3 months in, the "I love you," aspect...

[Hyperfocal]

So we are mid 30's, She has been a complicated and sometimes enigmatic one to figure out. Despite all that I do love her, for a while now. We are in a routine of about 3x a week dating, the typical stuff...

 

She says I am running the rel with my brain rather than my heart; I somewhat agree, I need a more open display of emotion with her. While I'm "normal, healthy, etc." She is asking for more emotionally, and I think I can deliver. Her communication style is a mix of eloquent mystery and blunt honesty, I've never been around one who can do both. She is not a player, really just has a different communication style.

 

So being I've never told her "I love you," any coaching on whether this should be something I do? If so I am thinking of a brief intro, then the line, trying to reduce any anxiety. Really love is not an on or off thing, I just think with the complexities of our communication, and things she's said about my (lack of) emotion I'm due to tell her "I love you,".

Thoughts? Consequences?

[Redhead14]

So we are mid 30's, She has been a complicated and sometimes enigmatic one to figure out. Despite all that I do love her, for a while now. We are in a routine of about 3x a week dating, the typical stuff...

 

She says I am running the rel with my brain rather than my heart; I somewhat agree, I need a more open display of emotion with her. While I'm "normal, healthy, etc." She is asking for more emotionally, and I think I can deliver. Her communication style is a mix of eloquent mystery and blunt honesty, I've never been around one who can do both. She is not a player, really just has a different communication style.

 

So being I've never told her "I love you," any coaching on whether this should be something I do? If so I am thinking of a brief intro, then the line, trying to reduce any anxiety. Really love is not an on or off thing, I just think with the complexities of our communication, and things she's said about my (lack of) emotion I'm due to tell her "I love you,".

Thoughts? Consequences?

 

I find this extremely interesting, Hyperfocal. This is the woman that you posted about and suspected SHE had a fear of intimacy?????

 

While I did see some indications based on what you wrote in the other thread that she may be FIS, I also felt as though you were being very cerebral in your approach with her. And, you are doing that now as well. Saying I love you and making a plan and rehearsing it, is cerebral. Saying I love you happens when the moment is right, it should happen naturally. If you making a plan out of it, it's gonna come off as insincere and not emotionally driven anyway.

 

I suspect that she is not saying she wants you to say I love you necessarily, I'd bet she is looking for more emotional intimacy from you. Do you compliment her, do you hold hands, do you talk about your feelings? She wants to see your softer side. Be in touch with your emotions, be relaxed and open. Get out of your head.

[Hyperfocal]

very cerebral in your approach

Funny, your words are her words, exactly what she said! (and yes we are speaking of the same woman)

 

Do you compliment her, do you hold hands, do you talk about your feelings?

I definitely do, even in public, hug kiss, all that frequently. I also do meaningful favors for her periodically w/o asking, she appreciates that. Talking about her feelings... to a lesser extent, more like "how was your day" than "how do you feel about such and such" there is a difference I guess.

 

A couple nights back she gave me a romantic massage, and it was quite nicely orchestrated at her place. I felt comfortable, expressed how I enjoyed how it felt, all that. Later on the phone she said I was just so rigid, she didn't feel anything back. Bear in mind she is a blunt talker, so these are not words of anger, she just says it how it is.

 

So I do have normal feelings, somehow the wires are getting disconnected.

 

Thx.

[kendahke]

I need a more open display of emotion with her. While I'm "normal, healthy, etc." She is asking for more emotionally, and I think I can deliver.

 

You are asking her for something you refuse to deliver? You won't even submit yourself to the process of trying to figure out if you can deliver? Perhaps her reluctance to give you a display of emotion is a direct result of you believing she's asking for too much when she's asking for the exact same thing. Two sides of the same coin, really.

 

 

So being I've never told her "I love you," any coaching on whether this should be something I do? If so I am thinking of a brief intro, then the line, trying to reduce any anxiety. Really love is not an on or off thing, I just think with the complexities of our communication, and things she's said about my (lack of) emotion I'm due to tell her "I love you,".

Thoughts? Consequences?

 

Seriously, you're overthinking this. Get out of your head already.

 

Only tell her that if you truly do love her.

Edited September 18, 2015 by kendahke

[Redhead14]

Funny, your words are her words, exactly what she said! (and yes we are speaking of the same woman)

 

I definitely do, even in public, hug kiss, all that frequently. I also do meaningful favors for her periodically w/o asking, she appreciates that. Talking about her feelings... to a lesser extent, more like "how was your day" than "how do you feel about such and such" there is a difference I guess.

