Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 if you have defined that she has strong narcissist traits why do want her back......if you know this then you would also know that she can only make you miserable......do you believe people who are abused are all narcissists i will have to say what she has thrown at you about trying to control her is more about her getting busted by you than her truly believing you are controlling her..i think its called gas lighting.....where they switch it on to you and honestly probably has nothing to do with her past abuse...she just didnt like being busted.... i dont like to be told i am wrong..does anyone......i do accept though i often am wrong.......and that has nothing to do with my abuse either...deb I don't want her back in her current form. I think she needs the opportunity to learn, heal, and become a better and stable person if possible. I don't mind being told I am wrong when I know I am, I see it as a way to learn. I just learn some things slow. lol Yes I caught her, she realizes it.
todreaminblue Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 I don't want her back in her current form. I think she needs the opportunity to learn, heal, and become a better and stable person if possible. I don't mind being told I am wrong when I know I am, I see it as a way to learn. I just learn some things slow. lol Yes I caught her, she realizes it. i dont like to be told i am wrong when i know i am not.......for example my religion...it is for me...i dont ask or expect that everyone agree with my beliefs but i do ask for respect which to me is not trying to prove my beliefs or me to be wrong.....or the age old...there is no god......you are wrong to believe there is....when i know they are wrong to believe there isnt.. a no win argument that one......... maybe she will gain some stability maybe she will heal...the scars will remain though.......as will the issues that broek you up in the first place if they arent resolved between the two of you..... my ex was a very dominant male physically and mentally strong also quite stubborn with issues....and he has changed .......he tells me all the time now that i can talk to him and that he took back every bad thing he ever said or did....it wasnt my fault.......he is now the person i knew he always was all the time....supportive loving non drinking non smoking calm person i knew first off the guy i met and fell in love with......that doesnt make him right for me though...because no matter how much he has changed .......our past together remains the same...and some things are just meant to end.i will always care for him...he is the father of my daughters....by heart isnt with him anymore and i dont think it was meant to stay with him or it would have......i would still be with him if it were meant to be...do you feel that way yet....that it happened because it was actually meant to end.... I miss the closeness...and the fact at one stage i trusted him enough to open up to him and tell him how i felt about everything or what happened....that trust has not come back...do you think even if she did change you could honestly really open up and trust her....do you miss her...or being close to someone.........deb
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 If she can heal herself, I believe anything is possible. I believe it comes down to a matter of maturity. I can forgive and forget. Some can't. Damage is not permanent unless we let it be permanent.
todreaminblue Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 If she can heal herself, I believe anything is possible. I believe it comes down to a matter of maturity. I can forgive and forget. Some can't. Damage is not permanent unless we let it be permanent. maybe you are right guyoutthere......it is possible for people to change.....i hope whatever happens you find happiness and for her too....deb
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 I'll give an example….. I know someone who was with a girl for over a year, he fought with her, hurt her badly with words too after he caught her cheating. They broke up. She went off and got married, they became friends years later. She now wishes that she married him. The resentment was there, but she healed and got over it. That is maturity. He admits he went off on her at the time, she forgave and forgot. So yes, people do change.
todreaminblue Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 I'll give an example….. I know someone who was with a girl for over a year, he fought with her, hurt her badly with words too after he caught her cheating. They broke up. She went off and got married, they became friends years later. She now wishes that she married him. The resentment was there, but she healed and got over it. That is maturity. He admits he went off on her at the time, she forgave and forgot. So yes, people do change. ok well i would differ on the maturity part when she is telling a guy who is not her husband she wished she married him...that to me is trouble and not mature love.......deb
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) ok well i would differ on the maturity part when she is telling a guy who is not her husband she wished she married him...that to me is trouble and not mature love.......deb She was not happy in her marriage. I just know that. Point being, she overlooked the bad parts, because evidently she loved him to begin with. And that is my point here….. Part of this problem is that the woman I refer to in these posts claims she is so mature, yet she is not. And she specifically told me when we first met,,,, she can and will "kill someone in her mind", meaning erase all memory of them should they hurt her. That is pretty drastic. It is an unrealistic way to deal with pain. But that is what narcs do. It is also the true sign of a narc as well, they put up a facade to protect the fragile inner self, so by nature, they cannot forgive. And if there is any chance she will forgive and forget, it will not come until/unless she can be changed from the narc pattern. Edited September 28, 2015 by Guyouthere
