Should I Give Up Pursuing LTRs?: A 31 Year Old Tires of Dating

[TheBathWater]

I am a 31 year old male, attractive/fit, successful, confident, highly educated, artistic, talented/creative, and funny. I've had a couple of LTRs – one for two years, another for five years on/off – both were in my early adulthood, strangely. I have since dated A LOT of women (probably in the hundreds), and hooked up with quite a few. I never thought of myself as a player, but my friends did. I always wanted a relationship, but the women I saw would just have sex with me until I pushed for more, and then they would leave. Those days sucked!

 

Since finishing graduate school a couple of years ago, I have become more selective and only date women who say they are looking for a relationship. This has made life somewhat easier. The vast majority of my dates come from the internet though since I am incredibly busy and hate approaching women based on their looks these days (only to find I have nothing in common with them when they start talking). I feel the women I date are sincere and believe a relationship is what they want, but when things start to progress I typically find they do not have the interpersonal skills or maturity to handle a relationship at all, and they give up easily and go back to dating at the slightest bump in the road. Most recently, a woman agreed to be exclusive with me after a couple of months of dating, and then cheated on me two days later.

 

Many of my female friends suggest that more and more women are cheating because they get bored easily and live in a hookup culture where sexuality and morals are loose, and women are forced to get validation through their sexuality. I worry that good, authentic, growing and loving relationships simply can't compete with the dynamics of today's western culture, and that if you want to date within the attractive pool of daters for a relationship, you are asking for trouble. Last night, at a liquor store, the owner - a suave and well-cultured man who has been around - told me that American women are the worst, and that I was only fooling myself if I ever thought one would ever stay with me and be a decent partner. Wow.

 

Anyway, for all of these reasons, I have been considering surrendering my faith and just being a lover – a realist of human relationships in today's world who acknowledges that love does exist, but that long-term love is increasingly expiring. Maybe in accepting that love is pithy, I will feel less heartache when it ends because I know it will, and at the same time experience love more fully when it is there because I have no illusions that more is possible. Love today, and for today only.

 

Does this sound crazy, or am I onto something? Has anyone else felt like their faith in relationships has been tested and they thought about ways to still have love without being alone? I believe in love, but I'm just not sure I believe in longevity anymore.

Edited September 13, 2015 by TunaInTheBrine

[Jules Dash]

I recognize a lot of what you described. Make sure you take a deep look at yourself to make sure you don't have committment issues. When you have committment issues, you tend to find a lot of fault with everyone else to justify avoiding long term attachments. I know the process very well.

[J21]

There are sure to be girls that are not into the hook up culture. Try focusing on them.

[lino]

I understand your feelings.

 

But I'll also say not to give up. In an ocean of entitled, shallow, materialistic, unaccountable and generally bad behaving women there are the very few who are of quality.

 

I managed to find one and I just put it down to pure luck.

 

Unfortunately media and popular culture has ingrained into women's minds that men are nothing more than a disposable commodity. It's instructed them to do whatever they want until they require a wallet and a sperm supply for when they want kids.

 

I'd say just keep doing what you are doing and hopefully someone genuine and of quality appears. It happened to me.

[Ruby Slippers]

I am a 31 year old male, attractive/fit, successful, confident, highly educated, artistic, talented/creative, and funny.

Then definitely don't stop looking for love, because good men are hard to find.

 

I have also observed a very nihilistic streak through dating culture these days. It seems to me that so many eligible men, even older men, just want casual, short-term playmates, instead of something deeper and more lasting.

 

I guess I'm old-fashioned in that I would like to create a happy home and shared history with one good man, and be there for each other until the end. I think it's also increasingly difficult to find this with American men, as they seem most seduced by the instant gratification culture.

 

I've tried to lighten up and just enjoy the journey, in the middle of all the madness. By now I've learned not to even get involved with anyone who isn't genuine and reliable. So keep dating, but be selective about who you get close to. Pass on those who are just passing time.

[Ruby Slippers]

Unfortunately media and popular culture has ingrained into women's minds that men are nothing more than a disposable commodity. It's instructed them to do whatever they want until they require a wallet and a sperm supply for when they want kids.

