Ifalltopieces Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Do MM have a conscious? Do they ever feel bad about the pain and agony they cause the OW? How about the pain and agony they cause their spouses/families? I know there are MM on this forum..I wanna know the real deal. Do any of them care at all? Or... Is it just when they get caught? I'm interested to know what thoughts and feelings go through their minds...especially if they are deliberately lying to the OW and future faking.
TaraMaiden2 Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 ConsciENCE. And yes, it's probable they do, but unfortunately satisfying their egos and trouser friends always seems to win through.... 1
Got it Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Yes my husband dealt with a lot of guilt for the the pain he caused others. 1
Midwestmissy Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 My cheater felt bad too - when our 17 yr old found emails and called him a f--g p--y for being such an idiot, the extent of his fwb no strings attached mess hit him hard. Try disciplining teenagers for lying or selfishness and watch them laugh in your face, sneer and walk to hug their mother. He gave up a lot for a free strange at work. He said the ow was easy because she had no self respect, would drop her pile of kids to meet him. Yet those were also the things that disgusted him. Of course I couldn't meet him in the middle of any afternoon at a hotel - I gladly, and with his support, exchanged spontaneity for being responsible for little ones. The mow selfishly didn't, and after 5 months he had nothing but contempt for her and himself. They actually got away with nothing at all, and he's been begging me for forgiveness ever since. Meanwhile she's been calling again since obviously her life isn't going so well. These are 50 year olds for gawds sake.
Sassy Girl Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Mine did. When his wife asked a question about his whereabouts (he had been with me) he got spooked and we were over. He didn't want to hurt her or me. Lucky for him I was pragmatic about it and not attached. It could have been worse for him.
Hope Shimmers Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Mine did. When his wife asked a question about his whereabouts (he had been with me) he got spooked and we were over. He didn't want to hurt her or me. Lucky for him I was pragmatic about it and not attached. It could have been worse for him. I now understand your posts a lot better. Neither you or your ex-MM were emotionally involved with each other. OP - yes, married men have a conscience. 1
Sassy Girl Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 I now understand your posts a lot better. Neither you or your ex-MM were emotionally involved with each other. OP - yes, married men have a conscience. Define emotionally involved? It's not black and white. It's a spectrum. We had feelings. We never spoke about it explicitly until it was all done and dusted. At the end of the day we had an arrangement and we're both pragmatic about that. Did we care about each other? Sure. We had heaps in common and the chemistry was off the charts. Do I miss him? Yeah. But given his wife is suspicious it's stupid of us to continue. It's done. We were both clear about the nature of our arrangement at the outset and neither of us moved the goal posts.
Grapesofwrath Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 On another thread, someone wrote that cheaters are usually also bigtime conflict avoiders. So much so that they also avoid internal conflict. Feelings of guilt and remorse require one to tolerate a significant amount of internal conflict. All that to say, I think they realize that what they are doing is wrong, but they don't want to dwell on that because it's too much internal conflict. Once the conflict gets external (i.e. a D-day) that's a different story. When that happens, expressing guilt or remorse actually works to lessen the conflict. 3
Author Ifalltopieces Posted August 6, 2015 Author Posted August 6, 2015 On another thread, someone wrote that cheaters are usually also bigtime conflict avoiders. So much so that they also avoid internal conflict. Feelings of guilt and remorse require one to tolerate a significant amount of internal conflict. All that to say, I think they realize that what they are doing is wrong, but they don't want to dwell on that because it's too much internal conflict. Once the conflict gets external (i.e. a D-day) that's a different story. When that happens, expressing guilt or remorse actually works to lessen the conflict. So they basically use the "guilt" they do feel in order to get sympathy from the people they hurt? Hmmm makes sense. Just another example of how selfish these men are. They don't do, say or feel anything that doesn't benefit them.
