kapelan Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 I'm 28, single and interested in a girl who is 26 also single and has a child. We've gone out on 6 dates in 4 weeks. I met her in one of my classes. Here's the thing, we haven't even held hands. I've tried to make advances, trust me. But even when I reach out for her hand she acts weird and pulls away and tucks her arms up. Once I held her hand for less than a minute and it was shaking non-stop. I've tried kissing her a few times and she moves away slightly and gets upset. I tried asking her what was up she said she wanted to go slow. I was about to move on but a couple days ago met up with some friends who know her. Said I was dating her, a few of them said they knew who she was. She dated a guy for a while who use to be a friend to a couple of them. They asked how it was going so I told them how we were moving slower than 8th graders. She was raped 9 years ago. By a gang as an initiation (rape a white girl, kill/beat a white boy). Someone who wants to be in that gang has to find a white girl and rape her, then the rest of the gang rapes her, sometimes kills her after. I told myself not to do it but googled it, found news articles on it and some court stuff. She was in the hospital for 5 months following the rape. Said there was 26 people in questioning. When she dated the friend of a friend, he spent 2 years just trying to get her to date him. Things went really slowly after that. My friends said eventually she acted normal, they dated for a couple years I think. It didn't take long for her to go out with me. We had a couple classes together last semester and talked a bit but not much. I asked her out when classes started a month ago and she said yes. But I don't know where to go from here. She has no clue that I know about the rape, I don't know if or when she planned on telling me. Do I tell her that I know? I don't know if I should continue seeing her or end it. Having a sexual relationship is something that I will need, I can wait a while. But I don't know how long or if she will even get to that point. TL;DR: Dating a girl with a child who was raped by a gang for a gang initiation. Gone on 6 dates and haven't even held hands. She doesn't know that I know about the rape. I don't know where to go from here.
Gloria25 Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Damsels in distress will always be distressed damsels.... 1
Jules Dash Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 It depends on your level of patience and how much you are interested in her. It could be a very slow, gradual thing. Do you have the patience for that sort of thing? You are not a monster if you don't. We all have our needs and look for them to be met in relationships or why even pursue coupling? Don't tell her you know about the rape. At least let her have that from that nightmare.
Author kapelan Posted September 8, 2015 Author Posted September 8, 2015 It depends on your level of patience and how much you are interested in her. It could be a very slow, gradual thing. Do you have the patience for that sort of thing? You are not a monster if you don't. We all have our needs and look for them to be met in relationships or why even pursue coupling? Don't tell her you know about the rape. At least let her have that from that nightmare. I honestly don't know if I have the patience or not. I've never been in this situation. The longest I've waited for sex is a few dates really, I think a month with a girlfriend I had about 10 years ago. So never having had to be patient I have no clue how long I could wait. I know I'll want to at least feel like we are a couple. If I'm not in a relationship I hook up with woman I've slept with in the past, so I've never gone very long without sex. She is a great girl though. Beautiful, smart, extremely nice, funny, likable. But I don't want her to get more invested and I can't handle it. I don't know how hard that is for her. I don't want to treat her different but knowing this information makes that difficult.
Fleur de cactus Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Please don't dump her because of her behavior right now, she is withholding sex because she is not sure. She is still afraid. You have to be patient with her. All she needs is time, you have to show her that you are a good person. She has to trust you. She needs someone who can assure her that she is ok now, that everything will be all right. DOnt say anything about the rape. If you do she may run away and hate you. ALways respect her wish. Keep in touch and let her know that you want to be intimate sometimes, and ask her why she does not seem interested in you. Maybe with convo about how you feel will lead her to tell you what happened to her. Then from there show empathy. Show more support to develop trust. Good luck.
Jules Dash Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 It doesn't sounds like she is for you then.
