norudder Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 As a supplement to Elaine's previous thread: For those who did/do want to be Mrs MM would you take him as is? A man who cheats? I think an important part of marriage is accepting someone flaws and all and not marrying with an idea of their potential which is an antitheses of an affair or relationship born of one. Unless you are ok with not asking the questions of why he cheated and why would he not cheat on you. Otherwise most ow want mm to be different and you are banking on that potential and not accepting him as is. Cheating is definitely a choice and manifestation of character/values. There are a few who are now with the fmm like got it, or got a chance to date after affair/divorce like miss bee, and I'd be curious what the differences were if any in his values or if that was discussed. For others I guess its just hypothetical. As is much surrounding these relationships.
lemondrop21 Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I am starting to doubt his ability to be different anyway. I think he has some very deep flaws that were expressed in other ways in his marriage earlier, and that were eventually expressed as an affair. It would take a LOT of work to get past those and I don't think he would actually put in the effort towards that. He'll do 6 weeks of therapy and then say he's "cured" of whatever it is. With issues going back to childhood it takes a lot longer than six weeks.
Author norudder Posted August 17, 2015 Author Posted August 17, 2015 I am starting to doubt his ability to be different anyway. I think he has some very deep flaws that were expressed in other ways in his marriage earlier, and that were eventually expressed as an affair. It would take a LOT of work to get past those and I don't think he would actually put in the effort towards that. He'll do 6 weeks of therapy and then say he's "cured" of whatever it is. With issues going back to childhood it takes a lot longer than six weeks. That's the catch 22 of it I guess. If they had what it took.... they would have what it takes. Until then they just don't. Part of me would respect mm more if he had confessed or said sorry but he needed to work on being a better H. instead he plays martyr man. He did half a dozen sessions in IC and stopped. Too much work I guess. Much easier to keep status quo and good guy image wondering why his wife wants a divorce. He doesn't seem to realize single women are going to wonder why she left a "good" guy.
HappyAgain2014 Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Thankfully, I didn't end up with xMM. That being said, I believe I would have gotten a broken man who would have become a shell of a human being after a divorce from cheating. I also would have gotten a man who viewed cheating as a means to avoid conflict and fill voids. No thanks.
still_an_Angel Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I don't think MM will be different if he got D, his circumstances might change but in essence, would his personality change in relation to his status? At any rate, I have accepted him as he is, this is all part of our A, I don't expect him to change as that will change our relationship as well. Like I said on Elaine's thread, I don't think I will want to live with MM like in a marriage type relationship even if he is free. I'd still want us to be together but live separately.
cocorico Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Do you think/hope MM would be different if he got D No. I hoped he would be the same. I did want him to come to understand why he became vulnerable to an A, and how he might have averted it, and I wanted him to "get" that his feelings, emotions, needs and responses were as valid as anyone else's, and that putting his needs on hold for everyone else all the time wasn't sustainable. But he learned that in IC, during the A - it was what helped him to leave. His values are just fine as they are. I have no need to remake him, and I have no fear that he will relapse into being how he was with her. Our R is completely different, and he is completely different with me to how he was with her - he is his authentic self with me, the person he has historically been with his family, his friends and colleagues - he is not the crushed she'll of a person he was with her. Sure, if I ever start treating him as she did, he might revert to that - but that would be fully on me, as I've seen what that does to him and to a marriage. 1
Got it Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 No. I hoped he would be the same. I did want him to come to understand why he became vulnerable to an A, and how he might have averted it, and I wanted him to "get" that his feelings, emotions, needs and responses were as valid as anyone else's, and that putting his needs on hold for everyone else all the time wasn't sustainable. But he learned that in IC, during the A - it was what helped him to leave. His values are just fine as they are. I have no need to remake him, and I have no fear that he will relapse into being how he was with her. Our R is completely different, and he is completely different with me to how he was with her - he is his authentic self with me, the person he has historically been with his family, his friends and colleagues - he is not the crushed she'll of a person he was with her. Sure, if I ever start treating him as she did, he might revert to that - but that would be fully on me, as I've seen what that does to him and to a marriage. My answer is a lot like Cocorico's. We also both did IC and CC to help us out and we are both happy with the make up of our relationship, what we want to get out of a relationship, and we are completely honest with each other in it. I didn't assume he or I would change into another person from the affair. We are who we are and evaluated from there looking at how he handle major issues and his communication style. 2
truncated Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I'm not an ow, so this is just an observation in general. Just as an ow can't make a mm cheat, neither can the spouse. they cheat because of something in themselves. They also act the way they do because of something in themselves, and gravitate towards certain personality types because of something in themselves. This is true in any relationship, not just affairs. If someone has personality issues, a couple pf sessions of counseling aren't going to be a quick fix. It can take a long time to unlearn behavior patterns and coping strategies, and for some who are "personality disordered", it can even take years of therapy to get to a place where they are healthy. Think of it this way. you can have 100 people in a similar type of relationship who are unhappy. Some will cheat, some will stay and complain to whoever will listen, and some will leave. Why do the ones who cheat make that choice? It's not the situation that "makes" them cheat, it's their choice to do so. in my humble opinion, it's the ones who are willing to admit that they are responsible for the choice they made and who don't blame their spouse who stand the best chance of never doing it again. The ones who blame their spouse for their actions, the "she made me do it, and if it weren't for her, I never would have done it" crowd could very easily cheat again. After all, they see it as something that was beyond their control. 1
