Buddhist Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 She then said 'I don't want to ever give up control". IMHO wanting to constantly be in control has nothing to do with independance or feminism. It's a psychological issue, that just does not work out in life. Interdependance is the strongest stance, needing to be in control at all times in life will not work for partnership unless you are dating a doormat. If you think it's going to be a problem, it will be a problem. You can always have a chat about her control issues, where they stem from and what she fears from not being in control. If what you hear concerns you then it's time to move on.
katiegrl Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 What bothers me the most are guys using the word "feminist" to describe negative behavior in women. I agree smackie.... from what I know about feminism, this is not feminism. I am sure that even when a hard core feminist falls and hurts herself, she would allow her boyfriend (or any man) to help her get up for crying out loud.
Grumpybutfun Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 OP, I just wanted to add something about gender traits.... Equality isn't about women wanting to become men. That is where I think most young men get it wrong. I think they just want their traits or strengths to be as respected and regarded as men's. If, as a society, we valued nurturing as much as capitalism, then perhaps women would feel more equal. If women were as respected and regarded as men for their caregiving, intelligence, planning, communication, or softness as expected by society, perhaps they wouldn't feel the need to want to be logical, boorishly independent, strong, protective or hard like men are expected by society. We all carry feminine and masculine traits...the fact that many women will come in here and say but I don't carry feminine traits only serves to show how we as a society have devalued those traits. The fact that men will deny to their dying breath they carry feminine traits show the same. We have taken the strengths of one gender and devalued them to such an extent as a society, no one values them until it is time for young men to want a life's partner and mother of their future children. Do you think your gfs extreme reaction is due to you somehow devaluing directly or indirectly, people depending on others? I don't know, I'm just asking a question that occurred to me and could be off the mark, but what do you value in people in general and what does she see when she sees what you value? Best, Grumps 3
TaraMaiden2 Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 I agree smackie.... from what I know about feminism, this is not feminism. No, it really isn't. I am sure that even when a hard core feminist falls and hurts herself, she would allow her boyfriend (or any man) to help her get up for crying out loud. I most certainly do.
katiegrl Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 That is exactly what I suggested earlier.... Tried to edit but too late... After ff's recent postings describing her behavior (and why) in more detail.... I think it goes beyond her rebelling against ff personally. His behavior was NOT in any way controlling or dominant.... he was acting exactly how a good, caring boyfriend would act... At least in this regard. As to how he's been acting with her up to that point.... I can't say because he has not discussed that. But yeah it could be her perception that he is dominant (and controlling) and after four months.... after the newness wears off....it's starting to get to her....so her lashing out could have been a build up of what's happening in their RL up that point. 1
Oregon_Dude Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 Dude, she's got some heavy baggage. You keep making excuses for her. You've seen the true her now. Give it a couple more months, and if she's still being b*tchy and demands to be the man in this r/s (EXCEPT IN BED, yes we get it), then this thing is done. Angry women are scary as sh*t. This one is a firecracker, and methinks you can't handle her, nor should you have to. 1
TaraMaiden2 Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 Interesting though, that she's submissive/passive in sex. A time when people are at their most emotionally and psychologically vulnerable, and leave themselves open to misuse and abuse, that she takes a passive role. There's more to this woman than strident feminism. Which her behaviour isn't. 1
Grumpybutfun Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 What bothers me the most are guys using the word "feminist" to describe negative behavior in women. Well, in all fairness, they are also attributing her bad behavior to masculine traits so both genders are getting kicked on this one. G 1
BlueIris Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 With all the arm-chair shrinking going around, I want to restate what’s been said already: she had injured herself and was in pain. I have known BOTH men and women who react to injury and pain with “Stop. Wait.” Heck, my daughter screamed when the EMTs tried to move her when she broke her leg. She let them help, of course, but resisted at first because she was… in pain. In general…. And not necessarily about you FF… I want to add: women need to stop admitting their histories and their own self-criticism to men. Men sure don’t do it as easily and naturally as women do, and many men glom on to women’s self-deprecation, self-criticism and self-examination and even just sharing as fault, as their “out” for looking at themselves and the dynamic as a whole. I think this female tendency to see fault in ourselves and admit it is often the hook for “she’s crazy” or “she’s broken” thinking. Zip your lips, ladies. 4
