fitnessfan365 Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 My GF and I just had our first vacation together in Chicago. GREAT city and a lot of fun. But it did put some doubt in my mind. I've always known she was independent and a bit of a feminist. But until this trip, I had no idea just how extreme it was. She never wanted to take my advice..on anything. She never wanted my help..on anything. On activities, she'd constantly try to dictate which way we went, what I should look at, or walk out in front of me to try and lead. Two extreme cases : 1) She had a NASTY fall @ the Lincoln Park Zoo. Her ankle might actually be broken. Knowing she won't be able to stand, I go to help her up to take weight off it. She refuses. I insist. She keeps telling me to leave her alone. So I finally say "You're hurt. So shut up and let me help you". She finally relents, and after I get her to her feet, I put her arm over my shoulder to take even more weight off to get to the nearest bench. She fights me the whole way. 2) Coming home on the plane, she was in front of me in the boarding line. Hobbling along. So I say "Sit down and rest babe. I'll put your bag up with mine. She insists on doing it herself. Then she tries to take my bag out of my hands and put mine up too. So I say "No thanks, I can handle my own bag". This of course lead to an argument on the plane. She admitted that she's never wanted to be submissive to any man except in bed for anything, and never wants to have to depend on one at all. Then she asked if I found that unattractive, I was honest and admitted that it kind of was. That we're in a relationship, and she has to be able to rely on her man for things sometimes. That there is no shame in it. She then said 'I don't want to ever give up control". Now as people on here know, I'm old fashioned and like traditional gender roles for the most part even though I appreciate compromise and an independent woman. But if she is so independent and such a feminist, it makes me doubt how we'd be long term.
Author fitnessfan365 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Posted September 24, 2015 So what? Let her do her own thing. You mustn't baby her. I think that "baby her" is a bit extreme when she has a possible broken ankle and can't stand up. I mean what should I do, just sit back and watch her struggle and walk? Or on the plane, when she is hobbling and can barely move, watch her try to put weight on her foot to tip toe to reach the overhead bin? So, is there a question here? Can a man that likes a traditional relationship survive in a relationship with an extremely independent and feminist woman? There are definite benefits. I like that she offers date ideas and pays some of the time. It takes pressure off of me feeling like an entertainment director and she's not treating me like an ATM. But part of what makes a man feel special and appreciated is when his woman needs his help and has to rely on him some of the time.
Diezel Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 I mean what should I do, just sit back and watch her struggle and walk? Or on the plane, when she is hobbling and can barely move, watch her try to put weight on her foot to tip toe to reach the overhead bin? You do exactly that. If she's one of those, you let her be one of those. I once had a girl tell me that she could open her own doors and didn't like what I was "insinuating". Same girl asked me two weeks later if I could shovel her car out of the snow, I responded by saying she could do that on her own and I didn't like what she was insinuating. You can't help someone who doesn't want any, so let them struggle on their own til they feel stupid enough to ask for help. 3
empresario Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Always ask what the real problem may be. Is it that she has deep-seeded feminist roots? Probably not. That sounds like a symptom, not a problem. Have you tried to ask 'why' and 'what is the real problem' enough times to figure out why she hates to relinquish control? It may give some insight to the viability of a long-term relationship. 4
Diezel Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Have you tried to ask 'why' and 'what is the real problem' enough times to figure out why she hates to relinquish control? It may give some insight to the viability of a long-term relationship. That sounds like too much work. I'd just ditch the relationship. I can find someone else who isn't going to be THAT stubborn. I'd just feel like I'd be dating another man. My girlfriend IS independent and suggests date ideas and pays sometimes, but she also knows to let a man be a man. I'd rather find that person. If that's how she reacts to a broken ankle, imagine how she reacts to much smaller issues.
Ami1uwant Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 You need to sit down and have a talk....in a relationship one of the benefits is to support each other. This isn't about being in control or dependent but instead working together.
Author fitnessfan365 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Posted September 24, 2015 Always ask what the real problem may be. Is it that she has deep-seeded feminist roots? Probably not. That sounds like a symptom, not a problem. Have you tried to ask 'why' and 'what is the real problem' enough times to figure out why she hates to relinquish control? It may give some insight to the viability of a long-term relationship. Due to bad dating experiences and a rougher childhood, she's had to rely on herself for everything. It's what she's known basically her whole life. So it scares the crap out of her to rely on someone else. I'm really torn. Part of me really likes her independence and how she wants to help me out w/things. It makes it feel like we're a team and how much she cares makes me feel great. I just want to be able to reciprocate that. I mean it's great having a submissive woman in bed. But part of the appeal of a woman that has submissive tendencies in general is that it makes a man feel appreciated and gives him the ability to support her. If she insists on doing everything on her own, it makes me feel pretty useless which in turn leads to resentment on my part.
