Self Help Books -- Question

May 15, 2005

I was in the bookstore tonight perusing the self-help aisle looking for books that would help me heal from being recently dumped. Then a thought occurred to me. There were hundreds of books specifically aimed toward women on how to recover from a break-up, but no such book targeted toward men.

My question is... Do you think that's because men don't care to recover, heal and learn from the experience, or could it be that they just instantly get over a woman they once professed to love and then move on right away to the next piece of a*s?

What do you think?

May 15, 2005

I bought Lovesick by Dr Frank Tallis. It talks about the pschology and history of guys in love with girls and then the guys are dumped. Its kind of nice to think even the ancient greeks and egyptians went through the same torture. Love is basically an innate thought to make you cling to someone else to increase reproduction rates. And maybe its because you think of the girl as a mother figure and you as the child and you feel helpless and panic without her. Who knows, but one thing is true, love = pain. Hopefully in another 10,000 years we will evolve to be immune to love's pains, but that doesn't seem likely.

May 15, 2005

My boyfriend of one year and I celebrated our anniversary last month. He took me to the place we first met, and then to a fancy restaurant. Gave me a card with a beautiful handwritten note of his love for me in which he said I was his treasure. A few days later he called me on the phone to tell me that his "heart wasn't in it", and he dumped me. On the phone.

To make things worse, I found out that he's most likely already dating some old "friend" of his.

So I go looking for books to help me understand the male brain, because I have so many unanswered questions. Like how on earth does the heart just shut off like that? How can he move on so quickly? And how do I escape this pain, when I still love him with all my heart?

May 15, 2005

I am going through the same thing. The person I was with for a very long time and who professed to love me has moved on overnight! I hinted that I wanted to break up, kind of like a cry for help about something that was bothering me that he did, that I thought he would apologize or provide an explanation for.

Instead, he just takes it that we're through after a few years of being together when the week before I was the only one, he loved me, blah blah blah.

I don't think men are capable to love as deeply as women are, maybe because they care more about sex than love and if their gf is no longer their gf, they quickly replace "her" i.e. the object that gives them sex that they pretend to love. There are exceptions with maybe 1 or 2% but on the whole I don't think they suffer from a broken heart.

I am in so much pain right now, yet I bet he is out having fun, drinking and for all I know in bed with another woman. They don't need self-help books because they are the cause of why they are written in the first place. They only help themselves to whatever feels good for their di** without caring about how they hurt women. They are self-serving pigs and cause more pain than is fair for a person to experience. I hate men at this monent.

May 15, 2005

I suppose a lot of it comes from the old "big boys don't cry" thing. I know few men who would actually go into a bookshop and buy a self help manual on recovering from a broken relationship. Actually, that goes for most women I know too. Nobody wants their ex bumping into them as they're handing over the Mastercard for a book called "Why he dumped you and how to make sure the next one doesn't get away!"

Perhaps the advent of Amazon is changing things a bit, and we'll see more books for men in the coming years.

The other thing is, and I know it's a generalisation with plenty of exceptions to prove the rule - but men do tend to take things less personally than women do. Think of a couple of 18 year old male friends falling out. Harsh words are spoken, fists fly...then it's forgotten by the next day. When female friends fall out, the process of reconciliation tends to be more tense and drawn out. With a great deal of analysis in between.

Perhaps we just have a greater tendency to define ourselves by our relationships with other people, and therefore put more effort into those relationships. If our interactions with other people start going wrong, women are more inclined to look internally for the cause. If someone is angry with us, rather than just saying "f*ck off then" we'll agonise over what it is we said or did to bring on the anger. That's no bad thing...the world would be a horrific place if nobody ever bothered to do that, but it does mean that we sometimes make life harder for ourselves than it needs to be. And it's a bit of a pisser when we don't feel that we're getting the same thought and effort paid back to us - but that's life I suppose.

Then when a romantic relationship ends, it's hard for us to hear that "the fire went out" or "we didn't have much in common." Our ears take in the words, and our brains immediately translate them as "It's your fault. You've started to bore me" or "I think your tastes and hobbies are vastly inferior to mine" etc. (And, of course, sometimes our brains may well be perfectly accurate in these translations).

I would say that increasingly men ARE becoming more interested in the concept of emotional intelligence - whether that's to apply it at work or in relationships. Still, when someone dumps you there's an inclination is to be angry not just with them but with their entire gender - hence "all men are pigs" "all women are bitches". Rationally, we know that all men aren't pigs, and all women aren't bitches...but it feels good to vent for a bit.

