minimariah Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 i had a convo with my xH a couple of days ago -- we were stuck together waiting for The Kid & somehow... we got to the point of discussing our failed marriage. long story short -- he had an A, i found out the same day he was about to confess; he wanted to stay out of obligation but was in love with the OW; i accepted that & moved on with the divorce... no drama whatsoever. he told me something along these lines -- well, i'm sure you didn't really love me [at the end of our marriage] since you let go of me so easily... -- i asked him what he meant? he said that me not "fighting" for him meant that i was okay with him leaving. is that what folks think...? that if you don't "fight" (whatever that means) for your marriage or WS - you don't love them? so... by that logic, a BS who does the most drama loves the most? =\
No Limit Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I think a WS's ego is just quite hurt when they aren't fought for, some may just miss the thought of having the upper hand in the situation. Then again, many BS don't consider a WS to be worth fighting for in the first place ("damaged goods") - again, a blow to the ego. 1
d0nnivain Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Nobody else can say what's the right or wrong or wrong way to respond to an affair. I don't know that there was anything to fight for since he threw your vows away by having the affair. I'd turn it around on him. He certainly didn't fight temptation. The fact that you walked away with a minimum of drama says a great deal about your character. Other than an affair, yes I do think many people walk away too easily but I have also never walked in their shoes. 2
TaraMaiden2 Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I am personally at a loss as to know precisely what this 'fighting for someone' entails. Challenging the illicit lover to a duel? Trying to be better in bed? BW: Making a better lamb hotpot than she does? BH: Fixing you car, and checking it over better than he does? Ranting, raving, yelling, cursing, emotionally blackmailing? (Like that's really going to swing it, right?) Sometimes, when someone says "Why didn't you fight for me?" The legitimate and logical reply would be - "Could you outline precisely what you mean by that, and what you would have expected me to do?" And I guarantee, they'll shrug and start of by saying, "Oh, I dunno....." Well if they don't know - why damn well mention it? I'll tell you why. Because rather than saying - well, i'm sure you didn't really love me [at the end of our marriage] since you let go of me so easily... What they SHOULD be saying (given the fact that they are the ones who cheated and wanted out) "Well, I guess it must be because I ended up disrespecting you so badly, and betraying you, that I really wasn't worth you wasting your emotions and affections on me, one second longer." And that would be just about right. If they do something to fracture the marriage so badly, why do they expect YOU to repair it? 2
d0nnivain Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I am personally at a loss as to know precisely what this 'fighting for someone' entails. Again, taking an affair out of the equation, for me, part of it is swallowing my pride, saying sorry & working to repair it. On one occasion, I had a fight with my BF. I thought we were through although nobody said it. The next day I came out of class & found my car decorated with flowers, a teddy bear & an apology note. He made the grand gesture. Another time I had a HUGE fight with DH early in our marriage. I screamed awful things like "I want a divorce!" and stormed out. A day later, I called him & said I was sorry, that I didn't mean it & I wanted to talk about what happened. It took a few weeks to repair & we are both very sensitive to the issues which led to the fight. 1
TaraMaiden2 Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Again, taking an affair out of the equation, for me, part of it is swallowing my pride, saying sorry & working to repair it. Yes, but the point is, that would be the cheating spouse's role, not the betrayed spouse. So this would be on him. She wouldn't be the one 'fighting'... On one occasion, I had a fight with my BF. I thought we were through although nobody said it. The next day I came out of class & found my car decorated with flowers, a teddy bear & an apology note. He made the grand gesture. That was an apology, and a 'can we work through this?' Not a 'fighting for you' scenario. Another time I had a HUGE fight with DH early in our marriage. I screamed awful things like "I want a divorce!" and stormed out. A day later, I called him & said I was sorry, that I didn't mean it & I wanted to talk about what happened. It took a few weeks to repair & we are both very sensitive to the issues which led to the fight. Sorry. I don't think any of your examples exactly cover what her exH meant when he said that she didn't fight for him. Your situations are a two-way thing. He cheated on her, and that was that. How was she supposed to fight and make up for his appalling shortfall in the issue? (I'm not arguing with you d0nnivain; I just think if anyone should have fought for the marriage, it was on him to initiate the 'fight for', not her.) 1
