opposite sex friendships.

[hotpotato]

Truth be told, I think it's somewhat "pathetic" that just because there is attraction you can't be friends.

 

I had a pretty big crush on a real close female friend when I was a senior in high school. We hung out all the time and she was one of the coolest girls I have ever met. She was pretty flirty too, but in a natural way, if you know what I mean. She had a bf though at the time. But I had absolutely no problem just being friends, enjoyed her company, and over 20 years later, we are STILL friends.

 

How many guys are sexually attracted to a woman but satisfied with being just friends? I havent met them...

[KungFuJoe]

How many guys are sexually attracted to a woman but satisfied with being just friends? I havent met them...

 

Maybe it's just me but when I like someone I'm not thinking "damn I wanna hit that." I'm thinking, "damn I wanna spend more time with her and get to know her better."

 

So yeah, in that sense, I'm satisfied with just being friends.

[Els]

How many guys are sexually attracted to a woman but satisfied with being just friends? I havent met them...

 

How many people have you even MET, fullstop?

[hotpotato]

Yeah...I put pathetic in quotes because I knew it wasn't the right word to use.

 

I guess I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to me...at all.

 

I mean, just because you really like someone you can't enjoy their company? For me, it makes sense that my friends would have qualities I'm attracted to. The difference between a friend and a "partner" is that special "something".

 

There is a space in between friend and partner-fwb. A lot of times this is what a man means when he says to be friends. Other times he wants to date, but hes not as straightforward as other guys.

If men in general were so fine with just being friends being friendzoned wouldnt be an issue. A lot of times sexual attraction gets in the way.

 

No one said you cant enjoy and like them.

[sdraw108]

I didnt say it included all men. I gave exceptions, please read my post.

 

Your exceptions were where the female is drastically older than the guy, or where the guy is gay Neither one of them covers me (which is why I mentioned age gaps in my response).

[tbf]

I want to highlight this word because I think this is a problem that most people face.

 

They look at interacting with the opposite sex as SOLELY for the purpose of meeting a potential partner...whether it's for something serious or casual.

In this, I'm so with you except I'd word it as being on the prowl all the time. It's the utilitarian approach where people are viewing others as potential for use or not. Add in the gender role binary where people are forced into segregated hobbies and you end up with the godawful mess of being incapable of person to person socializing without the flehman response.

 

And even if you find the other person attractive, can't people hold onto their boundaries, zippers and panties closed and on? OMG, must drop my panties, must unzip!

[sdraw108]

If men in general were so fine with just being friends being friendzoned wouldnt be an issue. A lot of times sexual attraction gets in the way.

 

That's completely different. You're talking about a guy who starts out with attraction to a girl, and then gets disappointed when he's friendzoned. Kind of an obvious reaction really. But what does it have to do with being friends with someone where dating wasn't the initial objective, or where a first date lacked chemistry for both sides?

 

Do you think that I (or men in general) want to get into bed with every single girl they go on a first date with, from online dating for example? Surely you must be aware that sometimes the chemistry is missing. In that scenario, what's to prevent a friendship forming? I have two good female friends from that exact situation, and one of them I'm close with (in the sense that we can talk about just about anything).

[Simon Phoenix]

Maybe it's just me but when I like someone I'm not thinking "damn I wanna hit that." I'm thinking, "damn I wanna spend more time with her and get to know her better."

 

So yeah, in that sense, I'm satisfied with just being friends.

 

I definitely feel you on this. But these are the women that I tend to fall for. And once that happens, it's hard to put humpty-dumpty back together again.

[Simon Phoenix]

That's completely different. You're talking about a guy who starts out with attraction to a girl, and then gets disappointed when he's friendzoned. Kind of an obvious reaction really. But what does it have to do with being friends with someone where dating wasn't the initial objective, or where a first date lacked chemistry for both sides?

 

Do you think that I (or men in general) want to get into bed with every single girl they go on a first date with, from online dating for example? Surely you must be aware that sometimes the chemistry is missing. In that scenario, what's to prevent a friendship forming? I have two good female friends from that exact situation, and one of them I'm close with (in the sense that we can talk about just about anything).

 

Typically if I go out on a date with a girl, I want to sleep with her. Otherwise, why would I be on a date?

