Did I mis speak?

[dragonwalker]

So I've been seeing this girl for just over a month. We have gone out about 6-7 times and we've had a pretty good time. Today I helped her move to her new place and it just so happens that I was near my grandfather's place and he needed help with something so we stopped by. I introduced her to my grandfather as my girlfriend.

 

 

When we were moving everything into the new apartment. The agent that was helping us was asked some questions and he asked our relationship to each other saying "are the two of you friends, boyfriend/girlfriend.." Again I said she was my girlfriend.

 

 

I didn't think much of it and I helped her move in, we had dinner and at the end of the night she mentioned that she felt disrespected earlier in the day when I mentioned to other that I was her girlfriend. She said that she never discussed the fact that our relationship was defined as a boyfriend/girlfriend and that it was improper of me to state that we were any more than friends but that we were dating. To be fair we haven't been intimate and the most intimate thing we've shared is a kiss on the cheek but that's a whole other thread.

 

 

What I was explaining my relationship to others that day I was just trying to use the most appropriate term I could think of and didn't give it much thought. I apologized and explained my intent and agreed to stick with friend until such time we had a discussion about this.

 

 

However, in retrospect I was thinking about this and wanted to get people's opinions on this. Do most people have this discussion with their partners about the specific definition of their relationship or does it happen more organically?

 

 

Did I mis speak or should I have held my ground on what I said?

[guest569]

I dont think you said anything wrong. Not every couple has to have an official conversation to define their "titles", to me hearing that it was "improper" just sounds a bit silly. But i would probably suss out what she wants out of the "friendship" if i wanted a relationship and the guy referred to me as his girlfriend i would be pretty chuffed.

[TheFinalWord]

So I've been seeing this girl for just over a month. We have gone out about 6-7 times and we've had a pretty good time. Today I helped her move to her new place and it just so happens that I was near my grandfather's place and he needed help with something so we stopped by. I introduced her to my grandfather as my girlfriend.

 

 

When we were moving everything into the new apartment. The agent that was helping us was asked some questions and he asked our relationship to each other saying "are the two of you friends, boyfriend/girlfriend.." Again I said she was my girlfriend.

 

 

I didn't think much of it and I helped her move in, we had dinner and at the end of the night she mentioned that she felt disrespected earlier in the day when I mentioned to other that I was her girlfriend. She said that she never discussed the fact that our relationship was defined as a boyfriend/girlfriend and that it was improper of me to state that we were any more than friends but that we were dating. To be fair we haven't been intimate and the most intimate thing we've shared is a kiss on the cheek but that's a whole other thread.

 

 

What I was explaining my relationship to others that day I was just trying to use the most appropriate term I could think of and didn't give it much thought. I apologized and explained my intent and agreed to stick with friend until such time we had a discussion about this.

 

 

However, in retrospect I was thinking about this and wanted to get people's opinions on this. Do most people have this discussion with their partners about the specific definition of their relationship or does it happen more organically?

 

 

Did I mis speak or should I have held my ground on what I said?

 

Wow bro. You're moving her house and she's not your gf, but that is not disrespectful. Don't recommend manservant role to a woman you are only dating. Next week you can fix her sink for a peck on the cheek. Only dates at this point, no favors, errands, maleservant status.

[dragonwalker]

I should preface all of this by saying that the girl in question did arrive about a year ago from China so this may be just a cultural thing but I'd still like to know people's thoughts generally speaking.

[TheFinalWord]

I should preface all of this by saying that the girl in question did arrive about a year ago from China so this may be just a cultural thing but I'd still like to know people's thoughts generally speaking.

 

Let her bring up bf/gf thing. In the mean time don't do bf/gf things (e.g. moving houses, fixing her toilet, etc. those are boyfriend roles). If only dating, then only take on dates.

[candie13]

I think it's a matter of how you feel about it. MAybe to her, the "bf" title is a big thing. Maybe to you it's more simple, natural and casual.

 

I think titles mean nothing. Several things are important - does your rs resist in time, are you spending quality time together? and then... how physical are you - is there a good sound chemistry or not? Are you attracted to eachother? Is sex good? Are you exclusive just yt?

 

In all honesty, focus on your interaction, titles will only follow. Now, if you see her as you gf and she sees you as a "friend", then there's a problem.

 

The only other issue is the moving house thing. I might recommend a good relocation company to my "date", but I will go and give a hand to my bf with the actual move... understand what I mean?

 

Make sure you do not overinvest. I am keeping "dating" more superficial. I do other stuff with my bf. Careful there.

