What causes MM/MW's to feel like they are imprisioned in their M beyond their control

August 7, 2015

It is a crock of sh*t. They say this to explain away their delay in taking action. I believe they very well maybe unhappy in their marriage, but there are aspect of it that are working and possibly cherish. Taking this stance allows them to maintain what is good in the relationship.

My MM said he would divorce his wife today, but he just doesn't know how. This is coming from a man who has several advanced degrees.

I told him he should start by talking to a lawyer. He acted as if I was speaking in tongues & didn't understand a word I said.

It's a stall tactic.

This.

My MM acts like he's in prison, saying strange, martyr like things to me all the time, such as "You are free. I am not. "

"I can't remember what it is like to be free..."

" I'm so trapped. I'm so trapped and miserable...."

This is a wealthy, assertive, very shrewd, business alpha type man.

He literally should come with his own violin pathos soundtrack.

He speaks of his marriage like he's the man in the iron mask.

It's insane.

August 7, 2015

"You are free. I am not. "

Well, it is true.

August 7, 2015

This.

My MM acts like he's in prison, saying strange, martyr like things to me all the time, such as "You are free. I am not. "

"I can't remember what it is like to be free..."

" I'm so trapped. I'm so trapped and miserable...."

This is a wealthy, assertive, very shrewd, business alpha type man.

He literally should come with his own violin pathos soundtrack.

He speaks of his marriage like he's the man in the iron mask.

It's insane.

Marriage can only be a trap if you let it be. Last time I checked, anyone can file for divorce. He's making a choice to handcuff himself. My xMM was also a very successful, alpha man who made multimillion dollar decisions daily yet he was a wimp with his personal life. He acted like he was being crucified by having to stay married. What a joke.

August 7, 2015

Q What causes MM/MW's to feel like they are imprisioned in their M beyond their control.

A. Because they are well into "victim mode".

IMO they are people who can't take responsibility for their own lives/actions/happiness etc. They are conflict avoident and have poor coping strategies.

In their view everything would be just peachy if x, y, or z would happen. But they do nothing about getting x,y, z to happen.

My exH was apparently telling OW how awful things were at home. She, instead of asking him what he was going to do about it, and when he was going to leave, did the "there, there, never mind, you poor chap, how awful for you". etc. And of course he lapped it all up.

I dated a married man once for 3 dates before I found out he was married and then I dropped him. When I asked him why he didn't leave instead of cheating he said he wouldn't leave his wife because he was "d@mnned if he would let her have the house that he'd paid for".

A friend of mine had an affair with a man who was married to an alchoholic. He wouldn't leave her because he didn't want to give her half his business. He stayed with her until she drank the profits away and he went bankrupt. Then he turned up on my friend's doorstep with a suitcase.

Another girl I know has been having an affair with a married guy for 15 years and his wife knows. According to her, he's waiting for his wife to divorce him. Every so often his wife throws him out and he goes to my friend's. After a week or so his wife begs for him to go back and he does. Lather, rinse and repeat.

I could quote more examples but I think I've made the point.

August 7, 2015

I think for many people, the evil you know is better than the evil you don't. They don't leave out of fear that if they do, there will be consequences they don't like... financial, emotional, child rearing issues and so on.

I think all of these things play a role, and many of the posters had some insight on some of the common denominators in these situations.

I'm the MW, and have been in a long distance EA for 6 years now. We've gone NC (the last one for 5 months, which I broke) several times, but keeping coming on again. This time though, after I broke NC, he won't entertain ANY talk of "us" and is keeping it friends only. He will only chat online, and refuses to call me (which he could only do while I'm at work only, my home phone is spied on) and get sucked back into "this twisted fantasy" as he calls it.

I joined this site after one of those NC times (long ago), hence the user name. I got a lot of great advice here but it wasn't enough to help me move forward out of a dead and miserable marriage. Neither was my deep love for my EA partner.

