Hardcore feminst and too independent

[fitnessfan365]

How did you offer to help? She can't get up if you only support her arm. You should just pick her up and carry her over to a bench or carry her to the car. A lot of men can pick up like 2/3 of their own weight and walk around. That always amazed me.

 

I did pick her up. Then I set her down, put her arm around me to help her take weight, and walked her over to the nearest bench.

[Maggie4]

I did pick her up. Then I set her down, put her arm around me to help her take weight, and walked her over to the nearest bench.

 

Well, if you're a fitness guy, I'm sure she was in good hands. You had fights but you know she was better off having you around, even if she won't admit it. Unfortunately, in life many times it happens there's no man around when you need one the most!

[Gloria25]

So what? Let her do her own thing. You mustn't baby her.

 

It isn't "babying" her...

 

RLs are "teams". Like it or not we live in a world where you can't make it on your own. Everybody needs "somebody" at some point in their lives.

 

Our SOs are our sanctuary. We come to them for support, comfort, peace, etc.

 

Sadly the women's movement has brainwashed women to feel belittled if a man comes to "rescue" us.

 

It took me years to finally let my self sit back and let a man do things and quite frankly it took place with my FWB barely over 2 years ago and I'm going on 40. I also find it hard to let go and depend on someone cuz in my childhood I guess my parents not giving a hoot about us taught me to NEVER depend on anyone but me, myself, and I.

 

I feel sorry for the OPs gf. You don't know how liberating it is to just let a man please you. For the short time I was with my FWB and I finally broke down and let him simply do some handiguy stuff for me, it was nice for me to greet him with a warm coffee as he fixed my vehicle in the cold garage.

 

And, this is not just about sitting back and make a man your "servant". RLs are about mutual giving. He does this for me, and in return I do this for him. If one partner (male or female) is always pushing the other away then shoot, what is the partner there for? For that just stay single and get a dog if you want company that you can tell to sit, roll over, etc.

 

I believe men don't want a "slug" or a "leech". They want women to have some independence but still need them. Cuz, also, men also have times they need a woman's strength and support, but men don't also want their role to provide/protect be absolutely taken away from them either.

[xcupid]

 

Can a man that likes a traditional relationship survive in a relationship with an extremely independent and feminist woman? There are definite benefits. I like that she offers date ideas and pays some of the time. It takes pressure off of me feeling like an entertainment director and she's not treating me like an ATM. But part of what makes a man feel special and appreciated is when his woman needs his help and has to rely on him some of the time.

 

 

You should be asking yourself that question, not others. Can YOU survive in that type of relationship? How do you feel about it? Sounds like you're having a hard time with it - and I don't blame you. It makes you feel that you can't help or be of service to her.

[neowulf]

I believe men don't want a "slug" or a "leech". They want women to have some independence but still need them. Cuz, also, men also have times they need a woman's strength and support, but men don't also want their role to provide/protect be absolutely taken away from them either.

 

Since the gender revolution, I believe men have become confused as to their role in relationships.

 

It's simply unclear what's expected of them. Much like you've stated, I'm not interested in becoming a door mat. I'm not going to tolerate a women who takes and takes. That's not what I'm searching for.

 

What I am searching for is someone who will let her guard down enough to admit that sometimes she might need some help. Someone who will *let* me be the strong one now and then, when she needs it.

 

I completely agree. Our SO's should be our partners in life. We should have each others backs, be there, for when the other is in need. That balance may be difficult to find, but I firmly believe it's the ideal.

[ManyDissapoint]

It isn't "babying" her...

 

RLs are "teams". Like it or not we live in a world where you can't make it on your own. Everybody needs "somebody" at some point in their lives.

 

Our SOs are our sanctuary. We come to them for support, comfort, peace, etc.

 

Sadly the women's movement has brainwashed women to feel belittled if a man comes to "rescue" us.

 

It took me years to finally let my self sit back and let a man do things and quite frankly it took place with my FWB barely over 2 years ago and I'm going on 40. I also find it hard to let go and depend on someone cuz in my childhood I guess my parents not giving a hoot about us taught me to NEVER depend on anyone but me, myself, and I.

 

I feel sorry for the OPs gf. You don't know how liberating it is to just let a man please you. For the short time I was with my FWB and I finally broke down and let him simply do some handiguy stuff for me, it was nice for me to greet him with a warm coffee as he fixed my vehicle in the cold garage.

