SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 In my healing process, one of the things that continually nags at me is my ex's distorted sense of intimacy. I guess it's fair to say any person who cheats has a misaligned sense of intimacy. I've tried to be objective about it, but it's difficult. I think I struggle with it so much because I feel it's at the root of my anger, the anger between me and being free of my ex once and for all. One thing I remember is how during our relationship my GF would tell me about phone conversations her mother had with her regarding her husband(my GF's father). "He's lost some of his front teeth and my mom can't bear the thought of looking at him unless he's wearing his bridge. It really makes her lose attraction for him." That's just one example. I also remember her telling me that her mom, during a visit my GF made back home, seemed really "daffy" and annoyingly inquisitive about our romance. My question is this---we acquire so much from our parents---has what I've described to you suggested that her mother had poor boundaries, sharing details about her own sexual attraction to my GF's father, inquiring about her daughter's sex life? One other thing I wish to mention---my GF told me that her mother was very strict with her growing up in all matters except sex. My GF was allowed to have free reign over her sexual relationships from a very early age.
salparadise Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Yes, I'd certainly consider that a lack of boundaries. What do you mean when you say, "allowed to have free reign over her sexual relationships from a very early age." Was the mother allowing/encouraging her to bring boys to her room and have sex when she was... what, 12-13-14? Most good parents are trying to keep their kids from having sex while still children. Sounds to me like her mother may be a little deviant, or maybe a whole lot... not enough info though. Does the daughter (the gf) have weak boundaries and permissive attitudes toward children and sexuality?
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 Yes, I'd certainly consider that a lack of boundaries. What do you mean when you say, "allowed to have free reign over her sexual relationships from a very early age." Was the mother allowing/encouraging her to bring boys to her room and have sex when she was... what, 12-13-14? Most good parents are trying to keep their kids from having sex while still children. Sounds to me like her mother may be a little deviant, or maybe a whole lot... not enough info though. Does the daughter (the gf) have weak boundaries and permissive attitudes toward children and sexuality?I can't answer you precisely. I got the impression that by the time my ex was sexually curious, she was allowed to be sexually active. Deviancy?! My God, I never thought of that. My ex did not like children AT ALL! But to give you another example of her weak sense of boundaries---when I met her she was living with a married couple. She was their roommate. They'd lived together for about 6 years. I later discovered that they had a menage a trois. When she moved out of their place and into mine, there was some definite friction between them and as far as I know they don't keep in touch. Going back to the mother's possible deviancy---when our BU was in full throttle, I sent some letters of correspondence to the mother. I was hoping I could gain level footing in a collapse that, at the time, made little sense to me. Her mother took a very stoic, I-care-but-this-is-none-of-my-business attitude towards the whole thing. Of course, what I knew through snooping my cheating ex's e-mail was that the mother was VERY much interested in her daughter's affairs. I think to some degree, and my ex corroborated this, my ex's mother lived vicariously through her daughter's sexual exploits.
salparadise Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Mothering is such a key ingredient in how people develop... it's nigh impossible for a daughter to be unaffected by her mother's parenting deficiencies. I can't imagine a good mother 'allowing' a youngster to be sexually active––seems mutually exclusive to me. Sure some kids start early, but doing so with the mother's blessing just seems wacko. I don't know much about any part of the situation, so I'll leave it at the generalization and not attempt to draw conclusions.