[dragonwalker]

Ok, I get what both of you are saying about doing things beyond the typical scope of dating if we are both not on par with a relationship status of boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

 

About the helping her to move, it was on my suggestion that we do this together as there was only 1 room of a few items to move and I wanted to do something for her and I thought this would be a convenient way to spend some time with her.

[TheFinalWord]

Ok, I get what both of you are saying about doing things beyond the typical scope of dating if we are both not on par with a relationship status of boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

 

About the helping her to move, it was on my suggestion that we do this together as there was only 1 room of a few items to move and I wanted to do something for her and I thought this would be a convenient way to spend some time with her.

 

If you are only dating, keep it to dates. Do not recommend bf benefits (moving, etc.) unless you are her bf. If you volunteer, yes, she will take it. But don't volunteer anymore. Dates only IMHO.

[guest569]

Are you "just friends" then? 7 dates and just friends.

[Lois_Griffin]

You, kind sir, are in the friend zone.

 

You've been on 6 or 7 dates over the course of a month and all you've gotten is a kiss on the cheek? I show my UPS man more affection.

 

She said it herself. She sees you as a friend.

 

I'd be backing WAY off if I were you.

[Gaeta]

She is one inconsiderate B if you ask me.

 

You went out of your way to help her move into her new apartment and she calls you disrespectful !!. Who cares what you told the agent, he's just a F-in agent!!!! It's not like you introduced yourself to her parents as her boyfriend.

 

After 7 dates if it embarrassed her you called yourself her bf to a pure stranger than she is not that into you AND is keeping you at arm's length to get favors out of you like helping her to move.

[Versacehottie]

Yeah annoying girl. She has a lot of nerve making you move her. I don't care if it was 3 suitcases, 1 room or her entire apartment and then calling you disrespectful. She should stop being so uptight. I'm not an expert on Chinese culture but don't think she needs to get bent out of shape. She could just say it's a little early to start telling other people that; I'm not sure yet. Not get upset and feel disrespected! That tells me she is using you and it's never going to go there. It's the classic story of when you find out some guy considers you his girlfriend and you find out because he introduces you that way to someone. Though you haven't discussed it formally. It's usually too soon for one party or the other but the difference is that it's a surprise of good information in most stories you hear like this. In your story, she's upset. That's weird after 6-7 dates, no matter the culture. If she likes you, she should be happy you said something like that, even if she still plans to keep it going slow and refrain from telling more people until you decide. If she doesn't like you, she will be offended as she is. Ugh. Sorry, man.

[GemmaUK]

How old are you both?

 

Where you say you've had a 'pretty good time' does that mean:

Pretty good time!! :

Or

'Pretty' good time...as in a 'fairly' good time. Wanna elaborate?

 

Let me know and I'll elaborate. on where my thoughts are heading.

 

For the record I think helping her move was a kind thing to do.

I often help folk out with things like that and I would offer help to a guy I had dated 6/7 times too.

[LoveRefreshed]

I would just drop her like a bad habit. When she gets all emotional and calls you (she will, no doubt), tell her that you don't want a friend. You want a girl friend. Tell her that if she wants something else, she can go find someone else.

 

She's more disrespectful to you in this situation. This is one of the biggest reasons for bitter men (and it's your own fault!). You let her do this to you, but regardless, she knows what you wants, doesn't want it, but uses it for her benefit. This is classic manipulation.

[Versacehottie]

She's more disrespectful to you in this situation.

 

I agree with LoveRefreshed, ESPECIALLY about this part. She had a lot of nerve saying you were disrespectful when she was actually more disrespectful.

 

She sounds like drama and will always be nagging you if you are with her. I can't see a big problem with telling your grandpa that she is your gf. Who does he know that she knows? Probably no one. If she cared and was compassionate, she could at least found out why you may have worded it that way to grandpa. Maybe grandpa is desperate for you to have a gf, maybe you want him off your back, maybe he's sick and doesn't have much time and you are just trying to make an old man happy. Jeez, instead of using it as an opportunity to get to know you better or make a connection with you, she used it to berate you.

 

I can understand a little more about the landlord. Maybe she doesn't want him/her all in her business, especially if there are rules about occupancy as apartments often have. I don't remember if you say what country you are in but if she just moved to your country she wouldn't necessarily be aware of an occupancy rule. I hope you stand your ground with her. Not insisting to be called boyfriend/girlfriend but not apologizing all over yourself. There is no reason to. It's an unfortunate difference of opinion and actually her reaction reflects badly on her and her character. Not your action reflecting badly on you--probably too forward under the circumstances, considering you have only kissed on cheek. I think she is using you as a placeholder because she is new to country and needs protection and help. Users bug me. If I were you, I would dump or use extreme caution if you decide to proceed. She will suck you in for long haul of disappointment.

