For REFORMED or Ex-wayward spouses....

[autumnnight]

It is certainly hard to judge other couples from the outside looking in. You don't know the dynamics of the relationship simply by being an observer. So this statement is simply an opinion from an observer.

 

First....in our case...you would never know there had been infidelity. We told very few people. We are extremely loving and respectful of each other and always have been. We are very physically demonstrative toward each other. We rarely have a disagreement.

 

Even through all of the years of triggers....no one else knew.

 

I can't speak for other couples and this statement that most should divorce may be true....but my point is....in many cases...how would you even know?

 

Your case would be the exception. The way you speak of and to each other on this forum is a testament to that.

 

Based on the way many so-called recovered spouses speak about their FWS tells me that their recovery is not working well. You cannot possibly have a good marriage with a person who disgusts you.

[NewLeaf512]

I'd love to see that article. I find this hard to believe.

 

Hi

 

 

I cant pm you and I don't post links in case there is anything commercial.

[JohnAdams]

If you Google "After Ashley Madison, How to Cope With Infidelity" it should pop up, you may need to put Wall Street Journal Article in the search. It was in the September 7th edition.

[NewLeaf512]

It is certainly hard to judge other couples from the outside looking in. You don't know the dynamics of the relationship simply by being an observer. So this statement is simply an opinion from an observer.

 

First....in our case...you would never know there had been infidelity. We told very few people. We are extremely loving and respectful of each other and always have been. We are very physically demonstrative toward each other. We rarely have a disagreement.

 

Even through all of the years of triggers....no one else knew.

 

I can't speak for other couples and this statement that most should divorce may be true....but my point is....in many cases...how would you even know?

 

 

Mrs A you know I don't subscribe to your methodologies usually but again that is NOMB. You and Mr. A are role models for overcoming infidelity if that is what the people in the M want.

 

 

I cant speak for anyone else, but, the majority of people ( and I am proud to say I am not one) go spouting off to all their family and friends etc., which while can be exposure to help gain support, sometimes it is about shaming. In those cased for the BP (in my experience) staying with WS is made doubly difficult because then lots of other people and relatives often brand WS "cheater" and BS "stupid" for the least of the R.

[katielee]

this was not my experience at all. I didn't tell my Mom and sisters to shame my husband (or myself). We needed support. Someone to talk to. And that's what we received. And at no time did they ever say or think either of us was stupid for staying...

[purplesorrow]

Mrs A you know I don't subscribe to your methodologies usually but again that is NOMB. You and Mr. A are role models for overcoming infidelity if that is what the people in the M want.

 

 

I cant speak for anyone else, but, the majority of people ( and I am proud to say I am not one) go spouting off to all their family and friends etc., which while can be exposure to help gain support, sometimes it is about shaming. In those cased for the BP (in my experience) staying with WS is made doubly difficult because then lots of other people and relatives often brand WS "cheater" and BS "stupid" for the least of the R.

 

This couldn't be more wrong in my situation. My ex told his friends and family. They railed around us both and encouraged him to get help. The few that I told reminded me of the type of man they knew him to be and encouraged reconciling. My family and friend that know treat him the same as they always have, with love and kindness. Absolutely no one that found out encouraged divorce. They were just sad hurt and disappointed. A couple of his friends changed toward him, but he had used them as alibis without their knowledge so I really don't blame them.

[JohnAdams]

To this day no one in my family knows. Mrs. JA's mother knows. I spent the day after D Day at Mrs. JA's mother's house. We talked all day. She was very sympathetic and supportive as well as very pro reconciliation. I seriously doubt that we would still be together had it not been for her mother. In those days there were no support forums. However, I have somewhat wondered if all I had was support forums if we would have ended up divorcing.

[NewLeaf512]

this was not my experience at all. I didn't tell my Mom and sisters to shame my husband (or myself). We needed support. Someone to talk to. And that's what we received. And at no time did they ever say or think either of us was stupid for staying...

 

 

I am not referring to you. I have friends who have done this.