Hope Shimmers Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Define emotionally involved? It's not black and white. It's a spectrum. We had feelings. We never spoke about it explicitly until it was all done and dusted. At the end of the day we had an arrangement and we're both pragmatic about that. Did we care about each other? Sure. We had heaps in common and the chemistry was off the charts. Do I miss him? Yeah. But given his wife is suspicious it's stupid of us to continue. It's done. We were both clear about the nature of our arrangement at the outset and neither of us moved the goal posts. Define it? You already did. What you said in your post, and what you have said before actually: "Not attached". I certainly could not say that about either of the two A's I was involved in. I can't imagine just having "heaps in common" and "chemistry was off the charts". If that were the only criteria I would not be on this forum today. Lots easier to be "pragmatic" about things when you do not have that intense emotional attachment. But it's great that you were both upfront about the end game and not moving the goal posts. 2
Lurkeraspect Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Of course. Some MM do and some MM don't. I think some/all have a conscience when faced with the reality of being busted and losing what they hold near and dear, mainly their wife and family. Witnessed here, daily. Does anyone have a conscience? Some do, some don't. 1
Lurkeraspect Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Define it? You already did. What you said in your post, and what you have said before actually: "Not attached". I certainly could not say that about either of the two A's I was involved in. I can't imagine just having "heaps in common" and "chemistry was off the charts". If that were the only criteria I would not be on this forum today. Lots easier to be "pragmatic" about things when you do not have that intense emotional attachment. But it's great that you were both upfront about the end game and not moving the goal posts. Sassy is one of the few OW I could/can identify with. She knew what the game was and when things potentially spiraled out of control, it ended. Not many weepy, months/years of angst in her posts. To me, if you're set on entering into an affair, her POV is probably the healthiest; for the cheater anyway.
Hope Shimmers Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Sassy is one of the few OW I could/can identify with. She knew what the game was and when things potentially spiraled out of control, it ended. Not many weepy, months/years of angst in her posts. To me, if you're set on entering into an affair, her POV is probably the healthiest; for the cheater anyway. Yeah, and that's pretty easy to do if you aren't emotionally involved. I guess some A's are like that - planned out and to meet a specific physical need. And I guess that is a desire of some people, but it doesn't describe most affairs. And along those lines, most people don't plan affairs so they are not "set on entering into an affair". But yeah, if you are in that category, then Sassy's situation is great. Affairs are relationships and people fall in love and get emotionally attached for the most part. Just like when other relationships end, it's difficult. Maybe even more difficult! So that's why we are all whiny and crying and weeping. Trust me, we don't do it just to annoy you. 5
Sassy Girl Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Yeah, and that's pretty easy to do if you aren't emotionally involved. I guess some A's are like that - planned out and to meet a specific physical need. And I guess that is a desire of some people, but it doesn't describe most affairs. And along those lines, most people don't plan affairs so they are not "set on entering into an affair". But yeah, if you are in that category, then Sassy's situation is great. Affairs are relationships and people fall in love and get emotionally attached for the most part. Just like when other relationships end, it's difficult. Maybe even more difficult! So that's why we are all whiny and crying and weeping. Trust me, we don't do it just to annoy you. My affair wasn't "planned out". We started getting close and once we acknowledged we were crossing lines and in affair territory we had a discussion. Before it turned physical. We communicated. We didn't avoid the elephant in the room. We were realistic about our situations. We addressed it. And made a conscious choice. And agreed. Everyone who enters an affair doesn't start out madly in love and emotionally attached. You know you're crossing lines before it gets to that point. But rather then address it and define what your relationship will be you go headling into and make a bunch of assumptions. And for the single OW this becomes more pronounced. As I said, there WERE emotions. We did define it as a relationship. But we kept them in check. We cared about each other. A lot. I don't care if it fits into your definition of what was appropriate for a "normal" affair (whatever the hell that is). At the end of the day, he was married, I knew it, he was not going to change it, and I was ok with that. He definitely met my emotional needs too. But I was realistic about the situation and didn't let myself get attached. He wasn't mine. Edited August 6, 2015 by Sassy Girl 1