[dragonwalker]

How old are you both?

 

Where you say you've had a 'pretty good time' does that mean:

Pretty good time!! :

Or

'Pretty' good time...as in a 'fairly' good time. Wanna elaborate?

 

Let me know and I'll elaborate. on where my thoughts are heading.

 

For the record I think helping her move was a kind thing to do.

I often help folk out with things like that and I would offer help to a guy I had dated 6/7 times too.

 

Most of my other recent posts are about my dates with her. In summary I would say that the dates that I said were all pretty good are more like a fairly good time. We went to different places on each date and we had fun but honestly our interactions between each other were more like friendly and again the physical intimacy element is missing there. I think this is not from lack of trying on my part. For instance, after our second date I tried to kiss on the lips but she rejected that and said on the cheek only.

 

 

There was a an opportunity weeks later where she was sore from dancing and I offered to give her a massage. She rejected this passively by not replying to the text. Although it was late at night and this was only after knowing her a few weeks.

 

 

She had this weird thing early on when I first met her when she didn't want me to walk her to the door (this is detailed in my other posts) because she didn't want her room mates in her business.

 

 

I know this sounds corny but we texted a bit about this situation and she asked that I hold her hands next time we were out so in essence our most intimate moment was really when we were coming back from a eventful date and we walked and talked at night holding hands. I really felt an emotional intimacy there because it felt like we were growing closer faster than at any other moment before. Whereas the kiss on the cheak came off more of like a cutsie thing with a bit of awkwardness.

 

 

On top of this I am very inexperienced dating wise, being 27 and essentially never really been dating before (reasons in previous posts) but I know that there is nothing overtly wrong with me.

 

 

I know that I'm further than I have ever been which is nowhere really, so I know that psychologically I'm trying to hold onto that. Fortunately I am also a healthy skeptic so I'm trying to consider the realities of the situation.

 

 

From her perspective I gather she has not had much dating experience either. I believe only having had 2 boyfriends but neither was particularly long, one being long distance and her bf cheated on her and a much more recent one ending in February of this year for reasons I'm a bit unclear on. I don't believe she has had that much more dating experience either.

 

 

I don't get the feeling that I'm being used. The helping her move situation was on my suggestion when she in fact was leaning toward an alternative. Yes I have paid for the majority of things but that was because I wanted to do it for her but I think she is genuine about contributing in that regard. Besides, she comes from a wealthy family in China where her parents paid for her Master's education here at an expensive private school, bought her a new car, paying her rent, and paying her expenses without any need for her or work at all. In fact I helped her move into a city called Brentwood in LA which is a really nice neighborhood into a place that's like $2,000 for a 1b/1b. I can't see her using me because her English is pretty decent and she has friends. She is clearly privileged but not spoiled. She has a grace and certain humbleness I find uncommon from someone of her background. So I felt a bit like she was speaking from the heart and not from some higher rule when she talked about that bf/gf name issue.

 

 

After my explanation do you people think I'm being naïve? Am I letting my emotions take the better part of my nature?

[Gaeta]

Besides, she comes from a wealthy family in China where her parents paid for her Master's education here at an expensive private school, bought her a new car, paying her rent, and paying her expenses without any need for her or work at all. In fact I helped her move into a city called Brentwood in LA which is a really nice neighborhood into a place that's like $2,000 for a 1b/1b. I can't see her using me because her English is pretty decent and she has friends. She is clearly privileged but not spoiled. She has a grace and certain humbleness I find uncommon from someone of her background. So I felt a bit like she was speaking from the heart and not from some higher rule when she talked about that bf/gf name issue.

 

Are you familiar with Chinese culture? Her parents have high expectations for her, and probably not for her to marry someone of a lower social status. It's a culture that put a lot of emphasis on wealth and assets. In Chinese culture a woman has to marry before 27 or she is considered left over.

 

I strongly suggest you inform yourself on what you're getting into.

[guest569]

After my explanation do you people think I'm being naïve? Am I letting my emotions take the better part of my nature?

 

I dont know, it depends if you are happy to keep going along not quite knowing where you stand. For me, I would be pretty chuffed if a man that i like called me a girlfriend after 7 dates. Cultural stereotypes aside, I think her reaction was a bit odd and I would not be giving my heart to this one until she takes a few steps toward you.

[GemmaUK]

Hi Dragonwalker,

 

My gut instinct when I first saw your thread was that this was cultural.

