I Survived Posted May 11, 2005 Posted May 11, 2005 I don't care if your wife drove you to the floosie's house and waited for you in the car, what you did was wrong wrong wrong. Don't discount the fact that your wife may be depressed. One never knows. You appear to be a very intelligent man. I agree that there are two people in a marriage and they both bring excess baggage into the relationship. It is unfortunate that you brought a third party into it. I truly feel sad for what you are about to go through but I also know that if you both want to work things out and stay together it will be hard work. A year ago, when I discovered my husband's affair, I asked him if he loved the OW. He said he did. Today, if I asked him he would tell me that he didn't love HER, he loved the way she made him feel about himself. And he honestly says "What the hell was I thinking?" and admits that he was not in his right mind. Dude, you've got a long road ahead of you and I hope you can weather the storm. I know, for myself, that it was a wake up call to the problems in our relationship. We made it and if you really want to - you can too.
whichwayisup Posted May 11, 2005 Posted May 11, 2005 Originally posted by stuckbloke about the affair at the moment, I'm afraid. If she wanted to hear all the details it would crush her and probably wreck any chances of reconciliation, and her anger, and the power it would give her over me would be too much to bear. It has stopped, it won't happen again and I want to try to make things work. This may change, but right now, that's the best I can do, I'm afraid. I've told her about the problems in our marriage, and I've put the affair behind me. If you don't tell her yourself, somebody else might...That OW could too. Never say never...But who knows who else saw you both together. You tell her, then DO EVERYTHING to make it up to her. Marriage councilling, be open and honest - TELL her everything that happened and why you decided to have the affair. Work together to FIX what is missing from the marriage. Build a new relationship, a better one than before - Together.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 11, 2005 Author Posted May 11, 2005 No one else can tell her, becauses no one else knows. Anyway, things have moved on whichwayisup - I am deciding to tell her. I note that those who have obviously been betrayed are most concerned to drill into me that I was wrong, that I truly understand this - perhaps that is a part of overcoming the affair for both parties - for the BS to know that the WS understands his sin with a real sense of conviction. Any attempt to try to understand what has happened in a wider context is seen as being put forward an excuse, and therefore somehow ducking out of responsibility. I can understand this, and will be thinking hard about the wrong I've done, and of course, I will be shown how much I have hurt my wife, because she will show me. There is another side to this. This marriage is both of our lives, and any resolution, reconciliation has to involve both of us. A big problem in our marriage has been that I have lived with some emotional abuse. I have looked carefully through women's aid's definitions (doesn't seem to be much help for men on this) and I have experienced alot of what they talk about. As has been noted, my fear has played as much a part in this problem has my wife's abusive behaviour. I have been unable to be open and real with her, and got very hurt and dissociated from the relationship which is why over a year ago I told her that I had been feeling that I wanted to leave. This was months before my affair happened. I am beginning to understand that we both have to get to a new place in our relationship, where we are able to openly and honestly decide on our future - whether together or apart. Her reaction to my affair is hers, and apart from physical violence, I'm preparing myself to accept everything, and to be there for her however she wants. I am fully prepared to try everything possible to make it work, and will suggest that we spend as much time together as she wants to talk. We need to get real with each other, and perhaps we should be thinking in terms of committing to spend at least 6 months working on it, i she agrees. She will obviously have her own views about what to do. What I will not accept is that I don't have a voice in this marriage, and in the way forward, and I will not respond to guilt tripping, manipulation or personal abuse. I will not be in this marriage because of her controlling behaviour. I will be in this marriage if, and only if, both of us genuinely want to be in it. So yes, I have done a profound wrong. There are no excuses, and none are offered. I have betrayed my wife and broken my vow. There are reasons why this happened - namely - my choices and my feelings in and about the marriage. No one should have to feel the way I have felt at times, and my wife bears some responsibiity for that. I felt at some level there was a kind of permission, and my wife bears some responsibillity for that. We have both done many things to hurt each other and our marriage will not work only if we deal with my affair. I need, and value the support I'm finding on here - thank you all.