You're right. Growing up as a child of the 70s and 80s, I was absolutely brainwashed to believe "you don't need a man," and in fact, you'd better be able to take care of yourself because if you grow to rely on a man, he will inevitably cheat on you or otherwise let you down. Now I see this nefarious programming for what it is.

 

But I've never thought of men as commodities. If anything, I've been overly independent and wary of letting men provide for me financially, lest I feel obligated.

 

With age and experience, I've figured out that we're all fed a ton of BS social engineering that degrades our integrity. We're actively steered away from building strong, stable couples, families, tribes, and it's getting worse.

 

The only way out of the machine is to defy the programming and be human.

[Leigh 87]

I never give up personally no matter how many cheaters and liars I encounter.

 

Good things often comes to those who keep their hearts open.

 

The trick is to weed out the losers and people who just want casual early on.

 

I don't waste time on men who exhibit red flags early on. It's not worth it.

 

It may take years but if you're not open to a good woman the you could miss out on something meaningful.........

 

I am all for holding out for great mutual chemistry and attraction but I also want substance and won't bail if a man has anxiety, has a past or can't afford to wine and dine me. There are many women out there like myself who would rather just one decent man who we fancy as opposed to chasing giving up the moment things get tough.

 

My current bf I met randomly when I wasn't looking for him and I admit with all the dishonest men who just told me what I wanted to hear, it was hard for me to put goof faith in him at first. It's a good sign when a way will go out of her way to see you and make a real effort for you.......

[Jules Dash]

You're right. Growing up as a child of the 70s and 80s, I was absolutely brainwashed to believe "you don't need a man," and in fact, you'd better be able to take care of yourself because if you grow to rely on a man, he will inevitably cheat on you or otherwise let you down. Now I see this nefarious programming for what it is.

 

But I've never thought of men as commodities. If anything, I've been overly independent and wary of letting men provide for me financially, lest I feel obligated.

 

With age and experience, I've figured out that we're all fed a ton of BS social engineering that degrades our integrity. We're actively steered away from building strong, stable couples, families, tribes, and it's getting worse.

 

The only way out of the machine is to defy the programming and be human.

 

 

A truly wonderful post

[nescafe1982]

Many of my female friends suggest that more and more women are cheating because they get bored easily and live in a hookup culture where sexuality and morals are loose, and women are forced to get validation through their sexuality. I worry that good, authentic, growing and loving relationships simply can't compete with the dynamics of today's western culture, and that if you want to date within the attractive pool of daters for a relationship, you are asking for trouble. Last night, at a liquor store, the owner - a suave and well-cultured man who has been around - told me that American women are the worst, and that I was only fooling myself if I ever thought one would ever stay with me and be a decent partner. Wow.

 

Pardon OP because I know you're being thoughtful in your post, but this reads to me like a pastiche of the ugliest stereotypical ideas out there about women in their early thirties.

 

As a woman in my early thirties (who lived and dated in New England, also for grad school ) I feel compelled to say that this summation of womanhood as sliding inexorably into an immoral abyss is... well, flawed.

 

If you've been serial dating for a while and are feeling it leaves too much to be desired, I completely understand that. But I think that--if you have been serial dating for a while--your 'picker' might need to refurbishing.

 

You could try being a 'lover,' definitely, if you're no longer into an authentic monogamous relationship style. But if that authentic, intimate relationship is what you want, why settle when there are so many good women out there?

 

My advice? Lay off of dating for a while. Refocus on what you want, and let yourself recover from your dating fatigue. After some time, one of two things will happen. You might meet someone when you're not even looking (and that would be awesome! the best case scenario)... or alternatively, you can examine which priorities are most important to you and, when you hit the dating pool again, you will have a clearer idea of who to see again, and who to weed out early.

 

 

But the kind of women you want to meet are out there! You just have to find them. Good luck.

[fitnessfan365]

Most recently, a woman agreed to be exclusive with me after a couple of months of dating, and then cheated on me two days later.

 

I will admit...that SUCKS. Of course the glass half full version is that you found out who she was really soon. I mean would you rather have had her cheat on you after being together for a year or more?

