Is it really me?

[difficult_decisions]

Oh, ok I will reply to this in a little bit. This is a lot more information which will help us figure it out a little better. Yeah, I guess you probably need a certain number of posts before you can private message. No worries, I'll see it here.

 

Thanks I look forward to it I just thought that I should text her again tomorrow and say "This could be a little presumptuous of me, but if you're not too busy later this week, we should grab that drink", instead of what I said in my previous post.

[RoseVille]

I was just being stupid and not sure what went through my mind when I thought about doing that. The weekend before, she had invited me over once, but because of a circumstance where I left something at her place, she offered to have me stay over again for the second night because it was closer to work for me. So for some reason I felt like, it was okay to do it again. Dumb on my part, which was why I acknowledged what I did and apologized to her the next day. I'm not so much clingly, presumptuous, possibly, but moreso down on myself for doing one mistake, where I could've clearly avoided, so I wouldn't be in the predicament. I basically feel like I ruined something that was going well.

 

The difference is, she invited you the first time. Never assume it'll happen again, or that it's a given that you're welcome whenever you want. Don't even do that with platonic friends.

[Versacehottie]

I wish I had the ability to private message you. Your advice is so in depth and really explains everything that I've been going through accurately. Thank you for that.

 

A lot of what you're saying makes it sound like there's some kind of hope to this still. To give more of a background, the weeks following that one weekend, a lot of her texts started to get non engaging. We use to text everyday for a good amount like 10 minute replies. Then it turned into 2-3 days now. Originally, I played it cool, trying to talk to her, but she would never reciprocate or answer questions like she use to. I asked her if she was still down to grab drinks one night and she said sure, but didn't answer when I asked when she was free. So I tried again the next day and asked if the weekend would work. She replied that she was busy. That's when I brought it up that I didn't want to drag things out any longer. I told her I noticed she started to distance herself and wanted to know if she was comfortable talking about it. Told her I enjoyed spending time with her and want to see where things go if she's still up for it. She replied a day later with her response:

 

"Sorry It's been a busy few days. I enjoy hanging out with you too, but I do admit I pulled back a little . I am a very independent person and it's hard for me to adjust if that makes sense".

 

I replied to that saying I understand, thank you for your honesty and we need to be a little more open, but still haven't heard from her since. So it was already apparent that communication became less and less, and I don't know if her last reply about her independence was to just nicely put me down to stop contacting her, or if there's still something there. I'm not sure if I should text again, seeing that I already texted her, and I should've asked her what her independence looked like to her. Would you think it's a good idea to text her again? Maybe I should say something light like "Sure seems like a lot of independence to me, if this was what you're thinking". I know if I did this, she might think "This guy just can't get the message". I'm not quite she if she would even be interested in talking more in depth about the specifics of the pacing, when we should talk and how often. I just don't know how to proceed here. I want to salvage what I can here, but in doing so, I might push her even further away.

 

To answer your question about the weekend. She told me she was the type of person that liked to have plans beforehand and follow through on them, this meant that all of the dates I had to plan out and tell her when and where. Not once did she suggest something or offer any input. She would just agree to it and not say that she was busy. So it was just obvious to me when she said she was busy this past weekend, but still wanted to grab drinks.

 

Hmmm ok let's take it step by step. Is there hope for this one still? Ok, first I want you to rephrase the question in your own mind. The real question is: after what has happened and she has basically with her actions sent you into an assessment mode, do YOU still want something with her? In my previous post with all those questions, I think if you answer those in your way, rather than my example answers you will have a better idea. Let's say in terms of being your good match: she is a 5 or 6 out of 10. Not talking looks, I'm talk overall perfect for you--your ideal person. Back to the framework again, let's say she rates a 6, sometimes it's better to walk away. You might get more in this case in a sense of trusting yourself and making a proactive decision to decide YOU are walking away. If she's only a 6 to you, you know you can do better. I know you can because you keep having no problem getting into 2 month relationships. So that's when it comes back to standards. It's not like 3 strikes and you're out. That's passive and waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's not like stating your intentions upfront and thinking nothing will go wrong (though that can be a bit helpful). It's like now. She is doing some things that wouldn't sit well with most people. How do you feel about it? So you can wait and keep trying in spite of what she is doing and how you feel about it because you want a girlfriend and let her make the decisions. OR you can decide you deserve better. She doesn't meet your standard of what you think an ideal gf would be like and bail yourself--independent of whatever she is going to do or is doing. I said 5 or 6 because I'm counting the talking about other guys and bad manners is not something that most guys would want in their ideal relationship.

 

Ok, turning to the texting. That much texting is gonna flame out even in a good relationship. Save that stuff for the dates. Where is fitnessfan when I need him? He usually says just use texting to set up the dates pretty much or something to that effect. I do think you want to keep in mind (generally) how long the replies are taking. She went from 10 minutes to hours to days. How does that sit with you? I think she is just trying to assert her boundaries here and wouldn't completely fault her for this. This is probably partly your fault as well for letting that pattern be established in the beginning. It sounds game play-y but if you make yourself that available to someone else, they are not going to value your time, which in turn becomes them not valuing you or taking you for granted. How does it sit with you that she just ignored your last invite of drinks? And never came back to you with a time that she was free? This is when you go back to standards and pacing. You let her get back to you about when. If she never gets back to you, so be it. You will be fine. You can meet others and you were only 5-6 dates into it anyway. If she's the kind of person who doesn't answer, you wouldn't want to be with her anyway, would you? And you have your answer. You wouldn't need to even feel bad about it because you don't date people like that! So good thing you found out now. I'm just saying this as an example but it's the line of thinking your mind should somewhat go down. You do sound like a gentleman with good manners so don't you want the same in your partner?

