Normal relationship after abuse.

[purdyPeas]

I'm just hoping that once she gets herself in complete mental order… she will realize who really matters to her, who was there for her.

 

Regardless of her problems, I feel I have a special bond with her, it is just "there".

 

 

If she were taking care of herself now, and she were smart, she'd realize that once a man hollers at you, there will be a second time. I'm assuming you have broken her trust and scared her. Threatened, yes abandonment by way dating others. FWB does not compute to abused women. At least not this one.

 

I wouldn't come back to you either. Sorry.

[mrldii]

OP, Redhead's giving you very good and sound information and advice; from everything I know on the subject, Redhead's dead-on.

 

Sexual abuse at a young age - and especially from a parent/parent-figure - is probably the toughest and most life-altering abuse there is. As indicated, most will suffer boundary issues - not being clear about what is right, what is wrong and where acceptable lines are. Understandable, if you think about it - she was told she was loved and then had horrible and inappropriate actions done to her, out of that "love".

 

Victims have a higher-than-usual need for consistency: "Say what you mean, mean what you say." ANY incongruity in words and actions will send them into a tailspin and completely disrupt their world. Again, understandable given what was done in the name of "love".

 

Abandonment issues have a tendency to run high, too...not only was she physically and emotionally hurt and devastated by her father, but her mother 'stood by and watched' and let it happen. The two people that MOST children are allowed to know will lay down their lives for her to spare her pain and trauma were, instead, the source of all of it.

 

It's waaaaay bigger than your ability and/or desire to love her can (or should be expected to) handle. Yes, she needs counseling if she's ever going to have a *normal*, healthy, well-adjusted loving adult relationship...but, even with counseling, these (and other) issues will still be present. If she's successful with it, she'll learn how to handle these issues and - more importantly - be able to express her needs and desires to feel safe within the confines of another 'loving' relationship without [subconsciously] fighting against it, in a learned response to keep herself safe...

 

...since the person saying they "love" her, won't.

 

 

There's a whole bunch more residual [life-long] effects, like self-sabotaging, intimacy [not just sexual intimacy] issues, and tendencies to be either extremely promiscuous OR frigid...to name just a few. Until she successfully receives counseling, she will always have 'relationship problems' and will, naturally and uncontrollably, take you (or any other man) down with her.

 

 

Best of everything to both of you...

[Guyouthere]

If you understood it more, it would only make you a better partner for her. Her ability to be a good partner will be inhibited until she really understands and learns healthy coping skills. You would be doing most, if not all, of the work in a relationship with her and you would be worn down and tired all the time and walking on eggshells in dealing with her for fear of doing or saying the wrong thing(s).

 

I can look back and realize I already felt like that at times.

 

Do these people really change though? Many here say they don't.

 

In your opinion, is it worth it all?

 

My heart is with her, I just feel now she will never forgive what has happened (the arguments).

 

She already told me that my words don't mean anything anymore.

 

I just sent her an email today, don't know if she got it, but I explained I am sorry for all and that I did it because I didn't understand how abuse affected her.

[Guyouthere]

If she were taking care of herself now, and she were smart, she'd realize that once a man hollers at you, there will be a second time. I'm assuming you have broken her trust and scared her. Threatened, yes abandonment by way dating others. FWB does not compute to abused women. At least not this one.

 

I wouldn't come back to you either. Sorry.

 

I made the statement if dating others, but never did it, nor would I have.

 

It was wrong for me, yes, and I made it clear I am wrong.

[Guyouthere]

I made the statement if dating others, but never did it, nor would I have.

 

It was wrong for me, yes, and I made it clear I am wrong.

 

Not understanding her psychology, I was frustrated myself at how she acted. We were at one point, VERY close to being married. It came down to her actually stepping on a plane to do so.

 

What would you have done if you were told that "Im not in a relationship" by the girl you love and almost married, yet gets mad when I told her I "wanted to date others".

 

Not making excuses for my behavior, but can you see my frustration? Mixed signals from her?

[Redhead14]

I can look back and realize I already felt like that at times.

 

Do these people really change though? Many here say they don't.

 

In your opinion, is it worth it all?

 

My heart is with her, I just feel now she will never forgive what has happened (the arguments).

 

She already told me that my words don't mean anything anymore.

 

I just sent her an email today, don't know if she got it, but I explained I am sorry for all and that I did it because I didn't understand how abuse affected her.