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by stuckbloke And no, my lover and I didn't make love - there's no reason for me to lie here - why would I have to? I told my lover about what my wife had said to me, and she felt that was fine. We experimented alot, had a lot of oral sex and stuff, but never made love. We always felt satisfied and fulfilled by the sex we had without making love. The lack of vaginal penetration does not mean you weren't having sex....or that you were not "making love". You had a sexual affair with this woman. And it only hurts YOU to deny it. I assure you, your Wife won't appreciate the semantics. I agree with Enigma, (NOT for the first time ), that you should first approach a therapist with this, and not any of your family members. You should probably change counselors at this point, since you are uncomfortable with your church-based one. Most medical insurance plans have provisions for counseling. The first step is to call the member services hotline printed on your insurance card. You can get a detailed verification of your benefits, as well as a list of participating providers. Remember, that you are NOT the first guy that this has ever happened to. This forum, and others like it are chock-full of posts just like yours. Honestly, "there is nothing new under the sun". If you read here for a single month, you'll see that your letter is almost formulated. I married the wrong woman. {insert reason here} (popular choices include unplanned pregnancy, and the "natural progression" of a woman's expectations, or your parent's expectations, or the Hare Krishna's expectations for that matter. ) I love her, but I'm not IN LOVE with her {insert your particular reason} (our relationship has become dull and complacent, we're existing as room-mates, I don't like her body.) We have sooooo many problems in our relationship {again, insert your reason} (she doesn't understand me, we don't have enough sex, she only cares about the children,.....the list is ENDLESS on this one. Because, in truth THESE are the unmet emotional needs that are causing the dysfunction.) I met this other woman.... da-da-da-dum.... And "thar she blows"!!! The REAL reason we've come to this place, this time, and this really horrid state of emotional confusion. You only have to read these boards for about a month to see the script, plain as day. And if you add the words, "He never pays attention to me", you can reverse genders and use the same format for the ladies. All that probably sounds facetious to you. It's not meant to be. I'm not trying to minimize your pain, or your experience. You more than likely feel very isolated and alone in this situation, embarrassed even, but I assure you....vast numbers of people fall prey to just this scenario. Like everyone who's lived it before you.....you'll muddle through somehow. And it will, at times, be painful and messy. But you'll make it anyhow. For right now, my best suggestions to you are: 1. To set up counseling with a new therapist. 2. To remember that "Rome wasn't built in a day", and you won't fix this in a day either. Be patient with yourself and with others. Don't rush. You'll need to take the time to get through each stage. The first being....overcoming the "affair withdrawal". Play with your kid, read a book, or watch a movie....and try to remember that there is more to life than relationship-building. 3. Have immense sympathy for your wife. The sympathy emotion will allow you to access your more tender emotions regarding her. Remember, she doesn't have all the facts yet.....and honestly, she deserves so much better than what she's getting right now. EVERYONE deserves better than to have their mate lie to them, and cheat them, and consider them to be otherwise unworthy of love and devotion. 4. Don't make excuses....at least not to yourself. You'll feel, at times, tremendous pressure to make contact with OW. There are times that you'll lie to yourself in an effort to give yourself permission to do just that. You know, "I'll just call her this one time to see if she's okay. I mistreated her as much as I mistreated my wife. She and I both need closure." Etc. etc. Don't do it. You're at Day One again if you do. Examine your reasoning closely. Take your perceptions of your motivation with a grain of salt. For example, you wouldn't be quite so concerned in telling her about this...if you REALLY felt like she'd given you tacit permission to do it, right? On the other hand, abuse in your past could have caused you to avoid conflict at all costs, and so....may be valid in the deconstruction of your marriage. The trick to this is to consider NOTHING about what the other person is doing or has done. You only look at yourself here. You're in no kind of shape emotionally to make sense of other people's actions. The temptation to lay blame will be ENORMOUS if you try. Rely on a therapist's judgement in this. 5. Recognize that you may in fact be unable to save the marriage. And take comfort in the fact that it'll either be a 'whole lot better', or it'll be OVER. She might not want you back when she finds out. Or, she may do whatever it takes to improve the relationship. You have no guarantees, but either way...you will have resolution eventually.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 12, 2005 Author Posted May 12, 2005 Thanks. That's both encouraging and wise.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 12, 2005 Author Posted May 12, 2005 Just one question LadayJane - what did you mean by "On the other hand, abuse in your past could have caused you to avoid conflict at all costs, and so....may be valid in the deconstruction of your marriage."? I was abused at school. And I do hate conflict. It leaves me feeling wretched. As to the issue of permission, it will be my wife who determines the relevance, or not, of that. Not me. I'll let you all know how things go when I do tell her. I do take your points wholeheartedly though - I take full responsibility, and it will be good for us to get everything out into the open so that we can be 100% straight with each other, however hard that is. In the meantime, any more advice on how to tell, would be gratefully recieved. Particularly in terms of the level of detail I go into. What do I do if she insists on knowing things that I know are going to devastate her? Tell the truth, I guess?
