Hardcore feminst and too independent

[BlueIris]

This sounds pretty cynical to me. I mean when you see a person you care about w/a possible broken ankle that can't even stand up and is crying tears of pain, it would be cruel to just stand there and watch that happen. So for me, it has nothing to do w/control at all. It's just being a decent human being to help someone in need.

 

But I didn't say to just stand there.

I've had BFs who were hurt and didn't want me to rush in. I may have started in, and they responded, so I asked HOW I could help. They really liked that, and appreciated it. To use an extreme example for illustrative purposes, I had one BF who pushed his way into my business, including once when I was in lots of pain. I wanted to handle it one way and he not only wanted me to handle it another way, but got ticked at me that I wouldn't do what he wanted me to.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion and you certainly don't have to consider it.

But it seems a bit overreactive and overly emotional to call someone a hardcore feminist and controlling because she wanted to handle her twisted ankle the way she wanted to.

I'm kind of chuckling at the name-calling in this thread.

[losangelena]

I'm kind of chuckling at the name-calling in this thread.

 

Same, though I'm not chuckling so much as wanting to scream.

[mrldii]

Feminism = the belief in the economic, social, and political equality of the sexes.

 

Not seeing where someone (male or female) who is a control freak equates to that same someone (male or female) being a feminist.

 

 

Cool wording to bring out the gender-bashers who've arrived right on cue, though.

 

 

Your girlfriend, for whatever reason (right or wrong, legit or made-up), doesn't want to be coddled by her man. You, for whatever reason (right or wrong, legit or made-up), like doing for your woman.

 

Reads like you two will either find a workable compromise and work it out, or not and go your separate ways, due to incompatibility. No need to assign labels ("feminist", "traditional", "feminazi") to it when deciding if you two can find enough common ground to be together happily everafter, though.

 

 

Best of luck to you, OP...

[losangelena]

Cool wording to bring out the gender-bashers who've arrived right on cue, though.

 

[Jejangles]

Agree with the others who said it, this has nothing to do with feminism and everything to do with high barriers and a woman who is used to taking care of herself.

 

If you decide the relationship is worth continuing, I think a conversation is in order, where you can make it clear that you would appreciate it if she accepted your help a little more, and that while you know she can take care of herself, you feel more loved and wanted when you are able to provide some care. Then see how she responds.

[d0nnivain]

FitnessFan

 

Welcome home.

 

I agree that you have to tell her that her staunch stand is off putting & feels like rejection. Pitch it to her as team building. While she is certainly capable of taking care of herself together you are stronger.

 

As an independent woman I struggled giving up "perceived control" to DH when we got married. It took a while for go from me to we.

 

Don't dump her for being afraid because while she took it to almost the point of being rude, part of it is fear. Help her learn to trust.

[ManyDissapoint]

Nice censorship.

[cessna]

Feminism = the belief in the economic, social, and political equality of the sexes.

 

Not seeing where someone (male or female) who is a control freak equates to that same someone (male or female) being a feminist.

 

 

Cool wording to bring out the gender-bashers who've arrived right on cue, though.

 

 

Your girlfriend, for whatever reason (right or wrong, legit or made-up), doesn't want to be coddled by her man. You, for whatever reason (right or wrong, legit or made-up), like doing for your woman.

 

Reads like you two will either find a workable compromise and work it out, or not and go your separate ways, due to incompatibility. No need to assign labels ("feminist", "traditional", "feminazi") to it when deciding if you two can find enough common ground to be together happily everafter, though.

 

 

Best of luck to you, OP...

 

Except it doesn't really mean that, does it.

 

Feminism these days is all about thinking women are superior to men. Nothing to do with equality.

 

If you are a woman in the west you have never faced oppression. End of.

[Guyouthere]

Feminists are good at doing that. Remember, men are terrible people who partake in the rape culture and oppression of women...

 

 

I am giving you a break, but also saying it as it is…

 

And it is obvious.,,,

 

His intentions were nothing more than wanting to help her, which I admire he does.

 

And so will any good woman in her right mind will see that and appreciate it.

 

And if any woman wants to label this instance as "control", she has major issues herself. The guy is perfectly right here.

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited quote ~6

[mrldii]

Except it doesn't really mean that, does it.

 

Feminism these days is all about thinking women are superior to men. Nothing to do with equality.

 

If you are a woman in the west you have never faced oppression. End of.

 

 

No, it really does mean that. Ergo, it can't - by its mere definition - mean that "women are superior to men".

 

I am a "woman in the west". I have experienced - and continue to experience - "oppression". Examples and avenues of that "oppression" become more and more pronounced and evident the closer we get to the general elections, which are held every four years.

[losangelena]

Except it doesn't really mean that, does it.

