salparadise Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 When you don't feel GREAT around a man, then it's a big indication that he's not going to make you happy. And when a woman actually believes that her happiness is the man's responsibility... she ain't never going to be happy, and neither is he. 2
RoseVille Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Told him yesterday I didn't feel like making food today. So we went out instead. I told him that it's been one month and I felt that sometimes he could be more thoughtful and considerate. I told him how his comment about my tummy was not cool and it actually really hurt. He knows that it was a bad comment from my reaction last time and he looked really ashamed. And I brought up the fact that my friend offered me water whilst he had not and drank it all. he said sorry he was a bad boyfriend. He felt pretty crappy afterwards. I told him that when he came over I usually take 4 hours to make the food, buy the food and tidy up the house. He said he knows and actually he does wish I wouldn't spend so much effort to make it and he does want to help but it's just all done by the time he arrives (I just want to make it first so I don't look like really sweaty and a mess in the kitchen) he told me next time just start cooking when he is there and he will help as much as possible. He said that he really likes me. I told him that strangers give me more compliments than he does and it would be nice if I got some compliments at home. He agreed that sometimes he can be thoughtless and actually his parents used to complain a lot how he wasn't considerate. He said maybe because he was the youngest in the family he always got away with a lot. I asked him about his previous relationships. He said he has had 4 girlfriends none of which lasted more than one year. He broke up with them for various reasons like LDR, or just not the right girl, or for going behind his back. He asked me about my ex and I told him that he had been the most amazing and wonderful boyfriend you could have asked for (which is true) and he felt kind of bad. I told him my ex used to treat me like a queen and was very considerate. I was this close to calling it a day. But I felt better that I got it off my chest. I will try again for another week or so. But I will still have my options open I guess Yeah, call it a day. This guy is unable to live up to your expectations. And I don't think it was fair or helpful to your relationship to tell him the bolded. People aren't motivated by comparison like that.
RoseVille Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 And when a woman actually believes that her happiness is the man's responsibility... she ain't never going to be happy, and neither is he. Absolutely true.
regine_phalange Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 And when a woman actually believes that her happiness is the man's responsibility... she ain't never going to be happy, and neither is he. I hear this theory all the time. Happiness IS affected by the people we let in in our lives. Friends and lovers alike. Spend 2 years in isolation and then come tell me whether you feel happy. Or worse, spend 2 years with people who make you uneasy and come tell me whether you feel happy. 2
salparadise Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 I think this is just a couple of socially inept people bitching about scorecards at two months. Both are focused on what they're getting. Yea, he's clueless but she's not exactly a savant. Entitlement is unattractive - period. 1
smackie9 Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 It's not entitlement....it's EXPECTATIONS. And yes we all have them....just that people don't seem to clue in that if their expectations are not being fulfilled that they feel they should stick around, and expect things to change when they should be shoving off and go sail to a different dock.
salparadise Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 It's not entitlement....it's EXPECTATIONS. And yes we all have them....just that people don't seem to clue in that if their expectations are not being fulfilled that they feel they should stick around, and expect things to change when they should be shoving off and go sail to a different dock. In this context entitlement simply means unrealistic expectations with an attitude of right or privilege. But yea, expectation is always an interesting part of the dance in dating. Too high and they're never fulfilled; too low and we get treated like doormats and taken for granted. Too narrow or ineffectively communicated and we're impossible to please despite the other person's best effort. It's important to be realistic and communicate... and to make the effort to understand the other's expectations without assuming too much. 1
JulesB Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 Too early to tell at this point for sure! At least he is not relying on you to pay for the majority of stuff and seems appreciative. If you enjoy his company and are getting on well then it's all worth it!
Ruby Slippers Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 I think you can do way better than this guy. Is this really the best you think you can do?
