How do you leave somebody when you love them?

[ChicagoSparty]

I'll try to keep it short...

 

We've been together for almost 3 years, and have known each other for over 20. We didn't start out dating....more like, we were reunited, started hooking up, kept hooking up. Things were good between us, though, and we ended up moving in together a little over a year ago. Then tried to make it a traditional relationship.

 

That sorta worked. It worked because we're both busy and don't see each other a lot. In a way, we were able to live in a little bit of a fantasy relationship, because we could avoid the realities of it simply with absence.

 

But over the last several months...the last 3 in particular...it has been breaking down. And it's not little stuff. It's all the big life stuff that we are not on the same page with. I have kids and don't want any more, she doesn't have kids but wanted them. I don't want to get married. I had planned, because I have summers off, to buy a cottage on a lake in the next state to live at with my kids over summers, but she doesn't get summers off, so she wouldn't be able to go there. The biggest one, though, is that we don't communicate well AT ALL. And by we, I mean 'she'. She is terrible at it, and it causes so much friction.

 

I truly do love her. I've tried everything. I've talked to her several times. I've made sure I was super patient and understanding. It's not working. Lots not really a tennable situation.

 

It seems like it needs to end. I can't pull the plug, though. We've recently had a few talks addressing things, and ending it has come up. And then I see her cry, and it kills me.

 

What do I do here?

[Waynester]

Difficult one. The first thing I would say though is, entering into a relationship with someone who doesn't have..but desires children is tough, especially when you have children already and don't want the same. It's not fair. To deny somebody the same things you already have isn't nice. I have children too, but when dating..if I saw that she didn't have children but wanted them, I either didn't get involved in the first place, or..if I liked her that much I knew I could not deny her the right to her own children. It wouldn't be fair, and would doom the relationship from the start.

 

Communication is so important, as you have found out. Is it that she simply doesn't like talking about or confronting feelings? Or that you argue very easily?

Sometimes when things are not working out, and you know in your heart it has no future, you have to be cruel to be kind..and let her go. She may then have an opportunity to meet a guy who wants the same as her, namely kids.

[mightycpa]

Why don't you tell her that she sucks at communications, and you are faced with two choices - fix it, or break it.

 

You don't love her. I don't doubt you like her a lot, but love? No way, Jose. Too many "buts".

 

I love you but:

 

I don't want to marry you.

I don't want your children.

I'm going to move away for the summer to be alone with me and my ex's kids.

 

Live with it. Oh, and BTW, your communication sucks.

 

Yeah, I don't think so. On second thought, cut her loose. Don't worry about her feelings, you'll be doing her a favor.

[ChicagoSparty]

Why don't you tell her that she sucks at communications, and you are faced with two choices - fix it, or break it.

 

You don't love her. I don't doubt you like her a lot, but love? No way, Jose. Too many "buts".

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't think so. On second thought, cut her loose. Don't worry about her feelings, you'll be doing her a favor.

 

Interesting, objective, not at all jaded or presumptuous response. Thank you.

 

Yeah, well....I told her all that stuff when we started hooking up. Not getting married again (to her or anybody), not having any more kids (with her or anybody), have life plans (that predate my involvement with her). I gave her, on numerous, numerous occasions....BEFORE a relationship really formed....all of the information she could have ever needed to make the best decision for herself. Because I actually communicated that stuff early. She told me early on that she doesn't even want kids, and never had a desire to get married.

 

I didn't move the goal posts while the ball was in the air. She did.

 

Of course I love her. If I didn't, this is a simple, easy decision...and one that would have been made long ago.

 

But you're right...I'm the jerk here.

[mightycpa]

Interesting, objective, not at all jaded or presumptuous response. Thank you.

 

Yeah, well....I told her all that stuff when we started hooking up. Not getting married again (to her or anybody), not having any more kids (with her or anybody), have life plans (that predate my involvement with her). I gave her, on numerous, numerous occasions....BEFORE a relationship really formed....all of the information she could have ever needed to make the best decision for herself. Because I actually communicated that stuff early. She told me early on that she doesn't even want kids, and never had a desire to get married.

