Do most OWs have the expectation that one day they will be Mrs MM?

August 16, 2015

Prompted by the thread title "MM doesn't believe in divorce"

I thought wow, he is not even considering leaving his wife, he has closed that door, and that started me thinking.

Is that why they stay in sometimes what seems to me very unhappy relationships with a MM?

If a MM said straight off that divorce was out of the question would most not even consider a relationship with him, or would the opportunity to change his mind mean he was still worth having a relationship with?

Is the thought of eventually replacing his wife, high on the agenda in the minds of the OW?

Or are most OWs, although they may have a moan and a rant sometimes, in reality pretty happy to play second fiddle, pretty happy he goes back to his wife?

August 16, 2015

If mine would tell me straight that he will never ever divorce, i d be out of the picture 100%.

And yes, i would like to be with him but not to replace his wife.

August 16, 2015

I think the majority of men in affairs do a lot of "future faking," attempting to lead OW into believing that marriage/commitment is high on their priority list. Just little things standing in the way...LIKE A WIFE who doesn't want a divorce. My ex MM and many ex MM I've read about here are experts at playing victim of their circumstances and plead with the OW for patience as they try and figure out "their way out of hell" (all the while living in a satisfactory marriage with an unsuspecting wife).

There are a few OW who get into affairs knowingly, and know they will be nothing more than an OW...I think these women are generally married themselves and looking for the same thing MM is.

August 16, 2015

If mine would tell me straight that he will never ever divorce, i d be out of the picture 100%.
And yes, i would like to be with him but not to replace his wife.

Oh Dela

I didn't realise you were right back in it.

But he told you he doesn't want the kids to come from a broken home like he did right? Isn't this much the same without spelling it out for you?

August 16, 2015

I sure did for several years. He told me he loved me and wanted to be with me, BUT [enter typical excuse]. The excuse that got to me the most was the kids. They are grown and living their own lives, and are not even the children of his wife. And she didn't even treat them well. But, because he and their mother divorced, he wants them to see what a committed marriage is and that he has to consider others, not just himself. To add fuel to the fire, his son is expecting a baby out of wedlock and his daughter just got engaged and is living with her fiancé. That commitment thing again. I finally just accepted my role and that I will never be enough. Truth is, he hates conflict and he will never initiate a divorce because of that.

August 16, 2015

While I didn't make the leap to "Mrs. MM", I did have a clearly laid out and detailed expectations with him about what was expected during the affair and that it was based on both of us leaving our marriage (as that was where we both were at prior to the affair). That while timelines were different there was a common understanding on progression as well as day to day interactions.

So, yes, if he wasn't planning to leave it would have probably been a fling at most but would never had expected to get into a relationship with him. It was only based on where he was and about him particularly that allowed me to see it as a viable option.

We did rehash things a few times to make sure we were both on the same page and to compromise where needed/accepted on both sides.

In fact, the relationship expectations was recapped in writing so both parties knew what we agreed to and there was no possibility of either of us saying "I didn't know". I wanted clear understanding.

But I never felt like second fiddle and expected him to jump through hoops to give me the same luxuries of any other relationship. I was not going to concede limited interactions, time together, etc. just because he was still married. That wasn't my problem so something I didn't need to give on. My expectations were mine, I was flexible in some areas but I wasn't going to give full latitude. If he couldn't meet said requirements that was his right and we would have ended things then.

My biggest compromise was dating a married man. I wasn't going to concede much more than that.

August 16, 2015

i believe most OWs do love their MM & at least on some level... at least dream about what would it be like to have a life together - out in the open.

you have those OWs who are really in it just for the fun and awesome sex, no strings attached kind of relationship - but these days, that kind of relationship is easy to get from any random other single dude so when you involve yourself in a mess that is an A...? chances are, your heart is probably wishing for something a little more.

and then you have those OWs who have families of their own, their own obligation and their own life they really don't want to leave - those OWs, i think... are satisfied to leave the entire situation as it is. you got the best of both worlds & keep it going.