 

I get that it's tempting to generalize when you have bad experiences. But in romance, you have to take things case by case. The more skeptical and jaded you become, the more you close yourself off to great opportunities. I've had a ton of bad experiences myself. But if I'd let it close me off to relationships, I never would've found something so good w-my GF. We're actually taking our first trip together in less than a week to Chicago. So good things do happen.

[Popsicle]

I must be hopelessly female or hopelessly into relationships because I don't even understand why so many men resort to casual sex in the absence of what they really want.

 

Admittedly, It does makes them seem like players. Any man I hear say that he wants or has casual sex, I automatically think he's a player/manwhore (real or wannabe), no matter what his story is and am turned off.

[highseas]

Bravo, Ruby Slippers!

 

Men and women need one another in long-term, stable, mutually dependent, loving relationships.

 

"The only way out of the machine is to defy the programming and be human."

 

That is like the last line of a defiant manifesto against BS, PC, and all that.

 

Bravo!

Edited September 13, 2015 by highseas

[40 Fonzarelli]

you ever thought about looking for love overseas?

[regine_phalange]

"I typically find they do not have the interpersonal skills or maturity to handle a relationship at all"

 

Can you please expand this thought? To understand what you mean and why.

[Woggle]

Try and build other areas of your life and a quality woman will come when you are not looking. That is how it worked for me.

[joseb]

 

With age and experience, I've figured out that we're all fed a ton of BS social engineering that degrades our integrity. We're actively steered away from building strong, stable couples, families, tribes, and it's getting worse.

 

The only way out of the machine is to defy the programming and be human.

 

Ruby, when you say we are fed this social engineering. Who is feeding it?

When I look around all I see is messages that you need to have a relationship. A marriage. Kids. To be accepted.

 

I don't see too many movies where the leading star is a happy single person (or at least they won't end up that way because they will see the errors of theirs ways and get hitched)

 

Personally I've done the long term faithful comitted relationship and I don't want it any more. I've been burned twice too often. I'm happy being single.

 

I suspect a lot of the older guys you are complaining about have been similarly burned, and don't want to (and can't affoard to) get burned any more. So they are choosing to avoid it.

[SmartDude]

There are a lot of people in the dating pool who are not looking for anything serious. Many are legitimately not ready for a new relationship. In this case having something that is agreed upon as casual is actually more ethical and honest.

 

Relationships go in cycles. When you have had all your fun dating, or you found all the answers you were looking for...or whatever, then you start looking for something more serious.

 

I am not sure if having a more serious attitude actually helps in finding the right partner. What if you just find another person who is "serious" about relationships and commitment? Being serious and being compatible are not equal.

[PrettyEmily77]

You're right. Growing up as a child of the 70s and 80s, I was absolutely brainwashed to believe "you don't need a man," and in fact, you'd better be able to take care of yourself because if you grow to rely on a man, he will inevitably cheat on you or otherwise let you down. Now I see this nefarious programming for what it is.

 

But I've never thought of men as commodities. If anything, I've been overly independent and wary of letting men provide for me financially, lest I feel obligated.

 

With age and experience, I've figured out that we're all fed a ton of BS social engineering that degrades our integrity. We're actively steered away from building strong, stable couples, families, tribes, and it's getting worse.

 

The only way out of the machine is to defy the programming and be human.

 

I kinda agree with you on the brainwashing thing, Ruby. I've always been my own person all aspects of my life, I'm financially settled and very independent and it's taken me a while to get used to the BF wanting to look after me / treating me to dates (he refuses full stop for me to pay for any dates out). At first I thought it was a sign he wanted to control me but now I realise it's his way of showing he cares and wants to look after me. I still feel a little guilty and it's definitely taken some time to adjust (it's a very big deal for me to accept that of a man) and probs the product of social conditioning and other personal stuff.

 

I do however think that it's not that difficult to find your own version of a good person - there are plenty around. They might not be single, available or compatible with you, but that's another story.

 

OP, don't despair. Once you know exactly what you're looking for in a woman (on top of that elusive 'chemistry' thing), it'll become easier. Maybe date less, but with more purpose .