fitnessfan365 Posted August 6, 2015 Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) I think you can do way better than this guy. Is this really the best you think you can do? Since you don't know anything else about their relationship, this statement really bugged me. There's many other aspects to how a man is in a relationship besides how he uses his wallet. What if he's faithful, communicates well, is supportive and a good listener, good in bed, etc..? She could take your advice based solely on him not paying 100% of the time and wind up meeting a guy that does who treats her like crap. By her own admission he actually does contribute more than his fair share financially. He just expects her to actually chip in because they're in a relationship which involves two people. Plus, I feel that some women don't take the financial burden that dating can put on a man into consideration. For example - in my area, a one bedroom apartment is $1600-2000 per month and two bedrooms ranging as high as $2500-3000 per month. There are also many other living expenses as well. So all of a sudden when a guy starts having to constantly pay for meals out, entertainment, trips, etc...it can REALLY ad up. That's why it's selfish as hell if a woman actually expects a guy to take on 100% of all the dating costs while in a relationship. I mean it's not like we all have money trees growing somewhere. Now maybe I could see your side if they were married w-kids, and she was a stay at home mom. But that isn't the case. They're a couple in a regular relationship and her expectations should hold to that IMO. I am glad she told him her exs treated her like a queen. Notice the part in bold. They may have treated her like a queen but they're all still exes aren't they? Putting a woman on a pedestal and giving her the "queen" treatment doesn't automatically mean it will make her truly happy. Now I can't speak for women obviously. But wouldn't a woman be happier w-a guy that doesn't feel the need to buy her affection, that gets to know her for her, and treats her like a regular person w-general respect? This need to try and constantly impress a woman comes off more like a facade than anything else. Edited August 7, 2015 by fitnessfan365 2
h0000 Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Since you don't know anything else about their relationship, this statement really bugged me. There's many other aspects to how a man is in a relationship besides how he uses his wallet. What if he's faithful, communicates well, is supportive and a good listener, good in bed, etc..? She could take your advice based solely on him not paying 100% of the time and wind up meeting a guy that does who treats her like crap. By her own admission he actually does contribute more than his fair share financially. He just expects her to actually chip in because they're in a relationship which involves two people. Plus, I feel that some women don't take the financial burden that dating can put on a man into consideration. For example - in my area, a one bedroom apartment is $1600-2000 per month and two bedrooms ranging as high as $2500-3000 per month. There are also many other living expenses as well. So all of a sudden when a guy starts having to constantly pay for meals out, entertainment, trips, etc...it can REALLY ad up. That's why it's selfish as hell if a woman actually expects a guy to take on 100% of all the dating costs while in a relationship. I mean it's not like we all have money trees growing somewhere. Now maybe I could see your side if they were married w-kids, and she was a stay at home mom. But that isn't the case. They're a couple in a regular relationship and her expectations should hold to that IMO. Women shouldnt expect the guy to pay 100%. It's fair to share but the guy in OP sounds a little calculating and it's off-putting. Like he knows how much he has spent, he knows when it's her turn, and he is unwilling to give unless she paid last time. I guess he gives himself a $30 per month taxi allowance to her place and once it reaches the limit he won't go visit her anymore? Maybe he is not "cheap" but he is certainly not generous.
RoseVille Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Women shouldnt expect the guy to pay 100%. It's fair to share but the guy in OP sounds a little calculating and it's off-putting. Like he knows how much he has spent, he knows when it's her turn, and he is unwilling to give unless she paid last time. I guess he gives himself a $30 per month taxi allowance to her place and once it reaches the limit he won't go visit her anymore? Maybe he is not "cheap" but he is certainly not generous. I agree with you, but I think the same about the OP as well. They're both keeping score. 1
fitnessfan365 Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Women shouldnt expect the guy to pay 100%. It's fair to share but the guy in OP sounds a little calculating and it's off-putting. Like he knows how much he has spent, he knows when it's her turn, and he is unwilling to give unless she paid last time. I guess he gives himself a $30 per month taxi allowance to her place and once it reaches the limit he won't go visit her anymore? Maybe he is not "cheap" but he is certainly not generous. This is fair. I agree that it shouldn't be about keeping a score card. I know it means more to me when my GF is generous and it's spontaneous. It's funny because I actually do enjoy taking care of the woman in my life and paying a good portion of the time. That dynamic is actually a huge turn on to me. But when some women expect a guy they don't have kids with and aren't married to, to "provide" for them in a regular dating relationship, it makes me see red. This "it's how I was raised" nonsense is creative marketing on being a freeloader. Then if a guy in this scenario finally gets tired of always paying and brings it up, suddenly he's "cheap" even though she's the one never spending money. A lot of double standards in dating and not just on the female side of the equation. 1
Ruby Slippers Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Since you don't know anything else about their relationship, this statement really bugged me. There's many other aspects to how a man is in a relationship besides how he uses his wallet. What if he's faithful, communicates well, is supportive and a good listener, good in bed, etc..? He's obviously cheap and stingy, but the real rub was all of this: 1) He has never complimented me except that 'you look nice'. 2) He once said to me if I toned up my belly I would be sexier (I am already very slim and don't have much belly at all) he said it would be nice if I had a six pack. This is coming from someone who does have a belly. This was when we were making out. 3) He never offered me water at this event. He was thirsty, he bought water and drank it all himself. And in the past I have always bought him water or shared mine. 4) He lets me hold the basket of heavy groceries if we go shopping- and these are HIS groceries. 5) the first few times I cooked, he didn't say it was good, he had a few criticisms where it could have been better. 6) he has never tried to treat me or surprise me (we have only dated for two months so it's pretty early still) 7) It took him until the 8th date to kiss me. 8) He never dresses up for me or for dates. Always wears t shirts and shorts. He is not young btw. 9) he gets me to pick the restaurant each time because he forgets to find one. 10) he doesn't help me wash the dishes after I cook. He leaves them in the sink or he will help out initially and then when I come over he leaves them for me to do. 11) He doesn't eat carbs or a lot of sugar. If I want to eat them he will say 'that's a lot of carbs, no?' i have a healthy approach to meals and eat very healthily but he will criticise me if I'm eating too much cabbage for example because these are carbs. He's stingy with compliments, criticizes her body (even though he's not in shape himself), stingy with water, lets his woman carry his basket of groceries around (that's about as loser and deadbeat as a man can get), criticizes her cooking, never treats her, never makes an effort to look nice for her, never does the work of finding and choosing a restaurant, doesn't even have the courtesy to help with the dishes after she spends hours cooking for him, criticizes her for the way she eats. This guy is basically a lazy, stingy, rude, insensitive bum. The real question is why firefly is wasting her time with this loser. 7
sweeeeetie82 Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Way too early to tell if he's cheap or not. Maybe he's having some financial issues. Take the time to find out more...especially at the beginning of the relationship.