For me, personally, there are a lot of factors. For one, my husband's very controlling, so he has made me feel very incapable. I have no confidence in myself, so much that I'll barely be seen in public. I also have a big fear of being judged or looking like the bad person. The logical side of me knows I owe my husband NOTHING. He's been horrid to me in so many ways. I'm not going to say he's abusive (don't want to play victim card), but many things he's done (though not EVERY day) have been extremely abusive.

Another thing that keeps me stuck is overthinking. I've set myself so many deadlines. The last one was "when the kids are out of school for the summer", and here we are with school starting again in a few weeks. There is always procrastination (and I'm a natural at it anyway) that prevents me from taking the next (first) step. There are always reasons that it's not the right (easy) time to do it. Yet, it would never be easy because he wouldn't let it be easy. He's a contentious type of person, and that will never change.

My husband knows about the EA. It got very ugly at the time I told him, which was only 6 months into it. He has everything spied on at home, so I don't talk to OM from there (on computer), only at work.

Still, another element to staying in prison, is the fact that he can't just AGREE that it should end. I'd like it to be a mutual, amicable parting. Instead, it's a mind game to keep me (only for financial reasons). The marriage is completely lacking intimacy, and his only motive is money. I talk to him and tell him that I'm not happy living in HIS world, HIS way. Everything is determined by him. He either gets angry or stays silent when I try to talk to him. He never just agrees that it's not a marriage and needs to end. I told him I won't stay in a marriage that isn't a marriage. I'd rather be single and alone than married and alone. Yet, he says nothing. It makes me feel like I must be wrong.

Keep in mind, that good people would just agree that it's not working, and part ways amicably. He's just a selfish person that wants me to be his prisoner (living by only his rules). He controls virtually every aspect of my life. That's how it feels. Maybe I'm a coward, but he's helped to make me more of one.

August 7, 2015

Oh, I have to TOTALLY agree with AriesWoman and say...conflict avoidant is a huge trait of mine.

I can't handle conflict of any type. I might have always been that way, but I know for sure he's made it WAY worse by being SO contentious and downright vindictive.

Do any of the other MW/MM's have an element of any abuse, or vindictiveness in their marriage?

August 7, 2015

I hate conflict too, but I will just leave when we can't find a solution that makes us both happy.

August 7, 2015

I think all of these things play a role, and many of the posters had some insight on some of the common denominators in these situations.

I'm the MW, and have been in a long distance EA for 6 years now. We've gone NC (the last one for 5 months, which I broke) several times, but keeping coming on again. This time though, after I broke NC, he won't entertain ANY talk of "us" and is keeping it friends only. He will only chat online, and refuses to call me (which he could only do while I'm at work only, my home phone is spied on) and get sucked back into "this twisted fantasy" as he calls it.

I joined this site after one of those NC times (long ago), hence the user name. I got a lot of great advice here but it wasn't enough to help me move forward out of a dead and miserable marriage. Neither was my deep love for my EA partner.

For me, personally, there are a lot of factors. For one, my husband's very controlling, so he has made me feel very incapable. I have no confidence in myself, so much that I'll barely be seen in public. I also have a big fear of being judged or looking like the bad person. The logical side of me knows I owe my husband NOTHING. He's been horrid to me in so many ways. I'm not going to say he's abusive (don't want to play victim card), but many things he's done (though not EVERY day) have been extremely abusive.

Another thing that keeps me stuck is overthinking. I've set myself so many deadlines. The last one was "when the kids are out of school for the summer", and here we are with school starting again in a few weeks. There is always procrastination (and I'm a natural at it anyway) that prevents me from taking the next (first) step. There are always reasons that it's not the right (easy) time to do it. Yet, it would never be easy because he wouldn't let it be easy. He's a contentious type of person, and that will never change.

My husband knows about the EA. It got very ugly at the time I told him, which was only 6 months into it. He has everything spied on at home, so I don't talk to OM from there (on computer), only at work.