Grumpybutfun Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Damsels in distress will always be distressed damsels.... Gang rape isn't even remotely in the flippant damsel in distress trope. Trauma is a real thing, Gloria. This is a rather cold and flippant remark for an adult. Wow, Grumps OP, the only way to know for sure is to talk to her yourself. Rape by a gang has to be a traumatic event and will probably haunt her....it would be good to know if she is in therapy or if she still fears the gang. Only until you talk to her can you know the real truth behind her fears or hesitancy. Best, Grumps 14
writergal Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 I honestly don't know if I have the patience or not. I've never been in this situation. The longest I've waited for sex is a few dates really, I think a month with a girlfriend I had about 10 years ago. So never having had to be patient I have no clue how long I could wait. I know I'll want to at least feel like we are a couple. If I'm not in a relationship I hook up with woman I've slept with in the past, so I've never gone very long without sex. She is a great girl though. Beautiful, smart, extremely nice, funny, likable. But I don't want her to get more invested and I can't handle it. I don't know how hard that is for her. I don't want to treat her different but knowing this information makes that difficult. First, so her mutual friends of yours told you about her rape? Not very trustworthy friends of hers. They have no business gossiping about her to you or to anyone. What happened to her sounds horrific. But it shouldn't be treated like idle gossip, passed around the way it was to you. The right thing to do is to tell her that you know about her rape and tell her that its her friends who told you. She'll be angry with you (the messenger) and with that group of friends who told you, which is normal. I feel like it's disrespectful of her friends to gossip about that part of her life with you. They had no business sharing such private information with a total stranger. Because I think it's disrespectful to her since it puts her in a vulnerable position, and puts you in the position of knowing her painful secret before she feels comfortable enough to share that information with you, herself. Can you imagine how she will feel, once she finds out that you know that this happened to her? She will possibly feel betrayed by the friends that told you, and feel betrayed by you for withholding the fact that you knew this about her already before she felt comfortable enough to tell you. From your posts, it doesn't sound like you are emotionally prepared to take on a woman with that kind of sexual abuse in her past. It will never go away either. So, if you think that eventually it won't be a problem, think again. Women who are sexually abused (raped, molested, abused) never forget what happened to them and some adjust and recover better than others. See, it's not something you can pretend never happened and it's not something you have the right to ask her to forget and pretend didn't happen, to make you feel more comfortable and less awkward about it. It takes a mature man to handle something like this. A man who can be patient, kind, understanding and most of all, respectful and empathetic. If you can't be any of those things to her, then you're not ready to date her. I don't think you should pursue anything with her. I think you should just go on being platonic friends with her and seek out other single women to date instead. Plus there is the fact that she is a single Mom too. And as Cuba Gooding's character said to Tom Cruise's character in the movie Jerry Maguire, "Single mothers man...that's a sacred thing. A real man doesn't shoplift the pootie from a single mother." 5
Author kapelan Posted September 8, 2015 Author Posted September 8, 2015 I guess I'll need to talk to her and see if she'll open up to me. I'll ask if she's interested and why she is being so physically distant. We aren't official or exclusive yet. That hasn't been discussed at all as I was so confused by her actions. Would it even be normal sex? Or always really slow, careful, upset sex that I imagine.