 

Ok what I bolded above is where I think your insecurity and impatience got the best of you. You could have said the rest of what you said to her and been fine and still shown that you don't want to waste your time and are deserving of an answer. I don't want to drag things out any longer, presumes a bad ending. It's demanding and comes from a negative place and is not confident. The rest of what you said sounds like good communication that comes from a positive, caring place and is your best chance. It also sounds confident and implies that you are assessing the relationship without sounding overly emotional about it nor too invested. You can also do it by matching, as Oregon dude said, the time frame one takes to get back to you. Or match the actions. Or this one is a little game play-y but sometimes I'm not above advising that: when she said she has her independent life, you could have responded: yeah you are right we did kind move things a little fast and I totally get it; there are some things I've been neglecting too. It was just exciting and I got caught up in the moment. The reason that it's game play-y is that is obviously not how you are feeling when you are hearing this for the first time. However, it's really not when you are able to catch your breath, take a step back and realize that if she is dialing down, you want to dial it down too. She is not the only fish in the sea. I mean you said it yourself: that you did not exactly feel as good about her based on her saying/doing this, right? And reasonably, realistic you knows in some ways she is right about this. You will have other options. Operate from a place of abundance and certainty in yourself and your attractiveness. In some ways responding in kind, and specifically like this in this instance provides a reset. It's like a reset button. Basically you are matching her step for step with your/her pace. Now if this is inauthentic to you it's not going to work. But logical, confident you should be able to do this: provide she is holding your interest, no one else comes along and she is not unreasonable with her level of contact. So see why it's important to remain in the moment? Don't jump further ahead than what you are receiving. See when I read her sentence to you, it sounds good and honest. I see it as positive and you are just going too fast for her. Sure it's possible you are just one of several options to her but like you said before, it's open-ended. Think positive from that reply. Your actions and communication will reflect that you see it as such and you will have better results.

 

As far as texting her or getting back into touch. I kinda feel like the ball is in her court. I wouldn't come back to her with the joke like I originally said. I thought you guys were still talking pretty much. If she was dialing it down, never answered two requests for dates and then when you called her out on it, said what she said: the ball is in her court as far as when to go out. I would salvage, if you want to, by SHOWING her that you can move at a different pace. I would just be in touch about stuff you have in common, whatever you were overly texting about before and see if the spark re-ignites. That is one good thing about overtexting previously, you probably have stuff that it would be normal to text about. just be in touch a bit not a lot and don't have it go on and on. Don't ask her out again. Wait until she suggests it or hinting at it. Make sure you sound busy and on the run. Well that's when I would text her--when you are or have just finished or about to do something. If you met her because you were traveling, maybe for example you do that a lot and since she is a flight attendant it would be normal to bring some of your travels into the convo. Shoot i'm just rambling now. I'm not making much sense. It's hard to break this process down

 

You shouldn't bring up the independence thing as a joke now it will just sound like you are bitter or still stuck on it. Now that I know the context. Once you are back in the door with her you can figure that stuff out. Basically if you match her pacing and show that you can have your own life and be patient and nonchalant, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

Now big caution. We can figure out a better strategy but some people still are not going to be the right ones for you. Or sometimes things got messed up at the beginning and the momentum is such that it's unrecoverable and not going to work out. I really think you should figure out if you want to pursue this girl and why before you move forward with trying to do it. Like you said it's hard to do it within the situation. Sometimes a fresh, clean slate is what you need. And to answer a question about how to avoid heartache is you treat yourself better than anyone is ever going to treat you. So it may be hard and you might a twinge of what could have been but won't feel bad that you carry with you to the next one if you walk away from this. Especially if it feels like a lost cause. Tell me more of why you think she'd be good for you and why you'd want to keep pursuing.

 

*sorry I'm tired and am not the best at forming thoughts tonight so I hope I'm making sense.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Versacehottie

[difficult_decisions]

Hmmm ok let's take it step by step. Is there hope for this one still? Ok, first I want you to rephrase the question in your own mind. The real question is: after what has happened and she has basically with her actions sent you into an assessment mode, do YOU still want something with her? In my previous post with all those questions, I think if you answer those in your way, rather than my example answers you will have a better idea. Let's say in terms of being your good match: she is a 5 or 6 out of 10. Not talking looks, I'm talk overall perfect for you--your ideal person. Back to the framework again, let's say she rates a 6, sometimes it's better to walk away. You might get more in this case in a sense of trusting yourself and making a proactive decision to decide YOU are walking away. If she's only a 6 to you, you know you can do better. I know you can because you keep having no problem getting into 2 month relationships. So that's when it comes back to standards. It's not like 3 strikes and you're out. That's passive and waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's not like stating your intentions upfront and thinking nothing will go wrong (though that can be a bit helpful). It's like now. She is doing some things that wouldn't sit well with most people. How do you feel about it? So you can wait and keep trying in spite of what she is doing and how you feel about it because you want a girlfriend and let her make the decisions. OR you can decide you deserve better. She doesn't meet your standard of what you think an ideal gf would be like and bail yourself--independent of whatever she is going to do or is doing. I said 5 or 6 because I'm counting the talking about other guys and bad manners is not something that most guys would want in their ideal relationship.

 

Ok, turning to the texting. That much texting is gonna flame out even in a good relationship. Save that stuff for the dates. Where is fitnessfan when I need him? He usually says just use texting to set up the dates pretty much or something to that effect. I do think you want to keep in mind (generally) how long the replies are taking. She went from 10 minutes to hours to days. How does that sit with you? I think she is just trying to assert her boundaries here and wouldn't completely fault her for this. This is probably partly your fault as well for letting that pattern be established in the beginning. It sounds game play-y but if you make yourself that available to someone else, they are not going to value your time, which in turn becomes them not valuing you or taking you for granted. How does it sit with you that she just ignored your last invite of drinks? And never came back to you with a time that she was free? This is when you go back to standards and pacing. You let her get back to you about when. If she never gets back to you, so be it. You will be fine. You can meet others and you were only 5-6 dates into it anyway. If she's the kind of person who doesn't answer, you wouldn't want to be with her anyway, would you? And you have your answer. You wouldn't need to even feel bad about it because you don't date people like that! So good thing you found out now. I'm just saying this as an example but it's the line of thinking your mind should somewhat go down. You do sound like a gentleman with good manners so don't you want the same in your partner?