Author fitnessfan365 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Dude, she's got some heavy baggage. You keep making excuses for her. You've seen the true her now. Give it a couple more months, and if she's still being b*tchy and demands to be the man in this r/s (EXCEPT IN BED, yes we get it), then this thing is done. Angry women are scary as sh*t. This one is a firecracker, and methinks you can't handle her, nor should you have to. Well in her defense, she's been the most loyal, caring, and supportive GF ever the whole time I've known her. So I wouldn't write her off over her behavior on the trip alone. Also, I want to stress that even though we bickered a bit and had a few arguments, the majority of the vacation was still fun and enjoyable. Plus we squashed things quickly and communicated about it. What I'm wondering is if it was an isolated incident, or if it's going to be the start of a trend. As Jen said, she may be starting to showcase the real her and has been toning things down for my benefit. So I'm going to wait it out and observe how she acts the next 2-3 months. Also, she claims that I'm the only guy to ever truly understand her and handle her properly. Guys she dated always got intimidated by her and I never have been. Edited September 25, 2015 by fitnessfan365
katiegrl Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Well in her defense, she's been the most loyal, caring, and supportive GF ever the whole time I've known her. So I wouldn't write her off over her behavior on the trip alone. Also, I want to stress that even though we bickered a bit and had a few arguments, the majority of the vacation was still fun and enjoyable. Plus we squashed things quickly and communicated about it. What I'm wondering is if it was an isolated incident, or if it's going to be the start of a trend. As Jen said, she may be starting to showcase the real her and has been toning things down for my benefit. So I'm going to wait it out and observe how she acts the next 2-3 months. Also, she claims that I'm the only guy to ever truly understand her and handle her properly. Guys she dated always got intimidated by her and I never have been. LOL @ "handle her properly." Did she really say that??? Wow. But seriously, that's great ff, I am glad y'all are working it out..... all RLs have little kinks that need to be ironed out... Edited September 25, 2015 by katiegrl
xxoo Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Also, she claims that I'm the only guy to ever truly understand her and handle her properly. Obviously, she is not any kind of hardcore feminist if she uses phrasing like that. Why would you assume her bad mood and resistance to your help was because of feminism? Such an odd leap. Assumptions like that just shut down communication and understanding in favor of dismissing as "feminism" Edited September 25, 2015 by xxoo 3
Author fitnessfan365 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) LOL @ "handle her properly." Did she really say that??? Wow. But seriously, that's great ff, I am glad y'all are working it out..... all RLs have little kinks that need to be ironed out... Haha.. Yeah that's a direct quote. Why would you assume her bad mood and resistance to your help was because of feminism? Such an odd leap. Assumptions like that just shut down communication and understanding in favor of dismissing as "feminism" Well as I've said multiple times now, she's never acted like a "hardcore" feminist. She just has a few feminist tendencies like wanting to plan some of the dates, pay for some of them, open her own door, etc.. It took some adjusting for me, but I've grown to appreciate those things b/c we feel like a team. But on the plane after the bag incident, she stressed that she never wants to be submissive to any man, and wants us to have equal control and roles in the relationship. So it seemed like some intense feminism in that instance. I guess in that moment she took my advising her to sit down to rest her ankle and offering to put her bag up as me trying to "control" her? I just saw it as doing the decent thing. Who knows..LOL It's over and done w/now. Edited September 25, 2015 by fitnessfan365
katiegrl Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Also, she claims that I'm the only guy to ever truly understand her and handle her properly. Guys she dated always got intimidated by her and I never have been. Not to give you shyt..lol, but You have created two threads about her (that I have read) since you started dating her four months ago. So obviously, you have a few issues "handling" her, do you not? Otherwise, there would have been no need to ask US.... you would have simply discussed your concerns with her.... or confronted her with them directly. Perhaps you don't "show" her you are intimidated (or hurt, confused, pissed off) or whatevs....but that doesn't mean you're not. Just from reading your threads, it really does sound like SHE is running the show, not you. And she's really got you "wrapped." Just sayin. Edited September 25, 2015 by katiegrl 1
Author fitnessfan365 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Posted September 25, 2015 Not to give you shyt..lol, but You have created two threads about her (that I have read) since you started dating her four months ago. So obviously, you have a few issues "handling" her, do you not? Otherwise, there would have been no need to ask US.... you would have simply discussed them or confronted them with "her" directly. Well as I've said multiple times now, there's never been any issues w/her behavior at all until the trip. So there was never a need for another thread. Also, we've always clicked really well because she's feisty/blunt, and I'm a smart ass that playfully keeps her in line when she contradicts herself. That's why there's always been a lot of passion/sexual energy between us. Finally, I already did discuss it w/her directly and it was squashed when I started the thread. But it was designed to be more of a rant than anything else. As I've said before, I tend to have a hard time letting things go right away. So even though me and her talked about it in depth and got things settled, I still had a bit of it in my system. If that makes any sense.
