nightmare01 Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 As we say. An LTA is the gift that keeps on giving. 14 years past Dday. Me and WW are in a good place - get along fine. Most days I don't think a lot about her LTA, but I do think about it - it does cross my mind at least once a day... not in a bad or angry way, it's just sort of there, a sad memory. So WW tells me she had a night mare last night. She said these two guys were about to hurt her because she had done something to them. Then she said that maybe she had complained about them and that is why they were going to hurt her. Then she says that she never does anything bad to anyone unless they had done something to her first. And that she always gets her revenge. So I ask her. So you never do anything bad that you really regret, because the people you hurt hurt you first? She said that was true. Naturally this is bugging me. She says she is sorry for her LTA. Sorry she hurt me and all the rest of it. Swears she will never do anything like that again. But those two things don't line up. IMO she can't really be sorry she hurt me with her LTA if she thinks that I deserved it. Am I being too sensitive? Am I out of line for thinking this?
Clay Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 That is a hard thing to nail down. You could just very well be seeing her true feelings about things and as far as her lta she just didn't want to loose what she had. I think I would sit her down and talk to her more and have her explain it better. Tell her your hungup on this. Its gotta hurt just thinking about it. C 1
qubist Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 yes you are being too sensitive, you cannot take people's comments word by word. you referring to something that happened 14 years ago, come on man. even during her A, believe or not" she might not have the cautious intention to hurt you. let it go man 5
MuddyFootprints Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Did you identify specifically what you were thinking when you were having the discussion? 1
RightThere Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 But those two things don't line up. IMO she can't really be sorry she hurt me with her LTA if she thinks that I deserved it. Am I being too sensitive? Am I out of line for thinking this? First off, I would try to separate what she said versus what she did for the affair. It's possible (I don't know your story) but the affair wasn't meant to hurt you. So then it wasn't done as some sort of revenge factor. Don't try to read too much into all encompassing statements like she said, because usually there are always exceptions to everyone's own rules. Second, 14 years later and you still are having triggers? I can't even imagine. Good on you for fighting through everything to keep the marriage together.
Author nightmare01 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Posted August 19, 2015 Did you identify specifically what you were thinking when you were having the discussion? There really wasn't much time for an in depth conversation. It was first thing in the morning and we both have stuff to do around the house. Now she's out with students from a class she takes. I'll try to find an opening this evening. I think that with most WS there is some exaggeration of their BS's faults because that's necessary for the WS to justify what they want to do. So at some level I think revenge is a component - as an inner justification to make themselves feel better. However, at some point she has to see that justification for what it was - a lie. I thought my WW had done this, but maybe she never really did and just said the things she needed to say to stay in the marriage.
Author nightmare01 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Posted August 19, 2015 First off, I would try to separate what she said versus what she did for the affair. It's possible (I don't know your story) but the affair wasn't meant to hurt you. So then it wasn't done as some sort of revenge factor. Don't try to read too much into all encompassing statements like she said, because usually there are always exceptions to everyone's own rules. Second, 14 years later and you still are having triggers? I can't even imagine. Good on you for fighting through everything to keep the marriage together. Good advice. This was a LTA - 3 years of EA & PA, and some number of years before that as an EA only. He was at my house. Was friendly with my kids. Slept with her in our bed. Stayed at our house while I was out of town.. had sex in our shower and bathtub. She knew this would hurt me. There is no doubt about that. The truth is that during those years she just didn't care.
