lindya Posted May 14, 2005 Posted May 14, 2005 Being a social retard seems to be no barrier to the game of love. It would appear that Geeky Yet Shallow Arseholes do sometimes get the opportunity to crap on Too Nice For Their Own Good Stunners. Just about anyone can get laid if they really want to - hence undeniably attractive individuals can still get repeatedly hurt and cheated on by far less attractive partners who want to "even things out" a little. I'm watching a close friend have all her confidence drained away by a relationship like this right now - and it's as depressing as it is frustrating. For the boxing fans out there, I'm sure it's like watching a heavyweight champion being placed in handcuffs and ankle-cuffs so that he can be beaten to a pulp by a bantam-weight opponent. My friend's previous boyfriend was an absolute gem. Unfortunately the spark just seemed to go out of their relationship, and they split up by what seems to have been mutual agreement. Now she's with this monstrous individual. He struts around like some deformed god - kicking the beautiful mortal who worships at his feet. It's unbearable to witness. Anyone out there been in, or known someone in, a comparable relationship? How did you/they eventually get out of it? What, if anything, can friends do to help?
alphamale Posted May 14, 2005 Posted May 14, 2005 Originally posted by lindya Now she's with this monstrous individual. He struts around like some deformed god - kicking the beautiful mortal who worships at his feet. It's unbearable to witness. What, if anything, can friends do to help? your friend, LINDYA, will most likely stay with this dude for a long time mainly cause he is treating her like krap. women are funny like that. seems the worse u treat them the longer they stick around. in actuality, as her friend, there is not much you can do except distance yourself for her and her man if you don't approve of the relationship. good luck alpha
bstill Posted May 14, 2005 Posted May 14, 2005 "Being a social retard seems to be no barrier to the game of love. It would appear that Geeky Yet Shallow Arseholes do sometimes get the opportunity to crap on Too Nice For Their Own Good Stunners." It seems like you think all the abuse would just fine, or there wouldn't be any abuse at all, if the geeky arseholes were as smokin hot as your friend, or at least, that would be some justification. Would you be calling him arrogant and self-absorbed if he was attractive, and would those accusations carry the same sinister stigma inthe statemtn above? I doubt it. There is a difference between too nice for their own good and just plain stupid. These women you speak of are usually aware of how they are being treated. They either like it, are too stupid to leave, or don't think they can do better. your friend however, previously dated a "gem," so she knows she can do better. Does she like it? It doesn't sound that way. Is she stupid? I can't say what the answer would be, but for her benefit, lets say no. In the end, I d be willing to bet your assessment of the ugly guy leveling the playing field has a lot to do with your own predjudices regarding looks. "I'm sure it's like watching a heavyweight champion being placed in handcuffs and ankle-cuffs so that he can be beaten to a pulp by a bantam-weight opponent." I think your analysis is pretty insulting and arrogant, as if beautiful peole should only be treated poorly by other people, and I wouldn't speak it louldy in a crowded room. Being a social retard doesn't mean that retard will abuse whoever is romantically interested in them, and a beautiful social butterfly is just as likely to treat their partner poorly. You seem to ahve made up your mind that a better looking person wouldn't be treating her poorly, or think that she has done him an incredible favor---as if you think "she has so much beauty and goodness and decided to be nice to the mean ugly one"--- and he is just ungrateful. IF there is anyone you have mentioned in your post that is the most skewed in their world view, it is you.
Author lindya Posted May 14, 2005 Author Posted May 14, 2005 Originally posted by bstill IF there is anyone you have mentioned in your post that is the most skewed in their world view, it is you. Perhaps. Or maybe when someone is treating a friend of mine like crap, I just feel like insulting them. It happens. Don't take it personally.
westernxer Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 There's nothing you can do if your friend's in love with him. Monster's have a certain sex appeal that makes the ladies go crazy. Maybe... never mind. Just wait until he kicks her to the curb. Then you can both bitch about him together. By the way, why did the spark die out in her previous relationship? Was it due to the fact that the guy was an absolute gem?
Three of Swords Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale your friend, LINDYA, will most likely stay with this dude for a long time mainly cause he is treating her like krap. women are funny like that. seems the worse u treat them the longer they stick around. Alpha - why do you suppose that is?