May 15, 2005

same thing that bothers me - how can anybody's heart change overnight?? One night he loved me and missed me etc.. the next day he was light years away emotionally.

I don't get that! I keep coming back to that thought..

Dumping someone over the phone, mail or any other impersonal medium is the worst class of break up. Takes a real jerk to do that. I don't give a damn for the motivation.

May 15, 2005

There's a lot of generalizing going on in this thread and that's unfortunate.

Some men get over things very quickly because they never really cared in the first place. But most men take things very hard, worse than women, in a break up and take longer to heal because they are unable to express or share their feelings as well as women. Most men take much longer to recover.

It may look like a man is moving along quickly. Because of their emotional immaturity, they are likely to start dating and doing strange things sooner only tomake it appear they are macho and that things like losing love don't bother them so much. Trust me, when you aren't looking they are on a shrink's couch or bawling their heads off behind closed doors. They don't eat for weeks. Even many of the men who do the dumping stay sick to their stomach for months.

Don't kid yourself in this thread. If you have the idea men don't love, you haven't been reading posts on this forum long enough. More men as for help recovering from break ups than women do.

That men don't really love is an absolute untruth. It may just appear that some don't. Perhaps that will change over time but right now society doesn't really paint too many pictures of men hurting emotionally in public.

May 15, 2005

Originally posted by Tony T
There's a lot of generalizing going on in this thread and that's unfortunate.

Some men get over things very quickly because they never really cared in the first place. But most men take things very hard, worse than women, in a break up and take longer to heal because they are unable to express or share their feelings as well as women. Most men take much longer to recover.

It may look like a man is moving along quickly. Because of their emotional immaturity, they are likely to start dating and doing strange things sooner only tomake it appear they are macho and that things like losing love don't bother them so much. Trust me, when you aren't looking they are on a shrink's couch or bawling their heads off behind closed doors. They don't eat for weeks. Even many of the men who do the dumping stay sick to their stomach for months.

Don't kid yourself in this thread. If you have the idea men don't love, you haven't been reading posts on this forum long enough. More men as for help recovering from break ups than women do.

That men don't really love is an absolute untruth. It may just appear that some don't. Perhaps that will change over time but right now society doesn't really paint too many pictures of men hurting emotionally in public.

Well, I agree, I'm a dumped girl to be sure, and it was a man that switched off his feelings. But he was immature, and that explainns lots I guess. Now, all that doesn't mean that I personally think men don't love or suffer from love lost... Women do that to men too. Like I duly read on some other threads...

19th century literature is full of examples of lovesick men. I believe it to be at least SOME reflection of reality....

May 15, 2005

Originally posted by whitewhale
19th century literature is full of examples of lovesick men. I believe it to be at least SOME reflection of reality....

Maybe in the past men had more respect for women and actually loved them. Today, women are depicted as nothing more than sexual objects with fake boobs. Once you lose one, on to the next one.

I really haven't seen a man all sick and not eat over a woman, that is a small tiny percentage and they don't represent the rest of that selfish overtestosteronized viagra popping heartless greedy insensitive gender.

May 15, 2005

Originally posted by Fun2BMe
Maybe in the past men had more respect for women and actually loved them. Today, women are depicted as nothing more than sexual objects with fake boobs. Once you lose one, on to the next one.

I really haven't seen a man all sick and not eat over a woman, that is a small tiny percentage and they don't represent the rest of that selfish overtestosteronized viagra popping heartless greedy insensitive gender.

Woah woah woah, unfair! I totally get how oyu women feel i wos told im the best girlfriend in the world, he loved me, he wanted my children one day, etc etc, then the next week he dummped me and 4 weeks later hes with somebody else. So i do see where you are comming from, it hurts realluy badly and it does leave you questioning the male species but i think this post wos a tad unfair! Ive seen many men not being able to eat, cant sleep, just as bad as us over relationship. So thats not fair. I think alot of it is men arent "allowed" to hurt as much as women, they can go to their friends and break down over a relationship. Of corse they CAN but society looks down on it. Thats wot i see the break up as. As for the actual moving on and deciding they dont love someone anymore i have no clue. That confuses me no end. But its truely not fair to say all men see women as sex objects cos i believe most of them dont, alot do yes but most of them dont! I also think when a guy breaks up with a girl the reason they move on and find someone else and avoid you in most cases is cos in orfder to fully move on they decide to fully detach from that ex. They dont want to see the pain theyve caused and they dont want to FEEL the pain they have so wot do they do? Get a new partner. For all we know they may not feel an ounce for them really. And i bet you behind closed door they arent sooo happy Also youve got to remember that guys run away alot quicker and faster when thre is a problem. Women want to talk it thorugh but guys will run away from it alot. And they might love you to bits but something is scaring them and they will RUN, find someone else, act liket hey dont give a ****, may even be nasty to you but i believe its to detach themselves. I believe they dont weant to feel, and that alot of the time they actually lie to THEMSELVES...

