how do you get to THAT point...?

[minimariah]

so i've been reading a lot about marriages that fall apart & where one of the spouses turns out to be... well, a lunatic, abusive, alcoholic, drugs addict, bad spouses who neglect kids and their partner -- my question is... how do you get to that point after years of dating and marriage?

 

how do you not see who you married BEFORE you even marry them? it's pretty clear people do not change overnight - so how do you get to a point that your marriage turns from a happy one to a miserable one?

[understand50]

so i've been reading a lot about marriages that fall apart & where one of the spouses turns out to be... well, a lunatic, abusive, alcoholic, drugs addict, bad spouses who neglect kids and their partner -- my question is... how do you get to that point after years of dating and marriage?

 

how do you not see who you married BEFORE you even marry them? it's pretty clear people do not change overnight - so how do you get to a point that your marriage turns from a happy one to a miserable one?

 

Love is blind. It is not just a good song lyric, when you are first in love, you only see the good in someone. This is why, having a long courtship is a good thing. You need to see the true side of your mate to be. Also, looking at people with a "past", you need to understand if this was a phase, or is this what they are? People can change, but how long have they changed, was it yesterday, or years ago.

 

If you marry a lunatic, abusive, alcoholic, drugs addict, you should at least know what you are getting into before you say I do. If they slip into this after, you need to take fast and firm action to help them. This does not happen all at once, but over time, so you need to keep your eye open. Many of us, if not all, have slipped into bad habits over time. Keep your mind and eyes open and stop the issues early, before the break the marriage is the key.

 

This idea that you can take a broken person and "fix" them, also is a bad idea. Marriage, is not a cure, only they themselves can change if they want to. I think marring an person who is "all" together helps. Are they sure of themselves and know what they want in a relationship.

 

How happiness is lost? It goes a little each day, until the "bad" in a marriage is built up and breaks the love and trust you have in each other. The trick is to put in the same energy into the marriage that you would put into work, hobbies, so fourth. If, because of life in general, you cannot give the same amount, let the other know that this is temporary, and a give a date when you can. I had to take jobs away from the family, but we both had a good idea of when we would be back together. It also helped that she was in on the decision, and what we were getting as a couple out of it.

[autumnnight]

When you do not live with someone day in and day out, you do not see everything. If a relationship has involved distance, that is even more a factor. Sometimes the issues are non-issues prior to marriage for other reasons. I had no idea my ex was basically asexual before marriage because we waited until marriage due to our beliefs. Sometimes one type of work doesn't translate to another. He was in school full time and working part time and graduated just before we married. I assumed based on that he had a good work ethic. I was wrong. I am sure there were things about me he didn't know until after marriage either.

 

It's a slow decline in some instances. The new of marriage may cause people to be on their best behavior awhile. Or maybe as long as things are easy they are great, but when life changes or get difficult, they aren't so great. Or maybe they had bad or lazy models growing up and just don't know better....and then don't care enough to DO better.

 

Maybe some people have better "intuition" than others. But yes, some people can really think going into marriage that it is going to work as long as you work at it, only to discover that no......it won;t when only one cares enough to work.

 

I admit when I read the idea that people should have "seen the signs" whether it be cheating or incompatibility or selfishness...that bothers me because it feels like blaming the victim for not being psychic.

[Got it]

Some people develop addictions after marriage. If you marry in your early 20s you are not going to necessarily see an active addiction at that point and/or understand and acknowledge the steps leading towards one.

 

People marry all the time without actually really doing a good analysis of the other person and themselves. Self introspection is not a trait all adults have, at any age. So there are plenty of 50/60 year olds who are making the same mistakes and oversights that their 20 year old selves did.

 

But people change, life happens to them, and they may cope in a healthy manner or take an unhealthy one.

 

I am also baffled that people seem to think we are stagnant in our maturity, mentality, development, etc. Ever year we are evolving in both good and bad ways. So who I was at 20 is no where close to the person I am now or will be at 50. Life forces change.

[BluEyeL]

so i've been reading a lot about marriages that fall apart & where one of the spouses turns out to be... well, a lunatic, abusive, alcoholic, drugs addict, bad spouses who neglect kids and their partner -- my question is... how do you get to that point after years of dating and marriage?