 

A couple nights back she gave me a romantic massage, and it was quite nicely orchestrated at her place. I felt comfortable, expressed how I enjoyed how it felt, all that. Later on the phone she said I was just so rigid, she didn't feel anything back. Bear in mind she is a blunt talker, so these are not words of anger, she just says it how it is.

 

So I do have normal feelings, somehow the wires are getting disconnected.

 

Thx.

 

Your heart and mind are disconnected. I can "see" the stiffness just in your writing. You cannot truly express an emotion if you aren't in touch with it. Emotional walls are invisible but real just the same.

 

Some people can/will mimic emotions. They see how people act in certain situations and understand for instance, that couples who love each other hold hands in public. So, if they are in a relationship, they will hold the partners hand, but the emotions that should be attached to that just aren't at the surface.

 

If you do have emotional walls, it takes some time and dedication to break them down. A person has to actually sit down in a quiet place and sit with an emotion when it comes up. Oftentimes, when a person is in love but has emotional walls, what they experience if the love is coming to the surface, is anxiety and they will almost automatically shut that down. They do it with other emotions as well, like sadness, fear, etc.

 

It is a process of deep, personal exploration. A person has to consider their history as a child and look at what are likely some painful experiences.

 

You mentioned directing her to a counselor at one point. I'd say you should try that for yourself. The reason I find this really interesting now, is that it appears you may have some emotional unavailability but suspected it in her. That is a form of transference. Does she have traits, characteristics, mannerisms that resemble an important or influential person in your life who was somewhat distant? If so, you'll need to step back and "look" at her with fresh eyes so to speak.

 

This is a complex issue really and too complex to address here. It's not insurmountable without therapy.

[Hyperfocal]

You mentioned directing her to a counselor at one point. I'd say you should try that for yourself. The reason I find this really interesting now, is that it appears you may have some emotional unavailability but suspected it in her.

 

All your points are considered, but wanted to say that 2 days ago I did see a counselor (1st appt). He stated that he would need a clearer statement from her, examples, etc. to map this out. He spoke of the PTSD effect that I may have coming from an abusive marriage, it leads to this. I'll be back in his office in 2wks hopefully with a clearer understanding from her. And her situation has similarities; possibly we both have similar causes with diff manifestations, not sure.

 

My problems are probably a mix of a rough medical childhood with a rough marriage, this left a too-long stretch of difficulty. I have come a long way, apparently not long enough...

 

I would say I am most emotionally comfy with my kids, if I can extend that it's a start, but kid vs romantic partner are different to deal with.

[Redhead14]

All your points are considered, but wanted to say that 2 days ago I did see a counselor (1st appt). He stated that he would need a clearer statement from her, examples, etc. to map this out. He spoke of the PTSD effect that I may have coming from an abusive marriage, it leads to this. I'll be back in his office in 2wks hopefully with a clearer understanding from her. And her situation has similarities; possibly we both have similar causes with diff manifestations, not sure.

 

My problems are probably a mix of a rough medical childhood with a rough marriage, this left a too-long stretch of difficulty. I have come a long way, apparently not long enough...

 

I would say I am most emotionally comfy with my kids, if I can extend that it's a start, but kid vs romantic partner are different to deal with.

 

PTSD effect? Puey on that. The thing that stands out here is the childhood history. PTSD wouldn't manifest itself from a rough marriage, unless she was coming at you with axes and hammers. You may have some residual emotional effect from a bad marriage. But unless this woman is triggering you in some ways because her behavior or attitude or something is similar to you ex-wife's, I dont' buy the PTSD theory. This is rooted in childhood. I am not discounting the effect of a bad marriage on you emotionally, but I would not go to PTSD. Your childhood difficulties were compounded by the bad marriage. You do care very much about this woman, you are simply unable to fully tap into the emotions at the moment. Your ability to attach to her is weakened for sure.

 

And, yes, it is very typical to be able to have close emotional ties to children, good friends, relatives but not be able to have that with a romantic partner. Those relationships are still more "superficial" emotionally than a romantic relationship. That is one of the hallmark traits of FIS.

 

Bear in mind, that people with FIS often find themselves with partners who themselves have the same "condition". FIS manifests itself in a couple of ways or a combination: They fear abandonment or they fear engulfment and in the worst case scenario it's both. It's a lose, lose situation. They are in emotional limbo. I'd say for you, the effect of the bad marriage is about fear of engulfment -- losing yourself in the relationship.