Sal Paradise Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 You need to be completely honest and give all the details. It won't be easy but its the only way. I'm glad you decided to tell her, its the right thing to do.
I Survived Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 Don't let her DISCOVER anything on her own. If you have anything in your wallet, in your drawers, in your computer, anything, anywhere that she might search for evidence of the affair, get rid of it now. She will go looking, believe me. She is going to try and figure out where she was when this was happening. No doubt she has suspected something if you've been distant. The most devastating part of my repair was when I found things (receipts, cell phone statements, CDs, etc.) while he was at work. Every time I found something new it caused me to step back. There were more questions. I discovered more deception. Everytime I found something he would tell me that was it, there was nothing more, and then I would find something else. You don't need that extra complication. Because you lied and deceived her, she will bottom out on the trust level. She will have a very hard time believing you. Be open, sensitive and NEVER tell her another lie about anything. Tell her where you're going, what time you'll be back and if you're running late call her. This will help rebuild the trust and the security. If you're going out to do an errand, ask her if she wants to go with you. Take a walk together. Try to plan sometime away, just the two of you. It will help you reconnect. My husband took me away for a weekend and it was the best thing we could have done. It removed us from our familiar place and put us with a familiar person, removed the day to day stuff that we tend to get involved with and made us relax. We started camping, something I had never done. It was fun, peaceful, quiet. He gave me flowers. He told me he loved me every day, and he still does. We fell in love again and it's still beautiful. Good luck stuckbloke. I'll pray for you and I'll put my white light around you for strength. Let us know how things go. We've got plenty of good advice - AND IT'S FREE.
Cis Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 Hi stuck - sorry to hear of your troubles. I revealed ALL to my husband 4 months ago. He's never given us a chance. He asked me to leave the house (I did in March), he quit marriage counseling after 5 sessions, he doesn't make time for us to talk, and has begun an emotional if not physical affair with his ex wife. I've been reading plenty of books. The latest is Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Lots of statistics - seems to me that women (in general) are capable of being more forgiving then men - so at least you've got that going for you. When I decided to be radically honest, I did understand that I had to be prepared for ANYTHING. I had hoped that our marriage had enough behind it that my husband would AT LEAST want to try and work on it. Still Hurting is right about making sure all evidence is either gone or given over. I took the chance of giving all of my emails to my husband. However, once I moved out, my husband discovered more recently and says he's been dragged back to day one. The truth is I didn't and still don't want the marriage I had. I want the marriage I think I am capable of having with my husband - but it was going to take both of us to make it happen. Despite some desperate pleading (even before the affair) I could never get his attention. I had begged him to take my concerns seriously - but he never did. At least now he has attended (1) AA meeting, goes to individual therapy, thinks about thing like - finding joy in every day, making sure alcohol doesn't get in the way of personal relationships, the value of being kind and seeking non-sexual intimacy, etc. I know this would never have happened if I hadn't revealed everything to him. So be prepared to lose your wife, home, money, pets, etc. It could happen. But also be prepared for a chance to create the life you want and deserve - with or without your marriage. I really wish you the best of luck. It's hard to know what a good outcome looks like - I think we'll have to wait at least a few years and look back. Best, Cis
Ladyjane14 Posted May 12, 2005 Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by stuckbloke .....what did you mean by "On the other hand, abuse in your past could have caused you to avoid conflict at all costs, and so....may be valid in the deconstruction of your marriage."? If you generally operate from a position of conflict avoidance, chances are....you've missed opportunities to work on the problems in the relationship BEFORE things got this bad. If you didn't have problems that were left unresolved within the marriage, you might have NEVER opted to step outside the marriage at all. By avoiding the conflict that goes hand-in-hand with dispute and resolution....you've allowed whatever the problem was to go unresolved. Unresolved problems don't just go away of their own volition....they grow and get bigger. Next thing you know.....you're turning outside of the marriage. You've avoided the problems intrinsic to your primary relationship, as well as the conflict that is often necessary to reach an equitable solution. But now.....you've got a HUGE problem, and conflict on a proportionate scale. In the meantime, any