 

Ok what I bolded above is where I think your insecurity and impatience got the best of you. You could have said the rest of what you said to her and been fine and still shown that you don't want to waste your time and are deserving of an answer. I don't want to drag things out any longer, presumes a bad ending. It's demanding and comes from a negative place and is not confident. The rest of what you said sounds like good communication that comes from a positive, caring place and is your best chance. It also sounds confident and implies that you are assessing the relationship without sounding overly emotional about it nor too invested. You can also do it by matching, as Oregon dude said, the time frame one takes to get back to you. Or match the actions. Or this one is a little game play-y but sometimes I'm not above advising that: when she said she has her independent life, you could have responded: yeah you are right we did kind move things a little fast and I totally get it; there are some things I've been neglecting too. It was just exciting and I got caught up in the moment. The reason that it's game play-y is that is obviously not how you are feeling when you are hearing this for the first time. However, it's really not when you are able to catch your breath, take a step back and realize that if she is dialing down, you want to dial it down too. She is not the only fish in the sea. I mean you said it yourself: that you did not exactly feel as good about her based on her saying/doing this, right? And reasonably, realistic you knows in some ways she is right about this. You will have other options. Operate from a place of abundance and certainty in yourself and your attractiveness. In some ways responding in kind, and specifically like this in this instance provides a reset. It's like a reset button. Basically you are matching her step for step with your/her pace. Now if this is inauthentic to you it's not going to work. But logical, confident you should be able to do this: provide she is holding your interest, no one else comes along and she is not unreasonable with her level of contact. So see why it's important to remain in the moment? Don't jump further ahead than what you are receiving. See when I read her sentence to you, it sounds good and honest. I see it as positive and you are just going too fast for her. Sure it's possible you are just one of several options to her but like you said before, it's open-ended. Think positive from that reply. Your actions and communication will reflect that you see it as such and you will have better results.

 

As far as texting her or getting back into touch. I kinda feel like the ball is in her court. I wouldn't come back to her with the joke like I originally said. I thought you guys were still talking pretty much. If she was dialing it down, never answered two requests for dates and then when you called her out on it, said what she said: the ball is in her court as far as when to go out. I would salvage, if you want to, by SHOWING her that you can move at a different pace. I would just be in touch about stuff you have in common, whatever you were overly texting about before and see if the spark re-ignites. That is one good thing about overtexting previously, you probably have stuff that it would be normal to text about. just be in touch a bit not a lot and don't have it go on and on. Don't ask her out again. Wait until she suggests it or hinting at it. Make sure you sound busy and on the run. Well that's when I would text her--when you are or have just finished or about to do something. If you met her because you were traveling, maybe for example you do that a lot and since she is a flight attendant it would be normal to bring some of your travels into the convo. Shoot i'm just rambling now. I'm not making much sense. It's hard to break this process down

 

You shouldn't bring up the independence thing as a joke now it will just sound like you are bitter or still stuck on it. Now that I know the context. Once you are back in the door with her you can figure that stuff out. Basically if you match her pacing and show that you can have your own life and be patient and nonchalant, you shouldn't have a problem.

 

Now big caution. We can figure out a better strategy but some people still are not going to be the right ones for you. Or sometimes things got messed up at the beginning and the momentum is such that it's unrecoverable and not going to work out. I really think you should figure out if you want to pursue this girl and why before you move forward with trying to do it. Like you said it's hard to do it within the situation. Sometimes a fresh, clean slate is what you need. And to answer a question about how to avoid heartache is you treat yourself better than anyone is ever going to treat you. So it may be hard and you might a twinge of what could have been but won't feel bad that you carry with you to the next one if you walk away from this. Especially if it feels like a lost cause. Tell me more of why you think she'd be good for you and why you'd want to keep pursuing.

 

*sorry I'm tired and am not the best at forming thoughts tonight so I hope I'm making sense.

 

I think I just made a mistake by messaging her on fb earlier saying hey. I want to hear your honest opinion on this, because I've been talking to a lot of my friends about it. Is this a lost cause? I can't know if she's a good fit for me yet because there's still so much more I want to get to know about her. She attracted me for a reason, shouldn't that warrant some kind of effort to genuinely get to know her better? I really enjoyed the time I spent with her and I feel like she's definitely the kind of person that would challenge me to take things slow and test my patience. I just don't know if I still have a chance or not.

 

I keep feeling the urge to explain things more to her, like the fact that you mentioned "yeah you are right we did kind move things a little fast and I totally get it; there are some things I've been neglecting too. It was just exciting and I got caught up in the moment." I want to let her know that, what I did that weekend was definitely presumptuous, but if I said that in another text, 3 days after my last, it'll be like you said, I'm stuck on that topic. That's why I want to harmlessly ask her if she was free later this week for the drinks. Even though she never really answered my questions on when, she said she would be down to go. Is she being game-y? Or just saying sure, then being flakey about it.

 

I want to keep in touch, I just don't know how I can randomly text her out of the blue one day and talk about something. I just wish she could be blunt about her not wanting to talk to me because she's not interested in me anymore.

 

It's really ironic, the day I met this girl, I was dating another girl at the time. A week later that girl texted me asking me what happened? And I honestly just told her that I didn't want to continue because I didn't feel the attraction anymore. It probably saved her a lot of trouble.