[hotpotato]

That's completely different. You're talking about a guy who starts out with attraction to a girl, and then gets disappointed when he's friendzoned. Kind of an obvious reaction really. But what does it have to do with being friends with someone where dating wasn't the initial objective, or where a first date lacked chemistry for both sides?

 

Do you think that I (or men in general) want to get into bed with every single girl they go on a first date with, from online dating for example? Surely you must be aware that sometimes the chemistry is missing. In that scenario, what's to prevent a friendship forming? I have two good female friends from that exact situation, and one of them I'm close with (in the sense that we can talk about just about anything).

 

Men often pick women friends they are sexually attracted to. Which really it doesnt take much for a man to be attracted to a female. Much of the time a man is going to have somekind of attraction to her from the get go even if he agrees to be friends. He doesnt have to go on any kind of date with her to feel attraction then end up in the friendzone.

 

I never said dating is always the objective. Sometimes fwb is the objective which once again that is more than being just friends.

 

I dont recall mentioning chemistry or saying anything about first dates. The topic is "Can men and women just be friends?" Im saying no, not most of the time.

 

I think ive found the problem. You may need chemistry to have sex with someone. A lot of people in general do not. A lot of men especially do not need to feel chemistry. He might l ok e her on some level. There is not much if any chemistry but she would be still doable.

 

As for OLD it has definitely been my experience that men want the sex and also want the sex ASAP. If a man picks a womans profile he probably wants to have sex with her and will if the opportunity arises. Even if there is no chemistry he will often still push for sex. Even if he saus they should be friends what he means is shes not dating material but he wants to hit that . In short, for most guys, the answer would be YES.

[sdraw108]

Typically if I go out on a date with a girl, I want to sleep with her. Otherwise, why would I be on a date?

 

I was referring to going on a date, and realising during the course of the date that there is no chemistry. My example was within the context of online dating - you can't possibly know you're attracted to a girl you've never met, until you've met them.

 

Plus, not all guys are just interested in sex. For me, I'm much more interested in relationships than just sex - so there needs to be more than mere physical attraction for me to want to pursue further dates.

[sdraw108]

I think ive found the problem. You may need chemistry to have sex with someone. A lot of people in general do not. A lot of men especially do not need to feel chemistry.

 

Yeah, I could see this maybe being the case (and see my post above). However, like the other person who started off with the "it's impossible" myth, you've now acknowledged that there are men for whom it is possible to be just friends with a girl, without needing a silly exception like the man being gay, or the woman being twice his age.

 

So once again, my point is, it comes down to a matter of trust. If you trust your SO, you shouldn't have a problem with him having female friends. Conversely, if you have a problem with it, you don't trust him.

[hotpotato]

I was referring to going on a date, and realising during the course of the date that there is no chemistry. My example was within the context of online dating - you can't possibly know you're attracted to a girl you've never met, until you've met them.

 

Plus, not all guys are just interested in sex. For me, I'm much more interested in relationships than just sex - so there needs to be more than mere physical attraction for me to want to pursue further dates.

 

You may not become attracted to people over the www, but plenty of people can be. My ex jumped from an ldr from me to an ldr with another woman who he has most likely hadny met in person. Unless he was doing some serious magic time management he did not meet her in person before they started dating.

 

If people couldnt be attracted to each other over the www there wouldnt be online porn, aff, sexy webcams, or even oine dating. You pick someones profile because on some level you are attracted to them.

[hotpotato]

Yeah, I could see this maybe being the case (and see my post above). However, like the other person who started off with the "it's impossible" myth, you've now acknowledged that there are men for whom it is possible to be just friends with a girl, without needing a silly exception like the man being gay, or the woman being twice his age.

 

So once again, my point is, it comes down to a matter of trust. If you trust your SO, you shouldn't have a problem with him having female friends. Conversely, if you have a problem with it, you don't trust him.

 

I didnt say impossible, I said very uncommon and unusual esp for women of childbearing age and hetero men. My exceptions arent silly or unrealistic. Why do you think gay guy friends are so popular with girls?

 

Even if you are the exception, you still dont prove the rule.

[John316C]

of course they can be friends. there r many types of social interactions.

[Simon Phoenix]

I was referring to going on a date, and realising during the course of the date that there is no chemistry. My example was within the context of online dating - you can't possibly know you're attracted to a girl you've never met, until you've met them.