 

And, this is not just about sitting back and make a man your "servant". RLs are about mutual giving. He does this for me, and in return I do this for him. If one partner (male or female) is always pushing the other away then shoot, what is the partner there for? For that just stay single and get a dog if you want company that you can tell to sit, roll over, etc.

 

I believe men don't want a "slug" or a "leech". They want women to have some independence but still need them. Cuz, also, men also have times they need a woman's strength and support, but men don't also want their role to provide/protect be absolutely taken away from them either.

 

This. People fight their nature too much because of ideologies and social conditioning.

[Els]

Others have made this excellent point already, but I'll say it again - this has nothing to do with genuine feminism, and it's frankly quite concerning that you think it does.

 

That being said I do agree that there are a few women who labour under a similar misconception as you do - that if they want to be 'strong women' they cannot accept any sort of pampering or help from a man, ever. IMO that is borne out of insecurity and a desire to be 'different from other women'. I feel that those few ladies doth protest too much - most people who are confident in themselves and in being equals, don't have any issues with a kind hand helping them up when they fall.

 

TL;DR: This is about her as an individual, not about feminism.

[BlueIris]

She may have just needed some more time.

 

It can be hard to sit with someone in pain and realize you can't fix it for them. But sometimes, that's the best approach. She would've asked for help when she was ready for it.

 

It really has nothing to do with feminism.

 

Sometimes (most of the time) it's not about you. 100% of the time, when someone is injured, their reaction is not about you.

 

Don't make it about you. Try to listen and support rather than trying to take charge and fix it.

 

So nicely put.

 

If her reaction to injuring her ankle was enough to end the relationship, there must not have been much of a relationship.

 

Or… she’s a witch.

[acrosstheuniverse]

This is nothing to do with feminism, do you even know what feminism is?

 

It's about personality type. She obviously doesn't like to rely on other people. Or maybe she's the type of person where when she gets hurt, she hates it and acts like it was no big deal, and gets frustrated when people try and force help on her. I know men who absolutely refuse to accept help and advice under any circumstance. I had a boyfriend who wouldn't let me carry his suitcase for him when he was really sick with glandular fever despite the fact that I was more than capable of carrying both. That was frustrating but not enough to make me want to end things. She's independent. If you're having doubts about your compatibility already, it just ain't gonna work.

[fitnessfan365]

Feminism - the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

 

My GF insists on planning some of our dates, insists on paying for some of them, likes opening her own door, and also says that she wants the control dynamic to be equal between us (except in bed). Now maybe I am missing something, but since she stresses her desire for equality in our roles of the relationship, isn't that a key aspect of feminism?

[xxoo]

I, too, know plenty of men who would have reacted the same way if someone insisted on helping them when injured. Women, too. Really, it's just a people thing, not a man/woman thing.

[Frank2thepoint]

she still has deep seated fears of allowing herself to be completely vulnerable and actually rely on someone else.

 

You were being 'human' and that turned her off.

 

If she has this deep seated fear, there isn't much you can do to help her. It's her journey. You can either be patient, support her, and endure it. Or break-up over it. But one thing I know is something like this is a big issue that will never go away. It may subside with time, and she could become a little more vulnerable. No guarantee of course.

 

 

Yes, there's also the feminist message that tells "modern" women not to rely on men to take care of them, because they'll eventually let you down, cheat on you, etc., so you're better off taking care of yourself.

 

That's awesome that these feminists have this way of thought. They are entitled to their ideals. Now it would be really great if they can get out of the dating pool permanently, and leave the rest of us that are genuinely looking for an equal.

[Grumpybutfun]

Feminism - the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

 

My GF insists on planning some of our dates, insists on paying for some of them, likes opening her own door, and also says that she wants the control dynamic to be equal between us (except in bed). Now maybe I am missing something, but since she stresses her desire for equality in our roles of the relationship, isn't that a key aspect of feminism?

 

Yes....you weren't clear that you don't believe in equality for men and women in your OP. If her need for equality isn't important to you or you find it not to your preference, move on. It sounds like you want a woman who defers to you and is submissive in and out of bed, therefore you aren't compatible. We can't change other people. Her reaction to your displays of help suggests perhaps she finds you too controlling and understands you do not want an equal partner but a submissive so she doesn't trust you. Preferences such as who controls the relationship isn't something that can be resolved if you have different beliefs in equality.

Move on,

G

[katiegrl]

I am just shaking my head at this entire scenario.