daisygirl19 Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 No. I hoped he would be the same. I did want him to come to understand why he became vulnerable to an A, and how he might have averted it, and I wanted him to "get" that his feelings, emotions, needs and responses were as valid as anyone else's, and that putting his needs on hold for everyone else all the time wasn't sustainable. But he learned that in IC, during the A - it was what helped him to leave. His values are just fine as they are. I have no need to remake him, and I have no fear that he will relapse into being how he was with her. Our R is completely different, and he is completely different with me to how he was with her - he is his authentic self with me, the person he has historically been with his family, his friends and colleagues - he is not the crushed she'll of a person he was with her. Sure, if I ever start treating him as she did, he might revert to that - but that would be fully on me, as I've seen what that does to him and to a marriage. Ditto this... 1
kjohn Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I have no fear that he will relapse into being how he was with her. Our R is completely different, and he is completely different with me to how he was with her - he is his authentic self with me, the person he has historically been with his family, his friends and colleagues - he is not the crushed she'll of a person he was with her. Sure, if I ever start treating him as she did, he might revert to that - but that would be fully on me, as I've seen what that does to him and to a marriage. You have absolutely no way to know that, other than what he tells you about how his wife treated him. Of course his story is going to be that his wife was/is horrible. How else would he justify his actions of having an affair? How else would he get you to feel sorry for him? How else would he manipulate the situation so that you believe he had no choice but to cheat with you....a real woman who makes him feel like a man, whereas his wife makes him feel like a worthless piece of crap. This is coming from the betrayed spouse and I have no doubt that my exH told his wife all these things about me when they were having an affair. Trust me when I tell you that none of it is true. We had a very loving, trusting relationship for a very long time. We were best friends. Did we argue sometimes? Of course we did. All couples do, but if he thought I was a miserable, horrible person who made him feel like crap he sure did a great job of hiding that when he was at home with me. Don't be so naive as to believe everything he tells you. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors. 1
cocorico Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 You have absolutely no way to know that, other than what he tells you about how his wife treated him. Wrong. Easy assumption, but 100% wrong. He wasn't my source at all. This is coming from the betrayed spouse Clearly.
cocorico Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I'm not an ow, so this is just an observation in general. Just as an ow can't make a mm cheat, neither can the spouse. they cheat because of something in themselves. They also act the way they do because of something in themselves, and gravitate towards certain personality types because of something in themselves. This is true in any relationship, not just affairs. If someone has personality issues, a couple pf sessions of counseling aren't going to be a quick fix. It can take a long time to unlearn behavior patterns and coping strategies, and for some who are "personality disordered", it can even take years of therapy to get to a place where they are healthy. Think of it this way. you can have 100 people in a similar type of relationship who are unhappy. Some will cheat, some will stay and complain to whoever will listen, and some will leave. Why do the ones who cheat make that choice? It's not the situation that "makes" them cheat, it's their choice to do so. in my humble opinion, it's the ones who are willing to admit that they are responsible for the choice they made and who don't blame their spouse who stand the best chance of never doing it again. The ones who blame their spouse for their actions, the "she made me do it, and if it weren't for her, I never would have done it" crowd could very easily cheat again. After all, they see it as something that was beyond their control. Yeah. All those Andes air crash victims were really closet cannibals, just waiting for the right circumstances to allow them to act on their fantasies... No one *ever* acts out of character, no matter how extreme the circumstances they're subjected to, huh?
Got it Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 You have absolutely no way to know that, other than what he tells you about how his wife treated him. Of course his story is going to be that his wife was/is horrible. How else would he justify his actions of having an affair? How else would he get you to feel sorry for him? How else would he manipulate the situation so that you believe he had no choice but to cheat with you....a real woman who makes him feel like a man, whereas his wife makes him feel like a worthless piece of crap. This is coming from the betrayed spouse and I have no doubt that my exH told his wife all these things about me when they were having an affair. Trust me when I tell you that none of it is true. We had a very loving, trusting relationship for a very long time. We were best friends. Did we argue sometimes? Of course we did. All couples do, but if he thought I was a miserable, horrible person who made him feel like crap he sure did a great job of hiding that when he was at home with me. Don't be so naive as to believe everything he tells you. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Kjohn, with all due respect your situation is not necessarily every situation. So while your husband may have lied that does not mean every person in an affair lies about the dynamics of their marriage, feelings towards/on it, accountability, etc. While it seems hard for many to believe, I was completely honest with my AP. I was not with my ex husband. That was the dynamic of our relationship/marriage borne about at a very early age. But that was not necessarily something I cared through into other relationships/marriages. So as a cheating spouse, speaking for myself, part of the benefit of the affair was being able to be 100% brutally honest. Like Cocorico, there are some things I know, both positive and negative, that I know to be factual. 1
Recommended Posts