[Versacehottie]

I think I just made a mistake by messaging her on fb earlier saying hey. I want to hear your honest opinion on this, because I've been talking to a lot of my friends about it. Is this a lost cause? I can't know if she's a good fit for me yet because there's still so much more I want to get to know about her. She attracted me for a reason, shouldn't that warrant some kind of effort to genuinely get to know her better? I really enjoyed the time I spent with her and I feel like she's definitely the kind of person that would challenge me to take things slow and test my patience. I just don't know if I still have a chance or not.

 

I keep feeling the urge to explain things more to her, like the fact that you mentioned "yeah you are right we did kind move things a little fast and I totally get it; there are some things I've been neglecting too. It was just exciting and I got caught up in the moment." I want to let her know that, what I did that weekend was definitely presumptuous, but if I said that in another text, 3 days after my last, it'll be like you said, I'm stuck on that topic. That's why I want to harmlessly ask her if she was free later this week for the drinks. Even though she never really answered my questions on when, she said she would be down to go. Is she being game-y? Or just saying sure, then being flakey about it.

 

I want to keep in touch, I just don't know how I can randomly text her out of the blue one day and talk about something. I just wish she could be blunt about her not wanting to talk to me because she's not interested in me anymore.

 

It's really ironic, the day I met this girl, I was dating another girl at the time. A week later that girl texted me asking me what happened? And I honestly just told her that I didn't want to continue because I didn't feel the attraction anymore. It probably saved her a lot of trouble.

 

So is FB your usually method of communicating? Or was it texting? My point is you should do the usual. FB seems like the most removed way to communicate vs texting or calling. If it's your normal than that's good. Otherwise, using the most removed sounds like you are being timid about things. So does just saying "hey". That is too passive. There is a big question mark at the end of just saying "hey" after a disagreement or point of conflict. It might as well be "hey?" It is like there's a big question mark of "is she still interested?" rather than powering through with Hey, thought about you today and blah blah blah (whatever is unique to you guys). Waiting for the other shoe to drop. So I sure hope you said something else besides "hey". At this critical moment, you want to be perceived in your best self way. That what has happened has not phased you. That is what lets the other person know "ok, it might be fine to continue with this guy".

 

Ok, my honest opinion (not a crystal ball of what will happen) is that she may have already be too far out of it. Loss of momentum with contact, a conflict, a hard weekend, and the disrespect of talking about other guys in front of you is insight into what she thinks of your future together at this point and how she might be affected by things. Not to mention the burping! A little thing but it does seem to say she thinks you are not going anywhere which would be great IF it went hand in hand with a lot of contact and spending time together. Some people get into relationship that fast and fall into each other mutually. But coupled with less contact, the disrespect (essentially a warning that she is talking to other guys) I don't think it foreshadows well.

 

As someone with fairly firm standards in place, I'm actually not sure why you would want to get to know her better. Are you sure it isn't just so you can "win" this one over? Even your reasons for wanting to keep seeing her, they are just kind of generic. And you are doing it again with: she attract me so I should get to know her better. You are jumping to the end. Same with we had fun. But especially there was initial attraction. Sometimes that's all it is. First moment was fun, now not so much. Don't read so much into things. Well that a person challenged you to be patient etc already sounds like you are doormating yourself for her. But guess what? You can still have the experience with her right now, even with no/little contact. Because you will need to use your patience and take things slow to get to next step with her no matter what. And you can practice this now. Let her make the next move. You can exhibit some of the things she has essentially told you she needs. Now keep in mind you are not doing these things to get this particular girl. You are doing them because you really, really are now aware of your patterns and the need to make a change. ps. i am only saying this constructively I know there are plenty of good things about you but those parts don't need work. So don't think of yourself as flawed and get into a negative space.

 

The only redeemable thing that I caught from what you said about her so far is how she worded that message to you when she basically asked for space. Very mature response, kind and open-ended. So you may have a chance with her but you have to give her a chance to take it. You can't force it on her or be impatient about it. So you might still have a chance but not if you show her that you cannot do the one thing she has asked for. Give her space and some time. You can explain your thoughts the next time you have a deeper discussion about you two--which you should let her start the ball rolling. Right now I think you need to show her that you are not intense. If you contact her 3 days afterward to say your piece now, it will look like you've been stewing and it's a desperate move, which lets face it is exactly why you'd been doing it. You have to trust that you are enough as she knows you so far and that if it's meant to happen the next time you go to drinks you can say, after having some fun and light moments that really let you reconnect. Say oh you know about that little bump in the road we had i'm sorry it happened and then blah, blah (what I said). That says that you reflected a little bit and partly because she has been fun with you that night you are willing to truly move forward. It will convey that she TOO had to earn her way back in with you--as it should be!

 

My opinion on the drinks, no. Let her get in touch with you first and see how it evolves. Now there is no question that she owes you SOME response since you "hey"'d her on FB. Otherwise she is ignoring you. She wanted space you are giving it to like any confident man with other choices would. Listen she was bold enough to give you her number--you think she's not gonna say anything when you've made an offer to see her. She will pick that up when and if she is ready too. Don't try to get into her head. It doesn't matter the action speaks for itself. It's not a priority otherwise she would be in touch. That's your impatience getting the best of you.

 

What did you used to text about? There has got to be something in all that stuff that would be a pertinent come back into a new text with, right? Or just something confident. Just thinking about you and wanted to say hi! But if you did the "hey" now the ball is in her court. See that's pacing.

 

What?!!! on the second thing I bolded. That's a defeatist attitude. It's not attractive. Honestly, we gotta get this together and under control. People can read thru that sh*t and it colors everything you do. You are starting from a place as if you already lost! You should have enough going on that you are not stressing like this. People do of course and you are just being honest here anonymously. And if this is the case, why do you need her to tell you? The actions speak for themselves. It's maybe a rude thing to do 4-5 dates in and having spent the weekend together but are you really surprised, she has shown you other rude qualities. You should be deciding honestly that maybe she is not good enough for you not holding on for dear life. That is seeing what is going on, the actions and the reality in perspective.