smackie9 Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 He's obviously cheap and stingy, but the real rub was all of this: He's stingy with compliments, criticizes her body (even though he's not in shape himself), stingy with water, lets his woman carry his basket of groceries around (that's about as loser and deadbeat as a man can get), criticizes her cooking, never treats her, never makes an effort to look nice for her, never does the work of finding and choosing a restaurant, doesn't even have the courtesy to help with the dishes after she spends hours cooking for him, criticizes her for the way she eats. This guy is basically a lazy, stingy, rude, insensitive bum. The real question is why firefly is wasting her time with this loser. And this is what I mean by expectations....to be treated properly in a relationship......not being ENTITLED has in being showered in jewelry, gifts and lots of free dinners.
MissBee Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) My boyfriend and I have been together for 2 months now. Sometimes he wants to hang out at my place and I make dinner. This happens about once a week. I buy the groceries for that meal, which can cost up to $15 per person for that meal. Once a week we also eat out, and this we either split the bill or we choose to take turns paying. Last time we went out he paid for the dinner. Today we went out. I called for the check and I went to the bathroom. When I got back, the check was still on the table, unpaid. He asks me whether I wanted to split the bill? I said its okay, I'll pay this time. He seemed pretty happy with that. And I am sure he will pay for it next time. But it seems to me the most polite way would have been to settle the bill himself whilst I was in the bathroom? That's what I would have done. Especially because I had just cooked him dinner a few nights ago, and that wasn't cheap and it took a lot of effort. He does get me presents sometimes and he does bring some wine over sometimes and pays for the taxis a few times. You can know if someone is cheap upon meeting them once, I'm not sure why people are making this out to be something that takes months and months to figure out. Cheapness is an attitude and it's easy to spot. Him not settling the check while you were away and wanting to always split the bill is cheap in my book. It shows a lack of generosity and a tit for tat kind of attitude where you are generally miserly and stingy. It has nothing to do with exactly how much money you have or don't have as rich people can be cheap and miserly while poor people can be giving and generous. It's about the attitude of stinginess versus generosity and not a monetary situation. For example, I've never split the check with a bf. Alternate paying yes, but we aren't friends, only with friends do I split the check and even with friends, depending on the cost of the meal I might treat them. With a bf splitting the check is so bizarre to me and anyone who wants to do that is cheap. Likewise, he could have paid while you were away and then simply said " I have it this time, you get it next time" no big deal. The fact that he was going to wait until you got back to split it or see if you'd pay is cheap. This guy sounds cheap and you can try to wait and see but I'd wager that you'll only get more confirmation, not less. Edited August 7, 2015 by MissBee 2
Els Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Told him yesterday I didn't feel like making food today. So we went out instead. I told him that it's been one month and I felt that sometimes he could be more thoughtful and considerate. I told him how his comment about my tummy was not cool and it actually really hurt. He knows that it was a bad comment from my reaction last time and he looked really ashamed. And I brought up the fact that my friend offered me water whilst he had not and drank it all. he said sorry he was a bad boyfriend. He felt pretty crappy afterwards. I told him that when he came over I usually take 4 hours to make the food, buy the food and tidy up the house. He said he knows and actually he does wish I wouldn't spend so much effort to make it and he does want to help but it's just all done by the time he arrives (I just want to make it first so I don't look like really sweaty and a mess in the kitchen) he told me next time just start cooking when he is there and he will help as much as possible. He said that he really likes me. I told him that strangers give me more compliments than he does and it would be nice if I got some compliments at home. He agreed that sometimes he can be thoughtless and actually his parents used to complain a lot how he wasn't considerate. He said maybe because he was the youngest in the family he always got away with a lot. I asked him about his previous relationships. He said he has had 4 girlfriends none of which lasted more than one year. He broke up with them for various reasons like LDR, or just not the right girl, or for going behind his back. He asked me about my ex and I told him that he had been the most amazing and wonderful boyfriend you could have asked for (which is true) and he felt kind of bad. I told him my ex used to treat me like a queen and was very considerate. I was this close to calling it a day. But I felt better that I got it off my chest. I will try again for another week or so. But I will still have my options open I guess I think it's great that you managed to talk about it and that he appears to be seeing sense (for now). Even if this R doesn't work out, learning to assert your boundaries and stand up for what you need is an extremely important skill. You do also have to learn to pick your battles, but this particular battle is a good one to pick IMO. DON'T 'have your options open' while in a R with this guy though! That's not ethical and not fair. If you want to date other guys, break up with him first.