autumnnight Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 There really wasn't much time for an in depth conversation. It was first thing in the morning and we both have stuff to do around the house. Now she's out with students from a class she takes. I'll try to find an opening this evening. I think that with most WS there is some exaggeration of their BS's faults because that's necessary for the WS to justify what they want to do. So at some level I think revenge is a component - as an inner justification to make themselves feel better. However, at some point she has to see that justification for what it was - a lie. I thought my WW had done this, but maybe she never really did and just said the things she needed to say to stay in the marriage. OK...I get why this bugs you, but let me speak as a regular horrific nightmare-haver. Bad dreams funk people up....even into the morning, sometimes all day. When they are recalling their dreams, they are kind of "in" the dream sometimes. So what she said was likely about the dream, about the upsetting nature of the dream, and about the people in the dream. To decide her remorse of 14 years is fake because one morning she was upset my a dream and didn't express herself clearly is...well, to say it is a bit of an emotional stretch is an understatement. If you want to toss 14 years of recovery over one unclear morning conversation, that really says more about you than her. 2
Clay Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Wow. Yea There is no way I would have stayed. I agree with the others. Try to separate it out. C
qubist Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Good advice. This was a LTA - 3 years of EA & PA, and some number of years before that as an EA only. He was at my house. Was friendly with my kids. Slept with her in our bed. Stayed at our house while I was out of town.. had sex in our shower and bathtub. She knew this would hurt me. There is no doubt about that. The truth is that during those years she just didn't care. all depends how you look at it, but bottom line is that you decided to forgive, the fact that you are still triggered is worrying . I'm sorry that you are still hurt
RightThere Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Good advice. This was a LTA - 3 years of EA & PA, and some number of years before that as an EA only. He was at my house. Was friendly with my kids. Slept with her in our bed. Stayed at our house while I was out of town.. had sex in our shower and bathtub. She knew this would hurt me. There is no doubt about that. The truth is that during those years she just didn't care. I'm a BS, so I hate to defend a WW, but I think it might be a stretch to equate her revenge stance and having sex in your house "to hurt you." Pretty much everything about an affair is designed to hurt you. Them going to a movie together and holding hands is designed to "hurt you". But I don't know if she was hate f@#$ing him in your shower. It was probably just regular, run of the mill affair sex. Basically you're 14 years into reconciliation. If she's truly sorry and has shown it, I would just accept it and enjoy your life.
MuddyFootprints Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 14 years is a long time. She is not the same person she was all those years ago. I understand why this would be a trigger for you and when you do bring it up, try to be non confrontational and understand that for her, she probably wasn't consciously considering how her behaviour 14 years ago reflect her current views and response to people who may cross her personal boundaries.
SawtoothMars Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Am I being too sensitive? Am I out of line for thinking this? She was probably just compartmentalizing. She is likely thinking only of physical pain or something like that. I really doubt that she meant to include the affair. My thought is that if you are still dwelling on this after 14 years... she has completely failed to fix what she broke. THAT is what you need to focus on.
Author nightmare01 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Posted August 19, 2015 You guys are probably right. I tend to over analyze. Thanks for the input. 1
drifter777 Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 ... To decide her remorse of 14 years is fake because one morning she was upset my a dream and didn't express herself clearly is...well, to say it is a bit of an emotional stretch is an understatement. If you want to toss 14 years of recovery over one unclear morning conversation, that really says more about you than her. OP: what about it? Does any part of you think that her remorse is less than heart-felt? Like sorry it hurt you but not really sorry it happened? And that the fact that she chose to stay with you means something but your not sure what? I agree with autumn that if she has been truly remorseful and worked hard to prove she is not that person anymore than one bad morning triggered by one goofy dream is not necessarily a big deal. I would have a frank conversation with her about how what she said makes you feel and clear the air. But if this is just something that made an already-simmering pot boil over then the two of you still have some work to do. 1
Author nightmare01 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Posted August 19, 2015 OP: what about it? Does any part of you think that her remorse is less than heart-felt? Like sorry it hurt you but not really sorry it happened? And that the fact that she chose to stay with you means something but your not sure what? I agree with autumn that if she has been truly remorseful and worked hard to prove she is not that person anymore than one bad morning triggered by one goofy dream is not necessarily a big deal. I would have a frank conversation with her about how what she said makes you feel and clear the air. But if this is just something that made an already-simmering pot boil over then the two of you still have some work to do. Do any of us ACTUALLY know with 100% certainty that the remorse we see is genuine? What is the one thing we do know with certainty about our WS? That they are great liars, and that what they want comes before our needs. Yes I got the tears and snot running apology. It didn't happen at first, she had a lot of anger (much of that at herself), when that dissipated I got what seemed to be remorse. But how do I know that it was real remorse, and not just what she decided she needed to say just to smooth things over? How can any of us know the answer to that with certainty?