Still, another element to staying in prison, is the fact that he can't just AGREE that it should end. I'd like it to be a mutual, amicable parting. Instead, it's a mind game to keep me (only for financial reasons). The marriage is completely lacking intimacy, and his only motive is money. I talk to him and tell him that I'm not happy living in HIS world, HIS way. Everything is determined by him. He either gets angry or stays silent when I try to talk to him. He never just agrees that it's not a marriage and needs to end. I told him I won't stay in a marriage that isn't a marriage. I'd rather be single and alone than married and alone. Yet, he says nothing. It makes me feel like I must be wrong.

Keep in mind, that good people would just agree that it's not working, and part ways amicably. He's just a selfish person that wants me to be his prisoner (living by only his rules). He controls virtually every aspect of my life. That's how it feels. Maybe I'm a coward, but he's helped to make me more of one.

A long-distance EA for six YEARS??? And he has limited it so that you can't even talk on the phone?

WTH are you still doing in this relationship?

August 7, 2015

It is really tough. Most who know me here know that I came here because of being involved in a long-term A of more than 8 years, both EA and PA. We started out dating, then became engaged a few years later (he was separated, not single -and spare me; yes it was stupid). Then he went back to his wife. Thus the affair started.

Now, finally, he has had some kind of Come to Jesus Moment and managed to actually divorce her. So he is single. And now... it's just too little, too late. Just too much has happened.

I was in the hospital, cardiac intensive care unit, for a few days this past week, and he was still listed as my next-of-kin (from the last time I was there, when I had our child). So when I was brought in, they apparently called him. By the time I was with it enough to actually ask for my phone, a few hours later, I had sixteen missed calls from him. Sixteen more calls than I had the last time I was there!

So sometimes they do come around, but I really don't understand why, and what the trigger eventually is. Or what it all means in the end.

August 7, 2015

Two quotations from the late Frank Pittman, Psychiatrist and marriage/infidelity expert.

'Marriage is not supposed to make you happy. It is supposed to make you married, and once you are safely and totally married, then you have a structure of security and support from which you are free to make yourself happy, rather than wasting your adulthood looking for a structure.'

:

'Marriage is the promise - not the emotions, not even the relationship, but the commitment. To be worth anything more than vacation together, a boarding arrangement, or a temporary job, a marital promise must be made to withstand and weather all human emotions, and inhuman ones as well.'

August 7, 2015

Are they for real about this? Part of me think that they are faking that attitude (because it's an easy cop out) but part of me think they really believe that they are a poor victim who is stuck with no recourse. Like it is absolutely out of their control. I have seen many people, even people not in A's have this attitude. I might have even had it a long time ago when I was married, but I have long since forgotten. I just don't understand what makes one have this attitude. Is it because you spend so long being at your spouses beck and call and ignoring so many of your needs that you forgot what it's like to have any sort of control of yourself (or others) anymore?

Just curious.

When I asked my husband what he thought gave him licence to help himself to an extra marital relationship and his reasons for doing so. He told me he'd persuaded himself that I didn't love him (our circumstances and living logistics were very difficult at the time).

He believed this to be true, even though our relationship was not lacking (certainly not sexually, that's always been healthy) under the stress of the situation.

He was too weak to handle what was happening. I'm glad he found his balls eventually.

August 7, 2015

MM was prime carer for his wife.... physically disabled with arthritic back problems. He is now 73 and divorcing her was out of the question.

I knew that when I started seeing him.

In this case I know he couldn't have divorced her.

Poppy

August 7, 2015

Are they for real about this? Part of me think that they are faking that attitude (because it's an easy cop out) but part of me think they really believe that they are a poor victim who is stuck with no recourse. Like it is absolutely out of their control. I have seen many people, even people not in A's have this attitude. I might have even had it a long time ago when I was married, but I have long since forgotten. I just don't understand what makes one have this attitude. Is it because you spend so long being at your spouses beck and call and ignoring so many of your needs that you forgot what it's like to have any sort of control of yourself (or others) anymore?

Just curious.

You've been rocking the posts and topics!