May 15, 2005

Let's all (girls) start being realistic for a change and face the hard facts instead of making excuses. We like to pretend that men really care when they don't by the comforting and worn out fale thought that they just don't express it. But they have no problem jumping in bed with another woman and getting into another relationship so fu****ing soon after a break up.

The truth is that they don't love deeply, and I am basing this on observation. I am not going to look at male behavior and make excuses, "well, he really does care but doesn't show it" or "if he's alone he is probably crying" and all that BS.

I think we women say that to comfort ourselves and make ourselves feel better. I have been in many long term relationships, and before they're 100% over my guy is already over it. I see this with my friend's bfs as well as all the other men I see.

Again, not all, their are the few exceptions, maybe 5% max, many of who will come to sites like this because they are actually hurting, but most of us will never have those men in our lives so it doesn't really apply to the theory since everything has exceptions.

I'm not going to keep my head in the sand and not face the fact that men do not love deeply, ie they are shallow when it comes to love. You can't claim to love someone and be ok dating someone else the next week.

That's why so many of them cheat, leaving their gfs devestated. A woman truly can love and will not be as tempted to cheat, but a man whose feelings are thin has no problem sticking his di** in any stripper, girl, anyone, while going home professing to supposedly love the woman they are with.

For me this is all true, it is my 100% experience and I am as you can tell, very very very fed up with it. I am sure there are others who have better experiences with men, maybe they are in denail about their true nature or are fooled like I always am, believing a man when he tells me he loves me, but again what I say is based on my observation of their behavior. They say they love, then before my tear has reached my chin they are fu**ing someone else.

I know I sound extremely disappointed in men. I hope I can feel better soon so I can move on with my life. He's already moved on, he supposedly loved me. I won't be seeing him buying any self-help books in my lifetime, nor will I see any of the other men who I've known.

May 15, 2005

Originally posted by Fun2BMe
Again, not all, their are the few exceptions, maybe 5% max, many of who will come to sites like this because they are actually hurting, but most of us will never have those men in our lives so it doesn't really apply to the theory since everything has exceptions.

I just can't agree with that. When I think of male acquaintances or friends of mine, I can think of lots of examples where a broken relationship has led to some worrying depression-linked behaviour.

Maybe you need to take a break from dating and get to know some men purely as friends.

May 15, 2005

Originally posted by lindya
I just can't agree with that. When I think of male acquaintances or friends of mine, I can think of lots of examples where a broken relationship has led to some worrying depression-linked behaviour.

Maybe you need to take a break from dating and get to know some men purely as friends.

#

I totally agree wit you!

Sorry but that post wos pretty much BS. Youve been hurt. So ahve i. But dont put all men in the same box and label em! I have some brilliant male friends who ahve been crushed to pieces over a break up. Like i sai in my other post men actusally arent "allowed" to shoe feelings..

Have a break from dating, big time!!

May 15, 2005

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken
I was in the bookstore tonight perusing the self-help aisle looking for books that would help me heal from being recently dumped. Then a thought occurred to me. There were hundreds of books specifically aimed toward women on how to recover from a break-up, but no such book targeted toward men.

My question is... Do you think that's because men don't care to recover, heal and learn from the experience, or could it be that they just instantly get over a woman they once professed to love and then move on right away to the next piece of a*s?

What do you think?

Most men recover in a bar, not a bookstore.

I didn't know there was a self-help aisle in the bookstore.

May 15, 2005

Let's all (girls) start being realistic for a change and face the hard facts instead of making excuses. We like to pretend that men really care when they don't by the comforting and worn out fale thought that they just don't express it. But they have no problem jumping in bed with another woman and getting into another relationship so fu****ing soon after a break up.

The truth is that they don't love deeply, and I am basing this on observation. I am not going to look at male behavior and make excuses, "well, he really does care but doesn't show it" or "if he's alone he is probably crying" and all that BS.

Bitterness = cynicism = willingness to make broad condemnatory generalizations. C'est la vie.

May 15, 2005

Look, logic tells me that of course not all guys are unfeeling jacka**es when it comes to break-ups. But just like some others here, I am a bit cynical right now. Because we've all heard the "We're not all bad" line before. And some of us have heard that from the very guys who ended up treating us like sh*t, and didn't even have the balls to dump us in person.