-- i noticed one thing... well, not really noticed... it's more what i see around me - those MMs who did leave the wife eventually, were those who straight up told their OW that they aren't going anywhere in the very beginning. the A did start as something simple and easy and no strings attached... eventually love was there and they actually did leave for the OW.

those who promised EVERYTHING in the very beginning to the OW? even had plans and timelines and everything...? those are the types who are always "yeah, i swear NOW i'll do it" and when it's time to take the final step...? they can't do it.

a lot of relationships & marriages that last until this day that i know started out with the MM very clearly saying he isn't ever leaving. so there is that.

Edited August 16, 2015 by minimariah

August 16, 2015

Not at all, but it was nice to fantasize about. Being his wife.

August 16, 2015

That is a very good observation, indeed it is.

The recent attempt the MM wanted to leave wife again a few months ago, despite I was like a broken record, keeping saying "don't do it", "only do it when you mentally prepare the afterwards pressure from children and family members"...etc, he was still on the edge and wanting to end it with wife soon. At the end somehow I was short of words, I used his conversation @ year 2012 that we had at the beginning of A, and said to him why you wanted to leave marriage and you said you did not plan to at that time....

But naturally we have got deeper and deeper over the years.

So many OWs complaint that i.e. why MMs did not leave marriage/wife, but my perspectives, even after MM leaves wife, do those OWs or MMs have strong and solid mentality how to handle the afterward stress, re-arrangement of life, $$ ...etc everything. I do not see those OWs here have those attributes. Life is not made of empty words love...etc etc, it requires strong team work from both MM and OW, to execute step by step in very solid way, not just some broken basket people messing around and then people will live happily after.

i believe most OWs do love their MM & at least on some level... at least dream about what would it be like to have a life together - out in the open.

you have those OWs who are really in it just for the fun and awesome sex, no strings attached kind of relationship - but these days, that kind of relationship is easy to get from any random other single dude so when you involve yourself in a mess that is an A...? chances are, your heart is probably wishing for something a little more.

and then you have those OWs who have families of their own, their own obligation and their own life they really don't want to leave - those OWs, i think... are satisfied to leave the entire situation as it is. you got the best of both worlds & keep it going.

-- i noticed one thing... well, not really noticed... it's more what i see around me - those MMs who did leave the wife eventually, were those who straight up told their OW that they aren't going anywhere in the very beginning. the A did start as something simple and easy and no strings attached... eventually love was there and they actually did leave for the OW.

those who promised EVERYTHING in the very beginning to the OW? even had plans and timelines and everything...? those are the types who are always "yeah, i swear NOW i'll do it" and when it's time to take the final step...? they can't do it.

a lot of relationships & marriages that last until this day that i know started out with the MM very clearly saying he isn't ever leaving. so there is that.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Mount

August 16, 2015

I don't ever want to marry again, ever. I was married 27 years. Been there done that. I don't want to be Mrs. MM, I also don't want Mrs. MM to be Mrs. MM--therein lies the dilemma as she doesn't want to be divorced. Not because she loves him, because Divorce is a failure. And failure is not an option. But I've digressed from the topic. Carry on....

August 16, 2015

-- i noticed one thing... well, not really noticed... it's more what i see around me - those MMs who did leave the wife eventually, were those who straight up told their OW that they aren't going anywhere in the very beginning. the A did start as something simple and easy and no strings attached... eventually love was there and they actually did leave for the OW.

those who promised EVERYTHING in the very beginning to the OW? even had plans and timelines and everything...? those are the types who are always "yeah, i swear NOW i'll do it" and when it's time to take the final step...? they can't do it.

a lot of relationships & marriages that last until this day that i know started out with the MM very clearly saying he isn't ever leaving. so there is that.

OK, that IS very interesting. Is that because the MM who says he is never leaving is a bit of a more honest and upfront individual or perhaps more grounded, than those who essentially waffle their way into the relationship with promises and airy-fairy plans?