 

It would be very difficult for me to tell you whether it's worth it all especially since I have not interviewed/counseled her. I can only tell you that the percentage of clients who suffered the level of abuse she has experienced and have or have gone on to truly healthy relationships is on the low side. I can also tell you that the partners of those clients suffer as well. The term "worth it" is very subjective and individual.

[purdyPeas]

I made the statement if dating others, but never did it, nor would I have.

 

It was wrong for me, yes, and I made it clear I am wrong.

 

Not understanding her psychology, I was frustrated myself at how she acted. We were at one point, VERY close to being married. It came down to her actually stepping on a plane to do so.

 

What would you have done if you were told that "Im not in a relationship" by the girl you love and almost married, yet gets mad when I told her I "wanted to date others".

 

Not making excuses for my behavior, but can you see my frustration? Mixed signals from her?

 

There was a time in my life that love meant everything to me, and this allowed my abuse.

 

I feel your pain. Indeed, this thread makes me terribly sad. I am most empathetic.

 

Perhaps someday you two will come back to each other with the sole goal of supporting each other and the love you profess you two have.

[Guyouthere]

It would be very difficult for me to tell you whether it's worth it all especially since I have not interviewed/counseled her. I can only tell you that the percentage of clients who suffered the level of abuse she has experienced and have or have gone on to truly healthy relationships is on the low side. I can also tell you that the partners of those clients suffer as well. The term "worth it" is very subjective and individual.

 

That is a sad statistic. It saddens me to see that, because they too deserve love like anyone else. They didn't ask for their abuse, it makes me want to cry too that people have to suffer like that.

 

I personally come from a loving home where my parents were married nearly 50 years before my dad died.

 

When I commit to someone, I do it for life and do it sincerely. While not perfect and can and do have a mouth at times (when I get stressed), and I know it can hurt, overall I know I am a good guy capable of a lot of love, which I do give.

 

I am willing to stand by her, despite it all. I am just that way. I just don't give up on people. If she has thrown me away now, I will just have to accept it. I can't relive the past.

 

I believe now, that how she handles the rest, will tell me how much she is "worth it". It is all I can go by. I have recently sent her a couple of emails laying it all out out, rationally and without emotion or harsh words. Maybe she will get and read them and understand the larger picture, including her own need to heal.

[Guyouthere]

There was a time in my life that love meant everything to me, and this allowed my abuse.

 

I feel your pain. Indeed, this thread makes me terribly sad. I am most empathetic.

 

Perhaps someday you two will come back to each other with the sole goal of supporting each other and the love you profess you two have.

 

Thank you.

 

I just feel my ultimate reason for meeting her was not just to rescue her out of a prison and give her a new life without me. Part of me feels that there could be more to come, and if it is Gods' Will, it will.

 

I don't know what else I can do or feel at this point.

 

My love for her is real. Whether or not she can or wants to recripocate, I don't know. Perhaps she can't think like that right now to even understand things.

 

There is the fact that she still has my ring and has not mentioned it or returned it. There is part of me that thinks that she might be rethinking this all on her end, but I don't know. She has been completely silent as I left that door open.

 

Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, or having a false hope, but to me, as a guy, if she isn't returning it, it could be because she hasn't given us completely up (yet).

Edited September 24, 2015 by Guyouthere

[Guyouthere]

Another question,, trying to understand more psychology here….

 

She used to tell me about her "past life".

 

She said she was an older actor who had a younger wife who cheated on him and he died lonely… that they lived in a big house and he was very famous.

 

She even did some "research" to find if she could actually find this guy, who she "was".

 

What type of analysis can you offer of this?

[Redhead14]

Another question,, trying to understand more psychology here….

 

She used to tell me about her "past life".

 

She said she was an older actor who had a younger wife who cheated on him and he died lonely… that they lived in a big house and he was very famous.

 

She even did some "research" to find if she could actually find this guy, who she "was".

 

What type of analysis can you offer of this?

 

This is what I mentioned earlier. It's not a past life. It is an alter that was created. It is the psychological creation of another "person"/life as way to escape the abuse. While she is in this other world/life, she is distracted from feeling the abuse. She is very deeply affected. She is likely experiencing "flashbacks" as well.

 

I cannot more adamantly recommend to you not to pursue a relationship with her. You mentioned above that you want to be a rescuer. You are not equipped mentally or emotionally to take this on I promise you that.

[Guyouthere]

The entire thing is so sad.

