Appreciate perspectives

[ah1295]

New here and could really use some advice and support for my situation. I guess it's a break or a breakup or a huge unresolved misunderstanding. Don't know what to do. My boyfriend was supposed to take me out a couple of weeks ago. The way I see it he stood me up. I contacted him that day when I hadn't heard from him to find out the plans. He said since we didn't talk he thought we weren't doing anything anymore and was now in middle of something else and offered me the next day. Now I definitely did not misunderstand that we had plans, which he asked for by the way.

 

This is not the first time he has done this to me and I think he didn't forget but chose to do something else. Needless to say, I was upset, I told him how it hurt me and was disrespectful and just went over the facts of what happened. I also felt like it was dishonest, not cheating but that he was making up getting confused so he could push our thing to next day. You know when you know someone you know their ways and if I'm honest with myself, I think I knew he was going to do this 4 days prior. I can tell because of how he starts acting. Also these things seem to happen right after a moment where we get really close which is what happened 4 days before.

 

I think I handled what I said very maturely. Basically concentrating on facts and how it made me feel without being pathetic. His had weak apology blaming something else for not following through. I did not respond to him saying we could do next day. I told him we shouldn't talk about it anymore at that point because I was upset. Saying that part only was only part where I feel maybe I was being unfair. Part of it was true that I didn't want to talk about it when I was upset and other part was to cut him off and show him how it feels somewhat when you are left waiting, like it feels when he stood me up. I know not communicating in midst of a disagreement is not the right thing to do. I had hoped with some time to see how much it upset me he would genuinely apologize and make a big effort. The two other times and were not speaking he did come around. By the way those 2 fights were for the exact same thing (one stand up, one cancellation). I felt like I had to be really strong with not contacting him so he would realize he can't do this to me. We don't fight about anything else.

 

I have gone 16 days no contact with him. We are both stubborn. He is almost rebellious. He's a good guy but if I know him he now feels so bad that he messed up that he doesn't know what to do. I also think he was giving me cooling off time that I said I wanted. I think he's put 3 different mutual friends up to poking around about me. I totally dropped all ways he could find out anything about me without actually directly reaching out. I haven't answered those friends which is not too weird. Ok last part I hate FB. There is this one girl friend of his who is sniffing around. I saw on FB that they hung out in friendly way the other day. I'm not usually jealous but in light of situation am incensed!! I don't think he has been cheating with her but I wouldn't be sure that nothing would happen in future. My closest friend who knows us both thinks nothing would happen because it would have already and she just likes a ton of attention from guys. He has alluded to not liking that about her either. She's rather fake. I haven't told any friends what is going on now with any of it. Don't want to be a loser or a downer and embarrassed. The girl he hung out with way less of an issue to me. In fact, I'm sure that's one reason he might be not contacting me because I said his excuse sounded dishonest. I meant generally dishonest. I don't think he was out with anyone else but was white lying so we could just go next day. Felt it was important that he knew he wasn't getting away with me believing it. I'm sure he takes offence to that word though since he's a good guy.

 

I'm really upset with the new information about that. Most importantly, I was already questioning if I did right thing to cut him off without more of a discussion. Logically I think he knew exactly what he was doing and would apologize if he wanted to continue with me. On other hand, I know he is probably rationalizing everything and thinking I overreacted. Trust me I'm not. Logically I know I should stick with no contact as it is my best chance. Emotionally, I'm a wreck. Help.

[d0nnivain]

Stay NC. Eventually you will heal.

 

 

While I suppose if you had both done things differently you may still be together you can't think like that. If I had picked different #s I would have won the lottery. Let go of the "what ifs."

 

 

Going forward, when there are problems in a relationship address them rather than breaking up in the heat of anger. But when you do make a rash decision like that stick to it.

[ah1295]

Do you think I really broke up with him? All I really said was I didn't feel like talking about it then because I was upset. I felt like he was in wrong and should reach out to me to apologize or at least try to follow through on that next day offer if he meant it and was sorry. I honestly thought flowers were going to show up at my house!

 

I won't get in contact with him I don't think but how could I have handled this differently. I'm really confused about how to have healthy communication. I thought I did fairly well but didn't think it would turn into this. Now I feel like its a miscommunication out of control. But if I contact him it sends the message that he can keep doing this to me.

 

Also I'm heartbroken. I'm only staying no contact because I think its only way to get him to stop doing this to me. I dont want to break up with him although i dont want a relationship where this will continue to happen. The other two times we did not speak it lasted about 7-10 days. I'm sure he knows I'm more serious this time around but if he had a genuine apology and made a genuine effort I'm sure we'd find a way through it.

 

Thanks for responding.

[quattrob]

Doesn't seem like he loves you and he's definitely not that into you. If he's "flakey" about plans with you and gives you the excuses he gave you for it not happening, it's because he didn't want to really hang out/take you out and/or he's not putting the effort in it. Why I say he's not putting effort or caring about being with you is because when there's plans or a mention to do something together, you wouldn't wait till you're asked the last minute and then give a bs excuse. No loving couples do that.

 

He may be a good guy in your eyes but he's not a good bf to you.

[ah1295]

Doesn't seem like he loves you and he's definitely not that into you. If he's "flakey" about plans with you and gives you the excuses he gave you for it not happening, it's because he didn't want to really hang out/take you out and/or he's not putting the effort in it. Why I say he's not putting effort or caring about being with you is because when there's plans or a mention to do something together, you wouldn't wait till you're asked the last minute and then give a bs excuse. No loving couples do that.

