Friends into more....???

[leafguy]

Forgive me guys but not sure where it goes. Had one of my friends over after she sort of texted me out of the blue. We have been friends since grade 9 and we are now late 20s. We talk very regularily...at least every other day for a few minutes but it picked up a bit more the past few weeks.

 

There has always been chemistry and sexual tension hanging out when we were both single. She had always held back because of the friendship thing.

 

I can with all certainty say I love this girl and she knows that I care for her more than a friend. Anyways long story short she came over for a hot tub and she is usually one to leave right a movie or any other plans. She ended up staying over to watch the game and got very cuddly. One thing led to another and we hooked up.

 

I guess my question is why the sudden change in demeanor. She has been burned alot and I know she knows I am reliable and safe. She also stated she wants to see what is there. Any advice for how to take things other than slow? Anyone with similar experiences and results?

We talked about everything last night when she got home and the awkward first time seems to be good with both of us

 

Sorry for the long post but any feedback is appreciated

[kendahke]

Really, the only advice there is is to take things slowly and keep the lines of communication open and keep your expectations in check. Don't expect more out of her than your involvement with her so far has legs to support.

[leafguy]

Thanks for the reply Kendahke.

 

I really have no expectations at this point. I know her very well, but I have no idea about her romantically at all. I think I would like to get her out on a date very soon to see what that is like, but it all still feels very foreign after being friends for so long.

 

It is a good foreign mind you, but courting her and being her friend are two very different things when one is already very well established.

[Versacehottie]

I know several good relationships that started this way. One of my friends just married a guy who had been one of her best guy friends. They are really happy. It just was a little awkward right at the beginning. Not for any other reason than figuring out how to transition. And being so open with each other in some ways and now being in a dating situation. Like yours, they had to have some upfront conversations in first weeks that normal dating couples don't really have to have to navigate the switch. From the couples I know this way, I would highly recommend. As for your girl, sometimes it just takes a while for a girl to realize the best guy for her has been right there all along. Just be a little cautious that she is not "leaning" on you because of her dating failures. I tend to think positively. I think people are try to be careful if it means blowing up a friendship. At least the ones I've seen with firsthand experience. Good luck.

[leafguy]

Thx Versacehottie,

 

Akward was definitely the feeling. Not in a horribly bad way, just I guess that new feeling of already knowing someone very well that I want to date. And I agree it is going to be weird transitioning.

 

I am hoping she has realized that I am the best one for her, but I definitely agree that I need to be cautious. Blowing up the friendship for sure has scared her in the past and could possibly still scare her going forward. We both definitely have a lot to process, but her more so than me. We could have hooked up after college and didn't, prior to her last relationship and didn't because she was scared as well.

 

Now that she got hurt again and has healed, maybe she sees there is more? Either way, given the events that happened, things have definitely changed with last night.

 

I definitely am looking forward to finding out the romantic side of things with her, that is for sure. On that note...any ideas for asking her out next? Was thinking dinner and/or a walk by the lake to just talk and enjoy an actual date.

Edited September 25, 2015 by leafguy

[Versacehottie]

Thx Versacehottie,

 

Akward was definitely the feeling. Not in a horribly bad way, just I guess that new feeling of already knowing someone very well that I want to date. And I agree it is going to be weird transitioning.

 

I am hoping she has realized that I am the best one for her, but I definitely agree that I need to be cautious. Blowing up the friendship for sure has scared her in the past and could possibly still scare her going forward. We both definitely have a lot to process, but her more so than me. We could have hooked up after college and didn't, prior to her last relationship and didn't because she was scared as well.

 

Now that she got hurt again and has healed, maybe she sees there is more? Either way, given the events that happened, things have definitely changed with last night.

 

I definitely am looking forward to finding out the romantic side of things with her, that is for sure.

 

Well another thing to consider of "why" she may not have been ready to go there with you until now---is that with a good, close friend that you are willing to cross the line with, you already know the stakes are huge and the potential is huge, like LTR or marriage. So you wouldn't cross that line with him until personally you are close to being ready for a real serious relationship. This is something I would do so putting myself in her shoes. In other words, I would date more frivolously when I knew I wasn't "ready" with guys that it didn't matter one way or another. Then with someone that it DID matter, I would just wait until I was ready for a serious relationship since a lot is at stake. I hope it works out for you. One of my best friends is with a guy who was a close friend for years and she raves about it. They have a great relationship. As do the others as I said.