more advice on how to tell, would be gratefully recieved. Particularly in terms of the level of detail I go into. What do I do if she insists on knowing things that I know are going to devastate her? Tell the truth, I guess? Still Hurting has given you excellent advice here. Your wife is going to try to reconstruct the crime scene. It's a common response in betrayed spouses. In my personal experience, I had to make myself stop "searching" at a certain point. It becomes almost compulsive. It may help you to be more compassionate to know that we're usually in tears while we're doing this...and trying to put everything back just as the WS (wayward spouse) left it. It's really quite pitiful. You'll need to be an "open book" for her. And that takes ALOT of patience, because the healing time for reconciliation after infidelity is TWO YEARS on average. The loss of trust is TOTAL.....so, in essence, it's like re-learning your partner from the very beginning. You are going to be a 'complete stranger' to her for awhile. That said, it's best to share as few of the sexual details as you can get away with. Too many details here can paint a mental picture, just as if she had actually witnessed it. That can be really traumatizing. It would probably be best to explain your concerns, and then ask her to think about it for a few days. If she STILL wants the info, then you should give it to her. Never go against the "open book" policy.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 12, 2005 Author Posted May 12, 2005 Thank you - that's very helpful. I think the idea of asking her to think about how much detail she wants for a couple of days is a good one. I'm aware I need to be totally honest, and I think that seems possible in a broken state, and that is necessary to reach resolution on this - whatever happens. We have to become two people who see each other for who we are and are able to make a real decision about our future together or not. I have already destroyed all the evidence from the affair - when we agreed to end it, we deleted all pictures, texts, emails, poems, etc etc. We deleted phone numbers, emails etc from everywhere. There is nothing, and my ex-lover did the same. We agreed to end it ss that I could give my marriage a real chance, and she has to go and have a life (no more married men!). We realised that anything that reminded us of each other would prevent us from moving on, so that's done. As to the conflict avoidance - yes, I do do this, and have been aware of it - I was badly bullied at school, and my survival response was to close down, build a wall, act out, retreat into addiction, that kind of thing and that pattern has been repeated here, although I have tried to deal with issues in the marriage. I had therapy in my mid twenties when I broke through the biggest problems this caused and learnt new ways of coping, dealing with conflict assertively etc. We had pre-marriage counselling and we talked about this. My wife is a fighter, and hates being out of control. There were a lot of arguments during our engagement, and all through our marriage and I tried numerous ways to deal with the issues with her. I tried being really reasonable, I always apologised as soon as possible for any wrong I did, I tried letting things go and trying not to challenge her too much, but just listen, I tried arguing back, I tried challenging her, i tried crying, I tried pleading...I tried as many things as I could think of, and her reactions would be defensive, agressive, avoid the issue, excalate the conflict, generalise, swear at me, insult me unti she got her understanding of the issue and her solution to win. The worst thing was the constant raised, hostile, critical tone in her voice and when we disagreed (and we are so different, we disagree on so many things), it became a case of her way or an argument. I tried talking to her about how unhappy I was about this, but she never dealt with it. At some point I must have started to give up and just let things accumulate in me by not dealing with them, because I can't bear to live my life as a hostile argument, where every little thing causes an argument and because there was so much pain. Sex is another part of the problem - it's always really dissapointed me, and aparently "I'm a bit of a woman" (according to W), because if there's been an argument or fight, I don't feel like having sex.. I just don't feel physically or emotionally safe when there's anger and hurt. It got so bad that twice last year I told her that I had been thinking about leaving her. Her response was '**** off and leave then". She didnt even take it seriously. That was nearly a year before the affair started. You are right that now the much bigger issue is the affair. But I guess what I'm saying is that I even when I get over the addiction phase and start to deal with the affair with her, big questions remain for me about the future of our marriage. I am not sure I can tell her I love her every day, but I am reasonably sure that I can be open and honest, available and try everything I can to make it work. I won't take physical violence though and it has to be a marriage that i want to, and can be part of. Sorry - bit of a vent there - caveat that none of the above is offered as excuse. Just need to offload I think. I don't know how long it will be before we even get onto dealing with the above. Had dinner with my sis tonight, which was nice. Spent the whole evening supporting her!, which was good 'distraction' therapy for me too, and reminded me I have a lot to give. She will be devastated when she finds out too, but I also know she will be there for me as a friend, whatever happens. Thanks all.