 

He may be a good guy in your eyes but he's not a good bf to you.

 

Thanks for the response. Well it hurts my heart to hear this perspective but I knew that I would hear some responses that would hurt. I'm hurting a lot today so I figured whatever.

 

Lack of effort and just trying switch the day on me like he's fine putting it off and it's not that important to him is why I was upset. I should have seen it coming because of the content of our contact in days before however I always see the good in him. Our contact is a certain way when he's about to flake and a different way when he's not going to. I try not to be inflexible but I thought this was only way. I can't explain how close we are but we are but he takes me for granted about my time. It just hurts me a lot and makes me feel unimportant to him. I do think he's into me, or was. I also think he is the kind of guy that needs a shake up. Nearly all my friends had to give their boyfriends one in one way or another. Somehow when it's you in it though it feels like so emotional and my confidence is wrecked. I agree though that continuing like this means he is not a good bf to me. That's why I don't think I will break no contact. As hard as it is to walk away from all the mutual connections we share, I have done that.

 

I just hate that it feels so unfinished. I don't mean closure. I don't need to dissect the relationship with him in any way. We just weren't even finished with the discussion about this miscommunication. Less than 5 sentences. Part of it was my doing so that's why I don't feel finished. Honestly, if he can't or won't keep plans with me, I don't want to be with him so I don't need to go into the entire relationship.

 

I was always planning if he apologized really well to not agree to jump right back to where we were. But make him just slowly get his way back in. A friend of mine did that to the guy she is married to. Different set of disagreements however after he broke up with her for 2nd time because he was scared to get more serious, she would only see him in private on things she was already doing like going on a hike. I was thinking something like that. With our situation how do you fix something with your bf when seeing him is part of the issue? It's affected my trust for him. I know that upsets him when I say that.

 

Sadly, flakey people is a common theme in my life. I get taken for granted a lot. There is so much bad stuff going on for me now that it feels impossible. Perfect example it's a holiday and two of my bosses have been calling me all day today for stuff that can wait until tomorrow. Absolute disrespect for my time. Other coworkers just don't let after hours stuff interrupt their life but I am very reliable. About a year ago I decided to stop accepting dealing with work things after hours since I am under no obligation to and it adversely affected my personal life and relationships. But let me tell you when people expect you to always be available, much like work and this guy, they don't like it when you stop being that person. I get so upset with the work calls even if I don't answer it ruins my weekend because it creates anxiety. I started last few weekends just putting my phone on do not disturb but you can still see if they've called, texted, emails if you look for other ones. And today I am sick and have a lot of other life **** going on and not going to do it. They can do what they want to me. I'm so fed up and at such a low point that this an accurate reflection of my life. There are several other major and unfortunately bad things going on in my life too.

 

This guy was the good thing in my life. I won't accept getting treated bad though because of it. I'm a little **** it with everything right now.

 

It's the regret of mishandling my end, if I did, or not finishing discussing it, to have possibly ended up with what I wanted that bothers me. If he wasn't going to give it to me, I wouldn't want to continue. And yes I'm disappointed that he wouldn't have made an effort to fix yet. He always has because he is one who messes up. When I've messed up, I apologize right away, which has happened 3 times total. Twice I didn't return his texts fast enough and once I don't think I overreacted but was willing to apologize for it since that's how he saw it.

 

I'm grateful for the people taking time to respond. I can't tell you how much it means when you are at this point.

Edited September 8, 2015 by ah1295

[Tobin]

I'm only staying no contact because I think its only way to get him to stop doing this to me

 

I was always planning if he apologized really well to not agree to jump right back to where we were. But make him just slowly get his way back in. A friend of mine did that to the guy she is married to.

 

So you're playing a childish, manipulative game to try to get him to act a certain way towards you. The result is that it's now 2.5 weeks without contact and you're in a trap of your own making.

 

You cut him off, and he decided the heck with you and your dramatics and you know what? He's probably making a wise choice.

 

With the next guy don't go the route of cutting him off and not talking to him in the hopes of modifying behavior. People are not dogs, and they don't like to be treated like dogs.

 

He has alluded to not liking that about her either. She's rather fake.

 

Oh, the irony.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Tobin

[ah1295]

So you're playing a childish, manipulative game to try to get him to act a certain way towards you. The result is that it's now 2.5 weeks without contact and you're in a trap of your own making.

 

You cut him off, and he decided the heck with you and your dramatics and you know what? He's probably making a wise choice.

 

With the next guy don't go the route of cutting him off and not talking to him in the hopes of modifying behavior. People are not dogs, and they don't like to be treated like dogs.

 

 

 

Oh, the irony.

 

Ok wow. How would you suggest dealing with someone that stood you up and has done it before? I really want to know since you seem to have an opposite perspective.

 

I wish I didn't have to do it but what else was I supposed to do? I didn't want to talk to him when I was upset and I thought he would call me the next day. That was half of it, a real and valid reason I think. The other half was a game I guess so he could see what it feels like. I feel like I'm at his beck and call. I always follow through with him and treat him very well. I just thought he might need to see that I wasn't always going to be so reliable and really was at my breaking point. You are very right that I'm in a trap of my own making. But I'm not sure it wouldn't have been better to just accept being stood up either or accept an inadequate excuse. And it was dumb. I've done that before and that's how I got here where he did it to me again.