 

Plus, not all guys are just interested in sex. For me, I'm much more interested in relationships than just sex - so there needs to be more than mere physical attraction for me to want to pursue further dates.

 

Sure you can. If they have a hot picture you can definitely be attracted to them. I'd say most men don't need "chemistry" to be sexually attracted to a woman and act on it. I'd say among men I've met and studied (was a psych major in college), you would be the minority and have a more woman-like view on love and attraction. Not that there's anything wrong with that at all -- the more variety the better.

[marcjb]

This is connected to some of my previous posts and my own experiences in my past relationship, but I will give the gist of things here.

 

My now ex fiancé went back to college to get her masters degree around a year and a half into our three year relationship. She is now 34 and I am 31. She ended up making a new guy friend who was 40 (now 41). When it came time for her internship (teaching). Both of them ended up interning at the same school at the beginning of the year.

 

We broke up about a month ago now because she would not compromise on anything with me regarding the situation. The deal breaker for me was that she told me that they would usually walk to the train together after work. It would either be her meeting up with him in his class room asking if he was ready to walk, or him texting her asking if she was ready to walk. She told me this herself. I found it rather odd considering that I'm sure neither of them finished getting their classrooms back in order at the end of the day at the same times. The school is also in between two different train stops that could be taken. Each way is probably a 15 minute walk.

 

I knew that this guy liked her in a non-platonic way even if she only liked him in a platonic way simply from the few times I met him, and from the text message where he was "joking" about him asking her "who's that handsome guy?" in the photo which she took of him reading a poem to the kids in her class when she had a poetry reading for the kids, which she had guest speakers who were faculty.

 

Now, even taking this into consideration I would have continued to give her the benefit of the doubt if one thing didn't happen in our relationship. Back in October, she told me that she didn't feel the same way about me. The typical "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" line. This set of warning bells for me and made me re-analyze all of the red flags that I let go, and gave her the benefit of the doubt on in our relationship. She initially wanted to take a break, but then withdrew the request on a Monday, there was just too much tension from the situation (she felt weird kissing me), so on that Wednesday I said no, I think it is a good idea if we take a break for a week. So, we took a break for a week, and then after the week, we went on some dates, and I moved back in after another week or so. There was still tension, but towards the end of December she made the decision that she really wanted to have us work.

 

Now, here are some of the red flags I had originally let go:

 

- At the beginning of our relationship, I noticed that she only had male friends. I confronted her regarding two of these friends around 6 months into our relationship. She ended up admitting that she was with each of these friends once before (with each of them a week before we met). I told her that I couldn't believe she would actually introduce me to guys that she was with before, and she ended up agreeing to cut contact with me.

 

- The engagement ring was a family heirloom. She told me that she did not want to wear it to work because the kids were "always grabbing at her" or something along those lines. She was afraid of it either getting damaged from this, or stolen from when she was riding the train. She basically only wore it if we went on a date. The very last time we went on a date, she didn't wear it. I don't know if she just forgot, or what… but I felt slighted and I already brought it up a few times and didn't want to bring it up again. That last weekend we were together, I was actually pulling away, and she was the best she has been with me since our break.

 

- She was emailing and texting with this guy. I never saw the texts until I recently confronted her and asked her to see them. She showed me the texts, but they were only from a day or so, she deleted the rest because she said keeping texts "makes her phone slow" (she has a Samsung Galaxy), and that she only saves all of the texts from me. She would not show me the emails. She has always kept passwords on all of her devices from the beginning of our relationship. I didn't really care because I didn't want to snoop anyway. I figured I would ask her if I ever wanted to see anything like this scenario. There were a few instances where she did go through my stuff, but I told her it was ok, and I never kept passwords on my things.

 

- The first time I met the guy friend, it was when he invited us to a cookout he was having around July last year. She seems rather distant from me.

 

- She told me after our break that she did confide in this guy about times she was not happy with our relationship, times that I never even knew about until we talked after our break.

 

- She ended up telling me that before class, they would study together, and get lunch together alone.

 

- I'm pretty sure she saw this guy when we were on break and he helped her with a kid's show. She claimed it was a "parent".

 

So here is my main question: How is making new friends of the opposite sex while in a relationship any different than dating, or "keeping your options open"?