[cocorico]

If you read the book "Not Just Friends" and some other books by a Dr. Barry McCarthy, a pretty well know author on infidelity, you will get information stating that affairs by women are more likely to end the marriage because women are most often emotionally checked out of the marriage before the sex actually starts.

 

That is born out unscientifically on these forums. You do NOT see too many men posting about they cannot give up AP once the sex stops, and breaking up what remains of their marriages by breaking NC if they are certain they will get no more sex. You even see it when women involved with MM say they keep coming back but for the sex.

 

You then see many posts from women who break uop the marriage because they cannot emotionalluy let go of their OM or continue to cheat.

 

Our brains are wired differently. If you accept that you will understand that it has nothing to to with strength of one sex or the other. It has to do with out needs, and men primarily enter affairs for sex. Women primarily enter affairs for their emotional needs. That does NOT mean that men have no eomotional needs or that women do not like sex.

 

But that is what the most famous expert PHD's on the subject say over and over again

 

My H must be a woman, then. We were LDR so most of the time he wasn't getting sex (except virtually), but what he had been really craving was emotional intimacy.

 

He had other, easier sources of sex if that was all he wanted.

[cocorico]

Mrs Adams shared a news article with me that made me think

 

 

If you are an exWS who got another chance with BS:

 

 

Did the R last? If so how long?

 

 

If the R did not last, how long did you stay together? who ended it? why did they end it?

 

 

and for all exWS did you ever think of your AP after the R?

 

 

The Wall Street Journal says most couples who stay together after an A initially end up divorcing

 

 

That was what made me think.

 

My father was WS. He stayed - until he kids had grown. Then he left, and M his fOW. Clearly, he hadn't stopped thinking about her.

[Mrs. John Adams]

To this day no one in my family knows. Mrs. JA's mother knows. I spent the day after D Day at Mrs. JA's mother's house. We talked all day. She was very sympathetic and supportive as well as very pro reconciliation. I seriously doubt that we would still be together had it not been for her mother. In those days there were no support forums. However, I have somewhat wondered if all I had was support forums if we would have ended up divorcing.

 

32 years ago...divorce laws were different, mindset was different. If a woman committed adultery in those days...it was more likely the couple would divorce and she stood a very good chance of also being declared an unfit mother and would lose her children. Yet....you chose to reconcile.

 

We may not have had internet to inform us about infidelity...but we always had resources...books, magazines. Yet you chose to reconcile.

 

Then the Internet came on the scene...and we had information at our fingertips....yet you chose to reconcile.

 

At any given point in the last 32 years....you could have divorced me. Yet you chose to reconcile.

 

Why? Because you have always loved me...because you are not a quitter...you don't give up...you pushed through. Because we kept trying until we got it right....because even though there were triggers and even though I was not giving you the remorse you longed for...we were happy.

 

Your ability to forgive was greater than my sin against you....your patience in waiting for me to give you what you needed....was immeasurable. Your love for me while I was unlovable has been overwhelming.

 

No mr. adams....you need not wonder if you had access to forums would you have divorced me....I know the answer. It would have been the exact same answer 32 years ago. I am that sure...I have no doubts.

 

You see..I know how hard you fought for me...and while you deserve so much better than I am...no one could love and respect you more than I do.

 

My mother was a wise woman...and I am so glad she was there for you...and I will forever be grateful to her. She gave you the support you needed to do what you thought was right. Reconciliation is right for us.

 

No forum...would have changed that.....

[katielee]

I am not referring to you. I have friends who have done this.

 

I know, I was just throwing another experience out there.

[Bittersweetie]

Mrs Adams shared a news article with me that made me think

 

If you are an exWS who got another chance with BS:

 

Did the R last? If so how long?

 

D-day was over 5.5 years ago and we are still together.

 

If the R did not last, how long did you stay together? who ended it? why did they end it?

 

N/A

 

and for all exWS did you ever think of your AP after the R?

 

No. I now understand that everything "positive" I saw in him were projections of my own needs and wants at the time. I see now that he was just as messed up as I was. And currently I have so many good things in my life that I have no need or desire to think about him.

 

The Wall Street Journal says most couples who stay together after an A initially end up divorcing

 

That was what made me think.