 

I wasn't dramatic with him. I think in an argument I'm more like a guy behaves I need time to be alone first. I did cut him off by not wanting to talk then or following up the next day. I feel really guilty because that's not who I want to be to people who mean a lot to me. I also didn't feel like it was my responsibility to do that entirely and didn't have an answer of how I wanted to handle. He didn't try to contact me either and he's the one who was at fault. I did nothing but be excited about going and then contact him, giving him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't flaking on me again. I didn't call him names or judge his character or anything of the sort. I said I was upset, felt it was disrespectful and was too upset to keep talking about it then. The conversation didn't get ugly on either end. To be honest, I think he got what he wanted that day. I don't think he wanted to go out that night and because of having these issues in the past and me being too flexible, he thought he would get away with it by pushing it off to the next day. He was in middle of something which was more important than going out with me so he got what he wanted since he didn't have to go and I'm sure he also didn't want to keep dealing with it that day and thought I would forgive him and jump at chance to see him the next day since I always forgive him. So who is it that is getting treated like a dog?

 

He's not making a wise choice but I'm not going to grovel to try to prove it to him. I wish we could have an honest conversation about it and I don't really know what that would entail. I feel like I'm backed into a corner. I'm an amazing girlfriend and if anything too good to him. I'm not fake at all. Now you are just being mean. I'm sorry if something similar has happened to you and would appreciate your perspective if you can do it without calling me names. I can't imagine what might be going through his head and why he would have thought it was ok to do this to me.

Edited September 8, 2015 by ah1295

[quattrob]

I think he doesn't love you or care about you enough.. otherwise the stuff you were not satisfied about wouldn't be there. That's a redflag to me when your partner makes you feel like they don't want to spend time with you and disrespects you by not following through with plans. Not to mention not reaching out 2.5 weeks and counting.. if he really cares/loves you then he would've be the bigger man and suck it up contact you first to talk about it. At least that's what I do, I wouldn't wait 2.5+ weeks and counting.. the issue you guys are having shouldn't even be there if it was a good/healthy relationship so you vision of him being good in your life and him being good seems to be a fantasy that he put in your head and you seem to want to keep believing that.

 

I guarantee you if you were in a good, loving and healthy relationship the issue where he's flakey or just doesn't seem to follow through with plans wouldn't even exist, in fact it would be the total opposite. So hate to say this but no matter how you try to change him / manipulate him to react a certain way, it may work temporarily. In the end he can only truly change if he really wanted to and ultimately truly loves/cares for you. Sadly it doesn't seem like he truly loves or cares about you.

[Maggie4]

Since he has not contacted you all this time, I think he might be breaking up with you.

About the incident, are you upset that he wanted to change the date, or upset that he pretended you didn't make a firm plan? And does he know exactly why you're upset? What would have happened, if 4 days before the date, he had asked to change it to the next day? Would you have been easy going about that? Knowing him, would you say he is afraid of anything confrontational? If he started acting funny before he stood you up, then he probably cares and was stressed about it, otherwise he'd act normal.

I think there are other factors, for example, you said you were already fed up with people generally taking you for granted. So there were underlying problems. If the relationship was good, would you allow him to change plans at the last minute? For me, whether or not I'd be upset with a guy for doing that, really depends on how much I trust him. If I trust he is sincere and that he values me, he could do much worse things and it wouldn't bother me.

[ah1295]

I think he doesn't love you or care about you enough.. otherwise the stuff you were not satisfied about wouldn't be there. That's a redflag to me when your partner makes you feel like they don't want to spend time with you and disrespects you by not following through with plans. Not to mention not reaching out 2.5 weeks and counting.. if he really cares/loves you then he would've be the bigger man and suck it up contact you first to talk about it. At least that's what I do, I wouldn't wait 2.5+ weeks and counting.. the issue you guys are having shouldn't even be there if it was a good/healthy relationship so you vision of him being good in your life and him being good seems to be a fantasy that he put in your head and you seem to want to keep believing that.

 

I guarantee you if you were in a good, loving and healthy relationship the issue where he's flakey or just doesn't seem to follow through with plans wouldn't even exist, in fact it would be the total opposite. So hate to say this but no matter how you try to change him / manipulate him to react a certain way, it may work temporarily. In the end he can only truly change if he really wanted to and ultimately truly loves/cares for you. Sadly it doesn't seem like he truly loves or cares about you.

 

The stuff I'm not satisfied with is one and same issue that has come up several times. I don't know if truly loving or caring about me factors into to it at the point we disagreed, maybe now. I don't expect people not to make mistakes. I think we are in a standoff. That is now about being stubborn and each feeling right and hurt by the other.

 

But yes when it happened I did feel like it was a red flag that needed to be dealt with. I don't think I have a fantasy about him being better than he is. Rest is all good and felt very promising and I was excited about the future with him that he talked about to me. But I do think that this was major enough and had happened before that it could override the good stuff. I do see it as an indicator.