 

I didn't move the goal posts while the ball was in the air. She did.

 

Of course I love her. If I didn't, this is a simple, easy decision...and one that would have been made long ago.

 

But you're right...I'm the jerk here.

You're only a jerk if you keep things going. I'll take you at your word, she's changed. It happens, and I don't think anybody is at particular fault about that. Chalk it up to you being irresistible.

 

However, now that things have changed I would think that you need to rethink the relationship. For example, what if she'd wanted all that stuff when you first started dating? You probably wouldn't have bothered with her, because it would be too much trouble, too much pressure.

 

As for "love", I'm telling you, people actually mourn the children they didn't have with long lost loves. People in love are happy to make each other's babies. You're not, and I get that, it is probably a pretty practical consideration. And that's the point.

 

Maybe a better way of saying it would be that she loves you a lot more than you love her. Anyway, for reasons already stated, let her go.

[foolinlove79]

Having dated someone with kids who didnt want anymore i can see maybe how this has happened. When i first started dating my now ex i didnt really think about the long term. I liked him and so just accepted what he said about kids and not really worry about it. Only after a few years did i start to think about kids for myself. It sounds crazy i know but a lot of people do get involved and not really look at things that will be an issue down the track.

 

From an outsiders perspective you have major incompatibility issues. And these are not small differences that could be overcome. These are things that will affect the direction and outcome of your amd her life.

[ChicagoSparty]

Difficult one. The first thing I would say though is, entering into a relationship with someone who doesn't have..but desires children is tough, especially when you have children already and don't want the same. It's not fair. To deny somebody the same things you already have isn't nice. I have children too, but when dating..if I saw that she didn't have children but wanted them, I either didn't get involved in the first place, or..if I liked her that much I knew I could not deny her the right to her own children. It wouldn't be fair, and would doom the relationship from the start.

 

Communication is so important, as you have found out. Is it that she simply doesn't like talking about or confronting feelings? Or that you argue very easily?

Sometimes when things are not working out, and you know in your heart it has no future, you have to be cruel to be kind..and let her go. She may then have an opportunity to meet a guy who wants the same as her, namely kids.

As I stated in the other response, I didn't deny her anything. She knew my position, made it out like she was fine with that, and then 2 years later, suddenly this stuff is an issue. Then she said that she didn't care....those things were sacrifices she was willing to make for me, and that she wasn't even thinking about it anymore.

 

I did tell her after it came up that I never wanted to prevent her from having things she wanted. Gave her several opportunities to end it. She didn't want to.

 

Regarding her communication...she just doesn't like to. When something bothers her, she locks up...often for days. A lot of times, it has nothing to do with me. So I end up walking on eggshells until she comes back around.

 

We (I) have talked about it several times. I told her that shutting down doesn't work for me. It puts me in a position to speculate and to not know how or even if to help. And when you don't know somebody's wants or expectations, guessing can be really tricky.

 

I agree with your 'be cruel to be kind' statement. I'm just really, really bad at that. And truthfully, there are a lot of reasons to want to stay with her, so I find myself conflicted. Maybe it does have a future. Problems can be worked out. But the issues are so major that I feel helpless.

[catlady11]

I don't think you're the jerk. If you've been upfront and honest all along as you say then my opinion is she's been living in denial.

 

When you tell her how you feel what does she do? Does she immediately start to cry? Does she even try to listen? I think you're at the point where you have no choice but to simply end it. Don't back down. Reiterate once again to her why this isn't working for you and why it's not in her best interests.

 

You CAN pull the plug; problem is you don't want to hurt her and that's understandable but this situation isn't good for either of you.

[ChicagoSparty]

Having dated someone with kids who didnt want anymore i can see maybe how this has happened. When i first started dating my now ex i didnt really think about the long term. I liked him and so just accepted what he said about kids and not really worry about it. Only after a few years did i start to think about kids for myself. It sounds crazy i know but a lot of people do get involved and not really look at things that will be an issue down the track.