 

 

If she was sick in the hospital (for example) would she not want a male doctor either? Or how about her gynecologist? Only female? (I dunno that may be true, many women feel uncomfortable having male doctors).

 

 

Or how about, like I asked earlier (which I never rec'd an answer to), if she had been alone and fell, couldn't get up, would she not want Joe Schmo helping her? Would she say "leave me alone, I only want a FEMALE to help me"? Or would she just prefer to sit there in pain? WTF.

 

 

If so, then yeah she has issues. Not sure if that's even feminism....it's just her having issues with men IMO.

[fitnessfan365]

Yes....you weren't clear that you don't believe in equality for men and women in your OP. If her need for equality isn't important to you or you find it not to your preference, move on. It sounds like you want a woman who defers to you and is submissive in and out of bed, therefore you aren't compatible. We can't change other people. Her reaction to your displays of help suggests perhaps she finds you too controlling and understands you do not want an equal partner but a submissive so she doesn't trust you. Preferences such as who controls the relationship isn't something that can be resolved if you have different beliefs in equality.

Move on,

G

 

Actually, completely submissive women bore the crap out of me. I like the fact that my GF is feisty, sarcastic, and independent. Also, I've grown to develop a new appreciation for her wanting to plan/pay for some of our activities.

 

But my GF has always been appreciative of my masculinity and has relied on me over the course of our relationship. It wasn't until our Chicago trip that I saw her independence and need for complete and total equality go to the extreme. Anytime I'd offer advice, she wouldn't want it. Anytime I offered help, she wouldn't want it, etc.. She wanted to handle every single thing herself and even tried to lead what happened on the trip.

 

So I do want to stress that I am looking for a partner and actually enjoy the team dynamic that my GF and I have had. But not to the extreme where she develops masculine traits. That is a turn off and I never saw that in her until the trip.

[katiegrl]

I am just shaking my head at this entire scenario.

 

 

If she was sick in the hospital (for example) would she not want a male doctor either? Or how about her gynecologist? Only female? (I dunno that may be true, many women feel uncomfortable having male doctors).

 

 

Or how about, like I asked earlier (which I never rec'd an answer to), if she had been alone and fell, couldn't get up, would she not want Joe Schmo helping her? Would she say "leave me alone, I only want a FEMALE to help me"? Or would she just prefer to sit there in pain? WTF.

 

 

If so, then yeah she has issues. Not sure if that's even feminism....it's just her having issues with men IMO.

 

To add -- and her issues with men go beyond simply not wanting them to help her. She has issues with men in general, and the longer you keep dating her ff, the more you might discover this to be the case.

 

 

Again, JMO.

[xxoo]

I don't believe she refused help because feminism.

 

I do believe that you expected a certain behavior because she's a woman, and assumed that her veering from that expected behavior was due to feminism because she's a women. When really, she was just acting the way many individuals do when injured.

[fitnessfan365]

To add -- and her issues with men go beyond simply not wanting them to help her. She has issues with men in general, and the longer you keep dating her ff, the more you might discover this to be the case.

 

 

Again, JMO.

 

This is true. She's had a long list of bad dating experiences. So that's made her put up a ton of walls when it comes to romance. Also, she went through a hard childhood as I said before. So those things combined made her become REALLY independent and self reliant.

 

She's even admitted that the idea of a relationship is hard to her b/c you also have someone else's needs to take care of besides your own. However, I've seen her soften a lot and get vulnerable w/me. She's come a very long way from when I met her.

 

It's just that she seemed to regress on the trip for whatever reason. However, this was the first time where we were together 24-7 for an extended period of time. So not having that space and time to decompress other stress could have added to it.

[Grumpybutfun]

Actually, completely submissive women bore the crap out of me. I like the fact that my GF is feisty, sarcastic, and independent. Also, I've grown to develop a new appreciation for her wanting to plan/pay for some of our activities.

 

But my GF has always been appreciative of my masculinity and has relied on me over the course of our relationship. It wasn't until our Chicago trip that I was around her 24-7 for an entire week that I saw her independence and need for complete and total equality go to the extreme. Anytime I'd offer advice, she wouldn't want it. Anytime I offered help, she wouldn't want it, etc..

 

So I do want to stress that I am looking for a partner and actually enjoy the team dynamic that my GF and I have had. But not to the extreme where she develops masculine traits. That is a turn off and I never saw that in her until the trip.