 

I don't think people should go off that I'm manipulative. I'm very far from it. I didn't want to talk to him. I didn't know what else to say or do and he wasn't twisting my arm to try at that moment. That is both of our personalities which is unfortunate when it reached this point. If people have ideas of how it would have been better to do it on my end knowing the story, I'd be curious to know. You, as a good guy yourself, are saying you would have reached out by now. He has done that in the past, 6 days one time and 13 days another time. I feel like this time is different because he knows I'm not going to keep doing this anymore so I do think he's considering the whole relationship, which is same as what I've been doing too. Don't most people do that when they've had major disagreement? I wouldn't want him to be a pushover and didn't want to be one myself. I do wish in some ways we had talked about it the next day and then it would have blown over. But that would be because I'm very forgiving not because he wasn't going to do something similar in future if I keep letting him do it to me.

 

Thanks for the response. I'm so exhausted with this now. I get that opening it up to others opinions just makes me more insecure about it in general. I think I need some action or inaction ideas so I know how to proceed. I take it yours is don't do anything, he would suck it up and contact. I think so too as much as I am tortured right now. I appreciate your opinion. Thanks.

Edited September 8, 2015 by ah1295

[ExpatInItaly]

I think you're both being a bit stubborn and silly at this point. I understand why you were upset and I think you had every right to be. However, you can't very well expect any changes if you go silent on him. He probably now assumes you've broken up with him.

 

The way forward would've been to take a day or two after the argument to collect your thoughts and then re-address it with him. You could've discussed both how his flakiness makes you feel and looked for ways to work on it so that you both felt you were having your needs met without drama. If you found he still wasn't putting in effort, you could've ended it with him.

 

I think you cut off your nose to spite your face here. Sure, he could be reaching out to you but I imagine he feels you won't speak to him anyway. He might just not be ready fry the type of relationship you want. How old are you both?

[ah1295]

Since he has not contacted you all this time, I think he might be breaking up with you.

About the incident, are you upset that he wanted to change the date, or upset that he pretended you didn't make a firm plan? And does he know exactly why you're upset? What would have happened, if 4 days before the date, he had asked to change it to the next day? Would you have been easy going about that? Knowing him, would you say he is afraid of anything confrontational? If he started acting funny before he stood you up, then he probably cares and was stressed about it, otherwise he'd act normal.

I think there are other factors, for example, you said you were already fed up with people generally taking you for granted. So there were underlying problems. If the relationship was good, would you allow him to change plans at the last minute? For me, whether or not I'd be upset with a guy for doing that, really depends on how much I trust him. If I trust he is sincere and that he values me, he could do much worse things and it wouldn't bother me.

 

Yes it's possible he's done. He's at a transition in life and it's part of the reason I think this has happened several times. I just think he will think he's not in best place right now. I don't see it like that but can't change his mind if he does.

 

I was upset that he was acting like plans hadn't been made and it felt like he was blowing me off for something else and tried to flip the story on me. He has done this before about same subject. Highly clever like that but I'm not stupid either. He has a difficult schedule already. I've been extremely flexible with it. I feel really bad when the little free time he has and he has asked me to spend with him and then stands me up for something else. I'm kind of wondering what could be more important than seeing me when it's been a while.

 

I guess I do feel good because I was clear with him about why I was upset and didn't go off on tangents. Just talked facts. So yes he knows exactly why I'm upset.

 

Well he only asked me 4 days before to spend time together. But if he asked me 2 days before if we could switch days around and was direct about it, I would have been really disappointed but agreed because he handled well. I did talk to him each of the days leading up to the day we were supposed to get together. He didn't say anything about needing to change it and I know his life so if he didn't want to go it meant he's not prioritizing me at all and blowing me off for something even of lower priority because he thinks he can get away with it. He's that type. Gets himself between a rock and a hard place and then prides himself on charming his way out of it. It works most of the time.

 

The problem is that I've been far too easygoing. Without going into an enormous amount of detail about his schedule and life and my schedule, but he has definitely not been prioritizing me because I am understanding about the rest of what he has going on. I believe in him and want to support him. I just gets ridiculous if he keeps lowering the bar. It had been awhile since we saw each other and I didn't even pressure him at all. Then when he asked for that day I thought great some of the other pressures of life have eased up. He appreciates how supportive I've been in letting him do his thing.

 

I think he is afraid to just deal with schedule stuff sometimes because this issue has caused the only problems we have. But most time he handles it very badly which causes more problems. Jerking me around. I think he has used little white lies blaming it on work most of the time so I can't get upset. Then I will catch something in something afterward he says where I know he's exaggerated the work requirement so it will have been legitimate excuse with me. And he's forgotten the white lie he told me. I don't think he's afraid too much of confrontation but would rather avoid the headache of it. Me too! I think he gets stressed but handles in a way that makes it worse than it would have been if he just dealt with it normally.

 

He started acting funny before. I think it just means he wasn't going to follow through and he knew it but I didn't know it. Usually if we are getting together, he will reference it a lot or mention some ideas of what we should do. Also he's much more in touch and if I mention some idea of what we should do, he will have input. If he is going to cancel on me, then he won't do those things. That's why I should have known. I have noticed that he sometimes cancels on me right after we gotten much closer as was the case this time. A leap in how close we are or how vulnerable we've been with each other, which is what happened 4 days before and 3 days before.

