranger. You didn't fall in love with her, you fell in love with love. You really need to examine why you went through such length with someone you barely knew, why you accepted her poor treatment, why you gave her money, and now why you are hoping for such a mediocre woman to come back in your life.

 

Do you realize if you had married her you would have been responsible for her for a few years. Responsible for her medical bills, credit card bills, any crime she may have committed? Most likely she would have gotten in the US, marry you and BAIL on you, leaving you behind picking up her mess for the next 3-5 years.

 

I have a friend who did what you were about to do. It cost her 15K to get this man in Canada. Once he was here he stayed 3 weeks with her and he disappeared. Left her in debt and responsible for him for the next 5 years.

 

You really really look into the gravity of what you were about to do.

[Guyouthere]

I am really sorry but it's over. Yes you saved her and it's honorable but she doesn't feel the way you do. At first she may have thought she was in love with you because you were there for her and freed her, but after the dust fell down she is seeing she is not in love.

 

Now that she is free she needs to experience everything she has missed in life. That includes going out, meeting men, having sex, experimenting, dating, etc. She is not relationship material at this time and it could be YEARS down the road when she feels ready to settle with 1 man. When she is ready I am afraid it won't be with you.

 

Now YOU. You were ready to marry a woman you had never met and had been in contact with for 6 MONTHS. She is a stranger. You didn't fall in love with her, you fell in love with love. You really need to examine why you went through such length with someone you barely knew, why you accepted her poor treatment, why you gave her money, and now why you are hoping for such a mediocre woman to come back in your life.

 

Do you realize if you had married her you would have been responsible for her for a few years. Responsible for her medical bills, credit card bills, any crime she may have committed? Most likely she would have gotten in the US, marry you and BAIL on you, leaving you behind picking up her mess for the next 3-5 years.

 

I have a friend who did what you were about to do. It cost her 15K to get this man in Canada. Once he was here he stayed 3 weeks with her and he disappeared. Left her in debt and responsible for him for the next 5 years.

 

You really really look into the gravity of what you were about to do.

 

I have to agree with all said here. I still don't know if she even truly knows what she feels, other than she does want to go out and live life.

 

I don't think there is any question she wants to and will go out and live life, and she should. You are correct in that she is not relationship material, maybe never will be even. That will be up to her and God.

 

She won't be able to forget me so easily. She will tell her story, and each time, my memory will resurface.

 

What, if anything, she realizes later on,…. that ail dictate the future.

 

For now I realize I was spared hell.

 

On the other hand, she had no real benefit for coming here to the USA. She has more where she is, and do have to ask, if she really didn't have feelings, why bother planning to bring me there?

[Guyouthere]

When she is ready I am afraid it won't be with you.

 

<-----why wouldn't she?

 

I would expect she go through it all as said above,,, but what would make you so sure that after her healing time, she wouldn't want to return at some future point??

[katiegrl]

I am really sorry but it's over. Yes you saved her and it's honorable but she doesn't feel the way you do. At first she may have thought she was in love with you because you were there for her and freed her, but after the dust fell down she is seeing she is not in love.

 

Now that she is free she needs to experience everything she has missed in life. That includes going out, meeting men, having sex, experimenting, dating, etc. She is not relationship material at this time and it could be YEARS down the road when she feels ready to settle with 1 man. When she is ready I am afraid it won't be with you.

 

Now YOU. You were ready to marry a woman you had never met and had been in contact with for 6 MONTHS. She is a stranger. You didn't fall in love with her, you fell in love with love. You really need to examine why you went through such length with someone you barely knew, why you accepted her poor treatment, why you gave her money, and now why you are hoping for such a mediocre woman to come back in your life.

 

Do you realize if you had married her you would have been responsible for her for a few years. Responsible for her medical bills, credit card bills, any crime she may have committed? Most likely she would have gotten in the US, marry you and BAIL on you, leaving you behind picking up her mess for the next 3-5 years.

 

I have a friend who did what you were about to do. It cost her 15K to get this man in Canada. Once he was here he stayed 3 weeks with her and he disappeared. Left her in debt and responsible for him for the next 5 years.

 

You really really look into the gravity of what you were about to do.

 

Just caught up with this thread.

 

guyouthere ..... clearly you are in major denial.

 

What Gaeta posted above is 100% right on and you need to listen to it ...and stop acting like such a pansy. (sorry but you are).

 

This woman used you and is DONE. She is keeping the ring as it has dollar value, NOT because she is *confused* and may want to marry you some day. YOU are the *crazy* one if you believe that. As for her, she's just a user ....at least as it pertains to you and your *relationship*.

 

Please wake up and extricate yourself from this alternative reality you are living in.

 

It's over, she is done. Instead if spending all this energy trying to figure *her* out, focus on figuring *yourself* out, and why you allowed yourself to fall victim to this toxic charade.

 

Forget her, forget the ring, and just move the hell on.

Edited September 26, 2015 by katiegrl

[Guyouthere]

Just caught up with this thread.

 

guyouthere ..... clearly you are in major denial.