guest569 Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Gang rape isn't even remotely in the flippant damsel in distress trope. Trauma is a real thing, Gloria. This is a rather cold and flippant remark for an adult. Wow, Grumps OP, the only way to know for sure is to talk to her yourself. Rape by a gang has to be a traumatic event and will probably haunt her....it would be good to know if she is in therapy or if she still fears the gang. Only until you talk to her can you know the real truth behind her fears or hesitancy. Best, Grumps Here, here. I was so shocked by that comment. What a horrific thing that woman has gone through. 4
Grumpybutfun Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 I honestly don't know if I have the patience or not. I've never been in this situation. The longest I've waited for sex is a few dates really, I think a month with a girlfriend I had about 10 years ago. So never having had to be patient I have no clue how long I could wait. I know I'll want to at least feel like we are a couple. If I'm not in a relationship I hook up with woman I've slept with in the past, so I've never gone very long without sex. She is a great girl though. Beautiful, smart, extremely nice, funny, likable. But I don't want her to get more invested and I can't handle it. I don't know how hard that is for her. I don't want to treat her different but knowing this information makes that difficult. Revision after your reply.....If sex is your first reactionary concern after finding out the woman you are dating was brutally raped by a gang...perhaps you need to kindly move on. She needs someone strong and compassionate. Be kind in letting her go, Grumps 11
guest569 Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 It seems to be all about you and your needs OP, rather than caring about the woman, what she has been through and helping her through it, you're wondering if the sex will be any good. 3
Gloria25 Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 I guess I'll need to talk to her and see if she'll open up to me. I'll ask if she's interested and why she is being so physically distant. We aren't official or exclusive yet. That hasn't been discussed at all as I was so confused by her actions. Would it even be normal sex? Or always really slow, careful, upset sex that I imagine. If you are not looking for a wife, then leave this chick alone.... While everyone says "sex" is necessary in a RL, they wanna ignore that sex means more to a woman. A woman "bonds" with a man when sex happens (unless she's got issues and/or is a manipulator). She's already been through the trauma of sexual assault. She doesn't need a string of guys having sex with her as part of so-called "relationship" - that he darn well knows he has no intention of every marrying her - and end up "pumped and dumped". While women say they can have sex like men and all that, fact is, sex after sex w/o it going anywhere chips away at women. So, her having sex with you just cuz "you need it" when she's just some girl you're gonna date till you get bored and move on is not cool.
Author kapelan Posted September 8, 2015 Author Posted September 8, 2015 First, so her mutual friends of yours told you about her rape? Not very trustworthy friends of hers. They have no business gossiping about her to you or to anyone. What happened to her sounds horrific. But it shouldn't be treated like idle gossip, passed around the way it was to you. The right thing to do is to tell her that you know about her rape and tell her that its her friends who told you. She'll be angry with you (the messenger) and with that group of friends who told you, which is normal. I feel like it's disrespectful of her friends to gossip about that part of her life with you. They had no business sharing such private information with a total stranger. Because I think it's disrespectful to her since it puts her in a vulnerable position, and puts you in the position of knowing her painful secret before she feels comfortable enough to share that information with you, herself. Can you imagine how she will feel, once she finds out that you know that this happened to her? She will possibly feel betrayed by the friends that told you, and feel betrayed by you for withholding the fact that you knew this about her already before she felt comfortable enough to tell you. From your posts, it doesn't sound like you are emotionally prepared to take on a woman with that kind of sexual abuse in her past. It will never go away either. So, if you think that eventually it won't be a problem, think again. Women who are sexually abused (raped, molested, abused) never forget what happened to them and some adjust and recover better than others. See, it's not something you can pretend never happened and it's not something you have the right to ask her to forget and pretend didn't happen, to make you feel more comfortable and less awkward about it. It takes a mature man to handle something like this. A man who can be patient, kind, understanding and most of all, respectful and empathetic. If you can't be any of those things to her, then you're not ready to date her. I don't think you should pursue anything with her. I think you should just go on being platonic friends with her and seek out other single women to date instead. Plus there is the fact that she is a single Mom too. And as Cuba Gooding's character said to Tom Cruise's character in the movie Jerry Maguire, "Single mothers man...that's a sacred thing. A real man doesn't shoplift the pootie from a single mother." Sorry if I wasn't clear. They are my friends, not hers. She dated a friend of one of my friends. I don't know the guy. He told them about it, which is how they knew and they told me. They haven't spoken to her since her and the guy broke up. But you are right. She probably would feel betrayed that I know and didn't say anything. But I don't want her to feel uncomfortable that I already know. I'm not sure which side to take with this one. I'm just trying to understand the situation more. I have never been with someone who was raped or abused in any way, that I know of. My friends said she was "normal" eventually. I didn't ask them to expand on that really. They just said she stopped acting "weird" and would hang out with them and talk to them. On a date we were on I noticed she wouldn't walk by a group of (black) men. She clearly avoided them. I suppose that makes sense now. If that's still an issue 9 years later I assume it always will be?