 

I have been feeling really taken for granted in life and it seems like he was doing same thing to me too. But I was not jumping down on him based on my other life stuff. I'm good about keeping situations separate but I have learned my lesson that if you let people jerk you around, they will. He himself has done this to me more times than is acceptable. Yes, I have allowed him to change plans many times at last minute. I started to feel that he didn't really want to see me and yes you are so right it is greatly affecting my trust with him. Because it always feels like the plans are tentative and one-sided since he can change his mind so I can't trust what he says. And then if there's an excuse, I can't trust that. Some of them have been awful excuses like this most recent time. The bigger issue is why wouldn't spending time with me be a top priority other than work. This time was especially hurtful because of each of our schedules it had been a really long time since we had been able to see one another so it isn't just something you blow off. Honestly there's a part of this that is just his personality, being scattered a bit and mischievous. I've been really lenient about all that because I don't mind that it's who he is and I love him for it. But standing me up is disrespectful. I think he can temporarily rationalize it and just tell himself he didn't do anything wrong and he gave me an alternate time but I know he knows what he was doing and doubt he would do that with someone he couldn't get away with it with and might lose her.

 

I didn't trust that he was sincere or valuing me and totally agree with your thinking on this. That's exactly the way I feel and why I did what I did. If I believe you, you could do worse things and it wouldn't bother me. That's why the girl thing doesn't bother me too much. I trust him with regards to that so far although it has made me anxious because of our current situation.

 

Thanks I really completely appreciate you taking the time to ask these detailed questions. I feel like you get it by the questions you asked. They most accurately are honing in on what is going on. Sad but grateful for this...

[ah1295]

I think you're both being a bit stubborn and silly at this point. I understand why you were upset and I think you had every right to be. However, you can't very well expect any changes if you go silent on him. He probably now assumes you've broken up with him.

 

The way forward would've been to take a day or two after the argument to collect your thoughts and then re-address it with him. You could've discussed both how his flakiness makes you feel and looked for ways to work on it so that you both felt you were having your needs met without drama. If you found he still wasn't putting in effort, you could've ended it with him.

 

I think you cut off your nose to spite your face here. Sure, he could be reaching out to you but I imagine he feels you won't speak to him anyway. He might just not be ready fry the type of relationship you want. How old are you both?

 

Yes all great points. I do think he's assuming I've broken up with him and won't speak to him. I actually kept waiting the first few days because I wasn't sure I wanted to. I have let him know in past how this makes me feel and told him that day as well without being too emotional or blaming him. Though knowing he was the cause of it probably didn't make him feel great. So I guess I was one step ahead of what you are saying to do, where I felt like it was like he wasn't putting in effort again. Our two previous fights were for same thing. Although in some ways there had been better effort and I felt like we were getting much closer. But then he still did this.

 

I'm really easygoing and relaxed about our relationship. If I could go back to the beginning sometimes I think it would have been better if I hadn't been. The more easygoing I am, the more he's been careless with my time even though he seems like he cares about me more since we gotten closer over time but it seems like he puts in less effort. We are mid 30s. I think he's ready for what we've got. We are very low key. I don't pressure him for more. I'm not that type of girlfriend. I would just walk away if a guy couldn't give me what I want. I think he think he's freaking out about his career though no matter how undemanding I am. I also know that he has a habit of getting down and sabotaging good things which I think might be what he is doing here. I don't want to beg any guy to see that I'm a good part of his life. If he doesn't believe that, it doesn't do any good to try to talk him into it.

 

What should I do? Do you think it's too late to reach out now? I'm not saying I will just knee jerk do that but what do you think? I think if I contact him at wrong moment at this point he will act like he's done and doesn't care. If it's a moment where he misses me or is feeling normal, he will be receptive but there's no way to tell when that will be. If I wait for him to contact me, then he will be motivated and I can be receptive.

 

Thanks for your response. Also really helpful!

[ExpatInItaly]

Yes all great points. I do think he's assuming I've broken up with him and won't speak to him. I actually kept waiting the first few days because I wasn't sure I wanted to. I have let him know in past how this makes me feel and told him that day as well without being too emotional or blaming him. Though knowing he was the cause of it probably didn't make him feel great. So I guess I was one step ahead of what you are saying to do, where I felt like it was like he wasn't putting in effort again. Our two previous fights were for same thing. Although in some ways there had been better effort and I felt like we were getting much closer. But then he still did this.

 

I'm really easygoing and relaxed about our relationship. If I could go back to the beginning sometimes I think it would have been better if I hadn't been. The more easygoing I am, the more he's been careless with my time even though he seems like he cares about me more since we gotten closer over time but it seems like he puts in less effort. We are mid 30s. I think he's ready for what we've got. We are very low key. I don't pressure him for more. I'm not that type of girlfriend. I would just walk away if a guy couldn't give me what I want. I think he think he's freaking out about his career though no matter how undemanding I am. I also know that he has a habit of getting down and sabotaging good things which I think might be what he is doing here. I don't want to beg any guy to see that I'm a good part of his life. If he doesn't believe that, it doesn't do any good to try to talk him into it.

 

What should I do? Do you think it's too late to reach out now? I'm not saying I will just knee jerk do that but what do you think? I think if I contact him at wrong moment at this point he will act like he's done and doesn't care. If it's a moment where he misses me or is feeling normal, he will be receptive but there's no way to tell when that will be. If I wait for him to contact me, then he will be motivated and I can be receptive.

 

Thanks for your response. Also really helpful!