 

I love this girl, I really do.

 

I stuck with her through so much, hostage rescue, was there for her when absolutely none else was.

 

Its hard coming to grips with the fact this is the case.

 

I am pretty devastated myself.

[No_Go]

Hey, let me give you an alternative opinion. I have been through hard times as a kid, not sexual abuse but nearly everything else that you can think of. Nevertheless I am actually in a loving relationship, and it is progressing well so far. It wasn't the case for my previous two relationships, but I just haven't picked good people - they were abusive, same to the experience of your girl.

 

I wouldn't write her off because she had traumatic past. You may need to "guide" her what a healthy loving relationship should be, because she didn't have this example... but the fact that she's not "calibrated" in that sense I can see as a problem mainly in finding partners, not keeping the relationship... And she lucked out with you.

 

Keep us posted, I really wish you best of luck.

 

The entire thing is so sad.

 

I love this girl, I really do.

 

I stuck with her through so much, hostage rescue, was there for her when absolutely none else was.

 

Its hard coming to grips with the fact this is the case.

 

I am pretty devastated myself.

[Redhead14]

The entire thing is so sad.

 

I love this girl, I really do.

 

I stuck with her through so much, hostage rescue, was there for her when absolutely none else was.

 

Its hard coming to grips with the fact this is the case.

 

I am pretty devastated myself.

 

I feel for you. However, it seems you have lost yourself a little in this. Take solace in knowing you did do some good for her and that the reality is that there is only so much you can do.

 

As sad as it is to counsel the victims, it's even more difficult to see the pain that a partner/friends and relatives experience. The feeling of helplessness is very hard to deal with.

[Redhead14]

Many people experience difficult childhoods and trauma. There are many factors that determine the level of effect it has on them into adulthood. There is however, nothing that compares to a baby who has been neglected and/or had two parents who were not fully engaged in their roles for that baby in infancy, and then further compounded by sexual abuse, and extreme emotional abuse as they grew up. According to what Guy has said, the woman experiences severe dissociation among other things.

 

I am not minimizing other types of abuse or trauma in any way. However, the psychological damage this young woman carries goes way beyond the depths that most people can imagine and usually simply go into denial about.

 

Based on what Guy has presented here, this young woman has a very long and difficult road ahead of her.

[Guyouthere]

I feel for you. However, it seems you have lost yourself a little in this. Take solace in knowing you did do some good for her and that the reality is that there is only so much you can do.

 

As sad as it is to counsel the victims, it's even more difficult to see the pain that a partner/friends and relatives experience. The feeling of helplessness is very hard to deal with.

 

You are extremely helpful in helping me understand this all. I thank you very much.

 

She has been receiving some counseling since she arrived where she is now. The rescue I referred to earlier was something I helped her organize, and was there for her support as well. It involved 2 governments and also the police agencies, as well as another agency. It was intense, and they forcefully removed her from her "family prison".

 

She flipped when I told her I wanted to date others, she saw that as "abandonment", but I also became torn at the fact she didn't want to commit to me, as much as she said she "loved me", she, I feel, still had doubts, and her past, including her former very abusive boyfriend, she had not been over yet. There were comments she made that really concerned me, I could tell that she was mixed up. She admitted that she was "very broken", and of course missed her family too. She really did say I questioned her loyalty to me, but how can I have felt otherwise?

 

Thats why part of me feels as though I abandoned her, and why I feel guilty.

 

Now I see that this is all beyond my ability to help her, but that part does remain that I love her.

 

So from what I understand, if she ever even had healing, it would still never likely be enough to have a normal relationship some distant future time, am I correct?

 

There is no contact between us right now (ben a week).

 

The last interaction we had, I got very emotional about it all and there were some harsh words said, so I know I pushed her away (at least for now).

 

She said she would send things (like the ring I gave her) back to me, but so far nothing.

 

I'm thinking that perhaps on her end, she wants to just "keep me around".

[Redhead14]

You are extremely helpful in helping me understand this all. I thank you very much.

 

She has been receiving some counseling since she arrived where she is now. The rescue I referred to earlier was something I helped her organize, and was there for her support as well. It involved 2 governments and also the police agencies, as well as another agency. It was intense, and they forcefully removed her from her "family prison".