 

Why did you dump the other girl right when you met this one? Did you really lose attraction to her in a matter of days? Or did you just hope that it would work out with this one? See you are jumping to the end. You didn't know what was going to happen with this one so you didn't need to do that. If you really really feel that you can only date one person at a time then I guess. But people who approach relationships with anxiety are in need of multi-dating more than others. Otherwise all their relationship anxiety goes onto one person and it's too much. It's not even true excitement about that person; it's just a desire to get clarity and get deeper into the relationship.

 

Ok that's what my opinion is. You just need to let her make the next move. I think with this one, she has enough ego that she will be in touch. Well fill me in on the rest, if any, of the "hey" message; I might revise. But I do think her ego is not gonna believe it if she thinks you are not still "in this" and bold enough and forthright enough that she will speak up and contact you if she is still interested.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Versacehottie

[difficult_decisions]

So is FB your usually method of communicating? Or was it texting? My point is you should do the usual. FB seems like the most removed way to communicate vs texting or calling. If it's your normal than that's good. Otherwise, using the most removed sounds like you are being timid about things. So does just saying "hey". That is too passive. There is a big question mark at the end of just saying "hey" after a disagreement or point of conflict. It might as well be "hey?" It is like there's a big question mark of "is she still interested?" rather than powering through with Hey, thought about you today and blah blah blah (whatever is unique to you guys). Waiting for the other shoe to drop. So I sure hope you said something else besides "hey". At this critical moment, you want to be perceived in your best self way. That what has happened has not phased you. That is what lets the other person know "ok, it might be fine to continue with this guy".

 

Ok, my honest opinion (not a crystal ball of what will happen) is that she may have already be too far out of it. Loss of momentum with contact, a conflict, a hard weekend, and the disrespect of talking about other guys in front of you is insight into what she thinks of your future together at this point and how she might be affected by things. Not to mention the burping! A little thing but it does seem to say she thinks you are not going anywhere which would be great IF it went hand in hand with a lot of contact and spending time together. Some people get into relationship that fast and fall into each other mutually. But coupled with less contact, the disrespect (essentially a warning that she is talking to other guys) I don't think it foreshadows well.

 

As someone with fairly firm standards in place, I'm actually not sure why you would want to get to know her better. Are you sure it isn't just so you can "win" this one over? Even your reasons for wanting to keep seeing her, they are just kind of generic. And you are doing it again with: she attract me so I should get to know her better. You are jumping to the end. Same with we had fun. But especially there was initial attraction. Sometimes that's all it is. First moment was fun, now not so much. Don't read so much into things. Well that a person challenged you to be patient etc already sounds like you are doormating yourself for her. But guess what? You can still have the experience with her right now, even with no/little contact. Because you will need to use your patience and take things slow to get to next step with her no matter what. And you can practice this now. Let her make the next move. You can exhibit some of the things she has essentially told you she needs. Now keep in mind you are not doing these things to get this particular girl. You are doing them because you really, really are now aware of your patterns and the need to make a change. ps. i am only saying this constructively I know there are plenty of good things about you but those parts don't need work. So don't think of yourself as flawed and get into a negative space.

 

The only redeemable thing that I caught from what you said about her so far is how she worded that message to you when she basically asked for space. Very mature response, kind and open-ended. So you may have a chance with her but you have to give her a chance to take it. You can't force it on her or be impatient about it. So you might still have a chance but not if you show her that you cannot do the one thing she has asked for. Give her space and some time. You can explain your thoughts the next time you have a deeper discussion about you two--which you should let her start the ball rolling. Right now I think you need to show her that you are not intense. If you contact her 3 days afterward to say your piece now, it will look like you've been stewing and it's a desperate move, which lets face it is exactly why you'd been doing it. You have to trust that you are enough as she knows you so far and that if it's meant to happen the next time you go to drinks you can say, after having some fun and light moments that really let you reconnect. Say oh you know about that little bump in the road we had i'm sorry it happened and then blah, blah (what I said). That says that you reflected a little bit and partly because she has been fun with you that night you are willing to truly move forward. It will convey that she TOO had to earn her way back in with you--as it should be!

 

My opinion on the drinks, no. Let her get in touch with you first and see how it evolves. Now there is no question that she owes you SOME response since you "hey"'d her on FB. Otherwise she is ignoring you. She wanted space you are giving it to like any confident man with other choices would. Listen she was bold enough to give you her number--you think she's not gonna say anything when you've made an offer to see her. She will pick that up when and if she is ready too. Don't try to get into her head. It doesn't matter the action speaks for itself. It's not a priority otherwise she would be in touch. That's your impatience getting the best of you.

 

What did you used to text about? There has got to be something in all that stuff that would be a pertinent come back into a new text with, right? Or just something confident. Just thinking about you and wanted to say hi! But if you did the "hey" now the ball is in her court. See that's pacing.

 

What?!!! on the second thing I bolded. That's a defeatist attitude. It's not attractive. Honestly, we gotta get this together and under control. People can read thru that sh*t and it colors everything you do. You are starting from a place as if you already lost! You should have enough going on that you are not stressing like this. People do of course and you are just being honest here anonymously. And if this is the case, why do you need her to tell you? The actions speak for themselves. It's maybe a rude thing to do 4-5 dates in and having spent the weekend together but are you really surprised, she has shown you other rude qualities. You should be deciding honestly that maybe she is not good enough for you not holding on for dear life. That is seeing what is going on, the actions and the reality in perspective.

 

Why did you dump the other girl right when you met this one? Did you really lose attraction to her in a matter of days? Or did you just hope that it would work out with this one? See you are jumping to the end. You didn't know what was going to happen with this one so you didn't need to do that. If you really really feel that you can only date one person at a time then I guess. But people who approach relationships with anxiety are in need of multi-dating more than others. Otherwise all their relationship anxiety goes onto one person and it's too much. It's not even true excitement about that person; it's just a desire to get clarity and get deeper into the relationship.

