Who pays for the rent if we get a divorce?

[meadow5]

I am planning on divorcing my husband. Just a brief summary of our finances because I really need some advice. We have been married for 3 years. My husband has quite a bit of money saved in the bank, in his name only. He lost his job in 2011.

 

Shortly after he lost his job, he asked me to marry him. We were living in his town home together just shortly after we got married but due to his lack of employment we had to sell it and move in with his parents. I have continued to work throughout this whole process. I have not been unemployed since the age of 19 and I am now 40.

 

We lived with his parents for 2 years, up until about 2 monhts ago when we were able to rent a place since I got a better job that pays more. Again, he has plenty of money in the bank to where we didn't have to live with his parents at all. He could have taken money out to pay for the townhome or to rent a cheaper place. Instead, we lived with his parents, which was very stressful for me.

 

During this time, he was offered three jobs in his field. He would start each one, and one to two days later, says how much he hates it, and qould then quit. Knowing full well that if he worked we would be able to move forward and improve our lives. It happened again this week. Only now, we have rent and expenses to pay since we are no longer living with his parents. He got a job offer on Monday. Took the job and has been miserable all week, saying its too far to drive, even though its about 40 minutes from where we live.

 

I have been telling him, nicely, that he has to keep at it, and how important it is to keep this job, especially now that we are trying to save some money and we have expenses. Yesterday he acted as if he hated me. Left in the morning without saying goodbye and did not speak to me all day. Finally, in the evening I asked him that this needs to be resolved and he said that he hates the job and that I have no faith in him to do the right thing. He has already quit this job, even though he didn't say so. But I do not know where the anger is coming from. He is acting as if he hates me, and I am pretty certain that he is in fact going to quit this too.

 

My question is this. If I do divorce him, because I cannot live my life as a rollercoaster anymore, who is responsible for paying the remainder of the rent We signed a year lease and we have about 10 more months to go. I have about $2000 in the bank, he has about $240,000. Again, this is only in his name, not mine. I was thinking he can pay for the rest of the rent and stay if he wants, I don't care. I just do not want to pay. Thoughts?

Edited August 8, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Art_Critic]

if any of that 240k was gained while being married then that part is half yours

 

you need to seek and retain an attorney

[salparadise]

if any of that 240k was gained while being married then that part is half yours

 

But, she says that they've been married 3 years and he hasn't been gainfully employed in 4 years (2011). So if he earned it prior to 2012, or inherited it (regardless of when) then you won't be able to touch it.

 

If both of your names are on the lease, then you're both responsible for the rent. If he agrees to pay it in a separation agreement then he will be responsible to you, but you will still be responsible to the landlord. And both of you are fully responsible, not just for your half. If he agrees to pay under the terms of separation but defaults, then the lessor may come after you (and/or him) for the full amount. This is what the term "jointly and severally" means. I'm sure it's in the lease.

 

The lessor could go after his $240k unless it's in a retirement account, but you cannot (if the above assumptions are correct).

[Art_Critic]

But, she says that they've been married 3 years and he hasn't been gainfully employed in 4 years (2011). So if he earned it prior to 2012, or inherited it (regardless of when) then you won't be able to touch it.

 

True, that is why I said gained during the marriage.. if he had it before it shouldn't be hers or if he inherited it and her state doesn't consider it marital property then it is his and she has no right to it.

 

Although with that kind of money it will be hard for a judge to be kind to him when he asks for stuff like alimony, and he sounds like the kind of guy that will do that.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

Both, you signed a contract. Kinda sucks you married someone who is irresponsible with money & can sponge of his parents. Not good qualities. I'd bite your tongue, save as much as possible & hide it in a safe deposit box that you have a family member rent, but you have to be there to access. Pull small sums out of your savings until it's down to a few hundred & keep it there. Your money is only safe in an account that's not in your name. Ride out the reminder of the lease with him paying the majority. Divorce him after the lease is up. Don't tell him or others about stashing funds away.

[elaine567]

Have you told him you are divorcing him?

If not, then best to speak to an attorney and know your rights before you do anything you may regret later.

Get your ducks in a row.

[carhill]

Sorry about your circumstances....

 

From my perspective as a landlord, relevant to my jurisdiction:

 

My rental agreements read that tenants are 'jointly and severally' liable to pay rent. This means that all tenants who are a signed party to the lease are wholly and singly responsible for payment of rent. If rent is 1K and one party of two pays 500, both parties are still liable for the other 500, regardless of their personal circumstances. If one party moves out, they're still liable for all of the rent not received.

 

However, tenants can, of course, request the landlord renegotiate the lease and/or release one or more tenants from the lease. Anything is possible. What it takes is a meeting of the minds.

 

In my state, money earned or property owned prior to marriage and maintained separately (not co-mingled) during marriage is considered separate property and not subject to community property laws.

 

My advice? Talk with your landlord about the lease and don't interject him/her into your divorce. We aren't interested in people's personal problems, rather that they take care of the properties we rent them and pay their rent on time. Work it from a business perspective and perhaps things can work out to satisfy all parties.