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 13, 2005 Posted May 13, 2005 Originally posted by stuckbloke My wife is a fighter, and hates being out of control. There were a lot of arguments during our engagement, and all through our marriage and I tried numerous ways to deal with the issues with her. I tried being really reasonable, I always apologised as soon as possible for any wrong I did, I tried letting things go and trying not to challenge her too much, but just listen, I tried arguing back, I tried challenging her, i tried crying, I tried pleading...I tried as many things as I could think of, and her reactions would be defensive, agressive, avoid the issue, excalate the conflict, generalise, swear at me, insult me unti she got her understanding of the issue and her solution to win. The worst thing was the constant raised, hostile, critical tone in her voice and when we disagreed (and we are so different, we disagree on so many things), it became a case of her way or an argument. I tried talking to her about how unhappy I was about this, but she never dealt with it. At some point I must have started to give up and just let things accumulate in me by not dealing with them, because I can't bear to live my life as a hostile argument, where every little thing causes an argument and because there was so much pain. Sex is another part of the problem - it's always really dissapointed me, and aparently "I'm a bit of a woman" (according to W), because if there's been an argument or fight, I don't feel like having sex.. I just don't feel physically or emotionally safe when there's anger and hurt. It got so bad that twice last year I told her that I had been thinking about leaving her. Her response was '**** off and leave then". She didnt even take it seriously. That was nearly a year before the affair started. You are right that now the much bigger issue is the affair. But I guess what I'm saying is that I even when I get over the addiction phase and start to deal with the affair with her, big questions remain for me about the future of our marriage. I am not sure I can tell her I love her every day, but I am reasonably sure that I can be open and honest, available and try everything I can to make it work. I won't take physical violence though and it has to be a marriage that i want to, and can be part of. You seem to feel somewhat "bullied" in the relationship. You are REALLY going to need better help than what you can get from your church-based counsellor. I hope you'll pursue that. Divorce is an option, but you've stated that you desire to remain in the marriage and keep your family intact. With that in mind, you will need to access your sympathy for your wife, while avoiding the pitfalls of assigning blame. Not an easy task. As I said before, I don't think you're emotionally sound enough right now to be examining anyone else's actions but your own, without the guidance of a trained professional. That said, you are in a bit of a time-crunch right for the moment, because you need the help NOW and haven't got the the therapist in place as yet. So in the interim, you would do well do examine why she feels the need to "bully", not only in terms of her relationship with you, but in relation to other people as well. Most times, people bully others when they are acting out on their own sense of frustration, possibly due to low self-esteem or insecurity. You can access your sympathy in learning more about her motivations.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 13, 2005 Author Posted May 13, 2005 Interesting thoughts. Yes, I do feel bullied in the relationship, have known this for years and have told W this and pointed out the behaviour that makes me feel it ad infinitum. Not dealt with. I'm starting to put my support networks in place (W has hers in place already) and interestingly, out of the blue, an old friend from the psychotheraputic community I was part of ten years ago got in touch. She (and she's gay, by the way) got in touch thru classmates style site and I asked her if I could talk to her about it. She's completely unconnected to anyone I know, and she's been working for a decade in mental health etc and we got on very well when we were in the community (where we were all dealing with some very serious issues). Have spent the day today talking (for the first time, to anyone else) about the affair and what I'm doing with it. I will probably get a therapist at some point to do some more work on it. But I think perhaps I have more insight than you give me credit for. Yes, divorce is an option, and I think primarily for my wife at the moment - I'm not going to do it unilaterally until I've seen her through this and we have got to a place where we can both be very real with each other about whether we want to stay together, but she may decide otherwise at any time. I will walk with her and care for her through all her hurt, however she wants me too, as that's my responsibililty. At some point we'll have to deal with the serious issues that remain though - a year ago, if you had put a