 

I think what's hard with the friends thing is that with other guys who you don't know and are just getting to know--the whole uncertainty provides excitement that you transfer to the relationship during the beginning bonding stages. With someone you already are familiar with sometimes that is missing or feels more hollow than it would with a "new" person. But in the long run, all of the friends I mentioning that ended up with friends seem to have the most connected and deepest relationship. Like with all of them I feel it's a forever thing.

[leafguy]

Versace,

 

I never thought of it that way and that could be the case with the LTR thing. I honestly have no idea though. I also agree with your assessment of the new dating thing. Not sure how to really approach it at all. Kind of just going to wing it.

 

As you said, getting to know someone is part of the whole dating experience. Romancing a girl Ive known for this long is completely different. Im looking forward to it, but at the same time, part of me worries that she backs off and rules it a mistake, despite the game being changed to speak with the hook up.

 

As far the dating part...should I treat this like dating any other new girl...talk to her once every couple days? Let her come to me? Taking it slow is about the thing I have to go on.

Edited September 26, 2015 by leafguy

[Maggie4]

I think you've got the right idea to court her, ask her out on a real date. Something romantic. It should be somewhat different from what you used to do. Maybe fancier restaurant, flowers, etc. This is the kind of thing you'll remember when you're 80 and still together. Ah.. I'm a sucker for romance.

Taking it slow doesn't mean ignoring her. If you don't show some attentiveness after you hooked up that night, she might regret the whole thing.

[Versacehottie]

Versace,

 

I never thought of it that way and that could be the case with the LTR thing. I honestly have no idea though. I also agree with your assessment of the new dating thing. Not sure how to really approach it at all. Kind of just going to wing it.

 

As you said, getting to know someone is part of the whole dating experience. Romancing a girl Ive known for this long is completely different. Im looking forward to it, but at the same time, part of me worries that she backs off and rules it a mistake, despite the game being changed to speak with the hook up.

 

As far the dating part...should I treat this like dating any other new girl...talk to her once every couple days? Let her come to me? Taking it slow is about the thing I have to go on.

 

Well if she views it as a mistake at some point, you've both already crossed into that territory, so you might as well give your best to the dating aspect and see what happens so you don't have any regrets. I think treating it the same way as you would any girl you were dating in terms of how often to contact is best. Whatever you do, don't do less than you did as friends!!!

 

All of my friends that were friends before and now couples, were in very REGULAR contact before they hooked up, like every day or every other day AND multiple times a day. Several of them worked together, so even during the uncertain stages, they had to see each other every day. A couple of those didn't start exactly smoothly either. However, once they truly decided to go for the relationship, all the couples were pretty inseparable because they were already best friends in some ways. Maybe in your case, it doesn't sound like you were already in every day contact?

 

My personal belief is that you should be the guy. And that you will get farther being more alpha and acting sure and confident of what you want, regardless of whether she told you previously that she had doubts. Don't harp on that. That was the past. Right now she is giving you green light. Confidence will be your best friend. Letting her come to you is either going to display disinterest or insecurity or letting her run the show--none of which are attractive. You hooked up and now are dating so proceed as if that's exactly what she wants to be doing.

 

The only thing I would do in an alpha role (hate the word but it applies) is tell her as you ARE pursuing her and being the guy leader that you acknowledge the transition might be a little odd for both of you and get her feedback on what she thinks in terms of pacing. She might say slow is best for her. So see what I'm saying to do is confidently and inclusively find out what the best pace for you both would be by talking about it. Don't guess "slow" and make a big error. Don't default to being passive.

 

The biggest benefit of already being friends is that open communication is easier than with any new stranger you are dating---at least that has been my dating guy friends experience vs. other guys. And because you need to navigate the transition together, you define a lot of the things about what you want out of the relationship vs other regular couples who tend to fly blind. I think sometimes "friends" will say let's go slow but then it truthfully progresses way faster than that and way faster than other dating relationships.

[leafguy]

Thanks for your input Maggie.

 

One of my best female friends suggested a date and giving her a single rose which I think is a fantastic idea. Reason I am a bit concerned over things I guess right now is it seems very fragile. We talked about things the same night, and I got the "she wants to see what is there." I assured her we would take it slow.

 

Versace,

 

To touch on your point, we would typically message maybe two days a week. It had never been a friendship where daily contact was required. It just short of changed the last few weeks where we would chat every day / every other day (albeit only a few messages). On that note, I did not receive a response from her tonight, but we both have busy weekends.