[meadow5]

All of the money he has in the bank he made before we got married. Would a good lawyer be able to settle something for us? Would I have to pay him allimony even though he has more money than I do?

[carhill]

If he's employable, these days, I seriously doubt any competent judge would award spousal support. If he were disabled and unable to work and disability didn't afford him a basic existence, then maybe.

 

He can certainly petition the court for spousal support. All that takes is a motion. What occurs after is either what you all agree to or what the judge orders.

 

I'd suggest getting a lawyer who works solely for you.

[meadow5]

I am looking into finding a good lawyer this week. My husband is totally capable and both physically and mentally able to work. He is a healthy, 41 year old man with a graduate degree who has been offered 4 separate jobs in the last 3 years and has quit every single one within a few days. His reasons: He doesn't like the job, its too far away, its too emotionally taxing, etc. The excuses go on and on. Meantime, I have been working non stop this whole time. He has made no effort to work, not even part time.

[carhill]

I'd suggest an outlet, like posting here, for venting the emotional content so the divorce interactions can remain more businesslike. Generally, things will proceed more smoothly and be less costly if the parties work to a mutually agreeable end rather than tossing rocks at each other.

 

In our case, MC helped prepare me for that aspect. Best lesson? Take things one day at a time. Make one success each day, no matter how small, the positive memory of that day. Our D took about a year and a half and we had two businesses at stake plus the usual and sundry 'stuff'. One day at a time helped me a lot and we both benefited by not enriching the lawyers too much. Life goes on.

 

This of course presumes things are irreconcilable. Only yourself and your H can determine that part.

[Mr. Lucky]

Lot's of missing details. The OP hasn't said they both signed the lease. Nor has she indicated any discussion she's had with her husband, who may in fact want the apartment.

 

meadow5, can you elaborate?

 

Mr. Lucky

[carhill]

The OP wrote:

We signed a year lease and we have about 10 more months to go.

 

That's what I relied upon for my advice, along with 'Who pays the rent.....', indicating that both parties are a signatory to the lease.

 

Certainly, if one party wishes to leave and one wishes to stay, the landlord can qualify the other and either re-write a new lease or add an addendum to the existing lease deleting the departing tenant with the understanding that the security deposit would remain in effect and any relief on that aspect would be between tenants. Generally, I qualify signatory tenants separately, in that their credit score and income and references stand alone, even if they are part of a couple or multiple tenant lease, aligning with 'jointly and severally'.

 

Depending on jurisdiction and whether this is a subsidized unit or rent controlled, there may be other laws and procedures applicable.

[Mr. Lucky]

Generally, I qualify signatory tenants separately, in that their credit score and income and references stand alone, even if they are part of a couple or multiple tenant lease, aligning with 'jointly and severally'.

 

Would that tend to eliminate from consideration someone who's been unemployed the last 4 years ? Though I guess he could choose to pay the entire rent in advance.

 

You're right, I missed the "we"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[carhill]

Yes, that would disqualify such a tenant from any of my properties (all SFH's) but evidently not the case here. Re-reading, my supposition is that they are renting an apartment of some sort. They were in a townhome, sold it then moved to his parents, then into this place.

 

Then the OP goes on to write:

"I was thinking he can pay for the rest of the rent and stay if he wants, I don't care. I just do not want to pay."

 

I presume she means the remaining ten months.

 

OP, one option to float past the landlord, that being releasing you from the lease with you bearing the costs of re-renting the unit. Marketing, paperwork, etc.

 

Another option would be converting to month-to-month at a higher rent. Never know, the landlord might leave it the same rent level. There's some logistics with that with multiple tenants but it is possible.

[meadow5]

Some of you are wondering if we both signed the lease. We have both signed. Even though my husband in unemployed, we both have very high credit scores and I have a lucrative career. Maybe the landlord overlooked his unemployment? I am just afraid that if in fact the divorce goes through, my husband will say he isn't paying the rent because he is not working, even though he has much more in the bank than I do. Thankfully, we do not have children and we do not own property together. So, it could be a lot worse I guess. I have been very unhappy in my marriage with my husband, and I feel it would be a slap in the face if on top of that, I had to pay the rent so he can live there or that I have to pay him allimony because he is unemployed and I'm not. Hopefully, it all goes well.

Edited August 9, 2015 by meadow5

[PegNosePete]

It very much depends of the details of the rental contract.

 

If it were a mortgage then you'd be "jointly and severally" responsible for paying, which many people wrongly assume means they are responsible for paying half each. It actually means you're both responsible for paying the whole thing, and the bank can chase either one of you for the whole amount (at their choosing). Usually in practice this means the person who remains living in the property will be chased for the outstanding amount.

 

If you are jointly and severally responsible for the rent then you may be able to get away with paying nothing. Also it's common-sense logic that since your husband is enjoying sole occupation of the property, he should be paying 100% of the rent. In essence you are sub-letting your half of the property to him.

 

If you contract says you're both to pay half each then you might have to pay half.