lana-banana Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 One thing I remember is how during our relationship my GF would tell me about phone conversations her mother had with her regarding her husband(my GF's father). "He's lost some of his front teeth and my mom can't bear the thought of looking at him unless he's wearing his bridge. It really makes her lose attraction for him." That's just one example. I have heard lots of stories of parents displaying no boundaries but this does not seem to be one of them. It might be a little weird but it's by no means sexually inappropriate. I also remember her telling me that her mom, during a visit my GF made back home, seemed really "daffy" and annoyingly inquisitive about our romance. Without details there's no way to know. Lots of parents are "annoyingly inquisitive" without necessarily missing their boundaries. My question is this---we acquire so much from our parents---has what I've described to you suggested that her mother had poor boundaries, sharing details about her own sexual attraction to my GF's father, inquiring about her daughter's sex life? One other thing I wish to mention---my GF told me that her mother was very strict with her growing up in all matters except sex. My GF was allowed to have free reign over her sexual relationships from a very early age. It sounds to me like you're trying to make excuses for why your ex cheated, as though if you just find the one perfect explanation everything else will make sense and you'll stop obsessing. One of the most important parts of finding closure is accepting there is no single moment of closure. Getting closure is accepting a situation for what it truly is, as irrational and painful as it may be, rather than trying to make it into something that's easier to understand. 2
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 It sounds to me like you're trying to make excuses for why your ex cheated, as though if you just find the one perfect explanation everything else will make sense and you'll stop obsessing. One of the most important parts of finding closure is accepting there is no single moment of closure. Getting closure is accepting a situation for what it truly is, as irrational and painful as it may be, rather than trying to make it into something that's easier to understand.I agree with a lot of what you wrote and I'm aware that I'm asking questions that probably have no answer. But in order to stop wanting to ask the questions, you've first got to ask the questions. Thankfully, I've stopped asking a lot of the easier questions. Now it's just these circuitous, psychological probings. It's nice to be humored in the interim.
Tayla Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 hmmm.....as adults and rather private in certain matters, My Mother and I had skimmed the surface of that arena of adulthood. We didn't go into detail , we shared concerns that were more womanly or had to do with the crux of marital angst. Mostly it was wisdom being shared . As a Lady, (another thing we forget our mothers are), She took comfort later in life as we spoke in sharing some of the unkind statements and actions my Dad had made. Never during our upbringing....Yet to this day, it breaks my heart that My Mom had been treated so shoddy. So In some ways, Yes as adults we will delve into such talks, yet not to the level of intruding on anothers intimate moments...If that makes sense?
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 My Mother and I had skimmed the surface of that arena of adulthood. We didn't go into detail , we shared concerns that were more womanly or had to do with the crux of marital angst.I think what I may really be getting at is---were my ex and her mother like a coven? I feel there was something immoral about their position towards men. Yes, my ex took up a pronounced fascination with Satanism and the occult after she moved out. Yes, my ex's mother was encouraging her to burn candles in our "studio" presumably to purge or protect her from dangerous spirits. Can this shi† get any weirder or more ridiculous?
BC1980 Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Why are you still this concerned about your GF's issues? Why do you think focusing on her will help you move on? 1
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 Because... I am who I am And that's all that I am I'm Popeye the Sailor Man (Toot-toot)
RoseVille Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 I think what I may really be getting at is---were my ex and her mother like a coven? I feel there was something immoral about their position towards men. Huh? Because mom told daughter she's not attracted to her husband when he doesn't have his teeth in? Because mom asked questions about daughter's love life? Parents and their adult children can be FRIENDS. It sounds like that's exactly the type of relationship they have - nothing immoral about it. 3
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 Huh? Because mom told daughter she's not attracted to her husband when he doesn't have his teeth in? Because mom asked questions about daughter's love life? Parents and their adult children can be FRIENDS. It sounds like that's exactly the type of relationship they have - nothing immoral about it.Those were just two examples. Moreover, I felt that the mother encouraged secrecy, subterfuge, magic and conspiracy. Basically, anything but open, direct communication.
JADIE Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Huh? Because mom told daughter she's not attracted to her husband when he doesn't have his teeth in? Because mom asked questions about daughter's love life? Parents and their adult children can be FRIENDS. It sounds like that's exactly the type of relationship they have - nothing immoral about it. Thanks for this...I was beginning to think there was something really wrong with what my adult married daughter and I discuss with each other when we chat! I'm no longer with her father, but yes, we discuss our sexuality and relationship issues...not in enough detail to make me look at my son in law differently, but somewhat graphically. My daughter and I both have very healthy libidos, something my own mother did NOT and does not have, so definitely not a topic I discuss with mom. But my daughter, yes absolutely. I did not think we were sacrificing healthy boundaries by doing so...but I could be wrong. 1
RoseVille Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Those were just two examples. Moreover, I felt that the mother encouraged secrecy, subterfuge, magic and conspiracy. Basically, anything but open, direct communication. Why is this relationship still affecting you? How long ago did you split and how long were you together?