 

It can be kind of a tangled thing to figure out. Stick with therapy. I'm not discrediting your therapist because I do understand the "theory" she's implying in mentioning PTSD, it's just too "big" for this situation. It's more about projecting the past experience into the present rather than "reliving" it unless you're experiencing flashbacks, etc. I doubt it though because you'd be kind of afraid of this new woman if that were happening. That doesn't sound to be the case.

[Celeste.Carol]

Do you all have great sex? Like climb the walls passionate. Say it in the throes of ecstasy, and see how she reacts. I say this because a lot of men will say it during sex but not actually mean it for the long run.

 

 

You can gauge her reaction and if it is fantastic, great, if you sense a bit of awkwardness then you also can get through it as in the throes of passion if the time is not right.

[Hyperfocal]

Thanks!

 

So, last night she calls on the phone and 20 minutes into banter "****, you know I feel we should not see each other anymore" She follows with 20 minutes of back and forth interview type talk, all calm, nobody's mad. I did go thru her 3 exes with her then: she reports each was duped partially or completely for the same "Lack of emotional bond with her." I advised her that she might be a hopeless romantic, might have an issue, she agrees. She and I cry at the end, but during the call it was like a press release in tone. During the call I told her I love her clearly directly, and she reciprocated (it was worded not as a means to change her mind, just matter of factly).

 

3 days earlier she did a super romantic seduction massage at her place, during the call she tells me that was a test of me, and that I did not respond with moans and such, I did nothing for her emotionally! She understands I appreciate it, but cannot express it well enough for her.

 

Naturally I am taking it hard, but my main close action plan is to:

1. Figure out how long I'll be emotionally wrecked, guesses? this is really bad.

2. Figure how I'll handle any return of her; she left communication open, she may call on me, that can happen at any point.

 

Do you all have great sex?

She often says it is excellent, I always felt the same.

 

PTSD effect? Puey on that.

Well, I have a lineage of medical challenges from childhood, and then the wifey, long time, strong intensity stress. My childhood was emotionally fair, medically should not have happened. I am medically well now. Edited September 19, 2015 by Hyperfocal

[Redhead14]

Thanks!

 

So, last night she calls on the phone and 20 minutes into banter "****, you know I feel we should not see each other anymore" She follows with 20 minutes of back and forth interview type talk, all calm, nobody's mad. I did go thru her 3 exes with her then: she reports each was duped partially or completely for the same "Lack of emotional bond with her." I advised her that she might be a hopeless romantic, might have an issue, she agrees. She and I cry at the end, but during the call it was like a press release in tone. During the call I told her I love her clearly directly, and she reciprocated (it was worded not as a means to change her mind, just matter of factly).

 

3 days earlier she did a super romantic seduction massage at her place, during the call she tells me that was a test of me, and that I did not respond with moans and such, I did nothing for her emotionally! She understands I appreciate it, but cannot express it well enough for her.

 

Naturally I am taking it hard, but my main close action plan is to:

1. Figure out how long I'll be emotionally wrecked, guesses? this is really bad.

2. Figure how I'll handle any return of her; she left communication open, she may call on me, that can happen at any point.

 

She often says it is excellent, I always felt the same.

 

Well, I have a lineage of medical challenges from childhood, and then the wifey, long time, strong intensity stress. My childhood was emotionally fair, medically should not have happened. I am medically well now.

 

I am sorry to hear this. It is important to reflect on the fact that in some ways I think you were trying to force this relationship on yourself really. Take some time for yourself. Be patient and kind to yourself.

 

Now is an opportunity for you to really get in touch with emotions and to properly process them so that they don't just stay "bottled" inside of you. Sit with the emotions, a little at a time.

 

Some people find it useful to pick a period of time each day, say 15 minutes to 1/2 an hour to grieve and allow particular emotions to come to the surface. And, at the end of that period, you force yourself to do something, anything that distracts you from it all. Go out with friends, do projects, things you've let slide, etc. Doing those things will give you a little since of accomplishment as well. It takes a little practice but if you do it each day, it will get a little bit easier. You should find that you need less time each day or so. If you find yourself becoming overwhelmed by a particular emotion or set of emotions, shorten the period and then start adding time to it.

[Maggie4]

It's like she's water sign and you are air sign. For example Scorpio and Gemini usually don't mix well. It's nobody's fault.