guest569 Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Come on fitness fan, no one is saying that men need to pay 100% of everything. But neither should the women. That is the problem here, OP is paying more than her share and this guy is getting a free ride. A 40 yr old man sitting there letting her pay the entire bill much of the time and never offering to cook for her or clean up.
salparadise Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Women shouldnt expect the guy to pay 100%. It's fair to share but... Come on fitness fan, no one is saying that men need to pay 100% of everything. But neither should the women. That is the problem here, OP is paying more than her share and this guy is getting a free ride. A 40 yr old man sitting there letting her pay the entire bill much of the time and never offering to cook for her or clean up. Well, I wouldn't say nobody. There are definitely women who expect 100 percent and would be aghast if a man acceded to her offer to contribute, and there are more who view covering the tip, buying a drink or chipping in a token amount just to say they contributed as perfectly equitable. And the rationale never ceases to amaze me (biology, historical wage disparity, the high cost of makeup). And yes, of course there are some with no attitude of entitlement at all, meaning their perspective is one of true equality, without any creative with logic or math. It's no less ironic than a slave-holder authoring the Declaration of Independence, and perhaps as many as half of the signers as well. People just have this strange ability to contort simple logic, ethics, and word definitions to justify whatever benefits them. It all boils down to delusion with respect to virtue. If one can convince him/herself that they are more virtuous, there is no limit to what else can be rationalized. 1
Lois_Griffin Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 I told him that when he came over I usually take 4 hours to make the food, buy the food and tidy up the house. He said he knows and actually he does wish I wouldn't spend so much effort to make it and he does want to help but it's just all done by the time he arrives (I just want to make it first so I don't look like really sweaty and a mess in the kitchen) he told me next time just start cooking when he is there and he will help as much as possible. I have a better suggestion. How about he drags his lazy ass to the store instead where he picks up and PAYS for the groceries for dinner, then brings them to your place and you cook it together? Does he really think showing up at your place - after you've already done the shopping and paid for it - and chopping up some tomatoes and onions for the salad is contributing 50%? As if.
salparadise Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 I have a better suggestion. How about he drags his lazy ass to the store instead where he picks up and PAYS for the groceries for dinner, then brings them to your place and you cook it together? Does he really think showing up at your place - after you've already done the shopping and paid for it - and chopping up some tomatoes and onions for the salad is contributing 50%? As if. Lois Griffin is my favorite- nearly every time I post an idea about gender issues that I expect will be vehemently contested, Lois rides in and neutralizes the opposition. Thank you, sugga!
Keenly Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 Talk about a mountain out of a molehill. Either marry an ATM, or learn to let things go.
elaine567 Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 I had a bf once who split everything right down the centre, we were both students and it seemed to me perfectly sensible to split the bills for eating out. He was not cheap, nor took me for granted, nor criticised me for not living up to his expectations nor told me what to do either. We both went out, bought the groceries, and cooked eating at home meals together. He wasn't selfish in any way, and it was probably one of the best relationships, I have ever been in. Unfortunately I was just an idiotic 20 something and I dumped him for some bozo... So, it is not just about who pays, it is about being respected and I do not think Firefly1 felt respected by this guy. I hope he can change.
Keenly Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 I hope he can change. That's what it comes down to for her. Isn't it. She doesn't like it, therefore he must change. Some how she doesn't have to change, even though she is the one with the problem, but he needs to conform to her will, you know... To make her happy. Because who cares about him.
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