 

From an outsiders perspective you have major incompatibility issues. And these are not small differences that could be overcome. These are things that will affect the direction and outcome of your amd her life.

 

Thanks, I appreciate your insight. That's probably pretty close to how this HS unfolded. I have facilitated her and my kids forming a relationship (which now, I sort of wish I hadn't).

 

You're right about the major incompatibility. I've brought that up. But she's very good at making me feel that it doesn't matter and that she's OK with compromising for us. But those are HUGE compromises, and not likely ones she can just sweep under the rug and forget.

[BlueBlood]

You came on the net looking for relationship advise, OP. Be prepared for folks to not be 100% in your camp, and try and grow a thicker skin. Tbh, the post that annoyed you did have some valid points.

 

You have kids and life plans. Ever think that seeing you with your kids might have softened her stance on having kids herself? Maybe she sees you as a great dad. Maybe you've shown her how magical and wonderful parenthood can be. Here's the other thing: I could not imagine moving away from my SO every summer. He's my 'person', my teammate, my lover. A summer without him would suck. If he left me for a summer it would hurt. A lot. Even if you were upfront, sometimes in a relationship things deepen and intensify. Perhaps she is thinking to herself "but I would never leave him for months".. I don't know. I just know it's possible for people to alter their stance on things. Is that your fault? No. But you do seem rigid on your stance, and she seems to not really affect your choices.

 

One other thing? Are you sure she is bad at communicating or are you both speaking in different languages, here? She's crying and yet you're still just gonna do what you're gonna do? That's speaking of being in really different places...

[ChicagoSparty]

I don't think you're the jerk. If you've been upfront and honest all along as you say then my opinion is she's been living in denial.

 

When you tell her how you feel what does she do? Does she immediately start to cry? Does she even try to listen? I think you're at the point where you have no choice but to simply end it. Don't back down. Reiterate once again to her why this isn't working for you and why it's not in her best interests.

 

You CAN pull the plug; problem is you don't want to hurt her and that's understandable but this situation isn't good for either of you.

 

She doesn't immediately start to cry. It varies I guess. Sometimes she's objective, maybe analytical...other times she listens and we do talk constructively. Last weekend was a bad one, though, and she was crying.

[mrldii]

Put me on the side of doubting that you two love each other or - at the very least - that you love her; if all of these major lifestyle differences were evident and made known at the get-go (as you stated), then there was not much TO fall in love over.

 

It reads more that it's become an easy, comfortable habit for both of you; comfortable and comforting habits are hard to break. From everything I've ever read, the most successful way TO break a habit is to

 

quit, completely cold-turkey.

 

 

I don't think you're "the jerk, here"; it reads like you're trying to be an honest, stand-up guy who is [finally] being true to himself and that you realize exercising Your Truth will hurt her...and you don't want to do that.

 

Unfortunately, when relationships don't work out - whether it be in the first three weeks/months/years/decades - somebody often does get hurt. That's the price we pay for loving...or for acting like we're loving. ONE of you is going to have to break the habit; it reads like you've got the greater motivation to be the one to do it.

 

 

Best of luck to you, OP...

[ChicagoSparty]

Put me on the side of doubting that you two love each other or - at the very least - that you love her; if all of these major lifestyle differences were evident and made known at the get-go (as you stated), then there was not much TO fall in love over.

 

It reads more that it's become an easy, comfortable habit for both of you; comfortable and comforting habits are hard to break. From everything I've ever read, the most successful way TO break a habit is to

 

quit, completely cold-turkey.

 

 

I don't think you're "the jerk, here"; it reads like you're trying to be an honest, stand-up guy who is [finally] being true to himself and that you realize exercising Your Truth will hurt her...and you don't want to do that.

 

Unfortunately, when relationships don't work out - whether it be in the first three weeks/months/years/decades - somebody often does get hurt. That's the price we pay for loving...or for acting like we're loving. ONE of you is going to have to break the habit; it reads like you've got the greater motivation to be the one to do it.

 

 

Best of luck to you, OP...

 

This makes a lot of sense.