todreaminblue Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) She was not happy in her marriage. I just know that. Point being, she overlooked the bad parts, because evidently she loved him to begin with. And that is my point here….. Part of this problem is that the woman I refer to in these posts claims she is so mature, yet she is not. And she specifically told me when we first met,,,, she can and will "kill someone in her mind", meaning erase all memory of them should they hurt her. That is pretty drastic. It is an unrealistic way to deal with pain. But that is what narcs do. It is also the true sign of a narc as well, they put up a facade to protect the fragile inner self, so by nature, they cannot forgive. And if there is any chance she will forgive and forget, it will not come until/unless she can be changed from the narc pattern. to me your woman in your example signifies or is showing a pattern of avoidance.....she has an unhappy marriage instead of working on her marriage....she is reliving the past so hence avoiding the future which obviously should include her marriage........i dont think she has matured past that...... i guess thats a difference in perspective that we have part of me tends to do this when i dont want to face my feelings for someone.....the part that recognizes the feelings and accepts them though, wont shut up......it comes out in my writing ...in my advice...what i say and what i do......how i act....and often i get subtle signs on how i should act.........what it all comes down to is choice...... and ultimately i choose to love.....whom i love...in spite of flaws.......love is stronger......always will be stronger....thats why i believe people who are meant to be together will be......and i hope this happens for you....maybe it might be with this woman you speak of.....or maybe it might be a woman you have yet to meet...what i do know is you can take whatever you want forward that helps you build a stronger relationship next time with whomever that is..... killing off soneone in your mind is also a defense mechanism against getting hurt again from what i know of narcissists it isnt about getting hurt is it?..i am not sure on that one.......deb Edited September 28, 2015 by todreaminblue
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 to me your woman in your example signifies or is showing a pattern of avoidance.....she has an unhappy marriage instead of working on her marriage....she is reliving the past so hence avoiding the future which obviously should include her marriage........i dont think she has matured past that...... i guess thats a difference in perspective that we have part of me tends to do this when i dont want to face my feelings for someone.....the part that recognizes the feelings and accepts them though, wont shut up......it comes out in my writing ...in my advice...what i say and what i do......how i act....and often i get subtle signs on how i should act.........what it all comes down to is choice...... and ultimately i choose to love.....whom i love...in spite of flaws.......love is stronger......always will be stronger....thats why i believe people who are meant to be together will be......and i hope this happens for you....maybe it might be with this woman you speak of.....or maybe it might be a woman you have yet to meet...what i do know is you can take whatever you want forward that helps you build a stronger relationship next time with whomever that is..... killing off soneone in your mind is also a defense mechanism against getting hurt again from what i know of narcissists it isnt about getting hurt is it?..i am not sure on that one.......deb Narcissists don't like to have their ego torn down and brought back to a normal level. I put up with that only for so long. There is a difference between being smart and above average mentally, and thinking you are above most everyone else. I think that is what bothered her the most,, as narcissists can't feel they do wrong either. Never once in the time I knew her did she ever apologize, even though I made it clear that I was hurt by what she said. To me, that is a turnoff. I can't function normally with someone like that. It strained our relationship and eventually caused me to verbally attack her which I normally would not do.
katiegrl Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Narcissists don't like to have their ego torn down and brought back to a normal level. I put up with that only for so long. There is a difference between being smart and above average mentally, and thinking you are above most everyone else. I think that is what bothered her the most,, as narcissists can't feel they do wrong either. Never once in the time I knew her did she ever apologize, even though I made it clear that I was hurt by what she said. To me, that is a turnoff. I can't function normally with someone like that. It strained our relationship and eventually caused me to verbally attack her which I normally would not do. Did it ever occur to you that SHE may think YOU are a narcissist? Frankly, I am beginning to wonder myself. Narcissists are extremely self-absorbed, all about themselves. Blaming others for their own failures and *labeling* those people with names such as narcissist, BPD, abusive, or whatever. You have created no less than 11 threads in a little over a week,. Many of them trashing your ex, for a variety of reasons. Calling her narcissistic, selfish, abusive as well as other equally deplorable names. Is all this making YOU feel better? I mean what is your point? You call *her* a narcissist ....oh the irony! Edited September 28, 2015 by katiegrl
Redhead14 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Did it ever occur to you that SHE may think YOU are a narcissist? Narcissists are extremely self-absorbed, all about themselves. Blaming others for their own failures and *labeling* those people with names such as narcissist, BPD, or whatever. You have created no less than 11 threads in a little over a week,. Many of them trashing your ex, for a variety of reasons. Calling her narcissistic, selfish, etc etc etc. Is this all making YOU feel better? You call her a narcissist ....oh the irony! He has gone from trying to educate himself and be understanding of her "issues" and be compassionate to bitterness. There are several threads he's started and I have been observing the swing between his love and concern for her and the approaching over-compensation for having lost this girl. In the end, I think we will see that this is about "conquering" for him. Being able to beat the odds and be the Knight in Shining Armor for her. The challenge. If he is unable to be that, he will "turn on" her and tear her up. I did allude to, in a couple of my responses, the fact that he should take a step back and reflect on what his motivations are in all this.