gun to my head and asked me to make a decision between walking away now or staying for the rest of my life, I would have walked. And that's way, way before the affair, I talked to W about it at the time, but she dismissed me. I didn't walk out because there wasn't a gun to my head, I just drifted unhappily along. If you put that same gun to my head and gave me the same choice now, I would go. So I desire to be in the marriage because neither of us have got to a place where we can make a sensible decision of this magnitude, and I want to go into this open to the possibility of achieving the marriage I desire with W, but as yet unsure as to whether it is possible with her. I'd like us both to get to a point where we know what to do. Why she needs to bully is easy - she grew up in a household with alcoholic parents where people could only get attention if they shouted at each other and demanded attention and that is how she learnt to get what she needs and how to deal with conflict. She has some insight into that, despite little control over it, but she has no insight into her controlling behaviour, and I'm not sure where she gets that from, but she has, for years, been terrified of being out of control in numerous diverse contexts, and she copes by panicking when she feels even slightly out of control, avoiding any situation that isn't under her control and competing and fighting for control with anyone who disturbs this and taking control where she can... and she has no insight into that... and denies it. The counsellor picked up on it in our second session. She has insecurity and low self esteem for all sorts of reasons, and I'd include her family and me included in those. And a strong pattern between us was that she tends to ask for her needs to be met (and so assumes I will ask for my needs to be met), while I tended to just proactively go about trying to meet her needs (and assuming she would just proactively meet mine). Go figure what things looked like a as a result. There's all sorts of stuff going on here, but now the bugger is that the affair is going to be the big, and only issue we can deal with for a while. I'm not sure how I'm going to cope with this when I was so desolate about the relationship in the first place. I think the sex issue is going to be the hardest, and may be the issue that, in the end, means that she cannot go on with me, if that's where it goes. That is going to be the big big issue that makes or breaks us and my hunch at the moment it may end - if I was a betting man I'd put money on her ending it because of that. But I have been in places in my life where the future was so unimaginable that I know anything is possible, and I will be doing what I can to make it work on the basis that miracles happen and I owe it to our son and my W to do what I can. But we'll only be staying together if I, as well as her get to a point when we'd choose to stay with a gun at our head. I'm a long way from that at the moment. Thanks for the tip about accessing sympathy - at the end of the day love is the action of the heart in caring for someone, isn't it? I won't be assigning blame - it's clear that the affair happened because of my choices - that's it. Then there's another set of issues which are about how I got to the place where I made those choices. And I'll make sure I put a good therap in place. Cheers.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 Help! Am sat in a cafe working, and my lover has just walked in. We saw each other and smiled, but have not spoken. She's in another part of the cafe. I'm shaking... I feel like electric shocks are rushing through me. I'm resisting making any contact with her, or looking at her, but I'm not sure what to do - should I just walk out? Should I tell her I plan to tell my wife (does she have a right to know?) We already agreed not to have any contact with each other. I can barely breathe.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 OK - this is what I did. I sat there for about an hour or so thinking about it. I then got up, went over to her and asked her if I could tell her something. I sat down and told her that I planned to tell my wife in two weeks time at our next counselling session. I explained that this was because the only chance of us having an honest marriage was to do this, but that it might end in divorce. I told her that I would not reveal any contact details for her to my wife (and I will tell my wife that she is misplacing her anger if she wants to get in touch with OW - she needs to direct her anger towards me). I told her that I wouldn't be in contact again unless I was divorced, then I said I'd better go, and left. Talked to her for about 2 minutes in total.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 Have just booked a therapist for thursday evening. Is everyone ignoring me now? No matter... it helps to post anyway.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 16, 2005 Author Posted May 16, 2005 to continue my monologue... the view from tonight is that I did the right thing - OW knows the affair is coming out, and that our one and only mutual friend will know. she knows that there will be no contact between us unless I'm divorced. that's important stuff for her to know - how she's dealing with it, I have absolutely no idea. And it hasn't re-started the withdrawal - but I think it was a close call.