[joseb]

 

OP, don't despair. Once you know exactly what you're looking for in a woman (on top of that elusive 'chemistry' thing), it'll become easier. Maybe date less, but with more purpose .

 

Yeah agree with focusing on fewer, better dates. A lot of people get abit frantic with dating and cant see the wood for the trees.

[Maggie4]

You're 31, had LTR's of 2 and 5 years in your adult years, that's 21+7 which brings it to age 28, then from 28 to 31 you dated hundreds of women. That's too many! And hook ups too? That sort of activity desensitizes you and changes you in ways you are not aware of. But women have radars that pick it up. If you've been with too many other women before, it shows.

[TheBathWater]

You're 31, had LTR's of 2 and 5 years in your adult years, that's 21+7 which brings it to age 28, then from 28 to 31 you dated hundreds of women. That's too many! And hook ups too? That sort of activity desensitizes you and changes you in ways you are not aware of. But women have radars that pick it up. If you've been with too many other women before, it shows.

 

My LTRs were 17-19, then about 21-26 on and off.

 

I suppose I have been with more women than most men I know, but I keep my sexual history private and this has not been an issue for me in dating. Occasionally, a woman will comment on my confidence and say she knows I'm experienced, but that she likes it. IME, most women want a man who is desirable to other women. As long as you don't act like an idiot about it and are a mature man, it will not disqualify you.

[TheBathWater]

"I typically find they do not have the interpersonal skills or maturity to handle a relationship at all"

 

Can you please expand this thought? To understand what you mean and why.

 

Poor conflict resolution skills, acting out instead of talking things out, inability to sit with boredom, talks badly about exes and failed dating situations every other hour, lack of empathy, anger issues, unwilling to see situations from other points of view than their own, wants to continue spending time with exes/guy friends who have feelings for them, etc... Not all in one woman though (yikes, that sounds like a nightmare!).

 

I understand we all have issues, but what makes the difference to me is self-awareness. When people are self-aware and willing to explore their growing edges, they tend to reflect rather than reflex, and use the relationship as an opportunity for growth rather than as a vehicle for exercising unresolved issues.

[TheBathWater]

Personally I've done the long term faithful comitted relationship and I don't want it any more. I've been burned twice too often. I'm happy being single.

 

I suspect a lot of the older guys you are complaining about have been similarly burned, and don't want to (and can't affoard to) get burned any more. So they are choosing to avoid it.

 

This.

 

As much as I want love, the idea of marriage absolutely terrifies me. I came from nothing (literally) and am now quite successful with a bright future. I've seen too many families torn apart because of fickle commitments, infidelity, boredom, etc... and the man loses it all. I do NOT want to go back to nothing

[nescafe1982]

I think FF365 is right one with this:

 

I get that it's tempting to generalize when you have bad experiences. But in romance, you have to take things case by case.

The tendency to take one's own limited experience and generalize it into an entire worldview or an indictment of the female gender will not only frustrate you. It will also affect who you date and how.

 

And perhaps most tragically, this kind of worldview also precludes the meaningful introspection that you'll need to correct your problem.

 

Taking a break--even a brief one--can give you perspective. And I think Woggle is absolutely right that sometimes, you meet the right person when you're just living your life rather than frantically hooking up (which sounds a lot like the women you're seeing... I'll note that for irony).

 

31 is WAY too young to give up!

Edited September 13, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
response to hydra deleted ~6

[PrettyEmily77]

Poor conflict resolution skills, acting out instead of talking things out, inability to sit with boredom, talks badly about exes and failed dating situations every other hour, lack of empathy, anger issues, unwilling to see situations from other points of view than their own, wants to continue spending time with exes/guy friends who have feelings for them, etc... Not all in one woman though (yikes, that sounds like a nightmare!).

 

I understand we all have issues, but what makes the difference to me is self-awareness. When people are self-aware and willing to explore their growing edges, they tend to reflect rather than reflex, and use the relationship as an opportunity for growth rather than as a vehicle for exercising unresolved issues.

 

Self-awareness isn't such a rare trait IME, whether in men or in women, so if you've often encountered all of the bolded in all the various women you've met or dated, either your compatibility radar is off, you focus on superficial stuff first and foremost or you have a very poor view of women in the first place.