Redhead14 Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Narcissists don't like to have their ego torn down and brought back to a normal level. I put up with that only for so long. There is a difference between being smart and above average mentally, and thinking you are above most everyone else. I think that is what bothered her the most,, as narcissists can't feel they do wrong either. Never once in the time I knew her did she ever apologize, even though I made it clear that I was hurt by what she said. To me, that is a turnoff. I can't function normally with someone like that. It strained our relationship and eventually caused me to verbally attack her which I normally would not do. Never once in the time I knew her did she ever apologize, even though I made it clear that I was hurt by what she said. She is unable to make and keep boundaries for herself and is similarly unable to understand and respect boundaries for others as well.
katiegrl Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) He has gone from trying to educate himself and be understanding of her "issues" and be compassionate to bitterness. There are several threads he's started and I have been observing the swing between his love and concern for her and the approaching over-compensation for having lost this girl. In the end, I think we will see that this is about "conquering" for him. Being able to beat the odds and be the Knight in Shining Armor for her. The challenge. If he is unable to be that, he will "turn on" her and tear her up. I did allude to, in a couple of my responses, the fact that he should take a step back and reflect on what his motivations are in all this. Well yeah, but what is even more appalling to me now is ..... after all this, it has come to light that HE verbally abused HER! (See his post I quoted in my above response). Oh but according to him, it was all "HER" fault .... she "made" him verbally abuse her cause she was just this horrible selfish person who *turned him off*. Un freakin believable. Edited September 28, 2015 by katiegrl
katiegrl Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Never once in the time I knew her did she ever apologize, even though I made it clear that I was hurt by what she said. She is unable to make and keep boundaries for herself and is similarly unable to understand and respect boundaries for others as well. To the OP....did YOU ever apologize to her for verbally abusing her? Oh I forgot, she deserved it cause she *turned you off." Not justifying her behavior, but I think it's time, instead of these constant attacks against her, you look within yourself for answers. You're no prize either dude.... YOU abused her too.... Edited September 28, 2015 by katiegrl
katiegrl Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) He has gone from trying to educate himself and be understanding of her "issues" and be compassionate to bitterness. There are several threads he's started and I have been observing the swing between his love and concern for her and the approaching over-compensation for having lost this girl. *** In the end, I think we will see that this is about "conquering" for him. Being able to beat the odds and be the Knight in Shining Armor for her. The challenge. If he is unable to be that, he will "turn on" her and tear her up. **** I did allude to, in a couple of my responses, the fact that he should take a step back and reflect on what his motivations are in all this. Quote in asterisk -- Red, is this not classic narcissistic behavior? His relationship with her was not about love, but conquering ... and when he failed to conquer her, suddenly she's the horrible one, which justifies him trashing her and turning on her ..... That and his verbally abusing her ... I am beginning to wonder now if everything he has told us about her is even true ...sounds like he may be projecting. In any event, he needs to focus on HIS issues, not hers... Edited September 28, 2015 by katiegrl
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 Did it ever occur to you that SHE may think YOU are a narcissist? Frankly, I am beginning to wonder myself. Narcissists are extremely self-absorbed, all about themselves. Blaming others for their own failures and *labeling* those people with names such as narcissist, BPD, abusive, or whatever. You have created no less than 11 threads in a little over a week,. Many of them trashing your ex, for a variety of reasons. Calling her narcissistic, selfish, abusive as well as other equally deplorable names. Is all this making YOU feel better? I mean what is your point? You call *her* a narcissist ....oh the irony! Forgive me then, it is my way of healing and learning about this all. I am very analytical and it is the way I process information. I never experienced someone like this, and it is important for me to learn and ask the questions so that if I encounter this again, I know how to handle it better. No, I am not a narc.