 

Another poster here on LS has stated that a true R needs both a WS and a BS who are 100% in. I think that is true...R is not for everyone.

 

Some rug-sweep and never get to the core of the issues. Me, I chose to look at why I thought the things I did were okay. I made changes to my outlook on life and coping skills, and committed to being a better partner. My H decided to give me another chance, and also look at his issues with himself and our marriage.

 

I can't speak to divorce since I haven't been through one, but I can say R is not an easy road. But, for us, it's been worth it. Do I wish we got here on a different path? Heck yes. I drove us down the worst path possible. However we made the choice to learn and grow and look forward and that's what has worked for us.

[drifter777]

To this day no one in my family knows. Mrs. JA's mother knows. I spent the day after D Day at Mrs. JA's mother's house. We talked all day. She was very sympathetic and supportive as well as very pro reconciliation. I seriously doubt that we would still be together had it not been for her mother. In those days there were no support forums. However, I have somewhat wondered if all I had was support forums if we would have ended up divorcing.

 

And would that have been a terrible outcome? Thirty years of "mostly" reconciliation still meant thirty years of occasional triggers and a certain amount of anger & disgust for what she did rising up in your gut. Maybe you didn't tell her every time and maybe you learned how to compartmentalize and move on but, really, is it not possible that divorcing back could have been a better choice for YOUR recovery?

[JohnAdams]

And would that have been a terrible outcome? Thirty years of "mostly" reconciliation still meant thirty years of occasional triggers and a certain amount of anger & disgust for what she did rising up in your gut. Maybe you didn't tell her every time and maybe you learned how to compartmentalize and move on but, really, is it not possible that divorcing back could have been a better choice for YOUR recovery?

 

Of course any answer to this would be strictly hypothetical. I know I am glad that I stayed married. Infidelity is certainly the worst thing that could ever happen to a marriage. Yes, there are worse things in life that can happen to you individually.

 

I know of several BS's on this forum and others that are more than 30 years out and divorced and remarried but they still trigger, they are still on here talking about their infidelity, they still suffer from the trauma even though they have moved on and love their new wife.

 

Divorcing does not erase what happened to you. In my case, I loved my wife, I could not imagine life without her, even given the pain I wanted to make it work. Sure I had triggers all these years,but we have had an amazing life. Take away the infidelity and I would even say we have had a fairy tale life. So, in 43 years, we had a bad, very bad, few months. Do I throw it all away because an immature young woman made such a terrible choice. She realized the terrible choice she made and we have gone on to a wonderful life.

 

I cannot imagine ever loving another woman like I love Mrs. JA. So, do I divorce her out of spite? In this case, it is good that I am a logical person because I realized this very fact.

 

I do not consider myself a superficial person. Personality is much more important to me than looks. Having said that Mrs. JA is a very beautiful woman, always has been and still is very much so even today. Our sex life would be an envy even to the most horny guy. She is my best friend. I want to spend all of my time with her. Would I be happier divorced, Hell No!

 

I cannot express how happy I am that we did not divorce. Time and age has really made me appreciate my choice. Life is wonderful. No way I want to live without Mrs. JA!!!

[Mrs. John Adams]

I would like to ask a question....for those of you who have divorced...do you ever have occasional triggers and a certain amount of anger & disgust for what your spouse did rising up in your gut?

 

Does divorce remove those things from your life? OR do you still have them and learn to live with them?

 

Drifter...I can tell you what i think...he would have suffered those things regardless if he had divorced me or not.....what he wanted was for it not to have happened...but it did...and no amount of wishing it had not happened would change that. He loved me....he wanted me.....he did not want to lose his family....

Would he have "healed" sooner had he divorced me? We can speculate either side of this coin.....my speculation is....he would choose to keep me all over again if he knew then what he knows now....because as hard as it may be for others to believe.....we have been happy.

[road]

And would that have been a terrible outcome? Thirty years of "mostly" reconciliation still meant thirty years of occasional triggers and a certain amount of anger & disgust for what she did rising up in your gut. Maybe you didn't tell her every time and maybe you learned how to compartmentalize and move on but, really, is it not possible that divorcing back could have been a better choice for YOUR recovery?