 

how do you not see who you married BEFORE you even marry them? it's pretty clear people do not change overnight - so how do you get to a point that your marriage turns from a happy one to a miserable one?

 

I've seen that my ex-H had character issues, but he wasn't an alcoholic, abusive, drug addict, he was "normal". Just seemed a bit mean and insincere and he would throw a lot of tantrums. But we met very young and people evolve and change, plus I didn't have the maturity to decide not to get married for those reasons.

 

Sometimes people evolve in different directions and they end up breaking up. That's what happened to my marriage. He decided his career wasn't equal to mine and he couldn't stand that mine was better (there is a guy that posted on here that the wife is traveling and that was his dream and he can't stand it, so it seems that spousal envy/competition is pretty common) so decided to cheat and eventually leave the home to make a better career for himself. S*it happens.

[SammySammy]

Low or lowered standards. Weak or non-existent boundaries and consequences. Compassion (love).

 

Pick one ... or more.

 

The question is where do we draw the line in the sand?

 

Some do it early. Some later.

[minimariah]

I am also baffled that people seem to think we are stagnant in our maturity, mentality, development, etc. Ever year we are evolving in both good and bad ways. So who I was at 20 is no where close to the person I am now or will be at 50. Life forces change.

 

i think folks ARE aware of the fact that people change & that most aren't emotionally mature until 30ies (it's a little earlier for women, usually) - which is why "young" marriages don't happen as often as they did in the past and i have a feeling that people don't really believe in the "forever" anymore... because, well... who knows what will change in a couple of years.

 

i think THIS was my question:

 

How happiness is lost? It goes a little each day, until the "bad" in a marriage is built up and breaks the love and trust you have in each other.

 

it's more like this... how do you go from "we are changing and working on our marriage" to "i absolutely hate that crazy S.O.B.!" -- so it's more about those marriages that had started GOOD & wanted to grow, well balanced & happy and turned into a freaking nightmare. we do change... not overnight but one day at a time. but how do you go from being happy to your spouse changing so much that you want OUT - no matter what...? so you go from one extreme to another - and even though we do change, we RARELY extremely change... until our partner cannot recognize us anymore.

 

and of course - can we stop that...? thinking in general about marriages - can you stop you & your partner from growing apart or is that a matter of pure luck? when you or your partner grow in a different direction and completely change - whose fault is that...? is that kismet (fate) OR you as a couple not loving each other enough and not taking marriage seriously enough and not working on your relationship hard enough...?

 

can growing in different directions be prevented?

 

I admit when I read the idea that people should have "seen the signs" whether it be cheating or incompatibility or selfishness...that bothers me because it feels like blaming the victim for not being psychic.

 

i understand and it makes sense. it is victim blaming. definitely.

 

but i think, sometimes... it's spot on. at the end of the day, you pick who you'll marry. so can it be your fault for not picking more carefully or not seeing signs or whatever...? or is that solely your lame partner's fault?

[Got it]

i think folks ARE aware of the fact that people change & that most aren't emotionally mature until 30ies (it's a little earlier for women, usually) - which is why "young" marriages don't happen as often as they did in the past and i have a feeling that people don't really believe in the "forever" anymore... because, well... who knows what will change in a couple of years.

 

i think THIS was my question:

 

 

 

it's more like this... how do you go from "we are changing and working on our marriage" to "i absolutely hate that crazy S.O.B.!" -- so it's more about those marriages that had started GOOD & wanted to grow, well balanced & happy and turned into a freaking nightmare. we do change... not overnight but one day at a time. but how do you go from being happy to your spouse changing so much that you want OUT - no matter what...? so you go from one extreme to another - and even though we do change, we RARELY extremely change... until our partner cannot recognize us anymore.

 

and of course - can we stop that...? thinking in general about marriages - can you stop you & your partner from growing apart or is that a matter of pure luck? when you or your partner grow in a different direction and completely change - whose fault is that...? is that kismet (fate) OR you as a couple not loving each other enough and not taking marriage seriously enough and not working on your relationship hard enough...?

 

can growing in different directions be prevented?

 

 

 

i understand and it makes sense. it is victim blaming. definitely.