Hope Shimmers Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 My affair wasn't "planned out". We started getting close and once we acknowledged we were crossing lines and in affair territory we had a discussion. Before it turned physical. We communicated. We didn't avoid the elephant in the room. We were realistic about our situations. We addressed it. And made a conscious choice. And agreed. Everyone who enters an affair doesn't start out madly in love and emotionally attached. You know you're crossing lines before it gets to that point. But rather then address it and define what your relationship will be you go headling into and make a bunch of assumptions. And for the single OW this becomes more pronounced. As I said, there WERE emotions. We did define it as a relationship. But we kept them in check. We cared about each other. A lot. I don't care if it fits into your definition of what was appropriate for a "normal" affair (whatever the hell that is). At the end of the day, he was married, I knew it, he was not going to change it, and I was ok with that. He definitely met my emotional needs too. But I was realistic about the situation and didn't let myself get attached. He wasn't mine. Good for you. I did get attached. And I let myself do that because at the time I DID believe that these men didn't belong to someone else. If I had believed otherwise then there was no way in hell that I would have ever had an affair in the first place. 5
Sassy Girl Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Good for you. I did get attached. And I let myself do that because at the time I DID believe that these men didn't belong to someone else. If I had believed otherwise then there was no way in hell that I would have ever had an affair in the first place. Your first affair? Absolutely. Your second. You knew. 1
Hope Shimmers Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Your first affair? Absolutely. Your second. You knew. I believed what I was told. But yes, I knew, and realized that at the end. Hard lesson, and it hurts. 2
kieraglass Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 For myself, I couldn't have continued on in my A if I never became emotionally attached. When I look back at those first two months, before it hammered me upside the head, looking at him lying in my arms one day, that i was in love with him... Well, I wish I ran, in those two months. I wish LIKE HELL. Affairs are huge paradigms of the whole "hindsight is twenty twenty " thing. It's craziness. 1
Southern Sun Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 I walked into an affair without a gun to my head (though I WAS highly persuaded!), with a man who didn't belong to me when I belonged to someone else AND became extremely emotionally attached. How stupid is that?! On top of it all, he was master freakin puppeteer! Awesome. I don't know where my exMM's conscience went.
Hope Shimmers Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 I have absolutely NO idea what I saw in these men. None.
Poppy47 Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 I have absolutely NO idea what I saw in these men. None. Shimmer, I have no idea why I used to hang off MM's every word and thought. It has all faded into nothing... thank God. Poppy.
Poppy47 Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 MM was the greatest liar and most of all to himself. He made up a story for himself.... that he didn't mean to fall in love with me but he did. Once that happened, he just couldn't stop seeing me. IN that wonderful state called hindsight, I think it was his way of justifying himself. The story was always the same, verbatim for 7 years. It also included "I would love to be with you full time if I could but I can't.... I have a duty to stay married forever". If ever I pointed out that these were conflicting he would shut down totally. Conflict avoidance. Did he have a conscience... a man who would spend his every wedding anniversary with me???? ( I didn't know until later) I doubt it. I think he was damaged in his early years beyond being helped and had no real empathy for anybody. He was a fake person. Poppy. 1
BROKENOW Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Yes my Mm had a conscience... Hé went back out of GUILT. He was a coward.
cocorico Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 Do MM have a conscious? Do they ever feel bad about the pain and agony they cause the OW? How about the pain and agony they cause their spouses/families? I know there are MM on this forum..I wanna know the real deal. Do any of them care at all? Or... Is it just when they get caught? I'm interested to know what thoughts and feelings go through their minds...especially if they are deliberately lying to the OW and future faking. Firstly, not all MM are the same. Some may well "not have consciences", some may be adept at suppressing theirs, others less so, and some may be completely hobbled by conflict as a result of the conscience plaguing them. Some lie and "future fake", others believe what they promise but are ultimately unable to deliver on it, some promise and do deliver, and others don't promise anything - and either still deliver, or don't. Many don't get caught. Some do, and feel bad. Others do, and don't feel bad. Some disclose, and feel bad. Others disclose and feel relief. Most have at least some way of rationalising at least some of the pain they are causing their BS, and their AP, or they would not be able to engage in an A at all, but often that becomes unsustainable and either leads to a DDay, or the ending of the A without a DDay, or the ending of the M without a DDay. My H certainly felt conflict during the A, which was why he spoke to his kids and asked their views about leaving the BW, and why he acted on it with such alacrity when they gave their blessing. 1
cocorico Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 Yes my Mm had a conscience... Hé went back out of GUILT. He was a coward. It sounds as though he has left both women (OW and BW) unhappy. If he had a conscience, surely that would be what he was trying to avoid (or minimise)?
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