readynow Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 When someone has an affair, there will be no 'fighting' for them. They can go do whatever they want with whomever they wish. They should be the one fighting to keep the relationship together. 4
gaius Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I don't know, he must be borderline retarded if he's really complaining that you didn't fight for him after he cheated on you, but maybe if he's talking about an overall feeling of not being desired before the affair maybe he has some ground to stand on. 2
d0nnivain Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 (I'm not arguing with you d0nnivain; I just think if anyone should have fought for the marriage, it was on him to initiate the 'fight for', not her.) I agree with you. As the BS, she had no obligation to fight for anything. The onus was always on him, the bad actor. My answer with examples responded to your general Q about what "fighting for a relationship" looks like. It wasn't specific to the OPs situation. 2
craw Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Wtf does this man want? Sounds like a whiny child. Next! Also you sound wonderful, Mariah! His loss. 1
MissBee Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 When someone has an affair, there will be no 'fighting' for them. They can go do whatever they want with whomever they wish. They should be the one fighting to keep the relationship together. I agree. In the case of an affair where you state you are staying out of obligation and love someone else, you are insane and unfair to expect the other person to "fight" for you. YOU messed up, you should fight for them. Putting work MUTUALLY into a relationship is one thing, but chasing and fighting to stay with someone who doesn't want to be with you makes no sense. Maybe for some it's a "test", but it's very emotionally immature and dysfunctional thinking to push someone away and say you don't want them but secretly hope they will ignore you and "fight" anyway. Say what you mean and mean what you say. If you want to work on things, work on them and say so. Don't play the fool and say you are done but hope they will pretend they didn't hear and stalk you and fight, that's absolute nonsense. But some people do think high drama, jealousy, fighting etc. are all indicative of love and care and that points to a dysfunctional mindset that equates manipulation and drama with love. 1
CaliGypsy Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 He said he was in love with another woman, what exactly would be the point in fighting for him? His reasoning for wanting to stay together was selfish. He seems to be looking back and trying to absolve himself. You are certainly not at fault for not "fighting" for him. Seems like a lot of times talking to our exes about the past is frustrating and counter productive. I also think we all look at the past a little differently. I'm sure in his mind his reasoning all makes perfect sense. 1
jen1447 Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I think ppl routinely use "fighting for" as a rationalization in situations where it's inappropriate. If "fighting" can be construed as 'putting forth effort' in general, why would you put forth effort on sth that's already wrecked? Etc. But again it's just a misappropriation of the concept designed to let him off the hook or at least lessen his guilt, like TM said. 1
Author minimariah Posted September 23, 2015 Author Posted September 23, 2015 I think a WS's ego is just quite hurt when they aren't fought for, some may just miss the thought of having the upper hand in the situation. Then again, many BS don't consider a WS to be worth fighting for in the first place ("damaged goods") - again, a blow to the ego. i agree but in this case -- he really meant it. my xH is a good man and doesn't really have huge ego problems... he genuinely thinks that me "moving on" meant that i didn't really love him. this isn't the first time he said something like that to me, either - in the past, when things were fresh... he commented to our friends how i was probably a lot more unhappy than i let on because i moved on so easily. by moved on means pretty quickly gathered myself & i had no breakdowns in public. Other than an affair, yes I do think many people walk away too easily but I have also never walked in their shoes. what do you mean by walking away too easily? I am personally at a loss as to know precisely what this 'fighting for someone' entails. me too! just to be clear, i wasn't hurt by his words - we get along well. i was just really surprised by his sincere opinion that i didn't love him because i didn't grieve a lot, because i had no huge dramas or breakdowns. i think he expected me to fight for him, meaning to either beg and cry or to try to become friends with him & then lovers (all over again)...? i honestly don't know. i was just really surprised because it is an attitude i often see around -- if a person accepts the break up too easily, it means that they didn't love enough anyway. :/
Author minimariah Posted September 23, 2015 Author Posted September 23, 2015 But again it's just a misappropriation of the concept designed to let him off the hook or at least lessen his guilt, like TM said. yeah, this. i really think it's this.
