Why smart men fail with women

[xxoo]

I never said you had to date them I said you have no right to whine about them if you're not gonna meet halfway.

 

It reeks of entitlement and women expecting men to make things easy as possible for them early on.

 

The majority of women, like the majority of men, manage dating just fine.

 

The men and women who struggle hugely are sort of analogous, I guess. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are entitled or whiners.

Edited August 22, 2015 by xxoo

[autumnnight]

If a guy really is smart, why would it be so difficult to figure dating and people out? Dating is quite logical.

 

• Boy spots attractive girl.
  
• Talks to attractive girl and asks her out.
  
• Girl says no. Abort.
  
• Girl says yes, firm up date.
  
• Girl won't firm up date. Abort.
  
• Girl firms up date. Continue.
  
• A day before date, contact.
  
• Girl doesn't return text. Abort.
  
• Girl returns text. Continue.
  
• Girl doesn't show up for date. Abort.
  
• Girl shows up. Continue.
  

 

If men could do this instead of pine, stalk, and whine for pages about "WHY won't she LIIIIKE me," they'd have more success. The end.

[hotpotato]

Intelligence comes in many forms, and it's not limited to just logical reasoning.

 

Maybe those who fail with the opposite sex are just not that smart in the required department. Sometimes you just need to work harder than the rest and also could use some advise from those who excel at it.

Ould you really want to sit there on a date plotting and thinking about every move, every word?

[bcnguy]

I had to learn logic later in life (in my late 30's). A male friend that I respected helped me with that. I was all emotion before that, but now I regret learning logic because once you go to logicland it's hard to go back. Even though I was crazy before, I think I was happier.

What? I don't understand this. logic/analytical thinking and emotions aren't opposites, at all. In fact both are complementary and needed to function.

 

Google for Antonio Damasio's work. He's considered the neuroscientist who formulated the key ingredient of emotion to the current most accepted theory for decision-making. Essentially saying we literally need emotions to make a decision. So emotions are the closest thing we have to a compass in this life...in other words, no decision is logical. Which doesn't imply there is no other underlying 'reason' or drive to support them.

Edited August 22, 2015 by bcnguy

[xxoo]

Is it logical to assume that the women who reject you struggle to find suitable partners?

[AD1980]

The majority of women, like the majority of men, manage dating just fine.

 

The men and women who struggle hugely are sort of analogous, I guess. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are entitled or whiners.

 

When a women complains that someone can't read into her body language it's entitlement.Just move on to a man who can read it so you don't have to do any work early on and can save your emotions and ego which is what this is about

 

I have no dog in the fight anyway I can't get a first date to even try to read signs so it doesn't bother me lol

Edited August 22, 2015 by AD1980

[Popsicle]

What? I don't understand this. logic/analytical thinking and emotions aren't opposites, at all. In fact both are complementary and needed to function.

 

Google for Antonio Damasio's work. He's considered the neuroscientist who formulated the key ingredient of emotion to the current most accepted theory for decision-making. Essentially saying we literally need emotions to make a decision. So emotions are the closest thing we have to a compass in this life...in other words, no decision is logical. Which doesn't imply there is no other underlying 'reason' or drive to support them.

 

Okay, I'll take that.

[xxoo]

When a women complains that someone can't read into her body language it's entitlement.Just move on to a man who can read it so you don't have to do any work early on and can save your emotions and ego which is what this is about

 

I have no dog in the fight anyway I can't get a first date to even try to read signs so it doesn't bother me lol

 

No, not to save ego. To find a good match.

 

Marriage to a man who can not read body language would be miserable for me. Has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with enjoying my partner.

[hotpotato]

That's why the perfect man or woman will be intelligent enough to know that moderation is the key and, spice of life! To be smart, charismatic, sensitive, rough, passionate, funny, caring, affectionate, independent but will to interdepend. etc... Have to be a little bit of everything to be a good catch.

Moderation is so boring. Do people really like that?