 

I just can't help but feel, 'What if I'm wrong?'. What if all it takes for this to be a successful relationship is the hard work that a successful relationship requires. I was with my XW for 14 years, so I understand the work it takes.

 

So, that doubt creeps in. What if what's really going on is I'm just not putting the work into it. It's been a difficult few months, as my mother was really sick and then passed away. What if I'm either emotionally exhausted or just not focused on our relationship, and I end it only to 'come to' a little while from now and realize that I killed something that could have been saved if only I had put in the effort?

 

It's a bit confusing right now, because I can't truly tell where my head and my heart are and why. I do know that I love her. Again, I've been married, started a family, etc...I feel like I have a decent grip on what's love and what's not (for me). So, that adds to the doubt.

[foolinlove79]

Thanks, I appreciate your insight. That's probably pretty close to how this HS unfolded. I have facilitated her and my kids forming a relationship (which now, I sort of wish I hadn't).

 

You're right about the major incompatibility. I've brought that up. But she's very good at making me feel that it doesn't matter and that she's OK with compromising for us. But those are HUGE compromises, and not likely ones she can just sweep under the rug and forget.

 

One word for you mate...resentment!! It will slowly kill your rs and get to the point where u hate each other. There are obviously some things in an rs that can and should be negotiated. I got to the point where i was like im giving up this and this and this for you and what are you doing for me??

[foolinlove79]

You are not on the same page...I suppose another way to look at it is you are doing both of you a favour by moving on. People and especially women i have found can stay in an rs for a long time in total denial and fundamentally unhappy for lots of reasons. What would happen if u broke up and she went on to meet someone and had kids and you maybe met someone who already had kids and didnt want anymore? Would that not be a better fit for bith of you? Fear should not dictate rs decisions. Fear of being alone or fear of hurting another person. Especially if both of you are not getting what you want and deserve from a partner.

[Blanco]

My last girlfriend has two children. I didn't see any future in it initially; I just enjoyed spending time with her and we agreed to keep things casual. That obviously changed.

 

I wasn't sure I even wanted kids when we started dating, so whether or not she wanted more didn't really matter to me. After we'd been dating close to a year, she mentioned a couple of times that she thought she maybe she'd want another one. By this point, I'd changed my mind and knew I probably wanted a kid. But that sort of stuff was way off for us at that time.

 

We moved in together two years ago, and the relationship started to erode for various reasons. When she began looking for houses last summer, it became obvious that she kind of saw me as being along for the ride. I was fine with it being HER house and me just paying half the bills, but it started to get hard to ignore that maybe we were just at different stages of our lives. She had decided she probably didn't want more kids. She didn't care if she got married. Those things didn't really gel with my feelings on those matters. We continued on, but I think that quiet awareness that we were wanting different things caused tension and drove us further apart.

 

We aren't together anymore and she's living the kind of life I think she's wanted: The two kids, an OK job, decent car, a house, and now she's dating someone whose life is a little more like hers. I'm naturally not crazy about the new guy, but in some ways, he's probably better suited for her at this time. He just divorced and so I doubt he really cares about marriage for now. He has two kids of his own and is in his forties, so I can't imagine he wants more (newborns, anyway; obviously he'll get two more if their relationship progresses more).

 

At this time, I think both are probably just looking for companionship and not a whole lot else. Me? I want a kid eventually. I'd like to think I'll be with someone I'd want to marry. These are things that would've been more and more of an issue with us as time passed, and so while it hurts to no longer have that family unit I was in, it's almost certainly the best thing long-term.

[Holmes85]

ChicagoSparty,

 

How do you leave somebody when you love them?

 

You don't.

 

3 years is a long time to realise that you are not on the same page.

 

Moreover the reasons you put forth for justifying the breakup, in my own personal opinion are very petty.

 

I also doubt that you were able to communicate with her more openly and freely like you discussed here on this forum, which I think is what needs to happen.

 

All in all, it seems like you have already made up your mind to throw the towel, the sooner the breakup occurs for her, the better, so she can find someone who is on the same page as her.

[ChicagoSparty]

ChicagoSparty,

 

 

 

You don't.