 

I will definitely heed your's and Maggie's advice and ask her out again this weekend and try and set up an actual date where she can feel wanted and that she will be treated the way she deserves....sunset walk on the beach perhaps. I have no issue being the alpha, so maybe I should just tell her we are going out again next week

[Versacehottie]

Thanks for your input Maggie.

 

One of my best female friends suggested a date and giving her a single rose which I think is a fantastic idea. Reason I am a bit concerned over things I guess right now is it seems very fragile. We talked about things the same night, and I got the "she wants to see what is there." I assured her we would take it slow.

 

Versace,

 

To touch on your point, we would typically message maybe two days a week. It had never been a friendship where daily contact was required. It just short of changed the last few weeks where we would chat every day / every other day (albeit only a few messages). On that note, I did not receive a response from her tonight, but we both have busy weekends.

 

I will definitely heed your's and Maggie's advice and ask her out again this weekend and try and set up an actual date where she can feel wanted and that she will be treated the way she deserves....sunset walk on the beach perhaps. I have no issue being the alpha, so maybe I should just tell her we are going out again next week

 

Well I think you need to be true to how YOU would date any girl. I love flowers but I'm not sure how I would take it a single red rose from a previous friend on our first real date. I guess good if I wasn't on fence. I don't like that she didn't reply to you last night. I hope she did this am. I'd be cautious of that kind of stuff. I don't have a better word than alpha in my previous post. But in my experience they don't TELL you what to do and are not arrogant/demanding (though some can be/it's not a mutually exclusive thing). The way I meant it was just not to take the passive role. That is not attractive. Go after what you want by asking CONFIDENTLY for it. Be respectful but not afraid to show your interest. The kind of guy I'm talking about is "sure" or is a good enough actor to act like he is sure that contact from him will be a good thing!! Some guy just did it to me at the gas station yesterday in hitting on me. He really wasn't my league (not to be cocky myself but for a variety of reasons which I won't go into) but he sure acted like he was and was very bold and confident with his personality even though a couple times I'm pretty sure I heard his voice crack. Anyway, that in itself made him more attractive. It was really cute and adorable. He acted like there was no reason in the world that I wouldn't give him my number or go out with him, in the best of ways. If I was in position to give him a chance, he definitely was very convincing.

[leafguy]

She did reply this morning. I asked her out this afternoon for mid week as we both had plans for the weekend (Wednesday or Thursday). Got a reply within an hour saying sure and she will let me know what day works better early in the week. She isn't one for small talk via text, so it was a quick one back.

 

Versace,

 

With your friends, do you happen to recall how often they were seeing each other off the start? I think realistically I can expect maybe once a week for now (not a bad thing), or do you think it will be different with the preexisting relationship already established? I know everyone is different, am just curious.

[Versacehottie]

She did reply this morning. I asked her out this afternoon for mid week as we both had plans for the weekend (Wednesday or Thursday). Got a reply within an hour saying sure and she will let me know what day works better early in the week. She isn't one for small talk via text, so it was a quick one back.

 

Versace,

 

With your friends, do you happen to recall how often they were seeing each other off the start? I think realistically I can expect maybe once a week for now (not a bad thing), or do you think it will be different with the preexisting relationship already established? I know everyone is different, am just curious.

Good, glad she replied!

 

Just thinking of the few couples of the top of my head, I know I know more--all of these couples are still together!

1. They were best friends and already saw each other every day or at least talked. After they hooked up they still saw each other every day.

2. They worked together and hung out as friends 3-4 times per week at least. They work in a very social business so that wasn't that unusual but did a lot together for work events in the evening, lunches, everything. They had a false start (a few weeks) where he backed out because he wasn't ready due to his career not being where he wanted it and some other stuff (none bad or about her or other girls) and it was about 6 months later that they got together and stayed together. During the 6 month period off they hung out as friends lots of lunches and probably 1-3 nights per week. And then one night again it changed back again and they were pretty inseparable after that, moving in together not that long after--6 months maybe.

3. They also worked together and hung out a lot even during off time. Their "company" was very small. I think once they got started dating instead of just being friends it was about 2-3 nights a week and increased really fast. It probably was only 2-3 nights per week at the very beginning because the guy works a lot and his work schedule eats up some of his evenings. She didn't have a similar work schedule even though they were at same company BUT has many activities almost every night so that was probably only reason it was only 2-3 at beginning. And then once they were a little more solid even if he worked late or she had an activity they would spend the night with each other almost every night.