August 16, 2015

i believe most OWs do love their MM & at least on some level... at least dream about what would it be like to have a life together - out in the open.

-- i noticed one thing... well, not really noticed... it's more what i see around me - those MMs who did leave the wife eventually, were those who straight up told their OW that they aren't going anywhere in the very beginning. the A did start as something simple and easy and no strings attached... eventually love was there and they actually did leave for the OW.

And that s why i trust mine. He din t blah blah me "oh please stay with me i will get a D". He actually talks to me about the what ifs but he never lied about that just to keep me around. He told me he is scared about everything, things i ve seen people here talk about-kids, friends, stability, family, his individuality that is in the marriage, where will he live, how would he see the kids as much as possible etc

And no i m not back in the A. We just talk.

Edited August 16, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

August 16, 2015

OK, that IS very interesting. Is that because the MM who says he is never leaving is a bit of a more honest and upfront individual or perhaps more grounded, than those who essentially waffle their way into the relationship with promises and airy-fairy plans?

probably.

that's just my experience though - sometimes "i'm never leaving" really means that the MM isn't leaving. & vice versa.

but like i said - i really know lots of As that started out as "this is just for sex, because i'm lacking this or that at home but i'll always be with my wife and family" - the beginning of the A was kind of... how do i say this... realistic? no future faking, no fantasy... people knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. and as the A progressed - the feelings became stronger and eventually the MM decided to walk away from the marriage. i'd say folks like that are more grounded and realistic and aren't expecting anything earthshattering... aren't really mystifying the A. those who were full of promises at the VERY beginning...? in my experience are leaving a lot less. they also usually have really big plans, big promises, big future... & nothing ever comes out of it. so it's like HIGH flying (planning) but low landing. something like that.

August 16, 2015

My xMM never told me he was leaving his W. He definitely acted like he WANTED to be convinced, which is something I never wanted to do. That sounds like a lot of work, and quite frankly, a gamble I was unwilling to take.

August 16, 2015

that's just my experience though - sometimes "i'm never leaving" really means that the MM isn't leaving. & vice versa.

Yes, I can understand that too.

"I am never leaving because this is just something extra on the side for me,"

or

"I am definitely leaving because I am desperate to go and I need a reason, and an exit affair is as good as any other reason."

August 16, 2015

Make sense. Or let us put it in another way, using analogy, a grand result is not built from no-where, it is being built upon layers of small foundation, in this case, it is MM's EACH promise turning to true result everytime.

I never understood how OWs here can expect MMs will give them or turn empty words into a solid grand result - a.k.a leaving wife/marriage for them (OWs), despite in their relationship with MMs, MM hardly keeps small promise each time.

I think OW needs to reflect that, whether MM follows his promise, including small things and big things, whether they are being executed each time. That is clear reality check rather than jumping onto the topic "why MM cannot leave wife....etc".

probably.

that's just my experience though - sometimes "i'm never leaving" really means that the MM isn't leaving. & vice versa.

but like i said - i really know lots of As that started out as "this is just for sex, because i'm lacking this or that at home but i'll always be with my wife and family" - the beginning of the A was kind of... how do i say this... realistic? no future faking, no fantasy... people knew what they were doing and why they were doing it. and as the A progressed - the feelings became stronger and eventually the MM decided to walk away from the marriage. i'd say folks like that are more grounded and realistic and aren't expecting anything earthshattering... aren't really mystifying the A. those who were full of promises at the VERY beginning...? in my experience are leaving a lot less. they also usually have really big plans, big promises, big future... & nothing ever comes out of it. so it's like HIGH flying (planning) but low landing. something like that.

August 16, 2015

Make sense. Or let us put it in another way, using analogy, a grand result is not built from no-where, it is being built upon layers of small foundation, in this case, it is MM's EACH promise turning to true result everytime.

I never understood how OWs here can expect MMs will give them or turn empty words into a solid grand result - a.k.a leaving wife/marriage for them (OWs), despite in their relationship with MMs, MM hardly keeps small promise each time.