 

 

There would be triggers whether the BH chose recovery or divorce. Is it better for the BS to spite themselves for short term gain through a divorce over long term loss of the marriage?

 

 

Remember most people stay married after an affair.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Road....I am answering for me not for John Adams. How do we EVER know that we know the whole truth? All we know is what we have been told....and we have to decide for ourselves whether it is the "truth" ...if it is the whole "truth" ...and if we believe it.

 

I have chosen to believe the facts that John gave me about his RA....thirty years later...I still believe he gave me the whole truth...but how would i ever know differently unless at this point he decides to tell me more.

 

I told him several years ago....if there is more to your story...if you have had other affairs...I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW.

 

You see...at this point in our lives....I am happy...I am content....and even if there is more to know...I don't care. I love him for the man he is today....I love our marriage...and I love our life together. I don't want to speculate on what ifs and scenarios....because honestly....there are just some things we will never know....and there comes a time we just have to have blind faith and trust our partner.

 

You have to decide if those things matter...if you fear there is more to know and it is an issue for you...then you must do what is right for you.

 

but for us.....we are where we want to be in our relationship....and we are satisfied with how far we have come.

[compulsivedancer]

We tried to reconcile, and we talked very openly on LS about our R as well as what led up to our divorce. You can look at my past threads, as well as H's (Compulsive Musician).

 

We tried for about 1 3/4 years to reconcile. Things went really well at first, but then the ardor of reconciliation wore off. He started withdrawing and never really forgave me, and I remembered why I was unhappy in the first place. I also longed to get some questions answered from OM. Finally, I wanted to have kids, and it was becoming clear that this man wasn't ready and wouldn't be any time soon.

 

I contacted OM (not to rekindle, but to answer some questions and tie up loose ends). I told H, we hashed things out, and we both separately came to the conclusion that it was time to split up.

 

It's been about 10 months now, and we both agree that divorce was the right choice. I know I'm a lot happier than I have been in a long time. I think H's journey is a little longer, and with more mixed feelings, but that's not surprising. This is the first time he's ever been in charge of his own life, and he's learning a lot about himself and about what he really wants out of life. I think he'll get there, and he'll be happy with where he ends up.

 

I have not seen OM since we split. I did exchange a couple e-mails with him, and it cleared a lot of things up. Honestly, I think I should have contacted him much much earlier when I first had questions, for my own emotional well-being.

 

I have a wonderful boyfriend now that I've been dating for 6 months. He is amazing, and things are going very well. He knows the outline of my history of the affair, though we haven't gone into detail.

 

Now that I have more experience to contrast with xH and my relationship, it's easy to see that we were young and naive and looking for the wrong things out of marriage. We were best friends, but that wasn't really enough. We didn't really have a strong physical attraction, we wanted different things out of life, we had different ideas about marriage, and we didn't really properly lay the groundwork. In short, we were just plain too young and too inexperienced, and we both changed a lot after we got married, but not in ways that brought us together.

Edited September 26, 2015 by compulsivedancer

[NewLeaf512]

Road....I am answering for me not for John Adams. How do we EVER know that we know the whole truth? All we know is what we have been told....and we have to decide for ourselves whether it is the "truth" ...if it is the whole "truth" ...and if we believe it.

 

 

You see...at this point in our lives....I am happy...I am content....and even if there is more to know...I don't care. I love him for the man he is today....I love our marriage...and I love our life together. I don't want to speculate on what ifs and scenarios....because honestly....there are just some things we will never know....and there comes a time we just have to have blind faith and trust our partner.

 

You have to decide if those things matter...if you fear there is more to know and it is an issue for you...then you must do what is right for you.

 

but for us.....we are where we want to be in our relationship....and we are satisfied with how far we have come.