 

Feminism these days is all about thinking women are superior to men. Nothing to do with equality.

 

If you are a woman in the west you have never faced oppression. End of.

 

I'm not trying to be a pedantic know-it-all by saying this, but what you're describing is misandry (which totally exists, by the way) not feminism.

 

In FF's case, it doesn't sound like his GF is exhibiting either one of those things, it's just that she has a bad case of control and trust issues is all.

[menyou]

You can help me with my bag. Lol

[cessna]

I'm not trying to be a pedantic know-it-all by saying this, but what you're describing is misandry (which totally exists, by the way) not feminism.

 

In FF's case, it doesn't sound like his GF is exhibiting either one of those things, it's just that she has a bad case of control and trust issues is all.

 

I know and understand that the definition of feminism is equality between both sexes what I'm saying is that I don't believe that's what feminism means or stands for anymore. I totally support equality between the sexes and in the west we have that.

 

If anything, with all the bull**** positive discrimination that is around in the west these days it's probably men that are more oppressed.

[fitnessfan365]

I'm going to say the real issue here is that she's not willing to allow herself to be vulnerable.

 

The key to intimacy is vulnerability. Of course (I'd assume), you would like to know that she trusts you.

 

Deep trust can lead to surrender, which can lead to profound intimacy. Of course, the hardcore feminists don't like it.

 

I still work, I still have to fend for myself as a self-respecting person (neglecting your own survival needs points to other psychological issues), I will never stop continuing my education... but trust between a man and a woman isn't something to throw away in light of all these social changes and privileges.

 

There is definitely some hardcore social engineering out there to encourage women to throw away their vulnerability (IMHO, one of the greatest assets in building a rich and rewarding relationship)... and the irony is, that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Women are biologically built to be softer and more sensitive than men, and it's a gift; there's no sense in throwing away the sanctity of the feminine essence in the battle for equal rights. It's a Pyrrhic defeat.

 

But I digress. tl;dr vulnerability is KEY to intimacy. She can have her rights, but if she enforces them in such a way that it obstructs intimacy, it makes it difficult for you to have a real relationship. She's either on that page or she's not.

 

Such a GREAT post. I've always said that the major appeal of the Dom/sub lifestyle is the trust and intimacy that develops. It's never been about "control" for me. Knowing that a woman needs you and that you being there makes her feel safe, is the best feeling in the world. Then in turn, her femininity is very attractive.

 

Here's what ironic. She's told me about past relationships. Her main complaints were that they never planned anything, and basically let her run the show in/out of bed. So being a Dom is ultimately what made her unhappy. She wants a guy like me and this has shown in how happy I make her and sexually attracted she is. But, she still has deep seated fears of allowing herself to be completely vulnerable and actually rely on someone else. That's why I've actually said to her multiple times that she's at war w/herself. She's even admitted that she doesn't get it. She says the same qualities that frustrate her about me from time to time, are the same ones that draw her to me.

 

So who I am is ultimately what she wants, it's just unnatural to her b/c she's so used to being extremely self reliant and having things on her terms. One of my biggest flaws is impatience. Since I care about her, that's why I'm really working on being patient and realizing that a whole lifetime of walls can't be broken over night.

[cessna]

No, it really does mean that. Ergo, it can't - by its mere definition - mean that "women are superior to men".

 

I am a "woman in the west". I have experienced - and continue to experience - "oppression". Examples and avenues of that "oppression" become more and more pronounced and evident the closer we get to the general elections, which are held every four years.

 

How have you been oppressed? I simply don't believe you.

[losangelena]

I know and understand that the definition of feminism is equality between both sexes what I'm saying is that I don't believe that's what feminism means or stands for anymore. I totally support equality between the sexes and in the west we have that.

 

If anything, with all the bull**** positive discrimination that is around in the west these days it's probably men that are more oppressed.

 

I would reply to some of this but it would be getting too far off the topic of this thread.

[Oregon_Dude]

All Western women are now "feminists", but still want you to pay, and boss them around in bed.

 

I don't mind. If you can handle the inherent contradictions, play on.

[losangelena]

So who I am is ultimately what she wants, it's just unnatural to her b/c she's so used to being extremely self reliant and having things on her terms. One of my biggest flaws is impatience. Since I care about her, that's why I'm really working on being patient and realizing that a whole lifetime of walls can't be broken over night.

 

Well I for one am glad you can see how both of your weak points are rubbing up against each and that you're willing to give it some time. Would hate to have seen you jettison the entire relationship over it.

[mrldii]

How have you been oppressed? I simply don't believe you.

 

Start a thread about it; I'll be happy to share with you examples of "oppression" within my (thus-far) 55-year span in this country. Other "wom[e]n in the west" may join in, too.

 

 

No doubt you still won't believe us, but we'll be happy to share, anyway.