 

3 years is a long time to realise that you are not on the same page.

 

Moreover the reasons you put forth for justifying the breakup, in my own personal opinion are very petty.

 

I also doubt that you were able to communicate with her more openly and freely like you discussed here on this forum, which I think is what needs to happen.

 

All in all, it seems like you have already made up your mind to throw the towel, the sooner the breakup occurs for her, the better, so she can find someone who is on the same page as her.

 

Wanting completely different things out of life is a petty reason to end a relationship? Really? Asking somebody to change their life plans for them is petty?

 

And yes...I have openly and freely communicated all that and more to her. I don't have a problem communicating...I actually prefer it. And I communicate fairly and non-confrontationally. She doesn't want to communicate. And when she does, it's often aggressively and angrily...finger pointing and swearing.

 

Lastly, as I stated in the op....3 years is a long time to realize that we're not on the same page. However, we didn't start out dating and building a relationship in any sort of traditional way. We knew each other, started hooking up, and then just kept hooking up. It was always explicitly stated, BY HER, that we had no future, it wasn't going anywhere, etc. I was fine with that, and just lived in it day by day.

 

Somewhere along the way, things changed. The expectations changed. It was after that when I started to look at the relationship objectively from a relationship point of view and not a hooking up point of view. When we were just hooking up, those issues didn't matter and really weren't even thought of.

 

So, things changed. Yes, I do love her. If I didn't, I would just say goodbye and walk out. I'm not desperate, lonely or weak. I'm independent and don't need a relationship. If I didn't love her, I'm not on LS asking for input. I just walk.

[adiamond]

Communicating is important but the whole point of communicating is to resolve your problems and work together to find compromise and a solution. If you're trying to communicate over and over again that you don't want to marry her, want children anymore and you're moving away for the summer. And she has already communicated with you that she wants children, to be married and wants to be with you, there is really no more communication that can be done. It's about trying to resolve your guys problems and compromise at this point. One of you guys are going to have change your minds or a break up is 100% in your future.

 

The question is, how much do you want to be with her in the future? Do want more than anything to make her happy and make her feel like the luckiest woman in the world? Does being with her make you feel so happy, and everything is right in the world when you guys are together? Do you picture going on adventures together, and coming home at the end of the day to see her? I feel like that is what it means to be REALLY in love.

 

If someone told me they didn't want to start a family with me or marry me, I'd feel really freakin sad. I mean I think that you love her, but it just seems to me, you aren't totally IN love with her. People IN love make it work through thick and thin.

Edited September 12, 2015 by adiamond

[ChicagoSparty]

Let me give some background on my seemingly hard stances on some of these issues...

 

I did the married thing....for quite a while. Our relationship lasted for 14 years. During those 14 years, I made one life concession after another. There wasn't any compromise in my direction. Just me giving up doing things, giving up plans and dreams so that we could live the life that largely she wanted. At the time, I was dumb and thought I was doing the right thing.

 

Well, the marriage ends...and now, because we have kids, I'm very limited on where I can live. Having spent a lot of time growing up and in early college in the mountain West of the U.S., I would give anything to go back there. I really am no fan of the Midwest, and not really much of a fan of Chicago. But, it's kinda where I'm stuck for at least the next 13 years.

 

I don't want to do that again. I don't want to come up with a life that works for me and then have to totally give it up because I end up in a relationship.

 

And I don't want to have any more kids. I have 3, and the oldest is 9. That's a TON of work....moreso because they live a few hours away.

 

Those are just decisions I made after my ex and I split up, and BEFORE I started seeing this other girl. They have nothing to do with her. And....I just don't want to make more decisions that are going to result in me further compromising how I want to live the rest of my life.

[ChicagoSparty]

All of the above being said....

 

I do see her fitting in to my life long-term. If we can get several issues ironed out, then that changes everything. She has claimed that she is willing to compromise on the marriage/kids thing to be with me, but I don't fully believe her. I feel like it's going to be an always present undercurrent, and will lead to resentment. Those things don't just go away.