 

 

you know I always bleat about how I wouldn't use your method and I wouldn't. But I am in complete agreement and support of:

 

 

NO ONE ever knows anyone 100%

Mr and Mrs Adams love each other

Their R and the length of it is very, very rare

They are happy

And whatever I or anyone else thinks of how they got there or why the did it is immaterial. They tell the truth for better or worse and they are happy. That's all that counts in the end. That they are happy.

 

 

As for me, I am working on what happy means for me now. Here is 1 thing I feel 100% sure of regarding my situation: IF BS pre-deceases idiot, he will immediately try to find me and make himself vanish from his old life. IF that does happen as I feel certain it will, if I even remember him, I will take great karmic joy in telling him to F* off, and carry on with the happy, truthful and authentic life I will have made for me.

[compulsivedancer]

There are now two polls - one for those who eventually divorced, a second for those who are still together.

[autumnnight]

32 years ago...divorce laws were different, mindset was different. If a woman committed adultery in those days...it was more likely the couple would divorce and she stood a very good chance of also being declared an unfit mother and would lose her children. Yet....you chose to reconcile.

 

We may not have had internet to inform us about infidelity...but we always had resources...books, magazines. Yet you chose to reconcile.

 

Then the Internet came on the scene...and we had information at our fingertips....yet you chose to reconcile.

 

At any given point in the last 32 years....you could have divorced me. Yet you chose to reconcile.

 

Why? Because you have always loved me...because you are not a quitter...you don't give up...you pushed through. Because we kept trying until we got it right....because even though there were triggers and even though I was not giving you the remorse you longed for...we were happy.

 

Your ability to forgive was greater than my sin against you....your patience in waiting for me to give you what you needed....was immeasurable. Your love for me while I was unlovable has been overwhelming.

 

No mr. adams....you need not wonder if you had access to forums would you have divorced me....I know the answer. It would have been the exact same answer 32 years ago. I am that sure...I have no doubts.

 

You see..I know how hard you fought for me...and while you deserve so much better than I am...no one could love and respect you more than I do.

 

My mother was a wise woman...and I am so glad she was there for you...and I will forever be grateful to her. She gave you the support you needed to do what you thought was right. Reconciliation is right for us.

 

No forum...would have changed that.....

 

I agree with this, because I sense your husband has more strength of character than to be bullied into hating you by a bunch of other bitter men.

[sportygirl89]

My parents are still together after my dad having multiple affairs. I think it was harder for them going to counseling. But they worked towards it for the kids.

[road]

Road....I am answering for me not for John Adams. How do we EVER know that we know the whole truth? All we know is what we have been told....and we have to decide for ourselves whether it is the "truth" ...if it is the whole "truth" ...and if we believe it.

 

I have chosen to believe the facts that John gave me about his RA....thirty years later...I still believe he gave me the whole truth...but how would i ever know differently unless at this point he decides to tell me more.

 

I told him several years ago....if there is more to your story...if you have had other affairs...I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW.

 

You see...at this point in our lives....I am happy...I am content....and even if there is more to know...I don't care. I love him for the man he is today....I love our marriage...and I love our life together. I don't want to speculate on what ifs and scenarios....because honestly....there are just some things we will never know....and there comes a time we just have to have blind faith and trust our partner.

 

You have to decide if those things matter...if you fear there is more to know and it is an issue for you...then you must do what is right for you.

 

but for us.....we are where we want to be in our relationship....and we are satisfied with how far we have come.

 

 

Your post is not the post of a BH. As a BH what would you have done if you never got the whole truth was the question. As you are not A BH, not have been trickled truthed, so your post falls short.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I agree with this, because I sense your husband has more strength of character than to be bullied into hating you by a bunch of other bitter men.

 

AMEN.....even today those men tell him to divorce me or he should have divorced me....and someone tell me...what good would that do at this point?

 

While we are not the poster children for how we got here.....you would be hard pressed to find another couple as happy and content as we are.

 

Do we still wish it had never happened? Of course we do...and we will until our dying day. It is a part of our life we hate....but it does not define us and it does not keep us from living a fulfilled life together.

 

My purpose here it to provide HOPE.....successful reconciliation is possible and does happen. It is not the right answer for every couple faced with infidelity....but for us...it was and still is the best choice.