So if there are indeed some good men left in this world who wouldn't behave so deplorably, then I would encourage all of them to gang up on the jerks who are giving men a bad name. Tell your guy friends, brothers and sons that it is NOT okay to treat a woman like garbage, no matter if your feelings changed or not. At least have the decency to end the relationship as gently and respectfully as possible -- and ALWAYS end one relationship before you being pursuing another.

May 17, 2005

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken
At least have the decency to end the relationship as gently and respectfully as possible -- and ALWAYS end one relationship before you being pursuing another.

That's good advice but it's not like guys are going to listen to it.

May 17, 2005

Look, if the dumpee is really in love with the dumper, it is much harder to get dumped if you're a guy then if you're a girl. When a girl gets dumped she just has to go to a party or a bar and she will get hit on by lots of guys. She can meet a new person so much easier and faster. Also, since girls are more social, they talk about their problems to thier friends and their mom and they get reassured things will be ok.

On the other hand when a guy gets dumped, his self esteem is crushed, making it impossible to find new girls for a while. The last time I checked, girls don't take the initiative to strike up a conversation with a guy at a bar. And girls don't want to have anything to do with a guy that has absolutely no self confidence. Guy's friends just tell them to get drunk and find a new girl and don't worry about the ex. They like when you break up and encourage breakups, because it makes you hang out with them more. Guys can't talk to their moms about their problems, guys just try to keep the pain inside and be stoic about it, but sitting around alone and analyzing yourself and the relationship you had makes things worse.

But regardless, getting dumped sucks and makes you feel like you're incapable of relationships and that you'll never get married. Hopefully time makes everything work out eventually.

May 17, 2005

Saying that men can't love deeply is ridiculous. Not only do I know that is false based on my own experience, you can read that in any number of threads by male posters on this board. Women are not always helpless victims in relationships. There are plenty of women who have lied and cheated.

Selfishness and an uncaring attitude are not gender-specific traits. They are based on a person's individual character, not on their genitals.

To the OP, the books you see available in a bookstore are simply the result of supply and demand. More books targeted towards women does not mean that men love less, it just means that women buy more books of that nature. Do you really think that publishers care about who really loves more? No. They're interested in profit only. They will sell to the most lucrative demographic.

I'm a man who has purchased a couple self-help books but judging by my own bookshelf and those of my guy friends, versus women I know, it certainly appears that women buy more of those books. That can be for any number of reasons, but it doesn't have anything to do with a man's ability, or lack thereof, to love.

I think it's also important to point out that men get more s*** for showing their feelings. Not on this board, of course, and not even just from guys. Some women can be as guilty as some men of giving men s*** for displaying emotion. Men then are conditioned to not display as much, but that doesn't mean they don't or can't love or feel other emotions for that matter.

I'm sorry you're angry about your situation right now, but if your ex really did move on that easily, then he didn't really love you that much. But that's not to say that men as a whole cannot love deeply. That's an invalid conclusion to draw.

May 17, 2005

Originally posted by Fun2BMe
I really haven't seen a man all sick and not eat over a woman, that is a small tiny percentage and they don't represent the rest of that selfish overtestosteronized viagra popping heartless greedy insensitive gender.

I must be in that tiny percentage then. Have lost 12 lbs in a little over a week and to top it off, I can't sleep either.....If there is such a thing as being heartbroken and love sick, I have the classic symptoms.

May 17, 2005

Uh, hello!

Women like to talk, talk, talk things out, doesn't matter if it's orally or through the written word. They need to COMMUNICATE their feelings. Men (other than ConfusedinOC ), as much as they might feel emotion just as intensely as women, tend to keep in inside. They don't communicate. When men are lost, they don't stop and ask for help/directions... Women do, whether it's asking a gas station attendant or perusing the self-help section of Barnes & Noble.

May 17, 2005

You're making false generalizations. That may be true for some men and some women, but I can tell you from first hand experience that it's not always the case. I've been the more communicative of the two in my most recent relationships.

May 21, 2005

There are good men out there who treasure their relationships- my dad and stepmom have been married almost 20 years and they still act like newlyweds. My dad, who has always been open to discussing love and relationships with me, has always emphasized how important my stepmom, loving her, and treating her like a goddess are to him.

My dad is seven years older than my stepmom, and he was almost 40 when they got married. The moral? Guys mature emotionally at a slower rate than women- most of my life experience, along with books I've read, implies that most men under the age of 30 are not ready to commit, and have to grow into being emotionally mature, open and honest.

My advice? Start dating men 5-10 years older than you

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