mrldii Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 ...Well as I've said multiple times now, she's never acted like a "hardcore" feminist. She just has a few feminist tendencies like wanting to plan some of the dates, pay for some of them, open her own door, etc.. It took some adjusting for me, but I've grown to appreciate those things b/c we feel like a team... Oh, cool. So, this thread has served a purpose and you have learned something about yourself/your girlfriend/your relationship. You're now using "feminist" interchangeably with "human", as opposed to using it *like* a derogatory put-down, as you did when first entering the room. By the way, earlier you said she was "stubborn" (in addition to a host of other horrible qualities), but then, later, you acknowledged that you, too, are "stubborn". Does this mean you, also, are a [dreaded] "feminist" or that you are simply "human", too? [As a dreaded "feminist" myself, I'm just trying to get a handle on the delineations between being "human" and being a "too-masculine feminist" who simply just doesn't know her place.] 5
Gaeta Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 But on the plane after the bag incident, she stressed that she never wants to be submissive to any man, and wants us to have equal control and roles in the relationship. How does the bag incident even relate to being submissive to a man, and keeping control, and roles in a relationship!! Next time I hope you let her deal with the new jar of pickle, don't you help her open it !! Ok on a serious note. She is controlling but micro-controlling. She wants to control stupid little things like baggage and being helped up to her feet and whats not. Usually people that are micro-controlling are people that have no control over bigger aspects of their life and they're are reaching at anything to control. Your next thread shall be interesting ;-) 1
Woggle Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 I am usually critical of what passes as modern feminism because often times it is just an excuse for misandry but you shouldn't blame it every time a woman acts like an a hole. Sometimes an a hole is just an a hole.
LookAtThisPOst Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 My GF and I just had our first vacation together in Chicago. GREAT city and a lot of fun. But it did put some doubt in my mind. I've always known she was independent and a bit of a feminist. But until this trip, I had no idea just how extreme it was. She never wanted to take my advice..on anything. She never wanted my help..on anything. On activities, she'd constantly try to dictate which way we went, what I should look at, or walk out in front of me to try and lead. Two extreme cases : 1) She had a NASTY fall @ the Lincoln Park Zoo. Her ankle might actually be broken. Knowing she won't be able to stand, I go to help her up to take weight off it. She refuses. I insist. She keeps telling me to leave her alone. So I finally say "You're hurt. So shut up and let me help you". She finally relents, and after I get her to her feet, I put her arm over my shoulder to take even more weight off to get to the nearest bench. She fights me the whole way. 2) Coming home on the plane, she was in front of me in the boarding line. Hobbling along. So I say "Sit down and rest babe. I'll put your bag up with mine. She insists on doing it herself. Then she tries to take my bag out of my hands and put mine up too. So I say "No thanks, I can handle my own bag". This of course lead to an argument on the plane. She admitted that she's never wanted to be submissive to any man except in bed for anything, and never wants to have to depend on one at all. Then she asked if I found that unattractive, I was honest and admitted that it kind of was. That we're in a relationship, and she has to be able to rely on her man for things sometimes. That there is no shame in it. She then said 'I don't want to ever give up control". Now as people on here know, I'm old fashioned and like traditional gender roles for the most part even though I appreciate compromise and an independent woman. But if she is so independent and such a feminist, it makes me doubt how we'd be long term. Not my kind of woman. I like a "softer" woman. Nothing would turn me off more than a woman that would fight me tooth and nail on that. It shows a lack of humility on her part. Might as well be dating a man. I recall a woman I was dating, could barely fight herself out of a wet paper bag, was attempting to carry bags of heavy salt to the softner, by herself...she was struggling. I offered to help, but she's like " no that's okay", but as she continued to struggle...she said, "okay, yeah it is kind of heavy, thank you." At least she relented or fessed up. 2