 

I was friends with a Cantonese girl all through school and up until we were about 23 when we lost contact. Her family moved to the UK when she was 2 years old.

I knew her family really well and somehow I fitted in with the levels of behaviour and respect that was required - even from age 5!

I personally think that respect was the prime thing she had been taught from a very young age and she was a fantastic teacher of it. I remember her telling me what was OK and was was not OK and also the difference between what I could do around her family but would be frowned upon if she did the same.

She had three older sisters and one older brother and she was not ever allowed (and will never be allowed) to call them by their names. She had to call them 'First Sister, Second Sister, Third Sister and Brother.

I actually struggled with this as it would be disrespectful of me to use the same terms so I very quickly had to learn their names.

She never ever dated until she went to university when she met a guy who he was with for 3 years. He was English and white and she never once told her family about him as she knew they would disown her.

Her brother dated white girls but all of the sisters were supposed to date same race.

My friend's eldest sister did get disowned as she married an Iranian. My friend was a lot younger than this sister and she never saw her again after the age of 12.

 

I've now read through your other threads and found some info for you.

Essentially you are a foreigner even though you are also Chinese, plus she hasn't been in the country for very long so her mindset is based upon her background.

 

I found this:

Dating Etiquette and Sexual Relationships in China

In the section titled 'Sex as a fast track to the altar' this paragraph stuck out to me:

'A sure-fire way to confirm that the girl is quite serious about you is if you learn that she has spoken to her mother about you. As a rule, girls will not discuss any man they are seeing (not even with their girlfriends) unless they have decided that this is the person they want to be with. Related, if the girl invites you to meet her family, this is symbolically equivalent to a formal announcement of engagement in the West. It would be best not to agree to meet her family unless you have marriage in mind.'

 

If you bear the above in mind then for her saying 'girlfriend' absolutely would be over stepping a boundary of respect. Albeit one you just didn't know about.

It doesn't sound to me like she blew up over it to me either, it sounded like she thought rationally, waited until the and of the evening and then communicated in the most respectful way she knew how to.

hat you can gather from it is that if asked you can say 'We are dating' or '*insert name* is my date'.

 

I also found some videos and one that totally explains why she would not want you to walk to her door - again - it's cultural and ingrained.

Holding hands is a big step for her btw - I have learned that from just watching a few videos.

This video helps explain it all somewhat:

what is dating like for a chinese girl - Bing Videos

 

I would suggest doing some research yourself on what dating is like for a Chinese girl.

[introverted1]

1. 7 dates
   
2. you help her move
   
3. no intimacy of any kind, not even a real kiss
   
4. you can't refer to her as your gf
   

 

Even if we excuse #4 as a cultural issue, 1+2 should = at least some passionate kissing at this point and, if they don't, then I think you should be framing this as a friendship and not treat her any differently than you would any other friend.

[Versacehottie]

Good research and info GemmaUK. And good points. I guess we can't underestimate the cultural aspect. I take it though that she has been here for a few years with her studies and still not convinced that she isn't using him as that happens often when people are in a foreign country. They need support and they will take it from a guy who is interested in them romantically when that is not what they really are after.

 

OP, as far as saying using, I mean overall. Less about the move although that would be more fuel for the fire. You're not friends; you think you've been dating (maybe you are too optimistic about it after reading your more lengthy post). Question is what does she think you guys are doing? If someone has romantic interest and the other person is aware but not interested like that--to keep having him/her around and lead them on as if you were dating in order to get what they need, support, alleviate loneliness is using. I hope that's not what's happening here and that it is 100% cultural or just plain moving too fast and that you can repair it with her.

[LostOnes05]

Bro, pull all the way back on this one. Date other women...since she is not your girlfriend. If she wants to go out again, let her arrange things. I've learned from bad experiences that when a woman puts in no effort, they have little to lose. Even if it were cultural, at what point would she consider you both to be in a relationship? Next time she asks for your help moving something, suggest a moving company.

[GemmaUK]

Good research and info GemmaUK. And good points. I guess we can't underestimate the cultural aspect. I take it though that she has been here for a few years with her studies and still not convinced that she isn't using him as that happens often when people are in a foreign country. They need support and they will take it from a guy who is interested in them romantically when that is not what they really are after.

 

OP, as far as saying using, I mean overall. Less about the move although that would be more fuel for the fire. You're not friends; you think you've been dating (maybe you are too optimistic about it after reading your more lengthy post). Question is what does she think you guys are doing? If someone has romantic interest and the other person is aware but not interested like that--to keep having him/her around and lead them on as if you were dating in order to get what they need, support, alleviate loneliness is using. I hope that's not what's happening here and that it is 100% cultural or just plain moving too fast and that you can repair it with her.