guest569 Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 A woman "bonds" with a man when sex happens (unless she's got issues and/or is a manipulator). Probably not during a gang rape though.. 2
Gloria25 Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Gang rape isn't even remotely in the flippant damsel in distress trope. Trauma is a real thing, Gloria. This is a rather cold and flippant remark for an adult. Wow, Grumps OP, the only way to know for sure is to talk to her yourself. Rape by a gang has to be a traumatic event and will probably haunt her....it would be good to know if she is in therapy or if she still fears the gang. Only until you talk to her can you know the real truth behind her fears or hesitancy. Best, Grumps The "trauma" didn't stop her from having a child out of wedlock...I mean, if she was "healthy" enough to engage in sex after the rape to the point she got preggo - then, all this "I wanna take it slow" stuff is a red flag to me. Seen it over and over, women who turn their trauma into a right to be cold, dismissive and/or abusive to men - well "certain" men.
writergal Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 I guess I'll need to talk to her and see if she'll open up to me. I'll ask if she's interested and why she is being so physically distant. We aren't official or exclusive yet. That hasn't been discussed at all as I was so confused by her actions. Would it even be normal sex? Or always really slow, careful, upset sex that I imagine. You already know why she's being hesitant about sex. There is zero confusion there. You need to own up to her that you know about her being gang raped, because her mutual friends told you. You owe it to her to be honest. If you can't be honest with her, you don't deserve to be with her. By respecting her enough to be honest with her, you giver her the chance to trust you. But if you withhold the fact that you know about her being gang raped, as a way to manipulate her and the situation to your advantage (so you can have sex), then please respect her and her daughter and go hook up with some other single woman. If your only goal here is to have sex with her and have that sex now, you have your priorities really mixed up. Is that literally all you care about where she's concerned? When she'll give it up to you? 1
Author kapelan Posted September 8, 2015 Author Posted September 8, 2015 It seems to be all about you and your needs OP, rather than caring about the woman, what she has been through and helping her through it, you're wondering if the sex will be any good. That is not my only concern. I have so many questions going through my head. I am thinking of a long term relationship, that is why I am thinking about the sex.
guest569 Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 The "trauma" didn't stop her from having a child out of wedlock...I mean, if she was "healthy" enough to engage in sex after the rape to the point she got preggo - then, all this "I wanna take it slow" stuff is a red flag to me. Seen it over and over, women who turn their trauma into a right to be cold, dismissive and/or abusive to men - well "certain" men. You've got to be kidding me, how heartless and.. Just downright bizarre. You think this is something that a person can just get over?? 9
Author kapelan Posted September 8, 2015 Author Posted September 8, 2015 The "trauma" didn't stop her from having a child out of wedlock...I mean, if she was "healthy" enough to engage in sex after the rape to the point she got preggo - then, all this "I wanna take it slow" stuff is a red flag to me. Seen it over and over, women who turn their trauma into a right to be cold, dismissive and/or abusive to men - well "certain" men. The child is 8 years old. 1
Author kapelan Posted September 8, 2015 Author Posted September 8, 2015 You already know why she's being hesitant about sex. There is zero confusion there. You need to own up to her that you know about her being gang raped, because her mutual friends told you. You owe it to her to be honest. If you can't be honest with her, you don't deserve to be with her. By respecting her enough to be honest with her, you giver her the chance to trust you. But if you withhold the fact that you know about her being gang raped, as a way to manipulate her and the situation to your advantage (so you can have sex), then please respect her and her daughter and go hook up with some other single woman. If your only goal here is to have sex with her and have that sex now, you have your priorities really mixed up. Is that literally all you care about where she's concerned? When she'll give it up to you? You make a good point. Not telling her that I know wouldn't help her trust me at all. And no, sex is not all that I care about. I didn't mean it to come off that way.