4. The other couple although I know very well live in another city than me so I'm less familiar with how often they were seeing each other as friends. Probably doing stuff 1-2 per week, talking every other day. Once they got together, all weekends, same 1-2 per during week if I remember correctly.

 

From your description of your friendship, I think you don't hang out as much as these couples did beforehand but just like I said in my previous post whatever you do don't do less. So if you see each other as friends 1-2 per week, keep that up but now they will be dates. It's too bad that she is not much for texting since that would be a good way to use the friendship connection you have to flirt and be funny throughout the day without expecting that she will have lots of nights free for you right away but you could really still build the connection. I'm not saying I don't get her point small talk is not always my thing on the phone, though I don't mind the texting at all. I think with friends, barring an circumstances where they are in a holding pattern, things progress pretty fast. Good luck. If I think of more good timing information I'll let you know.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Versacehottie

[Versacehottie]

Oh I forgot to say how often the couple saw each other that just got married. They probably saw each other 1 per week before as friends. They ALSO worked together, a little more removed than the other 2 couples I've mentioned who worked closely together. However, their business is ALSO very social!! So lots of work event parties/dinners in the evenings. The night they got together was related to one of those work events. The night after the first night they got together was another work event party. Then he had to go away for business for the week and invited her to come for part of it. She didn't go but the whole time he was there, they worked out the negotiations via phone of how they were going to transition and did they really want to and their worries etc. And agreed to give it a try. Apart from work events which seemed like they were 1-2 per week (they did not go to lunches as often because he has to take other people to lunch) and apart from seeing each other at least for a bit at work every day (but they were keeping it a secret from most people), dating alone they probably saw each other 2-3 times per week. They both like to go out a lot to dinners so that part matched with who they are and the weekend dates were basically spending the majority of the weekend together. It didn't take long to ramp up to that level of contact. Immediately 2-3 dates per week. The whole weekend thing and taking weekend trips was about a month into it and from then on.

[leafguy]

Thanks for all that info Versace,

 

I'm hopeful that it gets to the few times a week stage in the next little while but we shall see. She's a teacher, so I know a lot of her time is marking and lesson planning outside of school hours, so on that alone, it will be tough to see her more than a day or two a week, and that's before my commitments as well with sports, classes and work. She did tell me that once everything is caught up she will have most evenings and weekends free, so I think she has set the seeds a bit there that she is more than open to seeing each other more, as well as mentioning going on vacation together.

 

I suppose it might be relevant that this is where I first noticed the potential interest was a couple weeks ago when I was talking about vacation and she said she would love to go south for a week during the winter with just the two of us.

 

It seems like with your friends, most were working together and saw each other regularly. I am willing to bet that helped with an easier transition. That being said, I am also getting a bit ahead of myself with all of this, but I am just trying to get a bigger picture as to what problems may come about or things that may need to be talked about that may not be obvious at this point with this situation being completely new to me.

[Versacehottie]

Thanks for all that info Versace,

 

I'm hopeful that it gets to the few times a week stage in the next little while but we shall see. She's a teacher, so I know a lot of her time is marking and lesson planning outside of school hours, so on that alone, it will be tough to see her more than a day or two a week, and that's before my commitments as well with sports, classes and work. She did tell me that once everything is caught up she will have most evenings and weekends free, so I think she has set the seeds a bit there that she is more than open to seeing each other more, as well as mentioning going on vacation together.

 

I suppose it might be relevant that this is where I first noticed the potential interest was a couple weeks ago when I was talking about vacation and she said she would love to go south for a week during the winter with just the two of us.

 

It seems like with your friends, most were working together and saw each other regularly. I am willing to bet that helped with an easier transition. That being said, I am also getting a bit ahead of myself with all of this, but I am just trying to get a bigger picture as to what problems may come about or things that may need to be talked about that may not be obvious at this point with this situation being completely new to me.

 

Yes, I think because the two of you didn't have as much contact beforehand as these couples I know, you can't expect or want that. That's just a normal dating thing of wanting to be around someone a lot because you are excited about them. For these couples it was a reality because anything else would be going backwards. That's why I keep stressing to you that whatever you do don't do less--that's backwards and no good! Otherwise don't overthink it.