 

If you're so concerned about getting him at the right moment, then your relationship isn't on solid ground anyway. You should not have to feel like you need to pick and choose your moments so cautiously. A healthy and solid relationship wouldn't be subjected to whims like that. I was surprised when you said you're both mid-thirties; I was expecting much younger.

 

I think you should call him and ask to meet and talk. There's no sense in continuing this stand-off if you have any hope of reconciling. Having said that, if this has happened before, you might be seeing him for who he really is - ie. an unreliable boyfriend. You're right, you can't convince someone to want to see you. He either does or he doesn't. If you've already talked about his and he still isn't coming through in the way you would hope, then it's probably not going to work out well.

 

Either way, you both need better communication skills here. Going long periods without talking builds up too much resentment and - clearly - nothing gets resolved. Be the mature one here and talk to him, but be prepared to end it for good if you still feel unhappy or if he is losing interest. He might be.

[jen1447]

I think you were right to be offended and stand up for yourself, wrong to try to engineer a particular response from him.

 

Why not just reach out to him now? I know you haven't gotten the apology you wanted, but you could still communicate, which would probably give you a little resolution. Thing is, if he's 'that guy' - the one who's willing to put you off like that in favor of whatever else he had going on - well that's a pretty major character flaw in my book, and if it matters to you too, which it obvs does, I doubt he's really the right guy for you anyway.

 

So maybe stick to your guns and call him - end it with some dignity.

[ah1295]

If you're so concerned about getting him at the right moment, then your relationship isn't on solid ground anyway. You should not have to feel like you need to pick and choose your moments so cautiously. A healthy and solid relationship wouldn't be subjected to whims like that. I was surprised when you said you're both mid-thirties; I was expecting much younger.

 

I think you should call him and ask to meet and talk. There's no sense in continuing this stand-off if you have any hope of reconciling. Having said that, if this has happened before, you might be seeing him for who he really is - ie. an unreliable boyfriend. You're right, you can't convince someone to want to see you. He either does or he doesn't. If you've already talked about his and he still isn't coming through in the way you would hope, then it's probably not going to work out well.

 

Either way, you both need better communication skills here. Going long periods without talking builds up too much resentment and - clearly - nothing gets resolved. Be the mature one here and talk to him, but be prepared to end it for good if you still feel unhappy or if he is losing interest. He might be.

 

I would probably be worried about getting him at right moment whatever the conflict, whoever the person. That's me not liking conflict and thinking the worst when in a disagreement. The cancellations and standing me up made me feel like we were on shaky ground even though rest was good. It built up mistrust and insecurity.

 

I feel like when I try to address problems with people it backfires and I don't know how other people do it out come out fine. I'm a really good person. I treat people really well. We are mature enough with way with treat each other and we have had really communicated really well about other things, better than anyone I've ever been with. He's really open with me and I love that. I'm not the best communicator in general but with him I've been my best which I like a lot. But with anyone in a disagreement, I am mature about it. I like to resolve things and don't want to say or do anything that is not just about the incident or that you can't take back and will affect things forever. I guess that's why this is bothering me so much. I didn't think it would spin into something this long or that he wouldn't try to resolve it since he caused it. That's the part I have a hard time with.

 

I could do what you and jen1447 are suggesting but I'm getting confused about this no contact thing. I don't want to just show him it's ok to do this to me or that I'd be with him at any cost. But I want good communication too. Part of me agrees he might just not be a reliable bf at this moment. I'm literally sick to my stomach for last 2 days straight.

 

Thanks for the reply. Maybe you can help me sort out rest of it before I would contact him.

[ah1295]

I think you were right to be offended and stand up for yourself, wrong to try to engineer a particular response from him.

 

Why not just reach out to him now? I know you haven't gotten the apology you wanted, but you could still communicate, which would probably give you a little resolution. Thing is, if he's 'that guy' - the one who's willing to put you off like that in favor of whatever else he had going on - well that's a pretty major character flaw in my book, and if it matters to you too, which it obvs does, I doubt he's really the right guy for you anyway.

 

So maybe stick to your guns and call him - end it with some dignity.

 

So do you think I should have just kept talking to him that day? My thoughts were all over the place and if I started saying too much I think he would just say I was overreacting and the disagreement would be about other stuff. I guess I could have just kept on about the facts as we were discussing them. I was kind of exhausted about this issue though. If it feels like to you that I was trying engineer a response, I think that's what he's probably thinking and rebelling against rather than thinking about what he did to me.

 

Yes I was thinking about it last night after my last post that I was really clear about why I was upset but I didn't get into it with him that his apology was very weak. A little bit but I don't think he was comprehending it. I bet he thinks he was really nice in his apology because it was said sweetly but the reason was just an excuse wrapped up like an apology. He essentially took no responsibility for anything. That part is immature of him.

 

I'm honestly scared to call him. Sick to my stomach scared. I feel like the hurt will get even worse than it is now.

 

Thanks for the response and if you have any advice for how to get through calling or how I should handle that, I'd be glad to hear it

[jen1447]

So do you think I should have just kept talking to him that day? My thoughts were all over the place and if I started saying too much I think he would just say I was overreacting and the disagreement would be about other stuff. I guess I could have just kept on about the facts as we were discussing them. I was kind of exhausted about this issue though. If it feels like to you that I was trying engineer a response, I think that's what he's probably thinking and rebelling against rather than thinking about what he did to me.