 

She flipped when I told her I wanted to date others, she saw that as "abandonment", but I also became torn at the fact she didn't want to commit to me, as much as she said she "loved me", she, I feel, still had doubts, and her past, including her former very abusive boyfriend, she had not been over yet. There were comments she made that really concerned me, I could tell that she was mixed up. She admitted that she was "very broken", and of course missed her family too. She really did say I questioned her loyalty to me, but how can I have felt otherwise?

 

Thats why part of me feels as though I abandoned her, and why I feel guilty.

 

Now I see that this is all beyond my ability to help her, but that part does remain that I love her.

 

So from what I understand, if she ever even had healing, it would still never likely be enough to have a normal relationship some distant future time, am I correct?

 

There is no contact between us right now (ben a week).

 

The last interaction we had, I got very emotional about it all and there were some harsh words said, so I know I pushed her away (at least for now).

 

She said she would send things (like the ring I gave her) back to me, but so far nothing.

 

I'm thinking that perhaps on her end, she wants to just "keep me around".

 

There is no definitive way for me to state categorically that she will never have a healthy relationship, I have not interviewed her. But based on many of things you've told me here, it is unlikely she can have a healthy relationship at least for quite sometime.

 

You have not abandoned her. You realized that there were some things about the relationship that weren't working for you. That is about taking care of yourself and wanting to be happy.

 

If she viewed it as abandonment, so be it. Whatever psychological issues she is dealing with, she didn't want to commit to you, yet she didn't want you to see other people and stay "committed" to her. If nothing else, she is in emotional limbo. That's not fair to you.

 

You have nothing to feel guilty about. In the end, you have to do what's right for you. I've told you a number of times that it is my opinion that you should move on from her. Yet, you still come around to the same basic question -- "Is there a chance"? Sure, there's a chance, a slim one and it will be many years before she is healthy enough emotionally. It sounds as though she's just in the very beginning of counseling. She will go through some very difficult times while in counseling as time goes by.

[Lois_Griffin]

Forgetting all the psycho-babble in this thread, what are you hoping to achieve by being the MUCH older knight in shining armor here?

 

Why are you buying a girl you met online - that you yourself admit is "much, much younger' than you - a ring and paying her bills and moving heaven and earth to supposedly get her out of some abusive relationship?

 

Then you travel 4000 miles to fall on the sword for her yet again and she tells you that you 'suck in bed' and claims to still be 'in love' with her abusive ex?

 

WTF? What is the payoff for you in this dysfunctional waltz?

 

This whole thing is creepy.

 

Methinks you're nothing more than a daddy figure to her whose sending her money and expensive rings. Boy, did she fall into it; you're her cash cow. You'll never see that ring again, she's probably hocked it.

 

Time to smarten up.

[sakasaka]

I've been through that before when I was younger... although it wasn't a family member but other men.

 

What I would say from my own experience is that it did not directly affect my relationships; rather indirectly, and what i mean by that is that I do display certain behaviour or say certain things because of what happened to me in the past without realising it.

 

I don't really think about it, but my boyfriend who knows about my past feels it sometimes.

[Guyouthere]

There is no definitive way for me to state categorically that she will never have a healthy relationship, I have not interviewed her. But based on many of things you've told me here, it is unlikely she can have a healthy relationship at least for quite sometime.

 

You have not abandoned her. You realized that there were some things about the relationship that weren't working for you. That is about taking care of yourself and wanting to be happy.

 

If she viewed it as abandonment, so be it. Whatever psychological issues she is dealing with, she didn't want to commit to you, yet she didn't want you to see other people and stay "committed" to her. If nothing else, she is in emotional limbo. That's not fair to you.

 

You have nothing to feel guilty about. In the end, you have to do what's right for you. I've told you a number of times that it is my opinion that you should move on from her. Yet, you still come around to the same basic question -- "Is there a chance"? Sure, there's a chance, a slim one and it will be many years before she is healthy enough emotionally. It sounds as though she's just in the very beginning of counseling. She will go through some very difficult times while in counseling as time goes by.

 

Yes, totally agree, she isn't in any condition right now to be in a relationship. She has a lot of issues, and I never realized how deep it went until you pointed out how it all works.

 

Do I want there to be a chance? Yes…. I can't say no because I would be lying, but it has started to sink into me that if she doesn't heal, at least I changed her life and "gave her a new life" by getting her out of the prison she was in.

 

Maybe over time, and in the future someday, she will come to realize all, and if it is Gods' Will, and she heals…at least we can talk again.