 

What I do think you can take from the stories that I gave you is that all of them progressed to serious quicker than other couples and no real hesitation. I think that's something you might be able to expect in yours. For example, she already posed a trip away together. That would be pretty bold with very newly dating normal couples. In the case of friends, she didn't mind or hold back on suggesting that and there's a presumption you will be together when this takes place in the future. That's a good sign. (Presumption in a good way and good communication that's a benefit friends into dating have)

 

Don't worry about "problems" or you may create some where none existed. I sense your anxiety some. You need to focus on having fun and work on creating a good bond with her. I think based on what you have said 1-2 times per week is good. But don't get caught up in all of that as some formula. If you are in regular contact with her these kind of things just naturally evolve. Let's say you are on a date, it's normal to talk about upcoming stuff you have going on and stuff you are interested in doing--then suggest doing it together. Ask questions to find out what she'd think was fun and then suggest doing it together. Always have a banter--which doesn't and IMO shouldn't be linear--where seeds planted for future together time are planted. With couples that talk/text during the time in between dates a lot of this comes up during that time---but if she doesn't want to do that or is resisting that you should do your stuff within the dates too.

 

Obviously you can always directly contact and ask in between dates for the next one too. I just think you build the connection when the date comes from some discussion you are having. Ugh, I'm not explaining well but there's less of a stiffness/formality to it. Not that that is a bad thing but if you are having anxiety and time constraints already I don't want you to get the feeling that you are being blown off if you ask in the more formal way. Does that make sense or am I just rambling? The more regular contact you have and more things you have set for "sometime in future" or wanting to do something together in future, the more natural it just becomes to spend more and more time together. But careful about thinking about that--make sure you've got excitement going on that is managed well and in pace with her so it's not clinginess or pushiness. Or that your anxiety/uncertainty and need for assurance is driving this bus. Have fun!

[Versacehottie]

But careful about thinking about that--make sure you've got excitement going on that is managed well and in pace with her so it's not clinginess or pushiness. Or that your anxiety/uncertainty and need for assurance is driving this bus. Have fun!

 

yes definitely be aware of her pace and don't be clingy, pushy. I'm just remembering a guy who liked me once. Before our first date, I told him I was busy for weekend and that we should talk the next week. I hadn't even gone on one date with him yet and didn't owe him anything. I couldn't have been clearer about let's just talk next week and the guy couldn't hold his horses and blew up my phone and then during some boring conversation was quizzing me about why I wasn't accessible that weekend. It was cool enough that I didn't think he was possessive but it was clingy and needy. Big turn off. Excitement and spontaneous when there is something to say or something you thought the other person would find interesting or funny, ie work on building the connection!! Wanting to have the perfect formula of dates and figure out how to gain more access is kind of selfish in a way or needy because without a connection that really isn't about her or you both but is actually about YOU. Just a thought.

[leafguy]

Thx again for the reply Versace

 

I am definitely not doing less...I am doing basically what she is giving me. She had a function last night do I asked her how it was and complimented how she looked. Got a very happy response, texted back sometime later as I was busy with sports today, so its basically been the one or two a day text. Definitely can't see that being clingy.

 

That being said, as fast as I want it to progress, part of me thinks she is still a bit messed up about all of it as well, which is why things are still kind of up in the air. I absolutely agree the trip is a good sign, but I am not sure if that was said as friends (it was about three weeks before the whole situation changed), so maybe it has been on her mind for quite some time and she finally let the guard down so to speak. Just thinking out loud (rambling).

 

You have explained yourself very well, no need to be worried about that. I am grateful you are taking so much time out of your day to offer help. I know some of your replies have been very lengthy and time consuming. You are absolutely right about the having things planned or suggested for the future. That has normally come up at some point on most dates so I am not worried about that. I wouldn't expect this to be an exception either.

 

I think managing the excitement for me is the big thing in this picture. I definitely think I am further along in terms of feelings...ie I would have had no issues starting to date her at any point during our friendship just because I knew what was there and was willing to take the risk earlier as well. Sorry if that sounds selfish. Either that she is really worried about losing the friendship which is why she was so hesitant to take that step. I have no intention of quizzing her about a weekend or anything about that type of thing. One thing that I know is she is always true to her word, and its why we have had such a stable friendship, despite how intermittent it has been at times seeing each other. Thx again for the reply Versace

[leafguy]

So havent heard from her much but from what I have she is having a very rough go of things at work...hating her job big time. Do I just keep quiet or just let her know she can vent if she wants too?