 

And if he can't afford to pay his half due to his unemployment then he may be able to get spousal support from you to cover it. It very much depends on the facts and figures.

 

But this kind of thing very much depends on the small print and the laws in your state. If I were you I'd see a lawyer sooner rather than later. Many do a free initial consultation so you can simply make appointments with a few, to get a lot of good advice for free. If you like one and feel you need to retain them, then you can, or you can simply take the free half hour. Another bonus: any lawyer who gives you a free consultation won't be able to advise your husband due to conflict of interest laws.

[Arieswoman]

Meadow5,

I think the information you need is outside the scope of posters here.

 

Please speak to a solicitor/attorney as to what your rights are in this situation.

 

Good luck.

[veggirl]

It very much depends of the details of the rental contract.

 

If it were a mortgage then you'd be "jointly and severally" responsible for paying, which many people wrongly assume means they are responsible for paying half each. It actually means you're both responsible for paying the whole thing, and the bank can chase either one of you for the whole amount (at their choosing). Usually in practice this means the person who remains living in the property will be chased for the outstanding amount.

 

If you are jointly and severally responsible for the rent then you may be able to get away with paying nothing. Also it's common-sense logic that since your husband is enjoying sole occupation of the property, he should be paying 100% of the rent. In essence you are sub-letting your half of the property to him.

 

If you contract says you're both to pay half each then you might have to pay half.

 

And if he can't afford to pay his half due to his unemployment then he may be able to get spousal support from you to cover it. It very much depends on the facts and figures.

 

But this kind of thing very much depends on the small print and the laws in your state. If I were you I'd see a lawyer sooner rather than later. Many do a free initial consultation so you can simply make appointments with a few, to get a lot of good advice for free. If you like one and feel you need to retain them, then you can, or you can simply take the free half hour. Another bonus: any lawyer who gives you a free consultation won't be able to advise your husband due to conflict of interest laws.

 

Not sure about this, the landlord going after only who lives in the unit. I work in property management and if only half the rent is paid, that entire lease/unit is going into eviction and it will be in all parties names. We don't have time to deal with "X is living there, Y isn't" and chase people that way. We go by the signed lease, ALL parties.

 

OP you could see if your landlord will do a "roommate release" situation and put the lease in only your husbands name. He will have to agree to this and qualify on his own. If he's willing to show the 240k over multiple months of bank statements, he would qualify on his own in my experience. Again though, he would NOT HAVE to agree to release you and you would need him to.

 

What is the lease break penalty? I've seen situations where it was a flat 2 months rent fee and others where it is rent owed until someone else takes occupancy. If he agreed to terminate the lease, that might be an option.

 

Otherwise, you are both equally on the hook for the rent. Basically, he holds the power in this situation. What do you think his thoughts on it would be?

[PegNosePete]

Not sure about this, the landlord going after only who lives in the unit.

Yes, that's precisely why I said that it very much depends on the wording of the rental contract and the laws of the state/country in which the OP lives.

 

Best to see a lawyer or a local expert in these matters.

[salparadise]

All of the money he has in the bank he made before we got married. Would a good lawyer be able to settle something for us? Would I have to pay him allimony even though he has more money than I do?

 

 

Do you mean would a good lawyer be able to get you a chunk of that $240k? Probably not, assuming he has a lawyer with at least half a brain. That money is simply off the table for you, and it also will not be a factor in other calculations. It's possible that a judge would take it into consideration, but would not admit to it because it's not legal or relevant. If your husband's lawyer is any good, he will object to any mention of that money as being relevant to how things are settled.

 

You think like my ex-wife. I had some separate money and it drove her nuts that she couldn't get at it. I ended up having to hire a forensic accountant to trace it (through investment transactions) and testify that it had never been commingled. She even tried to shame me for not being willing to give her half of it. She was using the "what's mine is mine, but what's your's is ours" method of reasoning. The judge didn't buy it. She just made me spend a few bucks on the accountant.

 

The thing you have going for you on alimony is not his nest egg, it's the fact that he has been able to get several jobs but quit them. If you prove that he has the ability to earn an income equal to yours, that number can be used as his earning potential for the purpose of calculating alimony. However, if his earning potential is less than your's, he could ask for half of the difference. How it will actually go depends on the judge, the rules and how they're usually administered in your location.

[DivorcedDad123]

I don't see alimony being an issue in a 3 year marriage. It's not like he's grown accustomed to a certain lifestyle in 3 years and can't manage to survive on his own.

[BlueIris]

… and I feel it would be a slap in the face if on top of that, I had to pay the rent so he can live there or that I have to pay him allimony because he is unemployed and I'm not. Hopefully, it all goes well.

 

I hope it goes well too. It’s understandable that you don’t want to support him any more, but be realistic and practical about his personality and your financial loss when you divorce. He’s a mooch and that is not likely to change while you are divorcing. If your lease is written in such a way that you’re each individually liable for the entire lease term and amount, which is usually the case, you might want to talk to the landlord and your STBX about subletting or assigning the lease to minimize your loss if you can’t be entirely released from it. Good luck.