Author lindya Posted May 15, 2005 Author Posted May 15, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer By the way, why did the spark die out in her previous relationship? Was it due to the fact that the guy was an absolute gem? They had a strong bond from having known eachother a long time, but it had become became almost like a "family" rather than a "romantic" relationship for both of them. Fine in a 30 year long marriage, perhaps, but not so good for two people in their early 30s. Although the break-up was mutual it was obviously sad time for the two of them. I think she took it harder (her ex is a very robust and down to earth character) - and I think she started going out with this character on the rebound, and because she found it strange to be on her own. He - current "beau" - has got a multitude of insecurities...about her previous relationship, about guys looking at her when she's out, about her job, her intelligence...etc. These insecurities manifest themselves in horrible ways. She seems to feel personally responsible for his feelings of inadequacy - and right from the start of the relationship, I would say, embarked on this foolish mission of belittling herself in order to make him feel better. The only time he responds enthusiastically and approvingly towards her (in public, at least) is when she's putting herself down. On two occasions (that she's mentioned) when he's got drunk, he's become slightly violent towards her. Not to a "requiring medical attention"extent, but nonetheless it's worrying. She doesn't really have much relationship experience - having been with the same guy for such a long time. She underplays this man's nastiness towards her, and is convinced that he's only being a s*** because of something she's doing wrong. If she can only work out what's wrong and change it, everything will be fine and she'll somehow be a better, nicer person. That's maybe one of the reasons a lot of people (men and women) stay with partners who treat them badly. I have had a bad feeling about this guy from the first moment I met him, and I cannot bring myself to spend time with both of them together now. I know her other friends feel the same way. Tired as we are about hearing all the soap opera drama stuff, I don't think any of us have any intention of distancing ourselves from her as alpha suggested. I'm sure this man would be quite happy to isolate her from everyone who cares about her. Anyway - rant over. I'm sorry bstill if you found my initial post offensive and if you somehow got the idea that I think physically attractive people have the right to be treated like higher beings. I've heard about "high school social exclusion culture" in the States, and that it can leave some people feeling quite scarred or angry. Don't know how true that is, but it could explain why some people would feel a strong gut reaction against my post. UK schools have a different culture, or at least they did when I was in my teens. Most people liked to consider the height of cool as being whatever group they themselves belonged to - and you your acceptance into a particular group didn't depend upon how "beautiful" or "unbeautiful" you happened to be. It depended more on things like confidence, wit, hobbies, access to your parents' drinks cabinet. Stuff like that. So we were all equally cool or uncool in our own minds. I DON'T call this guy a geek because of the way he looks (actually, looks-wise he's average - no uglier and no better looking than most men I know). I call him a shallow geek because although he's very touchy, needy and riddled with insecurities about himself, he's completely indifferent towards anyone else's feelings and needs. And he thrives on trying to pinpoint and exploit other people's insecurities. Specifically my friend's. He also benefits sexually from the fact that he's got a good-looking girlfriend - ie admitting/boasting that women "come on to him more" now that he's with her. There's an implication that he's cheated on my friend a few times, though he hasn't come right out and said it to her. It's like he'll grab any opportunity he can to get one up on her. Bstill, it's impossible not to view him as a mean, ugly character who doesn't deserve to be with a good person. The signs that she's reaching the end of her tether are there, and her friends AND family are persuading her to think about counselling (though personally I think he's the one who needs to get his head looked at). She's considering it, so hopefully that will help her get the confidence to leave the relationship.
moimeme Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 If she's open to advice from you, suggest she read this: http://www.askheartbeat.com/html/signs.html
Author lindya Posted May 15, 2005 Author Posted May 15, 2005 Thanks Moimeme. Bar the criminal activities bit (as far as I know) he certainly engages in every other behaviour described. I'm not aware of any abuse in her childhood. She always talks about her family in very loving and affectionate terms, and there was certainly never any indication of abuse in her previous relationship. I suspect that she's suffering from a certain degree of middle-class guilt about having lived a relatively sheltered life - and maybe believes that she's had it too easy so far. Certainly he's always at pains to point out that she knows nothing about the real world, HE was educated at the University of Life etc etc Oh dear...am completely off topic with this thread. It probably belongs elsewhere.