- Talking cars, vans, gadgets

QUOTE]

 

Men talking about their passions = poor social skills? I thought women liked passionate men, but is it really just things that women are also passionate about?

 

 

One thing ive learned is that your dayeor bf or gf doesnt want to hear about your passions all the time. Thats what clubs and ibternet forums are for. Maybe they dont need to everything about you ..This is doubly trie if your pasdions are odd or gender nonconforming.

[autumnnight]

What? I don't understand this. logic/analytical thinking and emotions aren't opposites, at all. In fact both are complementary and needed to function.

 

Google for Antonio Damasio's work. He's considered the neuroscientist who formulated the key ingredient of emotion to the current most accepted theory for decision-making. Essentially saying we literally need emotions to make a decision. So emotions are the closest thing we have to a compass in this life...in other words, no decision is logical. Which doesn't imply there is no other underlying 'reason' or drive to support them.

 

Wow....someone gets it

[hotpotato]

Wow....someone gets it

 

Does that mean we can approach dating the way we approach logical equations?

[RecentChange]

Well, if I read her post correctly - cuz of her bf's "perceived" low skill, education level, etc. - he saw himself a better match with the chick he married; AND, that he used what he learned from her to marry the other chick. Low if you ask me

 

Hahahah NO - you 100% misinterpreted my post and simply projected your own situation.

 

He was my F**** buddy, a friend, but very much not my boyfriend. I dated other dudes on the side - and he dated other girls.

 

After a great session we would lay around and talk - and the topic of "this girl" he really liked, but was awkward with would often come up. I would give him advice. He struggled with much I what is on this list - and I WANTED to help him find a girlfriend. I cared about him enough as a friend that I wanted to see him happy, and he was at a point in his life where he wanted more than an F' buddy (and I didn't want to get anymore involved with him than that).

 

I saw it as a personal success that he was able to "land" her. Hey! Some I my advice worked!

 

And she was a lucky gal, that guy was wonderful in bed!

 

I also have many guy friends and pride myself on my wingman skills.

 

So no, he didn't steal anything from me, he wasn't a low life. He was a nice guy that was often misunderstood, and I am happy he found someone who got him.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I bet just as many dumb guys fail with women as smart guys. :bunny:

[Rejected Rosebud]

When a women complains that someone can't read into her body language it's entitlement.Just move on to a man who can read it so you don't have to do any work early on and can save your emotions and ego which is what this is about

Are you KIDDING me?? :eek: You really think that holding out for a partner that you have good communication with is "entitlement" and lazy? Is that only for girls or do men also have to go out with girls they don't connect with at all?

 

The thing is, we CAN find a partner who we can communicate well with, most of us can (guys and girls) so why would we stick ourselves with one we cant communicate well with?

 

I would rather be single than with a guy who doesn't "get" me.

[Rejected Rosebud]

It reeks of entitlement and women expecting men to make things easy as possible for them early on.

Whoops I missed this part where you again accuse women of "entitlement" when they pass on guys they can't connect with in search of a guy they CAN connect with. If that is entitlement so be it! What you seem to be missing is that WE women you are calling "entitled" are often succeeding in finding a GOOD match for ourselves where things just click naturally!! So we were smart to hold out for this right? Or is that "entitled"? :confused:

[hotpotato]

I think someone who is different should also date someone who is different. People who dont normally deviate from norms arent going to be very forgiving or understanding.

 

You can complain all day long, that can never make someone like you.

[xxoo]

Another thing to consider:

 

Non-verbal communication isn't a one-way street where the woman sends and the man receives. You, the man, are communicating non-verbally whether you realize it or not.

 

If you have NO idea how body language works, how do you know what you are communicating to women? Maybe you are interested, but your non-verbal communication is very clearly telling her you're not interested. You are responsible for sending that message.

[Shining One]

You, the man, are communicating non-verbally whether you realize it or not.