 

I understand being cordial to one another, but actually getting to know a new guy or girl of the opposite sex on an emotional level… Isn't this emotional affair territory?

 

I loved this girl with all of my heart. The only issues I really had were that she initially thought it was ok to keep people in the picture that she was with before, and the other being that I don't think it was ok for her, or me to get close with another person of the opposite sex on an emotional level.

 

I think that when two people are in a relationship, it is ok to have "friends" of the opposite sex otherwise, but they end up being treated more as acquaintances than actual friends if they are not mutual for the relationship.

 

I don't understand people which have the mindset of putting friends before their significant other, or their significant other's needs and concerns. Isn't that the whole point of why they're "Significant". They should come first as long as it's a reasonable request, and especially if its a case of building / rebuilding trust. Why be in a relationship if you want to be "independent" and basically act single anyway?

 

My ex fiancé thought that I was trying to control her. I was not. There were very recent events before our breakup in which we met up with some of her other guy friends, and I let her know that I didn't have a problem with those guys at all. I thought they were cool and respectful of our relationship. It was this one guy which I've mentioned earlier that I had the problem with. I asked her if things were reversed, would she be comfortable with the situation. She admitted that should wouldn't have been, but she was "different". I told her that it was a double standard, but she didn't see it that way.

 

If there was anything that ever bothered her in the relationship, I always did what I could to make her feel comfortable. One significant examples… She also sings, and I also produce music besides my day job. One of the things she told me she was uncomfortable about early on in the relationship was that she didn't want me to work with any other female vocalists. I agree to this because I knew then that it was one of her insecurities, and the way I look at relationships is that we are here to help each other with our insecurities, not make them worse. She was more important to me than I was to her apparently. I loved her with my whole being, my heart, and soul. I honestly thought she was my soulmate.

 

She is the one that actually wanted to get married sooner. I'd say at around a year into our relationship she wanted to get married, and I told her that I did want to marry her, but felt we should wait a bit longer to get past typical relationship hurdles. I also told her that I was really never interested in getting married (I never saw the point of it), but would consider doing so for her because I knew that I wanted to spend my life with her.

 

After our break up, she did not take blame for anything or seem the least bit remorseful. It seems that she believes it was all my fault and I was just insecure and jealous. She sent me a few very nasty texts emails after our breakup. Even one to my mother saying that she thought I needed to see a therapist. Our last correspondence was me writing back to her emails pretty much saying that I was sorry for letting my jealousy get the best of me, and it's unfortunate that we can't see eye to eye with the same boundaries. That was around 3 weeks ago, and I haven't heard from her since then.

Edited May 30, 2014 by marcjb

[Mrin]

Wow. Ok. A few thoughts:

 

1. Not sure that was the most healthy relationship to begin with. Her restricting your client list based on gender is pretty nutty. Even if it was you doing the restricting - her jealousy of female vocalists is just odd. Then there is your behavior around her former guy friends. I get it but ya, lots of insecurities there.

 

2. She probably was stepping over the line with this guy. Kinda sounds like an emotional affair. Let's assume nothing happened. If he were a female you wouldn't have had a problem with it hence the subject of this thread. If you were really secure in your relationship to begin with this wouldn't have been an issue. But you weren't (see vocalists, female).

 

3. You did probably get out of hand with your jealousy. When you are reading your GF's text message history, even with her consent, you've already lost the relationship. Not real sure what you could have done differently from a tactical perspective. But what you could do differently in the future is make sure your relationship and the person with whom you are in that relationship is healthy and strong from the start.

 

4. Ya, she probably did date that guy on your break. Doesn't mean it got serious but ya, that probably did happen intentional or not.

 

So in short - to answer your question on whether or not it is ok to make friends of the opposite sex while in a relationship is that it depends on a lot of stuff but one of the biggest factors is the strength, health and trust of your relationship to begin with.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Mrin

[harrybrown]

It is good that you did not marry her.

 

The best thing to do now is to stop all contact with her.

 

Go live a good life and let her have her thing with the old guy.

 

Do the 180 and find someone new.

[marcjb]

I don't plan on contacting her. I understand that from reading just the problems in the relationship no one will understand that there were many more positives than negatives in our relationship. I don't believe in holding in anger or grudges, so if she contacted me, letting me know that she was truly interested in making things work and was willing to prove it, I would possibly consider, but I honestly doubt that is going to happen since she was never the one to hold us together if we had run into any issues.