 

 

She has only been in the country for nine months.

[dragonwalker]

She has only been in the country for nine months.

 

 

@Gemma, that's interesting research you did there. Yes you're right from reading my posts she hasn't been here long closer to 1 year at this point. Your story is pretty interesting about the Chinese friend. I actually know that level of strictness and adherence to cultural traditions is a bit unusual in this day and age.

 

 

To give you a bit more insight into her background. Her parents have been separated since she was in middle school and only now working on getting officially divorced so she's had a bit of an atypical upbringing and she did date even in high school where she met her first bf who I know she introduced to her mother but things didn't work out because he left for school in the US and cheated on her.

 

 

What makes her experiences here even more interesting is what I'm going to say next. I don't want this to be taken the wrong way but for those reading please understand that what I'm about to share are some biases shared by some Chinese from China. I mentioned she dated another guy before me that she met in the US. Through some investigative facebook research I found out this guy is American, 38 and her "mentor" in school. He was also black. Nothing wrong with black or 38 but highly unusual given what I know of how many Chinese might view this.

 

 

Now it made sense when she was talking about him and I felt some information was being withheld because she was talking about her friends and room mates being gossipy and she not liking this I didn't quite understand until I did my own research. She says that they were bf/gf and she even traveled with him to his home across the country in Detroit and met his family. I estimate they were together for no longer than 4-5 months.

 

 

The point I'm trying to make is that some of the things she eludes to and her background suggests we are having cultural issues or she adheres to tradition but her recent experiences hint to a much more liberal attitude which leaves me wondering if I'm being treated the way I am because of cultural differences or that she just isn't that in to me.

 

 

I know when we were having our discussion about the bf/gf issue I asked her how long she would need to make a decision on our relationship status, she wasn't able to reply with an answer. Although we were on the same page that we were dating. Oh what drama.

[TheFinalWord]

@Gemma, that's interesting research you did there. Yes you're right from reading my posts she hasn't been here long closer to 1 year at this point. Your story is pretty interesting about the Chinese friend. I actually know that level of strictness and adherence to cultural traditions is a bit unusual in this day and age.

 

 

To give you a bit more insight into her background. Her parents have been separated since she was in middle school and only now working on getting officially divorced so she's had a bit of an atypical upbringing and she did date even in high school where she met her first bf who I know she introduced to her mother but things didn't work out because he left for school in the US and cheated on her.

 

 

What makes her experiences here even more interesting is what I'm going to say next. I don't want this to be taken the wrong way but for those reading please understand that what I'm about to share are some biases shared by some Chinese from China. I mentioned she dated another guy before me that she met in the US. Through some investigative facebook research I found out this guy is American, 38 and her "mentor" in school. He was also black. Nothing wrong with black or 38 but highly unusual given what I know of how many Chinese might view this.

 

 

Now it made sense when she was talking about him and I felt some information was being withheld because she was talking about her friends and room mates being gossipy and she not liking this I didn't quite understand until I did my own research. She says that they were bf/gf and she even traveled with him to his home across the country in Detroit and met his family. I estimate they were together for no longer than 4-5 months.

 

 

The point I'm trying to make is that some of the things she eludes to and her background suggests we are having cultural issues or she adheres to tradition but her recent experiences hint to a much more liberal attitude which leaves me wondering if I'm being treated the way I am because of cultural differences or that she just isn't that in to me.

 

 

I know when we were having our discussion about the bf/gf issue I asked her how long she would need to make a decision on our relationship status, she wasn't able to reply with an answer. Although we were on the same page that we were dating. Oh what drama.

 

You are doing a lot of things wrong (don't worry about her; we only have your side of the story).

 

1) You are being creepy digging so much into her background. You are concocting a story about her and this other guy with about 10% data. Who care anyway. She may not be over him or she may have rushed that relationship and learned she wants to go slow from now on. Don't take it personally and don't create a story as it doesn't do anything to change the situation.

 

2) You are trying to pin her down on a title of bf/gf. She doesn't know and your pushing it will only push her away. Let her bring it up.

 

The best course of action is to stop trying to compare yourself to this other guy, don't pressure her, and stop trying to be a whiteknight doing her errands and fixing her appliances, etc. Don't worry about her culture or trying to use it as leverage. She is in America now. Just have fun and if isn't serious don't pigeon hole yourself to where you cannot date other women.