writergal Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Sorry if I wasn't clear. They are my friends, not hers. She dated a friend of one of my friends. I don't know the guy. He told them about it, which is how they knew and they told me. They haven't spoken to her since her and the guy broke up. But you are right. She probably would feel betrayed that I know and didn't say anything. But I don't want her to feel uncomfortable that I already know. I'm not sure which side to take with this one. I'm just trying to understand the situation more. I have never been with someone who was raped or abused in any way, that I know of. My friends said she was "normal" eventually. I didn't ask them to expand on that really. They just said she stopped acting "weird" and would hang out with them and talk to them. On a date we were on I noticed she wouldn't walk by a group of (black) men. She clearly avoided them. I suppose that makes sense now. If that's still an issue 9 years later I assume it always will be? I really don't see you and her as compatible. You're only concern seems to be "when can I have sex with her," and "will her gang rape always be an issue" as though it's a hindrance to your goal of having a normal sex life with her. You don't seem very compassionate about her situation at all -- especially if you're not willing to tell her that you know about her being gang raped. That information from your post tells me that you aren't focused on her emotional needs, as much as you are focused on fulfilling your own sexual needs; which seems kind of predatory to me. Please, please leave her alone. She will never be "normal." She will always have that painful memory of being gang raped. She will always be haunted by it. And she will require a romantic partner who is compassionate, understanding, patient and respectful of her and her daughter. I strongly suggest you move on and leave her alone. I don't think you're needs (have sex *now*) are aligned with hers. You don't seem to understand the gravity of her sexual abuse and how that can impact her life and the way she will raise her daughter where men and relationships are concerned. If you want to date her, you need to respect her and be honest with her about what you know and put your need for sex aside, for now. If you can't do that, you need to let her go. 2
Grumpybutfun Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 The child is 8 years old. Son, I think you are a good guy. I think you probably will be a great man, but right now that is a lot of responsibility for you to take on...trauma and a child. I think the idea that you go back to women you have sexed in the past if you aren't getting what you want shows a level of compulsion that makes it impossible for you to deal with someone who has had life kick them in the teeth. There is no shame in knowing your limits. It will save both of you a lot of heartache. Good luck, Grumps 3
Gloria25 Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 You've got to be kidding me, how heartless and.. Just downright bizarre. You think this is something that a person can just get over?? That's my point...is that they don't get over it... But, some of them turn on/off how much they tap into it. I was listening to a radio station where a woman called in, and she was recently married...had sex normally throughout the RL, but now is turning frigid to her husband and is all of a sudden reliving her sexual assault trauma. Thankfully, she called in for advice to address it, cuz she didn't feel it was fair for her to be one way (sexual) while dating, and now turning it off (no sex) now that they were married. But, some women could care less. My FWB's wife was a victim of sexual abuse. He pleaded with her to go to the doctor and wouldn't go. She was cold, abusive, etc....but "somehow" this didn't come up till after they were married. I think some women show a pattern - where when they get a guy they get comfy with - who for once shows them love, kindness, etc. they sorta go back to the trauma and use it to "punish" him. Like the becomes the "whipping boy" they let out all their fury, coldness, frustration on cuz they can't/couldn't do it to the guy(s) that abused them. Does it make sense, IMO, no...but hey, it happens.
carhill Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 Hmm, IMO, at that age, without substantive psychological help, probably time to move on. Otherwise, if choosing to remain, treat it like any other dating interaction. Get to know her. Sounds like the child is, or could be, the child of the rape interaction. If so, I married someone with similar history, except she chose an abortion, and it was a couple decades before we met and she had therapy in the interim and had been married twice so had substantial relationship history. Still, my style of taking things slow meshed well, though that wasn't due to any revelations. Whatever is natural for you is your style. If things work out with her, they do. If not, not.
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