I do think they believe they are trapped and feel powerless. A or no A I see this with people I know. People who are secure in their individual identity and have personal as well as common goals seem not to have this issue. The longer they are together the worse it is. I think it could be a few of the following:

Codependency

When people aren't individuals they become a unit of Mr & Mrs x

No interests outside of shared ones

Complacency

Societal pressure

Worrying about what others will think (their parents)

Children

Finances

Fear of the unknown

That it takes work and conversation to decouple

Maybe religion

Worry about hurting their spouse they no longer love

What these people fail to realise is life here is finite not infinite. All relationships can hit rough patches and I certainly don't advocate a split if something goes wrong but if you are M to someone you're NOT IN LOVE with and have REALLY tried to work it out, staying M is the wrong thing to do. By example the somewhat real somewhat I'm sure is fabricated story. Let's call them fictional couple in 25 year marriage, 5 years dating 30 total.

Childhood Sweerheats

Married very young

2 houses with her parents across the street his down the street

Money enough initially

Happy and content

Religious

Baby 1

Still happy and content

H career requires move from their tiny hamlet to large vibrant city for 2 years

Settle in. Start planning baby 2.

Neither have been out of their hamlet so very exciting

She decides not to work

H is training and progressing in career and enjoys urban life

H is becoming successful and growing and changing as a person

H wants to share expierences with W

W wants to be stay at home mom to in school 9 year old & get pregnant

H keeps growing as a person, works on pregnancy

H starts A because he is different and is outgrowing W (& is *******)

W gets pregnant

New baby H stops A and they go back to tiny hamlet

H now has international role begins travelling

W in hamlet with some family 2 kids and church

H is her only adult outlet

H should have moved them to a bigger town with more opportunities for W

W resents H travel and career likes money

This pattern continues for years

W starts to control H more and more out of fear

W using spending money as a soother and food

H is delinquent in making W be confident

H feels guilt for travel

H allows her to spend

Children are a diversion

Start faith based marriage therapy

Pastor advises W that H has to be off to earn money

Pastor advises H since he is away so much H must spend every other time w/ W

W likes this.

H accompanies W everywhere

W makes H sell motorcycle because no solo activities are allowed

This pattern continues nearly 2 years

W thinks H is depressed. Goes to GP and gets H on antidepressants

That works for a year

H stops medication because H finding work difficult

H&W try different marriage therapy for a year

Child 1 to university

H tells his one friend he is allowed to have individually he wants to D but worries

H&W continue another year

W gets p/t job in childcare

H has 2 month A

H invites W on work trips so she can see world

W wants to not leave the country or even hamlet

H&W continue

W thinks H is the most amazing ever

H is confrontation avoidant and miserable & doesn't communicate w/W

H&W living in false reality: W blissful and uninformed; H miserable & pretending

H tells lie and starts A in another country

W still being deceived but notices H being different suggests antidepressants

H declines antidepressants

AP notices MM is "off" suggests IC

H starts IC

Youngest to uni oldest completes undergrad starts grad school

Debt mountain unbearable

H doesn't tell wife about A or IC

A goes on about 6.5 months until AP finds out she is OW

OW breaks off PA.

H continues in IC

OW has EA with MM

OW & MM discuss. OW says he should have communicated w/W

MM gives OW reasons he hasn't got a divorce

The kids

Alimony

His parents opinion

Her parents opinion

Debt

"Losing every thing MM worked for"

"How will W cope without me"

Duration of marriage

Worried about loss of face

Can't imagine life without having every minute of his life accounted for

Has no idea who he is

Those are reasons I got. None are good for everyone to be this miserable.

