I was asked "why do this if you're going to push her away"

[autumnnight]

This is all great DKT, but do you feel that remaining "here" with the continual diet of relationship dysfunction will speed your healing? Don't get me wrong, you have every right to be here. But does this stuff here ever cause to trigger and then affect your attitude towards Lovin'?

 

Please do not underestimate the toll that the forum can have on your progress.

 

Again, best wishes to you both!

 

DKT, you do not want to end up like some people...bitter, jaded, stalking and harassing internet strangers, tilting at windmills....you are better than that. I know a few people who proclaim themselves "recovered" and yet still their lives revolve around infidelty and ridding the world of all people they deem as evil whatever it takes. These are not healthy people. You are.

 

Do you really want to wake up and find yourself with a bad tan and an external hard drive full of people's personal information?

 

You and lovin got this

[road]

Road, its her question to answer. To the best of my knowledge the answer is no.

 

 

No it is your question to answer.

 

 

Your decision to believe or not believe her answer.

 

 

You have not stated that you doubt her answer. So you accept it as the truth. Then that truth is a solid foundation to recover your marriage on.

 

 

I think you know everything there is know about the affair.

 

 

You constantly talking about the affair at this point is detrimental for it keeps those memories alive and fresh in your mind.

 

 

Thus it is time to stop talking about the affair with your WW and us.

 

 

Wounds never heal when the scab keeps getting picked at.

[road]

Yes and no, at one point I did not believe I had the right to ask him to be faithful. In many ways I did not expect him to go down that route, yet I figured if I took away the taboo nature of cheating then it would lose its appeal.

 

If im being honest, it was some manipulation that backfired. Would he had done it without be being me saying it was fine? I dont think so.....

 

 

 

 

I appreciate your effort to answer. Though I asked how does the BS being allowed to have a ONS provide fair compensation for the WS having a 2 year affair.

[autumnnight]

Not sure I follow. Maybe I'm unclear on where the "here" is. This forum, or remaining in the M?

 

I mean I see countless men who are happy to stay married to their FWW's, keep boinking their FWW's, etc....but they come on forums and proclaim over and over how they resent them, wish they weren't married to them, see them as tainted, won't even ever buy them an effing Valentine card again, etc.

 

That isn't recovery or healthy.

 

DKT actually having the spine and fortitude to take a look at what moving forward really means is impressive.

[road]

I did not date anyone.

 

What is your point anyways? Not being rude, just asking.

 

 

To see if you have been doing what you had to do. For your BH to see the same.

[truncated]

OP,

This is just my opinion, but if I were in your shoes, and if I felt that getting remarried is what is the right thing to do for both of you, I would do the following.

 

First, I would get off of internet forums. They have served their purpose for the two of you. It's now time to move out of the "recovering form affair" head space that they keep you in.

 

Second, keep seeing you therapist. Not so much because you are dealing with the affair, but because you are getting remarried, and learning new ways of being together.

 

Third, book one of those "destination weddings" somewhere that you have always wanted to travel. Bring along your kids, and keep it to just your nuclear family. If you have any reminders of your "old" life, bring them along, and include their destruction as part of the ceremony.

 

I know that sounds weird, but a couple I know who had been through something similar to you did that. They had a few emails left from the affair, which they put in a small paper bag labeled "our old life". They got remarried at dusk on the beach, and just before the ceremony, they sealed the bag shut, put a flame to it, and launched it out onto the waves. They watched it float away, burning as it went, until it was gone.

 

Both told me that felt extremely good, and the symbolism of them leaving that part of their life behind actually helped them to finally let it go, once and for all.

 

They had their wedding, enjoyed their vacation with their kids, and when they got home, they had a big party at their home for all their friends and family who had supported them through all their troubles.

 

Moving on can be really hard, but if you are both ready, it can be a wonderful start to a great life together.

[road]

OP,

This is just my opinion, but if I were in your shoes, and if I felt that getting remarried is what is the right thing to do for both of you, I would do the following.

 

First, I would get off of internet forums. They have served their purpose for the two of you. It's now time to move out of the "recovering form affair" head space that they keep you in.

 

Second, keep seeing you therapist. Not so much because you are dealing with the affair, but because you are getting remarried, and learning new ways of being together.

 

Third, book one of those "destination weddings" somewhere that you have always wanted to travel. Bring along your kids, and keep it to just your nuclear family. If you have any reminders of your "old" life, bring them along, and include their destruction as part of the ceremony.

 

I know that sounds weird, but a couple I know who had been through something similar to you did that. They had a few emails left from the affair, which they put in a small paper bag labeled "our old life". They got remarried at dusk on the beach, and just before the ceremony, they sealed the bag shut, put a flame to it, and launched it out onto the waves. They watched it float away, burning as it went, until it was gone.

 

Both told me that felt extremely good, and the symbolism of them leaving that part of their life behind actually helped them to finally let it go, once and for all.

 

They had their wedding, enjoyed their vacation with their kids, and when they got home, they had a big party at their home for all their friends and family who had supported them through all their troubles.

 

Moving on can be really hard, but if you are both ready, it can be a wonderful start to a great life together.

 

 

Great minds think alike.