 

but i think, sometimes... it's spot on. at the end of the day, you pick who you'll marry. so can it be your fault for not picking more carefully or not seeing signs or whatever...? or is that solely your lame partner's fault?

 

I think because people think relationships should be easy and a compromise now because a chasm later on. My first marriage, I compromised and (sorry have to use it) settled when I shouldn't have. I am not saying I settled for a lower guy but I/we settled on things in each other that weren't things we should have settled on. So the crack of that compromise (sex life, general outlook on life, etc.) getting hit by life event after life event became a chasm. And without working on it, without both parties being open and actively engaged in coming together, that became a major chasm.

 

Relationships take actively engagement of both parties actively coming back together every day to reconnect, readjust, to reevaluate, to work towards the partnership. We are sole entities that are forging a partnership that I don't think comes as naturally as being an individual. So keeping the balance of still existing as the individual as well as half of a partnership is a dance.

 

So, yes I think one can prevent growing in different directions but it takes both leaning in together. And some life events can make it harder. I also think it takes a lot of self awareness entering in to the marriage understand one's on strengths and foibles. I don' t think people really think about how they may change. How much life will keep affecting them and where their focus and passion will be. I think people, very easily, get complacent. As well as nursing our own hurt and injustices that build up walls and disconnect. I think a lot of the time people just stop focusing, stop trying, and just become more of an individual IN a partnership than PART of a partnership.

 

As a sidenote, I do believe that a relationship doesn't need to go forever to have been successful. It can end but still have been worthwhile.

[minimariah]

thanks, Got it. great post.

 

and i agree... a relationship ending doesn't mean that it wasn't worth it... but we are, i'd say, a little obsessed with "forever". it's in the human nature, i think.

[Gloria25]

While I side with my fav podcaster on "choose wisely and treat kindly" (and within this thread taking time to know the person has already been stressed - aka "choose wisely"), I believe often "reaching that point" is cuz people stop caring about the RL...

 

What do I mean?

 

Think of what you did when you were dating to get that person...You put on make up, shaved, gotten your haircut nice, car cleaned, etc. You would drive 12AM just to be with that person. You did your best to make every date interesting..In essence you put "effort" into the RL cuz you wanted that person.

 

Well, sometimes, after people get the ring and are locked in financially and/or with kids, they don't care anymore. It's a "take it or leave it" attitude. They get lazy. Time for sex? Pleeeze, I gotta get rest. Well geesh, I guess you just had bursts of energy while dating, huh?

 

Another thing besides not caring/nurturing the RL and focusing on bills and/or kids?

 

Growing apart...Well, growing apart also includes no longer caring about/putting effort into the RL, sometimes people just "evolve"/change (or "devolve"). Sometimes they'll change with you, sometimes they don't.

[Got it]

thanks, Got it. great post.

 

and i agree... a relationship ending doesn't mean that it wasn't worth it... but we are, i'd say, a little obsessed with "forever". it's in the human nature, i think.

 

I agree. We are, with all of our faults, creatures of forever optimists.

[Woggle]

To be honest my ex and I were both troubled and messed up kids who fell in love and got married. I got a job making good money and I started getting my act together but she went the opposite direction and started going completely off the rails.

[autumnnight]

I know for me, though I was far from perfect and we both made our own bad choices yada yada all the stuff

 

I didn't really SEE the lack of work on his part while we dated. The last 2 years of our relationship after knowing each other a long time was distance while he finished school. He came home every weekend and we spent lots of time together....but honestly in retrospect, that was really more about his family's expectations than about dying to see me. I had no idea at the time. I really thought I was the reason. He wasn't doing that "I can't keep my hands off you" thing, but then we grew up in a very very conservative church, and I assumed he was trying to stay away from temptation.

 

My first tiny niggling that putting thought into things wasn't his thing? In our area in our time, it was typical that the bride's family paid for the wedding, and the groom planned the wedding night/honeymoon. Bride and groom might pay for the honeymoon together, but the groom booked the wedding night, made it special, blah blah.

 

We left our wedding party and just drove, stopping at hotels until one had a vacancy. It was a very old Days Inn that smelled like mothballs. At the time I was so giddy being married overall that I didn't let myself feel the disappointment that tried to come up. It's just one night....then there were the nights I dressed in my prettiest nighties, and he basically kind of nudged me out of the way so he could finish watching a TV show instead.