OW advises talking to therapist

T advises divorce and stop lying to W

OW advises MM is an actor in a play he created wherevother actors don't know they are in a play

MM advises he's not ready to D

MM continues IC and does budget

MM realised they are broke tries to discuss it with W she doesn't believe it

Mm and BW grow further apart until

MM finally starts D process

MM doesn't go through with D

H & W try to reconcile

OW and MM split

Reconciliation outcome unsure

So not growing together. Not communicating. Wrong Therapists. Huge Debt. Multiple A, W unwilling to do new things, H not making W feel special, W exerting super control, W lets herself go physically, H lying

Edited August 7, 2015 by NewLeaf512

August 7, 2015

To oversimplify,

I think a lot of married people just say they are trapped in their marriage and actually don't feel that way at all. (I have no evidence to back this up other than my own opinions and observations as a single person by the way.)

Let's face it.

'I'm trapped in my marriage and no one understands me like you', sounds a hell of a lot better than 'well actually, I love my spouse but we're both pretty busy so maybe don't make the effort like we should anymore. Plus sex is a bit predictable and boring these days, but you're something shiny and new and I wouldn't mind a bit of action on the side.'

Can't imagine that would win many affair partners over.

August 7, 2015

I think that men in general are much more cowardly than women when it comes to relationships. Or at least I seem to be very good at getting involved with emotionally codependent, weak men who are afraid to be on their own.

Men don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire. In other words, they may truly be unhappy or at least dissatisfied in their marriages, yet they don't have a "guarantee" that something better is out there. So they ain't leaving! Because hey, what if it really isn't better? Then what?

Whereas women believe and trust in their feelings more, and in general believe in relationships more. Men need a sure thing before they take action, and there is never a sure thing. So for them the status quo, however dissatisfying that might be, is better than the unknown.

me are total cowards but I also think it has something to do with ego. as in them looking bad or being perceived to be a failure.

August 7, 2015

To oversimplify,

I think a lot of married people just say they are trapped in their marriage and actually don't feel that way at all. (I have no evidence to back this up other than my own opinions and observations as a single person by the way.)

Let's face it.
'I'm trapped in my marriage and no one understands me like you', sounds a hell of a lot better than 'well actually, I love my spouse but we're both pretty busy so maybe don't make the effort like we should anymore. Plus sex is a bit predictable and boring these days, but you're something shiny and new and I wouldn't mind a bit of action on the side.'

Can't imagine that would win many affair partners over.

HA HA HA love this. I think whilst this is true in lots of cases, A take a lot of mind space and planning that could be used to reconnect with their S. I think the trap thing is real, EXCEPT it's usually a trap the WS created for themselves.

August 7, 2015

Are they for real about this? Part of me think that they are faking that attitude (because it's an easy cop out) but part of me think they really believe that they are a poor victim who is stuck with no recourse. Like it is absolutely out of their control. I have seen many people, even people not in A's have this attitude. I might have even had it a long time ago when I was married, but I have long since forgotten. I just don't understand what makes one have this attitude. Is it because you spend so long being at your spouses beck and call and ignoring so many of your needs that you forgot what it's like to have any sort of control of yourself (or others) anymore?

Just curious.

Oh yeah! The "there's nothing I can do right now" ....seriously? Why? I get that all the time. Followed by "if that's not good enough for you let me know"....SERIOUSLY!!!!

a nd then "it's tough for me too and I'm hurting too"

I'm Sure you've all heard this before!

August 7, 2015

I'd guess an external locus of control, but these guys so often exhibit control and success in other areas. If they truly feel trapped, what emboldens them to aggressively pursue OW?

More likely, it's all rationalization and manipulation.

August 7, 2015

Are they for real about this? Part of me think that they are faking that attitude (because it's an easy cop out) but part of me think they really believe that they are a poor victim who is stuck with no recourse. Like it is absolutely out of their control. I have seen many people, even people not in A's have this attitude. I might have even had it a long time ago when I was married, but I have long since forgotten. I just don't understand what makes one have this attitude. Is it because you spend so long being at your spouses beck and call and ignoring so many of your needs that you forgot what it's like to have any sort of control of yourself (or others) anymore?

Just curious.