 

It was always me being the glue. If we ever ran into issues she would always end up pulling the break up card and me trying to rationalize things. Later she admitted that she has a fear of abandonment and fears she is a failure when it comes to relationships. I always tried to comfort her and let her know I wanted to work with her and whatever struggles arise. It seems she is self sabotaging. I was always willing to work things out with her. After our break we did try counseling which she requested initially. I told her that I was fine with it. We ended up going to the initial consultation, then one session where they had interviewed us both separately. After that, she backed out and did not want to continue going.

Edited May 30, 2014 by marcjb

[pteromom]

There is nothing wrong with having or making opposite sex friends.

 

But the way your ex did it wasn't the correct way.

 

She should have been transparent in her communications with him, so you could see there was nothing going on.

 

She should NOT have told him about anything going on in your relationship. That's what old friends who know and understand you are for.

 

She should have brought you into their friendship. Rather than acting distant when around the two of you together, she should have brought you together, introduced you, and encouraged conversation.

 

She should have sometimes had you come along to lunches and dinners with him, or invited him over to your place, again to encourage your friendship with him.

 

If she had done things the right way, it wouldn't have mattered that she was friends with him.

 

Also, if she didn't want to wear the heirloom ring, you guys could have gotten a plain band so she could go into the world showing that she was engaged. Most women LOVE showing off their ring and feeling "taken", so that's a huge red flag right there.

 

I loved this girl with all of my heart. The only issues I really had were that she initially thought it was ok to keep people in the picture that she was with before, and the other being that I don't think it was ok for her, or me to get close with another person of the opposite sex on an emotional level.

No, the real issue is that she enjoyed keeping you feeling insecure. From her behavior with this friend to constantly threatening breakup. She WANTED to keep you scared, because it gave her the power in the relationship. Not a nice move, btw. You should want your SO to feel loved and safe and secure.

 

I don't understand people which have the mindset of putting friends before their significant other, or their significant other's needs and concerns. Isn't that the whole point of why they're "Significant". They should come first as long as it's a reasonable request, and especially if its a case of building / rebuilding trust. Why be in a relationship if you want to be "independent" and basically act single anyway?

Everyone is different. Some people are very satisfied in relationships where other things come first, and they come together at the end of the day (or month). The main thing is finding someone who is compatible with you.

 

If you frown on opposite-sex friendships, find a girl who feels the same way.

 

One of the things she told me she was uncomfortable about early on in the relationship was that she didn't want me to work with any other female vocalists. I agree to this because I knew then that it was one of her insecurities, and the way I look at relationships is that we are here to help each other with our insecurities, not make them worse.

She was so scared of being burned, she focused on keeping you scared of fire. She's too damaged to be ready for the relationship you want.

 

She was more important to me than I was to her apparently. I loved her with my whole being, my heart, and soul. I honestly thought she was my soulmate.

It wasn't that you weren't important to her... she was incapable of the trust and vulnerability you wanted. In 10 years, she may grow out of it, but you shouldn't wait. Go find someone who can be open and loving.

[HeartbrokenNewbie]

I think you have pretty much sussed it all out for yourself x I'm sorry x

[TB Rhine]

Chicks have male friends because they like being desired, chased about, and constantly plied with free rides, meals, coffee, etc. Steer clear of these kinds of women, as there will always (ALWAYS) be at least one other guy waiting in the wings, hoping and praying for the two of you to fail.

 

A woman who allows some other dude to follow her around like a puppy is a woman of low character. Think about what happens when she has a falling out with you and needs a place to stay, a shoulder to cry... you get the idea.

 

Bury it with a shovel, then bury the shovel.

[DKT3]

All I can say is its good you got out before you were married.

[Glinda.Good]

Chicks have male friends because they like being desired, chased about, and constantly plied with free rides, meals, coffee, etc. Steer clear of these kinds of women, as there will always (ALWAYS) be at least one other guy waiting in the wings, hoping and praying for the two of you to fail.

 

Really not true; many "chicks" have male friends for genuine reasons.

 

In a relationship boundaries need to be set and respected that are appropriate and comfortable for BOTH people. That was not happening in this scenario.