guest569 Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 Well, in all fairness, they are also attributing her bad behavior to masculine traits so both genders are getting kicked on this one. G But I'm sure those same masculine traits are considered desirable ... When men exhibit them. Oh, cool. So, this thread has served a purpose and you have learned something about yourself/your girlfriend/your relationship. You're now using "feminist" interchangeably with "human", as opposed to using it *like* a derogatory put-down, as you did when first entering the room. By the way, earlier you said she was "stubborn" (in addition to a host of other horrible qualities), but then, later, you acknowledged that you, too, are "stubborn". Does this mean you, also, are a [dreaded] "feminist" or that you are simply "human", too? [As a dreaded "feminist" myself, I'm just trying to get a handle on the delineations between being "human" and being a "too-masculine feminist" who simply just doesn't know her place.] Good point! I would go a step further and say that fitness fan is a hardcore feminist. Maybe it does go deeper than plain stubbornness or being cranky with each other on a trip. Some of your posts loudly state that you want to control the relationship and want a woman to be submissive (but now you have changed and don't mind a dominant woman? Or are you just kidding yourself because you like her a great deal?) 1
katiegrl Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Well as I've said multiple times now, there's never been any issues w/her behavior at all until the trip. So there was never a need for another thread. Also, we've always clicked really well because she's feisty/blunt, and I'm a smart ass that playfully keeps her in line when she contradicts herself. That's why there's always been a lot of passion/sexual energy between us. Finally, I already did discuss it w/her directly and it was squashed when I started the thread. But it was designed to be more of a rant than anything else. As I've said before, I tend to have a hard time letting things go right away. So even though me and her talked about it in depth and got things settled, I still had a bit of it in my system. If that makes any sense. Well there was the thread about her inviting her friend to join you on your anniversary. Yes, you did say no, but then came on here wondering if you over-reacted. Just my opinion, but a truly confident, dominant man would not have been second-guessing himself. He would have just said, "no, it's "our" anniversary, that's ridiculous," and left it at that....no need to create a thread asking us what we thought... Look this is JMO though, you know your RL better than I. I just know that my own boyfriend doesn't second guess himself when he stands up to me or confronts me .... he is very confident in his decisions re how he responds to me, and interacts with me. Edited September 25, 2015 by katiegrl
xxoo Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 Not my kind of woman. I like a "softer" woman. Nothing would turn me off more than a woman that would fight me tooth and nail on that. It shows a lack of humility on her part. Might as well be dating a man. Exactly: might as well be dating a man. Which we, as women, know all about. I get a kick out of all these conventionally masculine traits getting described as controlling and lacking humility and stubborn. Just think, guys, you're describing yourselves! 1
Gaeta Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 ....no need to create a thread asking us what we thought... People don't need to have huge issues to post. Sometimes we know our answer but we're interested in hearing other's take on it. 1
Author fitnessfan365 Posted September 25, 2015 Author Posted September 25, 2015 He would have just said, "no, it's "our" anniversary, that's ridiculous," and left it at that....no need to create a thread asking us what we thought.... Haha.. That's exactly what I told her. But once again, that thread was just more of a rant/surprised reaction.
katiegrl Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 People don't need to have huge issues to post. Sometimes we know our answer but we're interested in hearing other's take on it. I realize that, but, as much I like ff ... he claims to be unlike "most" people (my words) in that he is dominant, in control and confident. Again, JMO I just don't think a man who claims to be "that" confident (and dominant) would be needing to hear other people's take on whatever issues he is experiencing with his girlfriend.
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