Ladyjane14 Posted May 17, 2005 Posted May 17, 2005 Good news that you're starting counseling. I think it will really help you to feel supported. You seem to be somewhat on the fence. On the one hand, you state that your goal is to keep the marriage and family intact. On the other, you haven't said much that is positive or redeeming in regard to your wife. I think it'll help you tremendously to get to the bottom of all that. As far as your words to OW, I think it's fairly human to break your NC in that situation. You got caught with your guard down, and really hadn't developed a plan for occasionally bumping into one another. It would probably be beneficial to have a coping strategy in place, should a similar situation arise.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 17, 2005 Author Posted May 17, 2005 Mmm - am deeply ambivalent about it - I haven't said I want to keep the marriage together - I've said I'm really not sure, so yes - am totally on the fence. I'm sure the counselling will help to work out what to do. I am committed to having nc with ow and doing what I can to try to make the marriage work for at least the next six months/year- the cost of splitting up is big, and there's no point doing that unless it's the only way left. But there are very serious problems in this marriage that had me feeling I wanted to leave over a year ago - 6 months before I had the EMA. So it's not like that's suddenly changed, and obviously, there are additional issues now. I'm just trying to do the right thing, that's all.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 18, 2005 Author Posted May 18, 2005 W has just been talking to me about how down she is, because I'm not emotionally engaged, and isn't sure how long she can go on like this - that we're not being a couple, and she's drained. She's very down. I know I'm only going to make things worse when I tell her about the A, but I now know that the only hope we have for reconnecting is to bring this out in the open... it's dominating my thoughts and feelings, and I can't be real unless she knows. Am praying for help, and am very scared. Have decided to write her a letter saying sorry, that the affair is over and that I am prepared to do anything to see if it can work out between us. Will take this to the counselling session next Friday in case she walks out, or I am unable to talk, or she tells me to leave. Have taken the whole week after the next counselling session off work so I can deal with this and look after our child while she deals with this, and have an appointment with a therapist tomorrow evening. Am understanding how deaf and blind to W I was during the affair - I have behaved appallingly - nothing she did to me deserves this crap. So so so much to work through. What a mess.
Cis Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 You're doing the right thing....but I can tell you - it's gonna be hell. 4 months after "coming clean" - my husband remains ambivalent about even wanting to consider working on "us". A friend emailed me today and suggested I keep putting it out to my husband that I want to see if the marriage can/will work....that I've not given up - and can he meet me 1/2 way in this? What will it take for him to find forgiveness in his heart? Have people forgiven him for mistakes he made and how did that feel to him? Of course this is fodder for conversation when you are a longer way down the road... (Sadly my husband seems more interested in revenge and retribution - but I haven't given up.) all the best Cis
Author stuckbloke Posted May 18, 2005 Author Posted May 18, 2005 Thanks Cis - tried to pm you but for some reason I can't - anyone know why? It IS going to be hell, I know that, but at least it will be real. And at least I'm starting to do the right things now, even though I'm still ambivalent about the marriage. No idea what's going to happen, apart from the certainty that I'm going to cause a shedload of hurt and pain for W and all my family/friends, and my reputation is going down the tube.
whichwayisup Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 SB, keep posting, I think you need a certain amount of posts before you get priviledges of PMing. Go about other forums and do some replies to others, that will bump your quota up faster. Hang in there, you're in for a rollercoaster ride. Don't give up and I do hope the MC helps both of you to work together.