[Sub]

I mean I see countless men who are happy to stay married to their FWW's, keep boinking their FWW's, etc....but they come on forums and proclaim over and over how they resent them, wish they weren't married to them, see them as tainted, won't even ever buy them an effing Valentine card again, etc.

 

Ah, ok. I'm sure there are a lot of them, yes. Maybe I'm just being dismissive of their presence on these boards or something, though. I've found it more common that BH's who've stayed and tried to move forward in a positive way catch more heat from guys who didn't stay married their "tainted" WW's.

[DKT3]

Coming here helps me for several reasons that kinda go beyond infidelity. To help others tends to help me. Ex, when I was a Jr in high school I coached a pee-wee football team 7-8 year olds. During those 8 weeks I learned more about football then I ever had to that point.

 

I know at some point I will have to get away from here, I take breaks from here now because sometimes it can bring you down seeing how naive people can be.

 

truncated lovin is a wedding planner she has big plans and I'm not stepping in front of that train. Whatever she wants....I would be cool going to the courthouse.

 

autumnnight I think the problem with BH (myself included) is we don't know how to release the anger in a healthy manner. See grow up men are never encouraged to express emotions. So when it comes to emotions, more importantly emotions from being hurt by women, its like we were raised by wolves or we are like feral children.

 

I think we mostly put on the macho hat and drive right through this sh*t either by quickly divorcing or getting back to normal. Either way that anger and hurt is still there. That's what you see it some BH's here, men who simply don't know how to let go of the hurt, anger and shame of being cheated on, we weren't trained for that.

[Sub]

See grow up men are never encouraged to express emotions.

 

Well, we are. It's just that those emotions usually have to do with showing how strong we are (angry "grrrrr" sound) or some other dominant alpha-male bulls**t. I recently told a female friend of ours that after we married, I added my wife's last name. (Just as she added mine.) This friend was astonished and told me that I needed to "know my place as a man." She chilled after I explained why I did it. But I guess part of putting the macho hat on is the marking of territory. As if a W/SO is your property, and any relinquishing of yourself to them as an individual is a sign of weakness. But it's not that black and white.

[sandylee1]

OP,

 

 

First, I would get off of internet forums. They have served their purpose for the two of you.

 

Some of these forums are quite addictive and I find them enlightening. The ability to discuss a problem or vent to independent strangers can be helpful. Gives you another perspective.

 

There are some very supportive members on forums who help others and it's unfair if a member feels 'forced out'.

[LivingWaterPlease]

It is not being swept under anything. He has been tarred and feathered. He has given me his reasons for allowing things to get carried away, I disagree with them, but they are valid to him.

Thank you for your support.

 

Thanks so much for your kind response, Lovin. I see that my original post has been removed so I'm going to bow out of this thread now as I'm not sure as to what is acceptable on this thread and what is not.

 

You, DKT3 and your children were in my prayers today that God will pour love on your home and give you and DKT3 strength and wisdom to continue on your journeys wherever they may lead you.

 

Wishing you all the best !

[DKT3]

This forum has sparked some real deep conversations in our home when sharing others stories, conversations that I'm not sure we would have had otherwise. There have also been some great ideas that have been suggested here, books and so on. The best part is the unbiased opinions, it can really be eye opening to find that your view on something is jacked up.

 

But there is still so much more going on around here then cheating and lying. I will likely cut back my time in these sections..

Edited August 17, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Tangentially topical content retained

[sandylee1]

As a mother, I would ALWAYS have my child's best interest at heart. So for your mom to say what she did..........believe that she's got a heap of faith in Lovin.

 

There's no love like a mother's love. And when I say that my brothers say 'Yeh Yeh Yeh. ...there's no love like a father's love either'.☺

 

We humans want the person who's wronged us to pay the price, show they love and pretty much go to the end of earth and back. It puts us in the driving seat and gives us some say, that we didn't have before.This is an absolute natural reaction.

 

I remember years ago getting back with a BF who cheated. I would get him to do stuff I never would have asked before.....because now I felt like he owed me. I felt like kinda like..okay you cheated, but you're the one who wants me back now. I felt in full control and for a while it felt good.

[Zenstudent]

DKT, I don't know why nobody has mentioned this.

 

We're both years out, so I believe I recognize the thoughts you're struggling with.

 

Almost all posters says not to wallow in the past, wallow in pain, punish Lovin etc.

 

Have you considered that you may just be protecting yourself in the present? Maybe you hold back a little, avoid being vulnerable like before - preparing for the next time you may find a knife in your back? It's a potential risk and much more real to those who have experienced it.

 

This is not to pick on lovin, because she has absolutely done the work IMO, lightyears ahead of my own wife - just something to consider. Wishing you both the best.

[DKT3]

No it is your question to answer.

 

 

Your decision to believe or not believe her answer.

 

 

You have not stated that you doubt her answer. So you accept it as the truth. Then that truth is a solid foundation to recover your marriage on.

 

 

I think you know everything there is know about the affair.

 

 

You constantly talking about the affair at this point is detrimental for it keeps those memories alive and fresh in your mind.

 

 

Thus it is time to stop talking about the affair with your WW and us.