 

Ok that's what my opinion is. You just need to let her make the next move. I think with this one, she has enough ego that she will be in touch. Well fill me in on the rest, if any, of the "hey" message; I might revise. But I do think her ego is not gonna believe it if she thinks you are not still "in this" and bold enough and forthright enough that she will speak up and contact you if she is still interested.

 

No I never talked to her on fb. I just happened to see her online and thought I'd reach out, so I said hey there, to which she replied Fb? did you lose my number? to which I said no, just saw you online and wanted to say whats up and proceed to say something that related to her. Then never got a response after that.

 

A lot of our conversations in the past revolved around her interest in a very distinct hobby (I don't want to give it away because you never know if she'll ever stumble upon this whole thread haha). And that's pretty much what I can build my conversations on.

 

I completely understand where you're coming from on why you asked me what are some values about her that has me so pinned on her, and you could be right that it's because I want to "win" her over. I just honestly want things to go back to where they were. I realized the mistakes I made and want another shot at it. I just hope she sees it that way. It's just hard for me to see if she really is asking for space or asking to leave her alone completely. If it's the former, I will respect that and make an effort to try things differently. I want to show her I can do it.

 

I really agree with what you said - "Now keep in mind you are not doing these things to get this particular girl. You are doing them because you really, really are now aware of your patterns and the need to make a change." and I'm going to stick to that.

 

To reiterate what you're saying at the end, I want to get this straight, is that she has enough ego that she knows that I'm in it still. So the best bet I can do is not contact and do my own thing. She may or may not reach back out depending on how she feels. Maybe I shouldn't have messaged her, if I'm trying to give her space. It's just a bit confusing on how I can show pacing and that I respect her space when the ball is in her court.

[difficult_decisions]

Why did you dump the other girl right when you met this one? Did you really lose attraction to her in a matter of days? Or did you just hope that it would work out with this one? See you are jumping to the end. You didn't know what was going to happen with this one so you didn't need to do that. If you really really feel that you can only date one person at a time then I guess. But people who approach relationships with anxiety are in need of multi-dating more than others. Otherwise all their relationship anxiety goes onto one person and it's too much. It's not even true excitement about that person; it's just a desire to get clarity and get deeper into the relationship.

 

I had the chance to multi-date. I remember at that time I was really considering it too, being it would be my first time multi-dating. To me I was already not feeling attracted to her and I didn't feel like I want to drag her along anymore. It just so happened that meeting this current one, triggered a reason for me to let her go. I just know that if I were to date both, I'd still be choosing the current one and focusing most of my time on her. I think I'll only date multiple women when I find attraction to multiple woman, but that rarely happens.

[Oregon_Dude]

No girl, or her actions, is worth this much analysis.

 

Someone either likes you, or they don't. You can usually tell which. This one doesn't anymore, and that's OK.

 

Just next her, OP. Sounds like she already nexted you, anyway. Start over with someone else, and don't try to be so perfect. Make mistakes. Be yourself. You ARE good enough.

[Versacehottie]

No I never talked to her on fb. I just happened to see her online and thought I'd reach out, so I said hey there, to which she replied Fb? did you lose my number? to which I said no, just saw you online and wanted to say whats up and proceed to say something that related to her. Then never got a response after that.

 

A lot of our conversations in the past revolved around her interest in a very distinct hobby (I don't want to give it away because you never know if she'll ever stumble upon this whole thread haha). And that's pretty much what I can build my conversations on.

 

I completely understand where you're coming from on why you asked me what are some values about her that has me so pinned on her, and you could be right that it's because I want to "win" her over. I just honestly want things to go back to where they were. I realized the mistakes I made and want another shot at it. I just hope she sees it that way. It's just hard for me to see if she really is asking for space or asking to leave her alone completely. If it's the former, I will respect that and make an effort to try things differently. I want to show her I can do it.

 

I really agree with what you said - "Now keep in mind you are not doing these things to get this particular girl. You are doing them because you really, really are now aware of your patterns and the need to make a change." and I'm going to stick to that.

 

To reiterate what you're saying at the end, I want to get this straight, is that she has enough ego that she knows that I'm in it still. So the best bet I can do is not contact and do my own thing. She may or may not reach back out depending on how she feels. Maybe I shouldn't have messaged her, if I'm trying to give her space. It's just a bit confusing on how I can show pacing and that I respect her space when the ball is in her court.

 

Ok, my opinion on the FB reaching out to talk to her. Wrong venue. You've never talked to her on there before and especially because you see her on line you reach out. It feels clingy. And sure that's how she viewed it. Feels a little stalkerish (sorry!). I'm just telling it like it is. If I told a guy I needed space, hadn't been in touch and first time as far as I know you see that me pop online you get in touch for no reason, I wouldn't feel respect for him. It's the least confident way to get in touch and seems to feel like you have been monitoring her which is at same time timid, clingy and unconfident. Also as an aside, people usually spend time on FB when they have nothing better to do, which is not the impression you need to be giving off at this moment. She needed to be wondering what you have going on and imagining that it was something fulfilling like a hobby you care a lot about, fun times with friends, other dates. That's why instead of kindly saying hi back she sounded hostile and asked if you lost her number. She would have preferred a phone call or text which is your normal way to communicate and sends a message of confidence and that everything is as it was.

 

So it's not great that she didn't continue the conversation. If being cheeky and humorous is part of your makeup, you could have texted her mid-FB thing and said is this better, in a flirty way? But the whole point is that you needed to have something to say, a reason to get in touch. Right now when you do it feels like you are just "waiting". Waiting for her to get over her space thing. Like checking in, you good yet? Was that enough time? Enough space? It basically resets the clock all over again on space she needs and turns her off to you. You are proving you cannot do what she talked to you about which proves to her that you are not a good match.