bcnguy Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I don't know, he must be borderline retarded if he's really complaining that you didn't fight for him after he cheated on you, but maybe if he's talking about an overall feeling of not being desired before the affair maybe he has some ground to stand on.You're right, he sounds incredibly self-absorbed, selfish and childish. Not to mention pushy, retorting/reversing things a la victim blaming. He might feel so ashamed he's in denial and acts like a jerk. OP given your description I have the impression he won't be serene/ready to sincerely talk about your past R anytime soon. So I wouldn't expect nor recommend to even try having meaningful conversations in his current mindset. I must admit I was wondering -while reading your post- if there's any concrete insight/answer or apology that you needed from him during that conversation? Anyway, not an easy position to be OP, that's for sure. If it wasn't for the kid I'd say no further contact would be ideal. Let's hope he grows up and can be a proper father, at last. Best of luck. 1
Author minimariah Posted September 23, 2015 Author Posted September 23, 2015 I must admit I was wondering -while reading your post- if there's any concrete insight/answer or apology that you needed from him during that conversation? no. we're both over it & he's happy with his OW -- i'm still very much in love with my last partner (not my xH). we're friendly with each other, he's a good man and a great dad and there is really no bad blood, hurt or pain. we take care of our business. our close friends are divorcing and we were discussing them, he commented on them & we somehow ended up comparing our divorce with theirs (theirs is full of drama & breakdowns, very difficult). it didn't cause any hurt or pain, i was just really surprised because he commented like that in the past too. so i was wondering do folks really feel like you didn't love the person you're with if you didn't "fight" for them? =\ it was like this with us -- he - i'm in love with XZ. i want to be with her. me - OK. that was really it, lmao. and based on me fast accepting the situation as done deal, he took it as me not really loving him either.
bcnguy Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 it didn't cause any hurt or pain, i was just really surprised because he commented like that in the past too. so i was wondering do folks really feel like you didn't love the person you're with if you didn't "fight" for them? =\ it was like this with us -- he - i'm in love with XZ. i want to be with her. me - OK. that was really it, lmao. and based on me fast accepting the situation as done deal, he took it as me not really loving him either.I think that thread of thinking/reasoning is simply absurd. Being or acting rational doesn't mean that you feel any less. It's not just my opinion, solid evidence/science backs it up. TBH I behave like that often. It comes naturally to me cos I was born a bit out of the spectrum and been 'training' since I was a kid. cheers
PrettyEmily77 Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 it was like this with us -- he - i'm in love with XZ. i want to be with her. me - OK. IMO, drama limitation during a break-up / divorce is a serious sign of maturity and self-respect, especially on your part, MM. Actually, I do believe that you can let go of someone more readily when you truly love them (not necessarily in love with them) and want their happiness above making a scene. Depends on the state of the RS pre-break-up obvs + on your emotional stability but on the whole, it shows great self-restraint and class. What's the point in fighting for someone when they're already gone, right?
d0nnivain Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 what do you mean by walking away too easily? I have heard people say things like I'm bored in my marriage I want a divorce. Yet they haven't lifted a finger to make it not boring. Several years ago I went on an international trip with my extended family. DH & I had a fight the 1st day. I had needed an international cell phone to keep in touch with my business back home. I got the physical phone & asked DH to program it before we left. I was doing a bunch of other stuff including last minute work & coordinating 11 people's travel plans from 3 states. DH did not program my phone before we left. He didn't understand that the phone had to be programmed before we left the US otherwise once we reached Europe there was no way to make a connection to a carrier who provided dial tone. So once we landed I had no way to contact my office & I was angry because I asked him to do this one thing. He was angry because he felt like I should not have tasked him with something for my job. Anyway we fought. The majority of my family members all of whom are divorced, offered me other hotel accommodations, the phone #s for their divorce attorneys and to pay to send DH home in anticipation of our split. I was flabbergasted. I said to more than one of them. I don't want a divorce. It's a freakin' phone. I'll buy a disposable one & pay the international rates when the stores open on Monday. I'm not getting a divorce over a phone a few dollars. That's just once example of why I think people give up too easily. Adultery is a whole other ball game & the game is over at that point.
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