 

I could go on and on....but after years and years and reading books and doing gymnastics....and he just....didn't...yeah, it pretty much choked out my romantic love. Was I perfect? Nope. Did I respond badly at times to his complete cluelessness that I wanted, NEEDED him to be in love with me? You betcha.

 

Does that mean he was a poor blameless hubby that I shoulda just stuck with?

 

Well I thought so for nearly 2 decades while I withered inside. Then I changed my mind.

[autumnnight]

It's funny though. The change was gradual, the hurt slowly built, the disappointment snuck up on me.....but after years and years....yeah, I kinda did wake up one day and realize: this is it. I have hit the final wall. I don't even care if he changes. It's too late.

[minimariah]

i'm sorry, autumn.

 

your ex seems like a huge douchebag and i'm glad he's OUT!

you deserve so much better, you seem like such a nice and kind person.

 

in my own example... i can't even comfort myself with the ex has changed thoughts. i realized recently that i was in love with the things he could have done and a man he could have be.. POTENTIAL. and i think i was waiting for him to finally evolve and he never did and welp. bad judgement, i guess.

[autumnnight]

i'm sorry, autumn.

 

your ex seems like a huge douchebag and i'm glad he's OUT!

you deserve so much better, you seem like such a nice and kind person.

 

in my own example... i can't even comfort myself with the ex has changed thoughts. i realized recently that i was in love with the things he could have done and a man he could have be.. POTENTIAL. and i think i was waiting for him to finally evolve and he never did and welp. bad judgement, i guess.

 

He had and has some very very good qualities. I really think for a low key, very domestically oriented, nonsexual woman who was financially independent and didn't mind being the breadwinner, he would be a great husband. He would help and be good company and be very very faithful. We were friends for a long time before we dated and married. We should have stuck to friends....except for our awesome kids.

 

Now that I have been honest and fair....yeah, he was a douchebag too, passive aggressive, and outright aggressive at the end.

[SycamoreCircle]

Relationships take engagement of both parties actively coming back together every day to reconnect, readjust, to reevaluate, to work towards the partnership. We are sole entities that are forging a partnership that I don't think comes as naturally as being an individual. So keeping the balance of still existing as the individual as well as half of a partnership is a dance.

I really like this, well put. I think being with someone else requires maturity, self-knowledge, self-control, evaluation and experience. It's hard to accept but we are constantly changing and everything around us is constantly changing.

[NYWoman]

With my second husband there were no red flags. Courting, dating we had lots of talks about a family, and how he wanted a boy or two. We both made good money and with a combined income we had talks of seeing the world together, of the future and taking our kids to Disneyland, ball games. He was an occasional golfer, we both played maybe 3 or 4 times a year.

The reality came after we had our two boys. He totally changed, he began planning and taking single parent vacations. Golf in Scotland, the west coast. He had never said anything about hunting and fishing, but became and avid outdoors man. He began taking hunting trips to Alaska, fishing trips to Wyoming, Montana, Mexico, and deep sea fishing. He never once taught the boys, how to fish, hunt or play sports. He turned totally selfish, it was all about him.

When the boys moved out, so did I. I moved back to the west to live with my mom. Naturally, with the boys gone, it meant more income for him to spend on his trips, so he freaked when I abruptly left him for good. With a single income he can no longer take his trips. And our boys want nothing to do with him, as they have married and moved on with their lives.

[Satu]

No relationship is older than a day.

 

They have to be renewed every day with a reinvestment of love and commitment.

 

Sometimes one or both partners forget to do that, and the relationship withers.

[xxoo]

We see the beginnings of it here all the time: people who are in the throes of love with someone with serious character flaws. Red flags all over. People plead, "leave!" But they don't, because love. Because great sex. Sometimes because insecurity, or naïveté.

 

But the blush of love fades without tending. And people grow stronger and wiser. And children make us tougher. The song "Landslide" explains some of this well.

 

The character flaws were there all along, but "the good outweighed the bad". I cringe every time I hear someone say that about their relationship. Relationships should support you through the bad in life, not BE part of the bad in life.