losangelena Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 I think I would not equate "feminist" and "needing control," as those are two different things. Some people have trouble accepting help. That's a deeper issue that just being an independent person. It sounds like it's probably rooted in some kind of shame for her. I agree with empresario, that there's something underlying behind this. I would consider myself to be both feminist and independent, but I would not have trouble accepting help to walk on a broken foot or putting up a bag. That also being said, some people, when either sick or injured, don't want to be touch or bothered. That I think is a more primal reaction. That plus, she's probably not used to being in a compromised state, and the stress of her injury is kind of a raw nerve atm. I'd try and discuss it once she's feeling a bit better. My guess is she'll apologize for being snippy/bitchy. 11
Guyouthere Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Leave and cut your losses. These types of women are not relationship material. For whatever the reason, and there is at least one somewhere in her past, she has the idea that a lot of other women in todays culture have,, the idea that "I don't need a man". Thats also against basic human nature as well as nature itself. It is flawed thinking, and I see a lot of it out there now and believe it a result of todays conditioning of women as a whole.,.. and part of the larger picture of destroying the family unit. I find that sad, but it is very pronounced out there now, and unfortunately so many women will fall for it, and it only leads to a lonely life in the end. They will and can have a lot of material things, but none of them will give them what they are made for, and that is the love of a man. Many women seek out their own "independence" at a cost, and don't realize it, because it is so alluring, they can't help but ignore the lie. To be honest, she is one, and she has made it clear to you that she is. You will never be happy because you are like I am in a relationship, wanting to give the woman the best, but truly some can't appreciate it at all. 5
losangelena Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 I'm really torn. Part of me really likes her independence and how she wants to help me out w/things. It makes it feel like we're a team and how much she cares makes me feel great. I just want to be able to reciprocate that. I mean it's great having a submissive woman in bed. But part of the appeal of a woman that has submissive tendencies in general is that it makes a man feel appreciated and gives him the ability to support her. If she insists on doing everything on her own, it makes me feel pretty useless which in turn leads to resentment on my part. Well, this is once instance in a year-long relationship. I would talk about it and see how it goes before pulling the plug.
BlueIris Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 It sounds as though if the two of you want to stay to together you’ll respect and even appreciate your differences and are happy to change a bit to make it work. One thing to look at when you have a conflict is which person is telling the other person what to do or how to be. That’s the core of being controlling- who is wanting the other person to be what they want? Ironically, and even though she says she wants to control her life, you were the one who wanted her to do what you wanted. So really, you were being the controller in that situation. You wanted her to handle her twisted ankle the way you wanted her to. She wanted to handle her twisted ankle the way she wanted to. So maybe add that to your assessment of the dynamic between you and see if you could have done something differently, or even if you’d want to handle it differently, such as by saying, “Oh sweetie! Can I help you?!” Is that a dynamic you'd be ok with? 1
Gaeta Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 To me that's not being independent and a feminist, that's being a control freak. Doesn't matter how she grew up to be a control freak, she is still one and it's very ugly. 4
Author fitnessfan365 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Posted September 24, 2015 So really, you were being the controller in that situation. You wanted her to handle her twisted ankle the way you wanted her to. She wanted to handle her twisted ankle the way she wanted to. This sounds pretty cynical to me. I mean when you see a person you care about w/a possible broken ankle that can't even stand up and is crying tears of pain, it would be cruel to just stand there and watch that happen. So for me, it has nothing to do w/control at all. It's just being a decent human being to help someone in need. 2
empresario Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 That sounds like too much work. I'd just ditch the relationship. I can find someone else who isn't going to be THAT stubborn. I'd just feel like I'd be dating another man. My girlfriend IS independent and suggests date ideas and pays sometimes, but she also knows to let a man be a man. I'd rather find that person. If that's how she reacts to a broken ankle, imagine how she reacts to much smaller issues. I've learned in life that some people are only cracked, not broken. Every situation is unique. The sum of their experiences. Just because they may have some **** in the rear-view mirror doesn't make them forever tarnished. It depends on the issue and it depends on the person learning to cope with it. He obviously likes her, so it's worth talking about. Shoot, if you just up and left every person that acted strange without knowing the reason...your dating pool would be empty. 1
blackcat777 Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 I'm going to say the real issue here is that she's not willing to allow herself to be vulnerable. The key to intimacy is vulnerability. Of course (I'd assume), you would like to know that she trusts you. Deep trust can lead to surrender, which can lead to profound intimacy. Of course, the hardcore feminists don't like it. I still work, I still have to fend for myself as a self-respecting person (neglecting your own survival needs points to other psychological issues), I will never stop continuing my education... but trust between a man and a woman isn't something to throw away in light of all these social changes and privileges. There is definitely some hardcore social engineering out there to encourage women to throw away their vulnerability (IMHO, one of the greatest assets in building a rich and rewarding relationship)... and the irony is, that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Women are biologically built to be softer and more sensitive than men, and it's a gift; there's no sense in throwing away the sanctity of the feminine essence in the battle for equal rights. It's a Pyrrhic defeat. But I digress. tl;dr vulnerability is KEY to intimacy. She can have her rights, but if she enforces them in such a way that it obstructs intimacy, it makes it difficult for you to have a real relationship. She's either on that page or she's not. 1
cessna Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 As much as I hate feminists and feminism this really doesn't seem to be a case of either. She just sounds like she's stubbornly independent for no real reason. If I fell and possibly broke my ankle I'd expect my girlfriend to give me a hand, I don't really see why anyone of any gender would be so against that. Either way, by what you've said about her I think she would drive me mad. Up to you though mate. You're the only one who can make the call.