I think OW needs to reflect that, whether MM follows his promise, including small things and big things, whether they are being executed each time. That is clear reality check rather than jumping onto the topic "why MM cannot leave wife....etc".

Good point.

If he cannot keep the promise to visit you on your birthday, or the promise to take you to the park on Saturday, then he is unlikely to fulfil the big promise to leave his wife for you.

August 16, 2015

Exactly, in my case, not to mention his voluntary actions to bring surprise without I knowing, the MM fulfilled each promise/request (from my end) into reality, small tiny things like bring milk (too heavy for me), or my fav breakfast (that not convenient for me to get), up to big promise, such as Birthday gift I want (5 digits high-end jewelry, i.e Tiffany, Cartier, DY..etc), the cost of renovation of my residence (5-6 digits pay in full)...etc. Each time.

Good point.
If he cannot keep the promise to visit you on your birthday, or the promise to take you to the park on Saturday, then he is unlikely to fulfil the big promise to leave his wife for you.

August 16, 2015

When my affair started, I didn't want to marry anyone so he was safe because he was already married. Completely twisted thinking in so many ways. I was looking for an escape. I was in crisis at the time.

I had no idea how much further I would compromise myself before it was all over. I say this having had a xMM who treated me well and kept his word .... Until he didn't.

I wanted to marry him. He consumed my thoughts and I ached being away from him. All of that despite being very independent and rational. It turned me into another person that I didn't recognize. I was split in two.

Affairs thrive on codependency. You don't have to be a codependent person before but they will turn you into one.

August 16, 2015

Make sense. Or let us put it in another way, using analogy, a grand result is not built from no-where, it is being built upon layers of small foundation, in this case, it is MM's EACH promise turning to true result everytime.

absolutely.

it's all in the details - details will tell you everything, the small things. if a person is delivering in details, they will probably deliver in the big things too.

i think honesty based on reality is a WIN in the A. when the MM is not only honest but when that honesty is actually supported by reality. many MMs are honest when they tell you that they want o leave or love you but their true feelings aren't supported with the reality... meaning, with their actions and the way they behave in REAL world... outside of an A.

August 16, 2015

Interesting thread, elaine.

August 16, 2015

-- i noticed one thing... well, not really noticed... it's more what i see around me - those MMs who did leave the wife eventually, were those who straight up told their OW that they aren't going anywhere in the very beginning.

Funny you should say that. H told me he was never planning to leave and when he and OW had discussed it he had told her the same. Simply wasn't on the cards - he was quite shocked and upset when I assumed on dday that he was. But he did say later, when I asked him what he thought would have happened if I hadn't found out, that our marriage would simply gradually wither away. I think he was right. Not because he loved OW so much, but because he was focussing so much of his energy on her and their relationship, rather than on me and our relationship. Then I would have ended it because infidelity or not, I don't want a lack lustre marriage and that is what it would have become.

August 16, 2015

-- i noticed one thing... well, not really noticed... it's more what i see around me - those MMs who did leave the wife eventually, were those who straight up told their OW that they aren't going anywhere in the very beginning. the A did start as something simple and easy and no strings attached... eventually love was there and they actually did leave for the OW.

those who promised EVERYTHING in the very beginning to the OW? even had plans and timelines and everything...? those are the types who are always "yeah, i swear NOW i'll do it" and when it's time to take the final step...? they can't do it.

Not in every case. We would, then, not have moved forward to divorce and marriage based on your analysis above. I know of a few others like mine, others that waffled that left and then others who never said anything about leaving and just left one day.

August 16, 2015

Not in every case.

of course - i didn't mean to generalize at all. just kind of an interesting pattern i see around me.

many different marriages & many different affairs are out there... i guess i wanted to say that MMs can change their view on M & A as the time goes on and can indeed leave, no matter what they say in the beginning. things and feelings change, just like in every relationship.

August 16, 2015

Nope, never

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Do most OWs have the expectation that one day they will be Mrs MM?

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