 

What Gaeta posted above is 100% right on and you need to listen to it ...and stop acting like such a pansy. (sorry but you are).

 

This woman used you and is DONE. She is keeping the ring as it has dollar value, NOT because she is *confused* and may want to marry you some day. YOU are *crazy* one if you believe that.

 

Please wake up and extricate yourself from this alternative reality you are living in.

 

It's over, she is done. Instead if spending all this energy trying to figure *her* out, focus on figuring *yourself* out, and why you allowed yourself to fall victim to this toxic charade.

 

Forget her, forget the ring, and just move the hell on.

 

Well its a good day to bike ride and wash and wax the car, which I will do.

[katiegrl]

When she is ready I am afraid it won't be with you.

 

 

***<-----why wouldn't she?****

 

 

 

I would expect she go through it all as said above,,, but what would make you so sure that after her healing time, she wouldn't want to return at some future point??

 

Because it doesn't appear she has much respect for you, that's why.

 

There are many reasons why .....but for one, why would you give an engagement ring to a woman who flat out told you she *isn't ready* to marry you?

 

Translation: I don't want to marry you. Sorry but giving an engagement ring to a woman who does not want to marry you was just plain dumb.

 

I am going to be tough here, but that, among other things, is *pansy* behavior, and NO woman respects and falls in love with a pansy.

 

That's the risk with *savior* type men like yourself who believe their patience, understanding (and MONEY) will help (or save) a woman.

 

It won't. You are just setting yourself up to be used by a very dysfunctional and emotionally unhealthy woman.

 

Again I am very sorry for sounding harsh, but felt it needed to be said.

 

Wish you the best going forward.

[Guyouthere]

Because it doesn't appear she has much respect for you, that's why.

 

There are many reasons why .....but for one, why would you give an engagement ring to a woman who flat out told you she *isn't ready* to marry you?

 

Translation: I don't want to marry you. Sorry but giving an engagement ring to a woman who does not want to marry you was just plain dumb.

 

I am going to be tough here, but that, among other things, is *pansy* behavior, and NO woman respects and falls in love with a pansy.

 

That's the risk with *savior* type men like yourself who believe their patience, understanding (and MONEY) will help (or save) a woman.

 

It won't. You are just setting yourself up to be used by a very dysfunctional and emotionally unhealthy woman.

 

Again I am very sorry for sounding harsh, but felt it needed to be said.

 

Wish you the best going forward.

 

No, I didn't give it to her when she didn't want to get married. She was excited about it at first.. but in her mind, it brought up unresolved issues, she realized she wasn't ready for that type of commitment.

 

Yes she is dysfunctional, it is quite obvious.

 

Caring is my weakness, it is obvious.

 

Evidently things are a lot different now from when my parents dated.. people back then appreciated that type of thing back then.

[katiegrl]

No, I didn't give it to her when she didn't want to get married. She was excited about it at first.. but in her mind, it brought up unresolved issues, she realized she wasn't ready for that type of commitment.

 

Yes she is dysfunctional, it is quite obvious.

 

Caring is my weakness, it is obvious.

 

Evidently things are a lot different now from when my parents dated.. people back then appreciated that type of thing back then.

 

Lol, yeah lots of things were different back when our parents dated....

 

There was no internet being the biggest one.

 

Enjoy your bike ride.

 

hugs

[Guyouthere]

Yes, going out shopping too.

 

The internet is both bad and good.

 

I don't have family other than a 90 year old mom i take care of, and my ex wife took care of my "friends", and around here, there just isn't a good "dating pool", as most everyone I encounter is a party animal (even local singles groups are geared towards brew houses and that ****).

 

I am the old fashioned type. I don't drink do drugs, or any of that mess.

 

I own my own home, car, boat, and have a job, and I know what I am worth.

 

I never looked for this last girl, she just came about.

 

With all of this talk about how a good woman is out there, let her come now, because truly I am worth it and have a lot to offer, and not just with the house, etc.

 

Like I said, I am a treasure hunter and know how this all works. Dating is all about picking through the trash, just as it is done out in ocean when I dive.

 

And just like that, the gold is out there, and I do find it.

[katiegrl]

Yes, going out shopping too.

 

The internet is both bad and good.

 

I don't have family other than a 90 year old mom i take care of, and my ex wife took care of my "friends", and around here, there just isn't a good "dating pool", as most everyone I encounter is a party animal (even local singles groups are geared towards brew houses and that ****).

 

I am the old fashioned type. I don't drink do drugs, or any of that mess.

 

I own my own home, car, boat, and have a job, and I know what I am worth.

 

I never looked for this last girl, she just came about.

 

With all of this talk about how a good woman is out there, let her come now, because truly I am worth it and have a lot to offer, and not just with the house, etc.

 

Like I said, I am a treasure hunter and know how this all works.

 

 

***Dating is all about picking through the trash, just as it is done out in ocean when I dive.

 

 

 

And just like that, the gold is out there, and I do find it.

 

Picking through the trash?? Wow.

 

I know you're upset, so being a woman (i.e. part of the *trash* you're picking through) ... I will try not to take offense to that....