Guyouthere Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 It sounds as though if the two of you want to stay to together you’ll respect and even appreciate your differences and are happy to change a bit to make it work. One thing to look at when you have a conflict is which person is telling the other person what to do or how to be. That’s the core of being controlling- who is wanting the other person to be what they want? Ironically, and even though she says she wants to control her life, you were the one who wanted her to do what you wanted. So really, you were being the controller in that situation. You wanted her to handle her twisted ankle the way you wanted her to. She wanted to handle her twisted ankle the way she wanted to. So maybe add that to your assessment of the dynamic between you and see if you could have done something differently, or even if you’d want to handle it differently, such as by saying, “Oh sweetie! Can I help you?!” Is that a dynamic you'd be ok with? What I find very disturbing here,,, HONESTLY….. is that you can and will find a reason to BLAME a guy for caring,,, making him feel like he is at fault for caring about her, even going to the length of labeling him as controlling 1
blackcat777 Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 I wanted to add, it takes strength to be soft. It's so much easier to get angry and blame something, rather than to face one's emotions honestly, cry, and say, "This hurts me." I think socially, women are being engineered away from this. But it is PRECISELY that vulnerability men are also biologically designed to fall for. The damsel in distress trope is not a joke; it's a deeply embedded part of the male psyche. Every man wants to be a hero. Women who insist on doing everything for themselves never allow their man a chance to shine. He can feel isolated, emasculated, or defeated. 2
jen1447 Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 There's two sides to every story FF (usually 3 actually), so how about telling us hers? The way you're making it sound, she's Hillary Clinton's sergeant at arms in The Man-Hater Club. I find that pretty hard to believe. So were you actually more overbearing than you're letting on here? Maybe she was tense bc you were espousing your beliefs on gender roles earlier? Etc., etc. 3
ManyDissapoint Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 This isn't about feminism at all. She admitted that she's never wanted to be submissive to any man except in bed for anything Oops. Yes it is about feminism. Not to say that she doesn't have the deep rooted control issues as LA laydee was saying. My ex was just like this. I don't consider myself amazing at a lot of different things. But I'm an excellent swimmer. She could not bear to have me teach her how to swim. I felt so happy to be able to help her with something, and when she shut me down, the little twinkle in my eye was extinguished. Looks like OP is now dating my ex, lol. At least in a spiritual sense.
cessna Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) What I find very disturbing here,,, HONESTLY….. is that you can and will find a reason to BLAME a guy for caring,,, making him feel like he is at fault for caring about her, even going to the length of labeling him as controlling Feminists are good at doing that. Remember, men are terrible people who partake in the rape culture and oppression of women... Edited September 25, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Language ~6
road Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) OP, she is an extreme Feminist. I do not think that you are wrong in feeling the way that you do. Remember dating is the job interview for marriage. During the interview you always only the interviewee showing you their best side. Well you have seen her best so do you still want to marry her? I say no for you two do not share enough basic values. Edited September 24, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator language ~T 1
blackcat777 Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 For some reason, I can't edit my posts right now, but I wanted to add that there is a reason Captain America turns me on. (I decided to allow myself to be vulnerable and express this to my boyfriend; he may dress up like Loki for my birthday. Upward spirals created by intimacy *thumbs up* ) What about your girlfriend's past? I did have a rough time growing up and it took a long time for me to open to trusting someone... and how to learn how to handle my emotions, to express vulnerability, in a healthy way.
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