[cessna]

Start a thread about it; I'll be happy to share with you examples of "oppression" within my (thus-far) 55-year span in this country. Other "wom[e]n in the west" may join in, too.

 

 

No doubt you still won't believe us, but we'll be happy to share, anyway.

 

Sounds like fun. I'll post a new thread now then.

[fitnessfan365]

Well I for one am glad you can see how both of your weak points are rubbing up against each and that you're willing to give it some time. Would hate to have seen you jettison the entire relationship over it.

 

Well the trip definitely tested one of my other flaws. I tend to hold onto things for awhile. I've always been envious of people who can just move on quickly. So when we'd argue on the trip, I did my best to really see her POV and understand where she was coming from. This helped me squash things quickly which I was happy w/actually.

 

Also, we see each other 3-4x a week in general. So we always have space to decompress. But when you're living together for a week and around each other 24-7, it can add tension to the mix. Little things like feeling off from junk food (we usually eat pretty clean), having to walk 10-12 miles per day, not being familiar w/the city, etc can lead to bigger arguments and underlying issues. Unlike having space away from each other to have your best foot forward every time you see each other.

[Ruby Slippers]

Due to bad dating experiences and a rougher childhood, she's had to rely on herself for everything. It's what she's known basically her whole life. So it scares the crap out of her to rely on someone else.

I relate to this very well. It wasn't until about mid-30s that I was really able to relax and trust a man enough to really lean on him. Before that, I had a deep-seated fear that even if I was able to rely on a man for a while, eventually he'd let me down. I think this is primarily because I had an incompetent father I couldn't rely on for anything. Now I've figured out that nobody's perfect, and they don't have to be.

 

Yes, there's also the feminist message that tells "modern" women not to rely on men to take care of them, because they'll eventually let you down, cheat on you, etc., so you're better off taking care of yourself. I've never defined myself as a feminist, but it's unavoidable that every Western woman of our time receives and absorbs some of those messages.

 

It can take a long time to deprogram the social engineering messages and emotional patterns from a difficult upbringing. Your girlfriend isn't going to change overnight. And the fact is she may never change, or may change only marginally.

 

So you're either going to accept and love her as she is, as a work in progress, or choose a different partner who is more to your liking as she is now.

 

Try not to be resentful and take it personally. I would argue that women like us need a strong, reliable man more than most. Even though your girlfriend resists leaning on you, she needs it.

 

I think the best thing you can do is let her do her thing, and then be there to catch her when she inevitably does fall from time to time. The best men I had relationships with in my 20s handled me this way. They appreciated my strength and independence, and pounced on any chance to be my hero and rescue me. Deep down, I loved it when they did.

[losangelena]

Well the trip definitely tested one of my other flaws. I tend to hold onto things for awhile. I've always been envious of people who can just move on quickly. So when we'd argue on the trip, I did my best to really see her POV and understand where she was coming from. This helped me squash things quickly which I was happy w/actually.

 

Also, we see each other 3-4x a week in general. So we always have space to decompress. But when you're living together for a week and around each other 24-7, it can add tension to the mix. Little things like feeling off from junk food (we usually eat pretty clean), having to walk 10-12 miles per day, not being familiar w/the city, etc can lead to bigger arguments and underlying issues. Unlike having space away from each other to have your best foot forward every time you see each other.

 

Oh, first trips can reveal a lot, I think. I was honestly surprised when my ex and I went to Cancun/Miami and we DIDN'T get on each others' nerves.

 

That being said, I bet her reaction after her fall, and your reaction to her reaction, were probably exacerbated by any tension that had been building with such constant togetherness.

 

But I think everything needs to be put into context. I mean (and I think you know this), NO relationship will ever be free of hurt feelings, disappointments, un-met expectations and differences of opinion.

[BlueIris]

What losangelena said is so true. Travelling together can bring things to light.

 

FF, something more must have happened that her twisted ankle and the way she handled it would lead you to be so upset and condemning as to slap a label on her. You know all of her good points and why you’ve wanted to be with her for a year. There must be so much good between you two. People who want to be together and find a way to do it bend some instead of breaking. This is a great opportunity to shift to be closer.

[Diezel]

It depends on the issue and it depends on the person learning to cope with it. He obviously likes her, so it's worth talking about. Shoot, if you just up and left every person that acted strange without knowing the reason...your dating pool would be empty.

 

I'd rather my dating pool be empty than to waste my time with people that I knew weren't going to fit my standards.

 

Age and experience have proven that time and time again.

 

And this forum does well in that scenario as well. Look at how many people are willing to put up with red flags and later down the road end up saying, "I should have seen it sooner".

 

Ask people as they age and date, how much less tolerant they are about specific markers within the dating pool. You'll be shocked.