No, I think ending it there was fine. The mistake was 'going NC' for so long in the hope that he'd feel like he has to apologize in order to get you to talk to him again.

 

Yes I was thinking about it last night after my last post that I was really clear about why I was upset but I didn't get into it with him that his apology was very weak. A little bit but I don't think he was comprehending it. I bet he thinks he was really nice in his apology because it was said sweetly but the reason was just an excuse wrapped up like an apology. He essentially took no responsibility for anything. That part is immature of him.

This is the reason the relationship sounds dead in the water to me - he holds a sensibility that's inherently offensive (it's ok to put you off), and he appears to lack the ethics to correct it properly. Both of those things are rather major imo, despite sometimes being manifested as 'little' or 'petty' issues. They're not little or petty, and you were right to take offense and not tolerate them.

 

I'm honestly scared to call him. Sick to my stomach scared. I feel like the hurt will get even worse than it is now.

 

Thanks for the response and if you have any advice for how to get through calling or how I should handle that, I'd be glad to hear it

 

How about an e-mail? Much easier to collect your thoughts and present them well that way.

[Maggie4]

You have a decision to make here, before contacting him. There is a part of his personality that really rubs you the wrong way, it causes problems, but he will not change, it is how he is. And it is this way of pretending you didn't have an agreement about something when you both know you did. He basically lies to your face, and he probably does something similar at work too. It is how some people are. They can be otherwise kind people, but they grew up learning this "skill" for getting themselves out of trouble.

You can decide to accept it, and let it slide, or you can call it quits with him. But don't bother trying to explain this to him. Accepting it does not make you desperate, you can make sure he makes it up to you. Also ask yourself how much of this is a power struggle in the relationship. You do have control over whether or not to cater to his schedule. You need not be always available.

I personally can't be with a guy who handles things this way, mainly because it would make me lose respect for him. And once I lose respect, and I'm no longer proud of him, then love is gone and that's the end.

[Tobin]

Ok wow. How would you suggest dealing with someone that stood you up and has done it before? I really want to know since you seem to have an opposite perspective.

 

If you've made it perfectly clear that you won't tolerate this sort of thing and he continues to do it, then I'd be convinced he doesn't care, and he'll never change and I'd pull the plug.

 

You're unable to discuss the problem at the time because you're "too upset". I suggest you seek counseling to deal with your out of control emotions that prevent you from dealing with the situation in a mature, adult fashion.

[ah1295]

No, I think ending it there was fine. The mistake was 'going NC' for so long in the hope that he'd feel like he has to apologize in order to get you to talk to him again.

 

 

This is the reason the relationship sounds dead in the water to me - he holds a sensibility that's inherently offensive (it's ok to put you off), and he appears to lack the ethics to correct it properly. Both of those things are rather major imo, despite sometimes being manifested as 'little' or 'petty' issues. They're not little or petty, and you were right to take offense and not tolerate them.

 

 

 

How about an e-mail? Much easier to collect your thoughts and present them well that way.

 

Good points. Yes I shouldn't have gone no contact so long. It just turned it into a standoff. When I need to at least finish discussing this disagreement in order to feel like I did everything I could. I really care about communicating well since I feel like it's really important and there wouldn't be anything else I did wrong. That would help me move on.

 

I'm glad you see that I was not in the wrong for him blowing me off. I can't even tell you how patient I've been with this. I think I messed up at the beginning really by being ok with some of it. He didn't do this at the beginning but once it began to creep in and I wasn't dealing with it, it just keeps happening. I just think he believes I am more into him than he is into me so he can do what he wants because I will always be there. And I've been really supportive of his career priorities so he will use that to like buffer normal boyfriend stuff with scheduling. I know he doesn't believe that it's a good time for him to have a gf since he is panicking about his career. He has corrected properly and ethically all the times in the past but then now it happened again so I don't know what that says about his ability to not jerk me around in future. Or apologies without different behavior in the future. I feel like if he was still pursuing me and didn't have me or if it was a different girlfriend than me he probably wouldn't do that. Those things I blame on myself. I am far too nice and good to him. Or if it was at a different point in his life or if he was begging me for a second chance that's when he'd reform but only when he's ready to do that. These are the things that make me think it's pointless to get in touch even though I hate that it's was just cut off by me.

 

Good idea with the email. That usually works better for me as well as text since I'm not the best communicator. I get really nervous. As in last two days, I get a nervous stomach and almost throw up. But I feel like at least a phone call would be hard but good to hear each other's voices and not have more miscommunication. We are both easy to forgive if the other makes an effort. I've been thinking of what to say. Because I don't want to grovel or really ask him back. I just want to say sorry for my part, some other stuff along those lines, rehash the incident a little bit so we can understand each others position and then I was going to see where he stood.

 

You have a good read on the situation. I do really care about him. We have a great history and are very connected in a lot of ways. I am just heartbroken. I don't want to end things with him but I go back and forth all this morning after I was thinking about contacting him just because I don't want to be stupid either.

 

Thank you, thank you for your input. Just hearing it makes me stronger and I am at the lowest point I've been in forever. Not only him, all the other stuff I have going on too. Things could be worse in my life but not by much. Trying to find ways to be grateful for what good I do have but it's hard. I feel broken.