Many of the women in my life completely misread my body language. Earlier today, I was sitting on the couch with a stern/focused look on my face. My girlfriend thought I was upset about something, but I was really just thinking several moves ahead in an online chess game I was playing with my uncle. Clearly, she needs to get better at reading body language. My face totally said: "Knight C5 to B7", not "I'm upset".

[hotpotato]

Many of the women in my life completely misread my body language. Earlier today, I was sitting on the couch with a stern/focused look on my face. My girlfriend thought I was upset about something, but I was really just thinking several moves ahead in an online chess game I was playing with my uncle. Clearly, she needs to get better at reading body language. My face totally said: "Knight C5 to B7", not "I'm upset".

 

Yup. Sometimes people misread cues. Sometimes i maje mean face when i exercise. People think im angry at them, but im just working out and in the zone. Should be obvious, but its not.

[hotpotato]

Yup. Sometimes people misread cues. Sometimes i maje mean face when i exercise. People think im angry at them, but im just working out and in the zone. Should be obvious, but its not.

Wanted to add, some people cant tell the difference between focus and being mean, anger, etc. If im thinking intently, im not gonna wear a big cheesy grin.

[LivingWaterPlease]

One thing that works for me to connect with others seems kinda simple. It is to approach every interaction with a decision to enjoy the person you're with.

 

Focus on them looking for the good in them, the amusing in them, the attractive in them. Watch the way they move, listen to the things they say and allow yourself to like the person. Then respond to whatever you see in them that you have found you like.

 

If you do this soon you will find yourself connecting with anyone you want to connect with.

 

You'll probably find a greater connection with some than with others and that's what dating is about, finding the connection that suits you best.

 

You can practice this with anyone you meet, doesn't have to be a date or someone of the opposite sex. Just learn to enjoy others.

[xxoo]

Many of the women in my life completely misread my body language. Earlier today, I was sitting on the couch with a stern/focused look on my face. My girlfriend thought I was upset about something, but I was really just thinking several moves ahead in an online chess game I was playing with my uncle. Clearly, she needs to get better at reading body language. My face totally said: "Knight C5 to B7", not "I'm upset".

 

Sounds like she read you fairly well, just not the topic of your focused thought.

 

The problem would be going on a date with this look and wondering why she thinks you aren't interested in her.

[RecentChange]

Good points about non verbal communication being a two way street.

 

Bottom line, if two people can't read each other, it probably won't work out.

 

There have been guys I have dated that I told straight "you are really hard to read". I was interpreting their body language one way, but they tell me that I was interpreting it wrong. I am a really straight forward person so I will ask rather than assume - but still, it just made interaction more difficult. I do better with someone I can read and more easily understand.

[WonderKid]

I can agree on some of the things at the list. I will admit when I am wrong though. Because that is the process of learning and attaining knowledge, you can't always be right; I know that much.

 

I tend to not think of emotion always. When in some ways I should.

 

One thing with me is I hate having my intelligence insulted. And I can tell right away when someone is trying to bull**** me. And I think quite rationally at times.

 

I have given many women benefit of the doubt, but ignorance is just such a turn off.

[Imajerk17]

Sounds like she read you fairly well, just not the topic of your focused thought.

 

The problem would be going on a date with this look and wondering why she thinks you aren't interested in her.

 

Yep. Thing is, many *women* struggle with this too--losing a guy's attention because he misread her shyness, guardedness, ect and thought she wasn't interested (when in fact she indeed was). You'd be amazed (not you personally xxoo as you get it but many other posters here) how many times a woman doesn't get contacted for a second date, all because the guy drew the possibly erroneous conclusion that she wasn't interested. The guy didn't see any interest on her part (even though she actually may have been quite interested) and either lost interest himself or withdrew to save his pride.

 

So getting back to the general topic in the OP's last two threads, it is on BOTH genders to get their steps of the Mating Dance right, or the courtship is unlikely to get off the ground.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Imajerk17