My MM certainly felt this way. When he left, before I ever came into the picture, she went full on nuts. She wouldn't take care of herself, wouldn't take care of their kids, feigned a suicide attempt that even the hospital didn't believe as they kicked her loose 2 hours later, and generally just went crazy. Then he felt, for the best interest of the kids, he had to stay because she wouldn't be a functional human without him. So he did, and he was miserable, and she continued all the behavior that caused him to leave in the first place. Then she "forgot" to take birth control and "forgot" to tell him and there came another baby.

By the time I came along, he was broken and miserable, convinced he couldn't leave, and in the numerous attempts to leave that he tried to make after their child was born, she made clear he couldn't or else "she'd do what she did before." She knew acting nuts and the fear of what she'd do would keep him locked in.

Until it didn't.

It made my "I'm stuck here too" excuses as to why I couldn't leave my marriage seem a bit dumb. In that situation, I felt like I couldn't when the reality was the assumed hassle of it was more than I was willing to deal with. When I was ready to deal with it, I was done and out and gone in days and our divorce was done in days too.

August 7, 2015

Some are liars, some are professional victims, some lack a backbone-

Its just like anything else- we all have friends that can't: lose weight, get a better job, etc.. not because they can't but because they won't- some like the sympathy, some are weak, some are just truly stuck-

If divorce held a stigma, I could understand feeling stuck-but it doesn't. I am a teacher- our school educates children in safe houses as part of our population, most are battered women-if they could take the first step- anyone can-

August 7, 2015

I have wondered this to.

I could be wrong, but I think part of the reason they use this excuse is cowardice.

Part of it is it's an easy excuse to use when they never really intended to leave. It sounds so noble, being the martyr forced to stay because of the innocent little children ( even though having the affair in the first place will have hurt them already), and really, who would deny someone staying for their kids?

August 7, 2015

I have wondered this to.

I could be wrong, but I think part of the reason they use this excuse is cowardice.

Part of it is it's an easy excuse to use when they never really intended to leave. It sounds so noble, being the martyr forced to stay because of the innocent little children ( even though having the affair in the first place will have hurt them already), and really, who would deny someone staying for their kids?

The main reason they use it is because it works. Just look at all the threads on here where the om/ow accepts is as an excuse.

August 7, 2015

I don't leave for many reasons: 1- am I a quitter? Did I just quit? 2- Children, I was sick to my stomach reading about divorce and how custody would work, I hate the thought of my kids not being with me all the time, and missing their dad. 3- finances! I can't afford to live on my own... My kids deserve the best life and that can only be provided when there are two incomes not two incomes being split. 4- my family and his family are ours and I would miss them, they are hard to let go and they would hate me forever.

More shallow things also play a role, such as social status and loosing friendships.

It's not an easy thing to get your head around.

August 7, 2015

I think for men, maybe part of the reason is because no matter how they feel about the marriage, if they have kids, they don't want 2 weekends a month and a weekday for the rest of their lives? Probably some financial considerations too.

I know sometimes one spouse can go bat-crap when divorce is mentioned and threaten all sorts of things. I wonder how many of them would actually follow through though. Not completely related as I wasn't keeping someone "on the string," but I know when I finally decided to file, mine was all dramatic and sad and then "threateny" and all sorts of things. But even though that had given me pause before, at the real end I knew he wouldn't follow through. After all, he hadn't had the gumption to do anything to actually fix his end of the marriage, so he was of course also too lazy to make it that hard for me to leave. Too much like work. Oh, and the "he" was my H.

Most of the time if things really are bad enough to leave and someone really wants out....they do it.

August 7, 2015

Some are liars, some are professional victims, some lack a backbone-

Its just like anything else- we all have friends that can't: lose weight, get a better job, etc.. not because they can't but because they won't- some like the sympathy, some are weak, some are just truly stuck-

If divorce held a stigma, I could understand feeling stuck-but it doesn't. I am a teacher- our school educates children in safe houses as part of our population, most are battered women-if they could take the first step- anyone can-

As someone one said " no one ever died of divorce"

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What causes MM/MW's to feel like they are imprisioned in their M beyond their control

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