 

What are the masculine traits she displayed? Obstinency? Anger? Impateince? Moodiness? Geez, thanks for giving us all the piss poor ones.

 

Honestly, from what you have written, I think she feels your need to be dominant and control and is rebelling against it. Like I said in my original post, there is something you two have not agreed on which caused her not to want to depend on you even when she is obviously in distress. If this trip made you see her differently, just in one trip you completely changed your mind about who she was based on her at her worst...Therefore, it is best to just move on because you two aren't compatible. The basic dynamic of give and take is extremely important in relationships. There is something already fundamentally broken in your dynamic. Naturally, we can't know what it is as I suspect this is something small that has built up resentment over a period of time. It is too early in your relationship IMHO to give it much more work.....since you haven't been dating very long, move on.

Good luck,

Grumps

[xxoo]

 

So I do want to stress that I am looking for a partner and actually enjoy the team dynamic that my GF and I have had. But not to the extreme where she develops masculine traits. That is a turn off and I never saw that in her until the trip.

 

 

If she has traits that you perceive as too masculine, it isn't because she's a feminist. It is because that is who she is. Not all women are conventionally feminine, just as not all men are conventionally masculine.

 

It's really ok for women to have masculine traits. It doesn't mean they don't trust men, or are out to get men. Don't take it personally. It would be as unnatural for her to adopt those conventionally feminine traits as it would be for you to adopt them. If you can't accept her, don't date her.

[katiegrl]

Actually, completely submissive women bore the crap out of me. I like the fact that my GF is feisty, sarcastic, and independent. Also, I've grown to develop a new appreciation for her wanting to plan/pay for some of our activities.

 

But my GF has always been appreciative of my masculinity and has relied on me over the course of our relationship. It wasn't until our Chicago trip that I saw her independence and need for complete and total equality go to the extreme. Anytime I'd offer advice, she wouldn't want it. Anytime I offered help, she wouldn't want it, etc.. She wanted to handle every single thing herself and even tried to lead what happened on the trip.

 

So I do want to stress that I am looking for a partner and actually enjoy the team dynamic that my GF and I have had. But not to the extreme where she develops masculine traits. That is a turn off and I never saw that in her until the trip.

 

 

ff, there has to be a happy medium. As you know, I am also very feisty and independent, however, I defer to my boyfriend's advice quite often (if I think he is right, which to be honest is most of the time).... I enjoy when he does things for me, the little things in addition to the big things, he still opens doors for me, takes my hand while walking across the street.... he is just generally protective of me and I really LOVE that.

 

 

That said, I also plan dates (and pay), give him shyt when he gets out of line (which isn't too often anymore thank god...lol), and have strong opinions.

 

 

And god forbid if I ever fell and could not get up, would have no issue at all with him helping me, I can't even imagine reacting the way she did (unless I was feeling the way I described one of my earlier posts re being mad at myself and lashing out on him). Which I would apologize for later.

 

 

So I don't know.... it's up to you. But it does sound like she's got some issues there, and after four months together, she is comfortable enough with you now to let you see them.

[katiegrl]

This is true. She's had a long list of bad dating experiences. So that's made her put up a ton of walls when it comes to romance. Also, she went through a hard childhood as I said before. So those things combined made her become REALLY independent and self reliant.

 

She's even admitted that the idea of a relationship is hard to her b/c you also have someone else's needs to take care of besides your own. However, I've seen her soften a lot and get vulnerable w/me. She's come a very long way from when I met her.

 

It's just that she seemed to regress on the trip for whatever reason. However, this was the first time where we were together 24-7 for an extended period of time. So not having that space and time to decompress other stress could have added to it.

 

Is she in therapy at all? Or ever had therapy?

[katiegrl]

 

Honestly, from what you have written, I think she feels your need to be dominant and control and is rebelling against it.

 

 

That is exactly what I suggested earlier....

[jen1447]

But my GF has always been appreciative of my masculinity and has relied on me over the course of our relationship. It wasn't until our Chicago trip that I saw her independence and need for complete and total equality go to the extreme. Anytime I'd offer advice, she wouldn't want it. Anytime I offered help, she wouldn't want it, etc.. She wanted to handle every single thing herself and even tried to lead what happened on the trip.

 

I'm sure that was totally unrelated to anything. She just randomly started acting totally opposed to her established behavior. It's normal for ppl to exhibit sudden and extreme behavioral deviations like that.

[smackie9]

What bothers me the most are guys using the word "feminist" to describe negative behavior in women.