 

 

Wounds never heal when the scab keeps getting picked at.

 

 

Honestly road, I could care less if she had dated. I can't divorce her and then expect her to not date.

 

That's just it, how do you move on past an affair if there is tons of anger on oneside and guilt and self loathing on the other? That is what we are on the road towards.

[DKT3]

Is the power balancing out now that you've stated you forgave her?

haha, it amazes me that people thing of lovin as some meek powerless woman. If you only knew

What about how you hurt her? Are your actions repairing that damage you've caused to her?I'm working on it, not there but making progress

 

This Union looks like one power play/struggle after another. When does that stop?

there is some truth to this. We are two alpha's and we have had some battles in the past. Over time you settle in and know what buttons not to push.

How can you participate so it looks balanced - and not a struggle?

 

When does the ego start healing? When do you set your ego aside and just be real?ego would have kept me moving on without her

 

And you mentioned an authentic relationship that you believe you now have - can you describe what that looks like now and how it's different than before?

not have, working towards

 

DKT - are you willing to participate moving forward with Lovin' - in a manner that doesn't cause her more harm?of course, if not I wouldn't be with her.

 

Answers in the quote.

[DKT3]

DKT, you do not want to end up like some people...bitter, jaded, stalking and harassing internet strangers, tilting at windmills....you are better than that. I know a few people who proclaim themselves "recovered" and yet still their lives revolve around infidelty and ridding the world of all people they deem as evil whatever it takes. These are not healthy people. You are.

 

Do you really want to wake up and find yourself with a bad tan and an external hard drive full of people's personal information?

 

You and lovin got this

 

I had to admit that I was still angry in order to fix it. I think we has BS's tend to embrace the anger. For some reason I had a hard time with that, it was almost like it made me less of a strong man, IDK??

[World's.Edge]

Yes and no, at one point I did not believe I had the right to ask him to be faithful. In many ways I did not expect him to go down that route, yet I figured if I took away the taboo nature of cheating then it would lose its appeal.

If im being honest, it was some manipulation that backfired. Would he had done it without be being me saying it was fine? I dont think so.....

Wow:(.......

[DKT3]

DKT, I don't know why nobody has mentioned this.

 

We're both years out, so I believe I recognize the thoughts you're struggling with.

 

Almost all posters says not to wallow in the past, wallow in pain, punish Lovin etc.

 

Have you considered that you may just be protecting yourself in the present? Maybe you hold back a little, avoid being vulnerable like before - preparing for the next time you may find a knife in your back? It's a potential risk and much more real to those who have experienced it.

 

This is not to pick on lovin, because she has absolutely done the work IMO, lightyears ahead of my own wife - just something to consider. Wishing you both the best.

 

You know, I oddly have no fear that she would repeat cheating. Call me stupid, but I just don't think she would ever do it again. That doesn't mean I would/will blindly ignore the signs like I did before.

[DKT3]

Can you explain why you skipped that particular counseling session?

 

You stated it was cowardly of you; but it may be useful to fully understand what your idea of coward looks like. Also what you thought you were avoiding by not attending.

 

This info may be helpful in knowing what your fears are or what they look like. Or even what you're attempting to avoid.

 

The therapist stripped me down, I felt like a turtle on my shell. I felt exposed and vulnerable. I felt like a coward because I ran from the issue by not going.

 

It was during the days that followed that I had an epiphany, and was forced to accept that I was angry, I wasn't as advanced as I thought.

[road]

Honestly road, I could care less if she had dated. I can't divorce her and then expect her to not date.

 

That's just it, how do you move on past an affair if there is tons of anger on oneside and guilt and self loathing on the other? That is what we are on the road towards.

 

 

Your response unfortunately shows that you did not understand the post that you quoted. And that is ok.

[DKT3]

Your response unfortunately shows that you did not understand the post that you quoted. And that is ok.

 

What you asked wasn't profound, and I understood. Believing her when she said she didn't date doesn't give us a foundation to build on. It just meant she didn't date, and had she dated it wouldn't change anything.

[autumnnight]

You know, I oddly have no fear that she would repeat cheating. Call me stupid, but I just don't think she would ever do it again. That doesn't mean I would/will blindly ignore the signs like I did before.

 

This is very healthy thinking. Honestly, if a BS is going to choose to live waiting for another shoe to drop, they need to D. After a certain number of years, the self-protection thing just doesn't fly if you're actually trying to heal.

[Sassy Girl]

This is very healthy thinking. Honestly, if a BS is going to choose to live waiting for another shoe to drop, they need to D. After a certain number of years, the self-protection thing just doesn't fly if you're actually trying to heal.

 

Agree with this.

 

I'm having a hard time reconciling that you've only just woken up to your anger.

 

2.5 years into "recovery" and you both agreed that having a ONS would be ok?

 

I get why Lovin did it - I think in part it was a test, the other part a manifestation of her shame perhaps.

 

But DKT - after spending 2 years on this board, knowing everything you do about healing from infidelity and reconciliation, how did you get to a point where you believed that it would be OK for your relationship to pursue someone outside of it? Or was this just a manifestation of your anger? You're both intelligent people. What went on here?