 

With the next girl or if she happens to get in touch after a while, don't always make it about her. Her hobbies, her interests. Then you are perceived as a doormat, not very interesting, not equally compelling, a bit of an empty shell. It's too much pressure and does not draw people to you. What do you like to do? Make sure you can talk and do insert these things into conversation from the first time. Like when you met her, you were traveling. That would have opened up a conversation about either work or travel for fun, whether it be family, friends or hobby, special event or travel itself on your end. It makes as if you build a connection with her but she does not build one with you because it is only based on how much you like her, her and the relationship itself. Boring. It makes it seem like you don't have much to offer (not saying that's true, just how it can be perceived).

 

Again, space and if she is over it look the same and feel the same and you don't need the answer from her if you are actually in giving her space mode. If she told you two weeks or a month, at the way you are now you would just be waiting it out and that is not the point. You should be living your life when someone dials it back especially and even if nothing is wrong, no matter what. I can feel your anxiety/impatience is on high. A sense of self is very important. You need to have the sense that you will be fine no matter what happens. The ball is firmly in her court. You shouldn't want a person back so you can fix your mistakes and/or be so fixated on your mistakes. You are putting her on a pedestal. I do think it is about you in terms of wanting to "win" otherwise fixing mistakes would not be high on reasons to want her back. Get comfortable with the fact that some things just don't work out. No big thing. Doesn't mean you are less of a person, even if there were some missteps on your end. There were definitely some on hers. (ps so she asked you to stay the entire weekend and then blamed you for it, you may just be dealing with a person who is self-centered, self-serving). I do think she may be over it altogether. She is being dismissive of you. That should be offensive to you--not making you want to jump back in with her. Sense of self, self-respect.

 

If you are not doing it for HER, you do not need to "show" her anything. Her case is particularly easy because what she focused in on in your patterns was the impatience and clinginess. You don't need her or another gf to work on that pattern; you can work on it TODAY and the next day and so on, so forth by learning how to fill the rest of your life and dial down this person's importance. You learn this by DOING IT. Does this makes sense?

 

My point about her ego is that if she is not over it altogether (though I think she might be) and you have moved on with your own life, at a certain point her ego will get the better of her and she will be wondering how can that be? She may get in touch because her ego cannot take it (this is not genuine interest--it's ego boost purposes). She SHOULD be wondering if you are in it still. There is no need to give her assurances. You don't let people mistreat you, banish you and then still let them know you are going to be around no matter what. She should be wondering if you are going to be around. YOU should be unfocusing on her, because that is how little she is offering now and shifting focus to other parts of your life and other girls. You should NOT be in waiting mode--that is someone who does not have other options, other interests and thinks so poorly of himself that he is willing to wait unconditionally for someone who is treating him badly. IF she gets back to you, you will consider what she has to say at that time; keeping in mind your life may be occupied with other things at that point. Lastly, the last part I bolded, is tough for you to understand, huh? You can show pacing and giving her space, letting the ball be in her court by letting it be there. It means allowing her to make the next move and be fine with it if it never comes. Pacing is matching hers. She is not answering you now, so it's a non-issue. But lets say two days from now she gets back to you with some nothing-ish message, you take around two days to reply with a nothing-ish message; you do not reply in 5 minutes with a date offer. See?

[difficult_decisions]

Ok, my opinion on the FB reaching out to talk to her. Wrong venue. You've never talked to her on there before and especially because you see her on line you reach out. It feels clingy. And sure that's how she viewed it. Feels a little stalkerish (sorry!). I'm just telling it like it is. If I told a guy I needed space, hadn't been in touch and first time as far as I know you see that me pop online you get in touch for no reason, I wouldn't feel respect for him. It's the least confident way to get in touch and seems to feel like you have been monitoring her which is at same time timid, clingy and unconfident. Also as an aside, people usually spend time on FB when they have nothing better to do, which is not the impression you need to be giving off at this moment. She needed to be wondering what you have going on and imagining that it was something fulfilling like a hobby you care a lot about, fun times with friends, other dates. That's why instead of kindly saying hi back she sounded hostile and asked if you lost her number. She would have preferred a phone call or text which is your normal way to communicate and sends a message of confidence and that everything is as it was.

 

So it's not great that she didn't continue the conversation. If being cheeky and humorous is part of your makeup, you could have texted her mid-FB thing and said is this better, in a flirty way? But the whole point is that you needed to have something to say, a reason to get in touch. Right now when you do it feels like you are just "waiting". Waiting for her to get over her space thing. Like checking in, you good yet? Was that enough time? Enough space? It basically resets the clock all over again on space she needs and turns her off to you. You are proving you cannot do what she talked to you about which proves to her that you are not a good match.

 

With the next girl or if she happens to get in touch after a while, don't always make it about her. Her hobbies, her interests. Then you are perceived as a doormat, not very interesting, not equally compelling, a bit of an empty shell. It's too much pressure and does not draw people to you. What do you like to do? Make sure you can talk and do insert these things into conversation from the first time. Like when you met her, you were traveling. That would have opened up a conversation about either work or travel for fun, whether it be family, friends or hobby, special event or travel itself on your end. It makes as if you build a connection with her but she does not build one with you because it is only based on how much you like her, her and the relationship itself. Boring. It makes it seem like you don't have much to offer (not saying that's true, just how it can be perceived).

 

Again, space and if she is over it look the same and feel the same and you don't need the answer from her if you are actually in giving her space mode. If she told you two weeks or a month, at the way you are now you would just be waiting it out and that is not the point. You should be living your life when someone dials it back especially and even if nothing is wrong, no matter what. I can feel your anxiety/impatience is on high. A sense of self is very important. You need to have the sense that you will be fine no matter what happens. The ball is firmly in her court. You shouldn't want a person back so you can fix your mistakes and/or be so fixated on your mistakes. You are putting her on a pedestal. I do think it is about you in terms of wanting to "win" otherwise fixing mistakes would not be high on reasons to want her back. Get comfortable with the fact that some things just don't work out. No big thing. Doesn't mean you are less of a person, even if there were some missteps on your end. There were definitely some on hers. (ps so she asked you to stay the entire weekend and then blamed you for it, you may just be dealing with a person who is self-centered, self-serving). I do think she may be over it altogether. She is being dismissive of you. That should be offensive to you--not making you want to jump back in with her. Sense of self, self-respect.