[ah1295]

You have a decision to make here, before contacting him. There is a part of his personality that really rubs you the wrong way, it causes problems, but he will not change, it is how he is. And it is this way of pretending you didn't have an agreement about something when you both know you did. He basically lies to your face, and he probably does something similar at work too. It is how some people are. They can be otherwise kind people, but they grew up learning this "skill" for getting themselves out of trouble.

You can decide to accept it, and let it slide, or you can call it quits with him. But don't bother trying to explain this to him. Accepting it does not make you desperate, you can make sure he makes it up to you. Also ask yourself how much of this is a power struggle in the relationship. You do have control over whether or not to cater to his schedule. You need not be always available.

I personally can't be with a guy who handles things this way, mainly because it would make me lose respect for him. And once I lose respect, and I'm no longer proud of him, then love is gone and that's the end.

 

You so get this. Yes I'm not only one he does this stuff to. But then he will be so sweet and do something out of the way nice. His best friend and I were laughing about it one night. It's a skill he does. It's a way he maneuvers through life. And he is capable of the opposite though too. I really trust him in all the other ways.

 

It is a current power struggle completely. I think that's it. I would say because this stuff has started to make me feel untrusting of him and bad about my value to him I finally needed to not keep letting it happen. I think I might just be agreeing to what will turn into a bad relationship if I accept it now or am wondering if we communicate well about it and can work through it, will the relationship grow because of it? I'm completely torn. That's why it's been a little easier to do nothing. Once I contact him there's no taking it back. I don't know what to do.

 

I can't tell you how much it means that you and the others have given these thoughtful responses. Thank you

[jen1447]

He has corrected properly and ethically all the times in the past but then now it happened again so I don't know what that says about his ability to not jerk me around in future. Or apologies without different behavior in the future. I feel like if he was still pursuing me and didn't have me or if it was a different girlfriend than me he probably wouldn't do that. Those things I blame on myself. I am far too nice and good to him. Or if it was at a different point in his life or if he was begging me for a second chance that's when he'd reform but only when he's ready to do that. These are the things that make me think it's pointless to get in touch even though I hate that it's was just cut off by me.

It's good you're willing to accept blame but I think these shortcomings are entirely on him. The bolded parts says a lot ....all the times ....there shouldn't be more than 1 or 2 if he's genuinely concerned with your well being and respects you.

 

Good idea with the email. That usually works better for me as well as text since I'm not the best communicator. I get really nervous. As in last two days, I get a nervous stomach and almost throw up. But I feel like at least a phone call would be hard but good to hear each other's voices and not have more miscommunication. We are both easy to forgive if the other makes an effort. I've been thinking of what to say. Because I don't want to grovel or really ask him back. I just want to say sorry for my part, some other stuff along those lines, rehash the incident a little bit so we can understand each others position and then I was going to see where he stood.

How about an e-mail first to lay out your case clearly and unemotionally and then a followup call to discuss it?

 

You have a good read on the situation. I do really care about him. We have a great history and are very connected in a lot of ways. I am just heartbroken. I don't want to end things with him but I go back and forth all this morning after I was thinking about contacting him just because I don't want to be stupid either.

 

Thank you, thank you for your input. Just hearing it makes me stronger and I am at the lowest point I've been in forever. Not only him, all the other stuff I have going on too. Things could be worse in my life but not by much. Trying to find ways to be grateful for what good I do have but it's hard. I feel broken.

You're welcome hon, and things will be ok - they always are one way or another.

 

I don't want to be the doomsayer here but please don't settle. This isn't leaves-the-toilet-set-up type stuff. Much more significant that that.

 

Hugs.

[ExpatInItaly]

The longer you leave it, the more likely he is to assume that you two are done.

 

Are you scared to contact him because you're afraid he'll just confirm your fear that he's lost interest?

[ah1295]

It's good you're willing to accept blame but I think these shortcomings are entirely on him. The bolded parts says a lot ....all the times ....there shouldn't be more than 1 or 2 if he's genuinely concerned with your well being and respects you.

 

 

How about an e-mail first to lay out your case clearly and unemotionally and then a followup call to discuss it?

 

 

You're welcome hon, and things will be ok - they always are one way or another.

 

I don't want to be the doomsayer here but please don't settle. This isn't leaves-the-toilet-set-up type stuff. Much more significant that that.

 

Hugs.

 

Seriously cannot tell you how much this is helping! I also I think that they shouldn't have happened.

 

That's a good idea about the email and then call. I still think a call would be better in my gut. He does care about me and it would mean more to him and me if I could do that. I could write out an outline though to help me through the call. I'm still not sure I want to contact. You have the good points about settling and this being big stuff that's why I've handled it this way so far.

 

I hope things get better. Right now I'm really doubtful. I never thought I'd find someone who personality wise was so right for me. Well apart from this issue which I think he wouldn't do if he didn't want to. I can kind of accept that timing just might not be right and that will be what messes us up. I don't want to settle. My live-in bf a while ago, I thought I wouldn't go through anything worse and wouldn't recover. It took a long time but I'm always glad I didn't end up with him. I think I'm worried about this taking a long time to recover from and also losing him. When I think back to my live-in bf, I don't regret that we broke up only that it took me a long time to come back from it. I don't even regret being with him and that it didn't work out. With this bf, I think I'm very upset because it was nowhere near finished if you know what I mean. All the other parts were great. But I don't want to settle either.

 

Seriously you are amazing. Thanks