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 Thanks for this...I was beginning to think there was something really wrong with what my adult married daughter and I discuss with each other when we chat! I'm no longer with her father, but yes, we discuss our sexuality and relationship issues...not in enough detail to make me look at my son in law differently, but somewhat graphically. My daughter and I both have very healthy libidos, something my own mother did NOT and does not have, so definitely not a topic I discuss with mom. But my daughter, yes absolutely. I did not think we were sacrificing healthy boundaries by doing so...but I could be wrong.It also sounds like the two of you are very honest with each other. Take that same dynamic and tint it with persuasion and lies. This was my ex to her mother. She relied on her guidance but also boldly lied to her. It was sort of like...take what's useful and leave everything else behind. The mother, who'd been around the block, knew the fragility of her daughter's personality and coddled her. I mean, anything too strong and she would have pushed her away, pushed her into even greater withholding, greater unavailability.
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 Why is this relationship still affecting you? How long ago did you split and how long were you together?Because, as lana banana put it, something violent and irrational happened to me. Something violent and irrational happened to the person I loved. Why must I qualify the pain of that? Why are you so resistant to strictly focus on my questions? Why must my motives be your subject?
RoseVille Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 It also sounds like the two of you are very honest with each other. Take that same dynamic and tint it with persuasion and lies. This was my ex to her mother. She relied on her guidance but also boldly lied to her. It was sort of like...take what's useful and leave everything else behind. . That's what most people do with advice they receive, from anyone. 2
RoseVille Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Because, as lana banana put it, something violent and irrational happened to me. Something violent and irrational happened to the person I loved. Why must I qualify the pain of that? Why are you so resistant to strictly focus on my questions? Why must my motives be your subject? Your motives should be YOUR subject. I could care less about them. You should, though. Addressing why you care will help you a lot more than analying why anyone else - your ex, her mom, me and other posters - do/say the things we do. 1
BlueIris Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 I think Roseville’s right about that, about seeing yourself. I don’t see anything especially out of line in what you’ve described about your ex and her mom. After all, the first talk about sex and relationships that a girl has is usually with her mom. Maybe they are new agey or into magick (in re “covens”). To me, it sounds as though you and your family are different from her and hers. My BF’s family relationships are very different from my family’s relationships too. Nothing right or wrong in that. Maybe you'll never fully understand them. One other thing I wish to mention---my GF told me that her mother was very strict with her growing up in all matters except sex. My GF was allowed to have free reign over her sexual relationships from a very early age. One of my kids lived in a Scandinavian country for a year while she was in her teens and over there, teens slept over at their BF’s or GF’s parents’ houses even on school nights sometimes. That was pretty much unheard of where I was raising her in the US!
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 That's what most people do with advice they receive, from anyone.OK, I'm backing out of this---you're carefully picking out of my responses what's helpful to your argument. SHE LIES TO HER OWN MOTHER.
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 Your motives should be YOUR subject. I could care less about them. You should, though. Addressing why you care will help you a lot more than analying why anyone else - your ex, her mom, me and other posters - do/say the things we do.I loved this person. They hurt me deeply. They don't care. I have to figure out what do with this love. I know I'm not supposed to care about them. I know I'm not supposed to act interested in them. I know I'm supposed to bury everything and forget.
RoseVille Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 OK, I'm backing out of this---you're carefully picking out of my responses what's helpful to your argument. SHE LIES TO HER OWN MOTHER. So? I've not told my mother the truth about many things over the years, simply to not upset her. 2
BC1980 Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Because, as lana banana put it, something violent and irrational happened to me. Something violent and irrational happened to the person I loved. Why must I qualify the pain of that? Why are you so resistant to strictly focus on my questions? Why must my motives be your subject? What happened that was violent and irrational? You've been on LS for awhile, and I don't think it's good to be this focused on her psyche at this point. 1
Author SycamoreCircle Posted August 7, 2015 Author Posted August 7, 2015 What happened that was violent and irrational? You've been on LS for awhile, and I don't think it's good to be this focused on her psyche at this point.I don't feel up to retelling anything. Arguing these finer points with you and Roseville is useless. Just let it be.
BC1980 Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 I don't feel up to retelling anything. Arguing these finer points with you and Roseville is useless. Just let it be. I don't want to argue any points with you. I'm genuinely saying that I don't think it's good to be focused on her this far out. I don't think it's helpful. You will never be able to figure another person out. It won't happen. You will have enough on your plate trying to figure yourself out. 1
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