 

If you are not doing it for HER, you do not need to "show" her anything. Her case is particularly easy because what she focused in on in your patterns was the impatience and clinginess. You don't need her or another gf to work on that pattern; you can work on it TODAY and the next day and so on, so forth by learning how to fill the rest of your life and dial down this person's importance. You learn this by DOING IT. Does this makes sense?

 

My point about her ego is that if she is not over it altogether (though I think she might be) and you have moved on with your own life, at a certain point her ego will get the better of her and she will be wondering how can that be? She may get in touch because her ego cannot take it (this is not genuine interest--it's ego boost purposes). She SHOULD be wondering if you are in it still. There is no need to give her assurances. You don't let people mistreat you, banish you and then still let them know you are going to be around no matter what. She should be wondering if you are going to be around. YOU should be unfocusing on her, because that is how little she is offering now and shifting focus to other parts of your life and other girls. You should NOT be in waiting mode--that is someone who does not have other options, other interests and thinks so poorly of himself that he is willing to wait unconditionally for someone who is treating him badly. IF she gets back to you, you will consider what she has to say at that time; keeping in mind your life may be occupied with other things at that point. Lastly, the last part I bolded, is tough for you to understand, huh? You can show pacing and giving her space, letting the ball be in her court by letting it be there. It means allowing her to make the next move and be fine with it if it never comes. Pacing is matching hers. She is not answering you now, so it's a non-issue. But lets say two days from now she gets back to you with some nothing-ish message, you take around two days to reply with a nothing-ish message; you do not reply in 5 minutes with a date offer. See?

 

Yup. I think it's really time for me to just move on. I'm not expecting her to reach back out anymore. A mistake of a small fb message just saying hi, has caused anxiety and stress, which isn't worth it. I feel like everything I do next, whether it's to text her or reach back out, is going to be wrong. This whole situation is too sensitive. It's time I pull out too.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to write up so much and giving your thoughts on my situation. I agree with all your advice and will take it with me. Everything is a learning lesson, even if I have to learn it over and over. It only takes one time to get it right.

 

I just need to learn to pace things and know when things are appropriate or not and not come on too strong. At least I'm aware of what I did wrong with this current one, and it bugs me that I couldn't fix it. You'll never know, the next one could be for a whole different reason. Maybe I will be TOO appropriate or too distant in my pacing that she loses interest. It's all a numbers game and I need to keep testing out the combinations until I get it right, but one thing is for sure, I'll be coming to you for advice on my next one haha

[Versacehottie]

Yup. I think it's really time for me to just move on. I'm not expecting her to reach back out anymore. A mistake of a small fb message just saying hi, has caused anxiety and stress, which isn't worth it. I feel like everything I do next, whether it's to text her or reach back out, is going to be wrong. This whole situation is too sensitive. It's time I pull out too.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to write up so much and giving your thoughts on my situation. I agree with all your advice and will take it with me. Everything is a learning lesson, even if I have to learn it over and over. It only takes one time to get it right.

 

I just need to learn to pace things and know when things are appropriate or not and not come on too strong. At least I'm aware of what I did wrong with this current one, and it bugs me that I couldn't fix it. You'll never know, the next one could be for a whole different reason. Maybe I will be TOO appropriate or too distant in my pacing that she loses interest. It's all a numbers game and I need to keep testing out the combinations until I get it right, but one thing is for sure, I'll be coming to you for advice on my next one haha

 

yeah, the FB message is not the mistake that broke the camel's back. It was probably already broken so don't beat yourself up about just that. But do see it in context, it's a small example of how you do overdo it. So IT is not the reason things probably won't work out. If things were going well, it wouldn't make a difference. And you have to try to let go of "needing to do things perfect". You as you are will be good for the right person. Its not who you are. It's how you respond is where you are having a problem. You just need to keep it in perspective that's all and not get ahead of yourself in any way. You can't and shouldn't want to force it. Because you too are evaluating the other person every step of the way. And you do this because your self interest and self-respect is above all in how you see your life playing out. I think if you can truly understand this concept, you will be on your way.

 

Oregon dude said. No girl is worth all this trouble. You know why he had that mindset? Because he already thinks with this concept in mind. He is not onto the end goal when the means to get there are not worth it to him and there is mounting evidence that the end goal might not be what he was hoping for. Now I know part of what we were discussing was because she was a real life example where we could dissect what was going on--I think self-respecting people and those who are not so much would do this. But apart from us wanting to dissect it, I think what oregon dude was saying, which I would agree with, is that you should have been over her as well because there are some things that were off. Start measuring every person you meet against standards you have for what you would want in an ideal girlfriend. If they don't measure up, be willing to walk, since you know you will find something else. Don't look at this incident as a source of pain or that you failed or made mistakes, only that she did not measure up to what you want. Once you make that shift in your mind, I think you will do much better. And get a really full life in the meantime! That way a person would have to be pretty special to take your attention away from the other things you do.

 

ps I agree that you did the right thing about the girl you were dating when you met this one. Because the main reason was that you were losing attraction to her. So that's good. Someone wasn't measuring up and you cut it off. In the case of current girl, you just have to fine tune what it means for you to be attracted. In this case, keep it at the 4-6 dates stage and you are always still evaluating her behavior to see if she measures up. Don't let things slide or make allowances because you are in a rush to get more serious. Process not the end goal. Happy to help on the next one! Hopefully, I can make more sense next time. Bad couple of days of posting for me