Author stuckbloke Posted May 19, 2005 Author Posted May 19, 2005 Am trying to write a letter to W to take to the counselling session where I'm planning to tell her about the A - if anyone can be bothered to read this, I'd appreciate any feedback/comment/help... Dear (W) I’m writing you this letter in case I am unable to talk, or if you leave the counselling session, or ask me to leave. I have just told you that I have had an affair, I don’t know what happens after that, but I have thought long and hard about what has happened, and I need to be able to tell you some things while my mind is clear and outside the heat of the situation we are now in. I know now that what I have done was profoundly wrong - thoughtless, heartless, selfish and cruel to you. I have given you a measure of pain I cannot even begin to imagine, and you have every right to be furious with me for my betrayal and violation of our vows. I offer absolutely no excuses for what happened whatsoever. I deeply regret the pain I’ve caused you, and I am very, very sorry for the lies I have told you. I understand that all the pain you are feeling now is my responsibility alone. There is nothing that you have ever done to me to deserve the way you are feeling now. While the affair was going on I was deaf and blind to you and your needs, and treated you with appalling disrespect. Since it ended I have been unable to be honest and open with you because I have been hiding this truth from you. I hope that one day you might be able to forgive me. The reason I have chosen to tell you about it is because I have come to realise that our marriage has absolutely no chance unless you know the truth, the lies stop completely and we can come to a place where we can be very real and honest with each other. I understand that in telling you, I might have placed our marriage beyond repair, and you now have every right to bring it to a halt. If so, I will understand and accept this, and will focus completely on working with you to raise (our son) as best we can from now on – I know that whatever happens between us, we both love him completely and are totally committed to him. I understand that you will not be able to trust me, nor believe me now. I can only tell you that I have made a decision to be completely honest with myself and with you from now on, because whether we stay together or not, we need to base our lives on the truth. You have a right to know who I am and what I did, so the deceit ends now. The affair started in mid December last year, and ended in the middle of April, six weeks ago. We both committed to having no further contact. Nobody ever found out about it, and I have only spoken about it with the therapist that I have just started seeing, and (friends' name), my friend from the therapuetic hospital, who I turned to for support. I will take responsibility for telling people who you decide should hear it from me. I have read about affairs in order to understand why this happened, and how it might be possible to recover. I understand that you will want to know the details of what happened, and I have committed myself to answering all your questions truthfully, however hard that might be for both of us. I ask only that you think very carefully about what you want to know, because it may be the case that the answers I give you will traumatise you further. The only information I will not give you is how to contact her, because your anger should be directed at me, not her. I still hold hope that we might have a future together, although at the moment, I don’t know how. I do know that this pain is my responsibility and that if you want me to, I will be beside you through it. I understand you may not want me to, and that is your prerogative. I am willing to try anything to make this work between us, except returning to the kind of marriage that we had before this happened. You know that I tried telling you how unhappy I was, but nothing seemed to help. It’s important for you to realise that I do not say that to excuse my behaviour, or to point to reasons why it happened, but simply to say that we cannot go on as before – there were serious problems in our marriage before this happened, although I realise that now this affair will become the big issue that we need to overcome if we are to continue together. I understand that I have treated you without even basic human respect, and do not deserve any respect from you, but we can only go on as a married couple if both of us can find happiness in that, and despite my actions, please try to remember I am still a human being, and half of this marriage. I know that we both need help – as a couple, and as individuals. I strongly believe that we need to find a way to pay for you to see a counsellor or therapist to support you. I know that I need to continue seeing mine, and that we need to continue seeing (RC), whether or not we continue together. She will be able to help us whatever happens. I hope that love might rise like a phoenix from the ashes we are now staring at, but our future is now no longer my decision alone – the belief that it was just a matter of me deciding was based on a lie. Whatever happens from now on, I promise that I will be truthful to you and treat you with the respect that you deserve. I will not be leaving unless you want me to, or if we agree together that we cannot carry on with each other. I am so sorry.
whichwayisup Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 That's a good letter SB. You now have to act on what you've said. MAKE it up to her, keep telling her you love her and will do everything necessary to make it up for what you did. Understand her pain, allow her to FEEL that pain and KEEP on telling her you are so sorry for what you did. Read DazednConfused thread. Pretty much nails what your wife is about to go through and he gives some wonderful - Yet painful - insight of the rollercoaster ride. Good luck at MC.
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