opposite sex friendships.

[sdraw108]

This will be my first new thread on here, but I've been posting for about a month now, and reading for a lot longer than that. One thing I commonly see (mostly from men) is claims along the lines of:

 

"If a man is hanging out with a girl, it's because he wants to get into her pants".

 

"Male / female platonic friendships are impossible".

 

Here's a recent example (and the one which prompted me to make this thread):

 

There are very, very, very few cases where single, heterosexual men and women can be real friends. One of three things happen, typically:

 

1.)One side falls for the other and gets shut down

2.) Both sides fall for each other and give dating a chance

3.) One side uses the other side as an ego boost/emotional outlet/someone to talk to when they're bored, etc.

 

The rarest outcome is one in which both are legit friends, set them up on dates with their other friends, have a mutual unattraction to each other, etc.

 

I'm curious, as to why people believe this kind of thing. Just to clarify, I can totally understand that there are men for whom these statements are accurate, I just don't follow how they make the leap to assuming all other men/women are the same. I personally have several satisfying and long term strictly platonic friendships with members of the opposite sex, and I can't imagine my life without them - the idea of only having male friends, and wanting to sleep with any female I get to know, seems very alien to me.

 

Furthermore, I know I am not unique or even unusual in this regard, because I have observed legitimate opposite sex friendships in all kinds of people around me, from all walks of life.

 

So - is this just men who are incapable of opposite sex friendships projecting onto other men? Or do those kind of men tend to only interact with other men who are similar to them, and have a warped view of the general population? Or is there some other reason for this that I haven't thought of?

 

Disclaimer: this post is based on the interactions of straight people (an assumption typically made by men with this viewpoint, anyway). But feel free to provide answers as they might relate to other sexual orientations. I'm particularly curious to hear views on bisexuality - do some people believe they are incapable of having friendships period (because they're attracted to both genders)?

Edited July 30, 2013 by sdraw108

[MrCastle]

Are you friends with women you want to sleep with?

[bentleychic]

I think it depends on the person/people. If there's no attraction, it's possible, but you always need to be very wary of not crossing the line. Stay away from becoming their shoulder to lean on, don't give them advice or support about relationships/marriages, not letting them be a substitute for your spouse/significant other and vice versa, etc. I have a couple of work friends of the opposite sex.

 

All of my other opposite sex friendships have ended with professions of love, trying to get in my pants or a relationship, all initiated by the man in the friendship. I'm not sure if that makes a difference, but adding that detail, anyway.

 

It is possible, but can be a very, very slippery slope.

[MrCastle]

The rarest outcome is one in which both are legit friends, set them up on dates with their other friends, have a mutual unattraction to each other, etc.

 

Yeah, it's bull. I've got a lot of female friends and I know for a fact there's no chemistry on either side. I guess it's projected by guys who can't understand that, or insecure guys who believe that any friendship between people of a different sex is going to lead to cheating.

 

So what are we here to discuss exactly?

 

Men and women can be friends if neither side likes the other romantically. I don't think there's a person on this forum who would disagree with that point.

 

That's not a discussion. Period. Or a very interesting one as everyone would be in agreement.

 

The discussion should be, can single men and women be friends if one is attracted to the other, and the other isn't -- or, can they control themselves and be friends despite both being romantically interested in each other?

 

Have you seen either of those scenarios work? Because I haven't.

 

One falls for the other, gets the "I just want to be friends" speech and one of two things happens:

 

-they take their pride and walk away

 

-they cling on with the "it's better than nothing" spiel, or pretend like they'd like to continue being friends while secretly hoping to one day hook up with them

 

In any event, it's not a "friendship." It's not two people scratching each other's back mutually, setting them up with dates, etc. It's one person using the other for an ego boost, and the other person secretly hoping for more than a friendship.

[ThaWholigan]

I've been able to maintain friendships with girls that at varying stages I've wanted to sleep with, without any problem. There's only one I can think of where it did become a problem but that was exacerbated by my general inexperience and naivety with women.

 

Opposite sex friendships work for me very well, and I enjoy female company without the expectation of sex - even if I'm sexually attracted to them. I'm more than comfortable dealing with it.

[bentleychic]

Have to agree with MrCastle. I had one guy that I considered a good friend. Great listener, I could tell him anything and vice versa. We both liked to travel and hike and he asked me to travel with him a few months down the road. As friends. I told him that we would see, but I was in a new relationship and I wasn't sure where I would be by that point or if I would be comfortable doing that with a single man considering I was in a relationship.

 

He immediately started professing HIS love to me as soon as he found out I was in a new relationship. How could I have started a relationship when HE loved me? Didn't I know? Couldn't I see?

 

Ummm...nope. I thought he was a good friend and nothing more. We'd never talked about dating or anything else.

 

That was about 9 months ago. I've never heard from him sense that conversation.

[sdraw108]

So what are we here to discuss exactly? Men and women can be friends if neither side likes the other romantically. I don't think there's a person on this forum who would disagree with that point. That's not a discussion. Period. Or a very interesting one as everyone would be in agreement.

 

Hey, thanks for joining the discussion (being the person I quoted and all).

 

No, I think you misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a topic on some arbitrary interesting topic. I'm particularly interested to know why people think like this, without the added constraint that neither side like each other romantically. I'm talking about people who believe that opposite-sex friendships aren't possible, period. You yourself said it:

 

There are very, very, very few cases where single, heterosexual men and women can be real friends.