RightThere Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 How can any of us know the answer to that with certainty? No guarantees at all, that is for sure. I'm sure you'll never be as trusting as you once were, but through her actions you should be able to give back some of your trust. I think the point you are at in your relationship with her, you need to learn to let it go. If you think she's been lying now for 14 years about being sorry and is just waiting for your guard to go down before she ...... who knows what. I'd say if YOU think it's remorse, then that should be good enough.
Author nightmare01 Posted August 19, 2015 Author Posted August 19, 2015 Probably so. As I said - I think too much.
casey.lives Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Revenge is a harmful action against a person or group in response to a grievance, be it real or perceived.
MuddyFootprints Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Can your wife help you get out of your head about this? 1
ladydesigner Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Do any of us ACTUALLY know with 100% certainty that the remorse we see is genuine? What is the one thing we do know with certainty about our WS? That they are great liars, and that what they want comes before our needs. Yes I got the tears and snot running apology. It didn't happen at first, she had a lot of anger (much of that at herself), when that dissipated I got what seemed to be remorse. But how do I know that it was real remorse, and not just what she decided she needed to say just to smooth things over? How can any of us know the answer to that with certainty? nightmare01 I would give her the benefit of the doubt this far out with no reoccurrences of wayward behavior. I do however, understand the bolded all too well. Reconciling that fact may take me lifetime.
World's.Edge Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Nightmare, your story really gets to me. It's very unsettling, I can't even explain it. It's like a mixture of sympathy, anger, sadness and a host of other emotions. I am truly sorry for what you went through and continue to go through. Fourteen years out and it doesn't seem like you've dealt with this. Your wife's affair lasted around nine to eleven years if I remember correctly. That's like, way more than most here have had to deal with. How have you two addressed her affair after discovery? Have you sought marriage counselling, individual therapy? You've mentioned before that she has shown regret, but not true remorse. Was the affair exposed, what consequences did your wife experience? I think your wife, like many adulterers, has put her affair behind her. To her, it's in the past. It's not with her like it is with you because it didn't cause her pain and devastate her, so she likely isn't aware or sensitive as to how what she says might affect or be perceived by you. Her affair affected you and how you perceive things, so it's not unusual for you to somehow see shadows of it in the things she says or does. I also noticed a detail in your post that might deserve your attention. I don't know what classes your wife is taking, and this may be nothing, but I have known in real life and read several stories on these threads where the spouse had either returned to university or enrolled in a few classes, and began an affair. The studying, being around (lkely younger) students, going out and drinking, the overall youthful and fun environment was conducive for infidelity. 1
jen1447 Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 I think you should try to keep it in context - she was talking about her basic worldview after coming out of a disorienting experience, not reflecting specifically on her affair in all likelihood. Ppl are full of contradictions in general, but they don't always or even often betray some overtly sinister mindset.
Noirek Posted August 19, 2015 Posted August 19, 2015 Did she ever tell you she had her affair out of revenge and to hurt you. Because as someone who thinks a lot you should realize that wanting to hurt someone is entirely different than knowing something will hurt a person if they find out, and being found out by is cheaters is usually something we actually believe will never happen. In example I know a woman who cam hime and told her SO every detail about the ONS she just had, laughed at his pain and walked out. It was all a deliberate act to inflict pain. I'd talk to her though about it. Open honest communication is refreshing. But do it in a humble way. Not in attack mode. When people get there back up they often lash out. I'm sure if she is a good wife and you guys are close she will be quick to reassure you. 1
drifter777 Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 Do any of us ACTUALLY know with 100% certainty that the remorse we see is genuine? What is the one thing we do know with certainty about our WS? That they are great liars, and that what they want comes before our needs. Yes I got the tears and snot running apology. It didn't happen at first, she had a lot of anger (much of that at herself), when that dissipated I got what seemed to be remorse. But how do I know that it was real remorse, and not just what she decided she needed to say just to smooth things over? How can any of us know the answer to that with certainty? Of course there is no way to know if the remorse is genuine. And they have proven to us that they will lie to our faces about the worst betrayal they can do to us. As for me, I'll never be convinced that my wife's remorse doesn't come with a silent "I'm sorry I hurt you but I had to do it for myself". I also believe she will say whatever she thinks I want to hear. I don't believe her or trust her yet I stay married to her for lots of other reasons. I guess the thing that keeps me from walking away is all of the years that she has been faithful since that horrible time. It counts for a lot in my mind.
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