westernxer Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Originally posted by lindya Thanks Moimeme. Bar the criminal activities bit (as far as I know) he certainly engages in every other behaviour described. I'm not aware of any abuse in her childhood. She always talks about her family in very loving and affectionate terms, and there was certainly never any indication of abuse in her previous relationship. I suspect that she's suffering from a certain degree of middle-class guilt about having lived a relatively sheltered life - and maybe believes that she's had it too easy so far. Certainly he's always at pains to point out that she knows nothing about the real world, HE was educated at the University of Life etc etc. Great, a guy with an inferiority complex. Does your friend really need to attend the School of Hard Knocks with this guy? Ridiculous! Nothing wrong with being sheltered, but she doesn't have to punish herself by falling for the Wolf Man. Pennance...
moimeme Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 You don't have to have experienced childhood abuse to take up with one of these guys. It is the idea that 'other people' end up in these relationships which lead people like your friend into them. 'Surely I'm too smart for that' is a path right to disaster.
alphamale Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Originally posted by Three of Swords Alpha - why do you suppose that is? because the bad boys know how to bring out both good and bad emotions and feelings in women. and we all know how women love to feel, feel, feel. "nice guy" cannot generate these emotions, especially the negative ones and therefore they are left out in the cold. any man who can bring out strong emotion in a female (both good and bad) will have her for a real long time.
moimeme Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Oh I have some strong emotions for some males and, trust me on this, it is for this exact reason I'll have nothing to do with such men. Gamesmanship is childish and addiction to drama is for the dysfunctional. So yes, there are some females who get off on drama. Then they grow up.
westernxer Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale because the bad boys know how to bring out both good and bad emotions and feelings in women. and we all know how women love to feel, feel, feel. Too true... I believe most would rather feel than think.
Author lindya Posted May 15, 2005 Author Posted May 15, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer Too true... I believe most would rather feel than think. Well, y'know - what with all those high grades we achieve at school and university, it's fun to take a break from thinking during our free time
westernxer Posted May 15, 2005 Posted May 15, 2005 Originally posted by lindya Well, y'know - what with all those high grades we achieve at school and university, it's fun to take a break from thinking during our free time As long as it isn't your friend in question.
Author lindya Posted May 15, 2005 Author Posted May 15, 2005 Originally posted by westernxer As long as it isn't your friend in question. I handed that one to you on a plate! Agreed, though. She's very bright academically, but the emotional intelligence needs a little development right now.
bstill Posted May 16, 2005 Posted May 16, 2005 "'m sorry bstill if you found my initial post offensive and if you somehow got the idea that I think physically attractive people have the right to be treated like higher beings. I've heard about "high school social exclusion culture" in the States, and that it can leave some people feeling quite scarred or angry. Don't know how true that is, but it could explain why some people would feel a strong gut reaction against my post." THis might have something to do with it. I'm sorry that I reacted so strongly to your post. While growing up, I had some of the things said about me that you said in your post, though it had nothing to do with how I looked or behaved, and everything to do with people's estimation of what I deserved. I didn't deserve a beautiful girlfriend because I had quit the basketball team after seeing the way they treated people. (I quit the team halfway through the post season; I'd been a starting point guard sicne I was a freshman. Because I was barely 5'4" and didn't grow until I was already playing, I got a lot of crap thrown atme about being too short to be any good). I didn't deserve to be considered worthwhile because I didn't wear logo laiden clothing. I have a very mediterranean complexion, and when you are surrounded by blond haired blue eyed kids who haven't seen an italian kid before, they thought the dark circles under my eyes were from weed, and was the brunt of jokes that way. I became very insecure, and didn't get over it until much later, but it cost me a relationship with a very beautiful woman who ultimately grew tired of me requiring constant reassurance that she was attracted to me, thought I was great, etc. I didn't take your post "personally" necessarily, but it brought back a lot of painful things in a way that hadn't been there in a long time. Please be aware that talking about another person in terms like you did in your initial post can have a very strong effect on some people. ANYWAY. Get your friend some help if sheneeds it, but you've got to be sure she doesn't enjoy some of the grief her boyfriend causes her. Women love that stuff, as has been pointed out. She may be complaining and genuinely unhappy, or she may be complainingjust because she likes to talk. remember nothing you can do will ever really change the relationship or dissolve it, and if it continues might cause you more confusion and hurt than it causes her. Some girls are like the guy with a credit card watching infomercials at 2 am; he knows he doesn't need it, he knows it isn't worthwhile, but dammit he is going to get that stuff. Girls sometimes are like this in relationships; the relationship is a credit card that acquires emotions she doesn't really need but enjoys having just for thesake of having them. I wonder frequently if women don't allow mistreatment simply because it gives them something to talk about with their friends.
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