 

And the whole lake house idea. Why do I just have to give it up? She gets a lot of vacation time, personal days etc. Over 2.5 months, she can't do a few weeks at the lake plus a handful of 3-4 day weekends?

 

Finally....several of you have implied that I have an obligation to break up with her because I won't give her what she wants. If she really wants to get married and have kids, let's be honest...I'm not preventing her from that. She is. That's her decision. Why do I have to make her decisions for her? I don't get that.

 

If she decides to stay with somebody who has never indicated he wanted the same things, isn't it on her?

[mrldii]

...Finally....several of you have implied that I have an obligation to break up...

 

Guilty as charged. However, in my defense, I only say so because of what you, yourself, said:

 

I'll try to keep it short...

 

We've been together for almost 3 years, and have known each other for over 20. We didn't start out dating....more like, we were reunited, started hooking up, kept hooking up. Things were good between us, though, and we ended up moving in together a little over a year ago. Then tried to make it a traditional relationship.

 

That sorta worked. It worked because we're both busy and don't see each other a lot. In a way, we were able to live in a little bit of a fantasy relationship, because we could avoid the realities of it simply with absence.

 

But over the last several months...the last 3 in particular...it has been breaking down. And it's not little stuff. It's all the big life stuff that we are not on the same page with. I have kids and don't want any more, she doesn't have kids but wanted them. I don't want to get married. I had planned, because I have summers off, to buy a cottage on a lake in the next state to live at with my kids over summers, but she doesn't get summers off, so she wouldn't be able to go there. The biggest one, though, is that we don't communicate well AT ALL. And by we, I mean 'she'. She is terrible at it, and it causes so much friction.

 

I truly do love her. I've tried everything. I've talked to her several times. I've made sure I was super patient and understanding. It's not working. Lots not really a tennable situation.

 

It seems like it needs to end. I can't pull the plug, though. We've recently had a few talks addressing things, and ending it has come up. And then I see her cry, and it kills me.

 

What do I do here?

[ChicagoSparty]

Guilty as charged. However, in my defense, I only say so because of what you, yourself, said:

 

I hear you. And I'm aware.

 

I'm just not super quick to pull triggers or euthanize things. But, if I didn't see ample reason for hope...like, realistic hope...I would walk. It's those things that work that make me uncertain about moving on.

 

Maybe she IS ok with not having kids. Maybe she IS ok with not getting married. Maybe we CAN figure out how to communicate together. I don't know...I really don't.

[mrldii]

I hear you. And I'm aware.

 

I'm just not super quick to pull triggers or euthanize things. But, if I didn't see ample reason for hope...like, realistic hope...I would walk. It's those things that work that make me uncertain about moving on.

 

Maybe she IS ok with not having kids. Maybe she IS ok with not getting married. Maybe we CAN figure out how to communicate together. I don't know...I really don't.

 

Maybe. Maybe not. You know her, you, and her-and-you better than we do.

 

All I know, is what you write:

 

...I've tried everything. I've talked to her several times. I've made sure I was super patient and understanding. It's not working...

 

You've indicated she's perfectly willing to sacrifice having children of her own to be with you; you've indicated she's perfectly willing to NOT get married, since you don't want to. You indicated when you bring up breaking up, she cries.

 

Reads like she'll be perfectly willing to go along with your next phase in Your Perfect Life's Plan: coming and seeing you a couple of times each summer...maybe even making the visits over long weekends. I mean, why wouldn't she give up just a little more TO stay in a relationship...errr, I mean...to continue living with you (for 9 months out of the year)?

 

 

 

I get it. YOU get it's not right and it's not working, but you don't want to be The Bad Guy who ends it; it would be so much easier (on you) if she'd just come to her senses, huh?

[adiamond]

It sounds like the problems you had with your ex wife, you feel like this new girl will do the same to you. Maybe you guys can compromise on the marriage. Maybe she can have the ring and ceremony but can do without the licence. Maybe for kids, you guys can talk about having kids in the future depending on her age after being together for xx amount of time. If you aren't going to budge 100% and she isn't going to budge 100%, then it's not going to work.