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 Well yeah, but what is even more appalling to me now is ..... after all this, it has come to light that HE verbally abused HER! (See his post I quoted in my above response). Oh but according to him, it was all "HER" fault .... she "made" him verbally abuse her cause she was just this horrible selfish person who *turned him off*. Un freakin believable. I never made the claim I am perfect, and I acknowledge I make mistakes, and made them. I know why I react in certain ways, and I know why I reacted as I did in this situation. I believe mistakes were made on both sides. For me, tension builds when I feel frustrated, and I was because of the way it all played out. No, I didn't want control, that is far from the truth. It was always about what she wanted to, so you can see why I would get frustrated when I don't feel it reciprocated. And I did and still do truly love this girl. I believe her issues are preventing her from really realizing a good relationship. I know I can't save her, I just want to see her overcome that.
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 Quote in asterisk -- Red, is this not classic narcissistic behavior? His relationship with her was not about love, but conquering ... and when he failed to conquer her, suddenly she's the horrible one, which justifies him trashing her and turning on her ..... That and his verbally abusing her ... I am beginning to wonder now if everything he has told us about her is even true ...sounds like he may be projecting. In any event, he needs to focus on HIS issues, not hers... I have been very honest and forthcoming here with it all. I gave all details as they occurred. No I am not looking to trash her. I keep saying I believe she is a good person, but with issues. You should go back and read what I wrote.
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 Lets be honest,….. EVERYONE gets into arguments. So I yelled, who the hell doesn't at times? No one is perfect. Noone should expect others to not make mistakes, UNLESS, of course, they have too high an ego and believe they are above others.
katiegrl Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Forgive me then, it is my way of healing and learning about this all. I am very analytical and it is the way I process information. I never experienced someone like this, and it is important for me to learn and ask the questions so that if I encounter this again, I know how to handle it better. ****No, I am not a narc.**** No of course you wouldn't think so. Most people with personality disorders never recognize those signs in themselves. Look I don't know if you are or not. I just think it's wrong to constantly berate and attack your ex (as you are doing here ad nauseum)... without recognizing your own role in the demise. That's all....
katiegrl Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Lets be honest,….. EVERYONE gets into arguments. So I yelled, who the hell doesn't at times? No one is perfect. Noone should expect others to not make mistakes, UNLESS, of course, they have too high an ego and believe they are above others. Yes of course everyone gets into arguments. But they don't become verbally abusive as you admitted to earlier. And after the fact, instead of becoming defensive, announcing "no relationship is PERFECT," a healthy response would have been "yes that was wrong, and I apologized to her for that." But that is not what you did. You became defensive, almost as if to justify your verbally attacking her as okay, which it is not... Just sayin .....
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 No of course you wouldn't think so. Most people with personality disorders never recognize those signs in themselves. Look I don't know if you are or not. I just think it's wrong to constantly berate and attack your ex (as you are doing here ad nauseum)... without recognizing your own role in the demise. That's all.... Im not attacking her. I am saying it as it is. I know I messed up too. I don't seek to conquer. Only narcs believe that when confronted by genuine love. I can make no other conclusion other than she is a narc. We all have nard traits. I know I do as well. However, I don't go putting myself above others.
Author Guyouthere Posted September 28, 2015 Author Posted September 28, 2015 Yes of course everyone gets into arguments. But they don't become verbally abusive as you admitted to earlier. And after the fact, instead of becoming defensive, announcing "no relationship is PERFECT," a healthy response would have been "yes that was wrong, and I apologized to her for that." But that is not what you did. You became defensive, almost as if to justify your verbally attacking her as okay, which it is not... Just sayin ..... Oh no, you got it wrong. I did apologize to her. It is not right to verbally attack someone, I know this. My issue is with those who refuse to forgive, and also never think they are wrong or apologize themselves.
katiegrl Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Im not attacking her. I am saying it as it is. I know I messed up too. I don't seek to conquer. Only narcs believe that when confronted by genuine love. I can make no other conclusion other than she is a narc. We all have nard traits. I know I do as well. However, I don't go putting myself above others. Dude, you admitted to verbally attacking her while arguing..... because she behaved in ways that turned you off. Are you re-writing history now? Granted, you may have been justified in getting turned off ....but you don't verbally attack her, you LEAVE, walk out. Preferably forever. Verbal abuse, no matter what the circumstances, is wrong!
katiegrl Posted September 28, 2015 Posted September 28, 2015 Oh no, you got it wrong. I did apologize to her. It is not right to verbally attack someone, I know this. My issue is with those who refuse to forgive, and also never think they are wrong or apologize themselves. Okay fabulous!!! Glad to hear it!!!!
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