 

The counselor I know she is seeing is not trained in sexual abuse, as far as I know. I think the counselor is seeing is not all that great either, at least one of them,.. and I say that because I know one of them discouraged her from "following her dreams of studying".

 

I'll just be around for her, in case she comes back one day, but overall agree, I am not going to just focus on planning a life with her in the future. I know what I'm worth in life too. She has to see it, heal, and work for me in the future IF it happens.

[Guyouthere]

Forgetting all the psycho-babble in this thread, what are you hoping to achieve by being the MUCH older knight in shining armor here?

 

Why are you buying a girl you met online - that you yourself admit is "much, much younger' than you - a ring and paying her bills and moving heaven and earth to supposedly get her out of some abusive relationship?

 

Then you travel 4000 miles to fall on the sword for her yet again and she tells you that you 'suck in bed' and claims to still be 'in love' with her abusive ex?

 

WTF? What is the payoff for you in this dysfunctional waltz?

 

This whole thing is creepy.

 

Methinks you're nothing more than a daddy figure to her whose sending her money and expensive rings. Boy, did she fall into it; you're her cash cow. You'll never see that ring again, she's probably hocked it.

 

Time to smarten up.

 

How old are you if i might ask?

 

You are immature by your comments, really know nothing nor have you intelligently followed this thread.

 

There is no need for me to answer you further, and I won't.

[Guyouthere]

RH,…..

 

Can I ask…..?

 

How does Narcissism play into this situation?

[Redhead14]

RH,…..

 

Can I ask…..?

 

How does Narcissism play into this situation?

 

I have not seen enough if anything in your thread that suggests narcissism is a possible issue for her. It is unlikely that she is narcissistic to a disordered level given her history. In fact, she likely doesn't possess the ability to love herself on any level. Everyone who is emotionally healthy has some narcissistic traits but they are not disordered. It is healthy and normal and that is all related to self-esteem. She likely has very little, if any at all.

 

NPD could result from trauma in childhood but resulting from sexual abuse would be rare for a woman.

[Guyouthere]

RH, these are some of my observations I made,,, I posted this list in another thread.

 

Please give your assessment.

Mine never apologized for anything.

Said no one understood her.

Was a loner.

High functional level, intelligent and ambitious.

Said she "went into high work gear" when she felt "unpleasant"

Sometimes spoke to me as I was a child (when I made a mistake).

Couldn't take criticism if I gave her any.

Came across as cold at times.

Said too that she wanted to work with bipolar people/those abused because of her ex and exposure to it (evidently her dad and ex had it).

Mom and sisters were loving, she raised her sisters.

Made a comment last argument we had that "now I would spread lies", in reality she knows no one here.

Overall didn't do anything for me.

Saw commitment as codependency and not true love.

Said I didn't know what true love is.

I caught her hiding a guy, innocent or not, she once again tried to justify that we were broken up for a week prior (in reality this was not final).

Said she wasn't attracted to me physically (I took that only because I knew she was still not over her ex). No, I wouldn't accept that forever. She said "potential was there". I do know I could have done better, but I didn't feel love from her to "really get into it".

Prided herself as not being able to lie or hide her feelings.

Seemed paranoid at times, always said guys were looking at her, and the girl friends she went out with were jealous of her.

Said she was a healer.

Said she was "called to something special and had special gifts".

She did realize she has issues.

Evidently is either a liar and doesnt want to return the ring I gave her, or is waiting until she sorts herself out to see if she "still wants an us".

She has the all around belief/attitude "I am above everyones level", saying she "already passed lower levels of thinking".

She said she "has a high standard for guys".

 

Only thing I can see I did wrong here was be emotional and act immaturely a few times when dealing with all of this, but perhaps you can see why I was driven nuts…..

So maybe me acting as I did was more of a "reaction" than who I am.

Share

[Guyouthere]

I'm also looking back now and remember something specific that she said, even though she claimed she was "doing better"…….

 

She said (at times), that she was "very attached to her abusive ex boyfriend", but now I see she has chosen to hide a guy from me who actually looks a lot like him. I accidentally found this out while on my G+ page. She actually removed him from view within the space of 10 minutes.

 

There was an incident where her dad dragged her out into public and beat her hard, and because he caught her on the phone with a guy.

 

I'm thinking now too that she has put up a wall now too given the argument we had. She told me not to "hurt her", and I did, with words.

 

Any idea why she won't return my ring and other things (yet if ever?)

Edited September 25, 2015 by Guyouthere