 

You didn't mention anything about mutual attraction there. The only criteria you give are being single, heterosexual, and opposite gender, and you said that with those three criteria only (regardless of attraction), there are "very, very, very, very few cases" where friendship is possible. Why? And if you believe I'm taking you out of context fine, but there are lots of other people who do believe the above, on these forums.

[Star Gazer]

Yeah, it's bull. I've got a lot of female friends and I know for a fact there's no chemistry on either side.

 

Friends, or acquaintances? If there's a movie you want to see, do you call them up and ask them to see it with you? Perhaps grab some beers beforehand? Do you call them when you need to vent about something? Would they go to a funeral of one of your parents? Would you expect them to be a very important guest at your wedding?

 

You have a lot of female friends who fit this description? Really?

[sdraw108]

The discussion should be, can single men and women be friends if one is attracted to the other, and the other isn't -- or, can they control themselves and be friends despite both being romantically interested in each other? Have you seen either of those scenarios work? Because I haven't.

 

Yes, I have. Twice. Once I went on a date with a girl I'd been talking to online for a while. She ended up liking me, but it wasn't mutual. The second situation was similar except we didn't know each other at all when we first went on our date. The first is now in a LTR with someone else, going back at least 4 years, and the second is married. I remained friends with both virtually throughout (over 6 years so far, in both cases), and it's never been an issue, except for an initial period of a few months with the first. With the first, we regularly discuss our dating/relationship situations openly and freely. There's not even the vaguest hint of anything non-platonic.

[MrCastle]

Hey, thanks for joining the discussion (being the person I quoted and all).

 

No, I think you misunderstand me. I'm not trying to start a topic on some arbitrary interesting topic. I'm particularly interested to know why people think like this, without the added constraint that neither side like each other romantically. I'm talking about people who believe that opposite-sex friendships aren't possible, period. You yourself said it:

 

 

 

You didn't mention anything about mutual attraction there. The only criteria you give are being single, heterosexual, and opposite gender, and you said that with those three criteria only (regardless of attraction), there are "very, very, very, very few cases" where friendship is possible. Why? And if you believe I'm taking you out of context fine, but there are lots of other people who do believe the above, on these forums.

 

Let me rephrase then if I wasn't clear in my initial post that you quoted.

 

Friendship to me, cannot exist between two people where one has romantic feelings for the other.

 

There are cool girls I talk to in school and neither one of us likes each other in that way and actually I've had some great conversations with them as the pressure of pushing for sex or trying to impress them is gone.

 

But if they liked me or I liked them? It could never work. They'd get attached, try to give me dating advice that would attempt to sabotage my relationship with the other women, secretly resent me not picking them, hoping one day I'll pick them, etc. You can't form a legit, honest, healthy friendship under those conditions.

[MrCastle]

Yes, I have. Twice. Once I went on a date with a girl I'd been talking to online for a while. She ended up liking me, but it wasn't mutual. The second situation was similar except we didn't know each other at all when we first went on our date. The first is now in a LTR with someone else, going back at least 4 years, and the second is married. I remained friends with both virtually throughout (over 6 years so far, in both cases), and it's never been an issue, except for an initial period of a few months with the first. With the first, we regularly discuss our dating/relationship situations openly and freely. There's not even the vaguest hint of anything non-platonic.

 

They are taken, though. If they were on the market and you tried once again to go for them and they said they just want to be friends, you'd be alright with that? You would be able to carry on as if nothing happened?

[Star Gazer]

There are cool girls I talk to in school and neither one of us likes each other in that way and actually I've had some great conversations with them as the pressure of pushing for sex or trying to impress them is gone.

 

But that to me isn't real friendship; you're really mere acquaintances.

[sdraw108]

Friends, or acquaintances? If there's a movie you want to see, do you call them up and ask them to see it with you? Perhaps grab some beers beforehand? Do you call them when you need to vent about something? Would they go to a funeral of one of your parents? Would you expect them to be a very important guest at your wedding? You have a lot of female friends who fit this description? Really?

 

I have three female friends who fit this category, comfortably. In fact just last week I called one of them up to see a movie, and we did dinner + drinks beforehand! It's almost impossible that she wouldn't attend a funeral of one of my parents, or my wedding.

[Star Gazer]

I have three female friends who fit this category, comfortably. In fact just last week I called one of them up to see a movie, and we did dinner + drinks beforehand! It's almost impossible that she wouldn't attend a funeral of one of my parents, or my wedding.

 

Are they in relationships?

[sdraw108]

Let me rephrase then if I wasn't clear in my initial post that you quoted. Friendship to me, cannot exist between two people where one has romantic feelings for the other.

 

Ok fair enough, but I'd like to consider that off-topic as it's not what this post is about (and I'll now consider you to NOT be part of the male mentality I was referring to).

 

There are plenty of people who specifically believe that male/female friendships are impossible and e.g. wouldn't trust their SO hanging out with members of the opposite sex, even if it were claimed there were no romantic feelings on either side, because they don't think such a scenario is possible.

[sdraw108]

Are they in relationships?

 

One of them isn't, two of them are. So what? I've known them at various stages in their lives with both of us being in various combinations of single/attached. One of them I've known so long that we've both been in multiple relationships, sometimes simultaneously, sometimes not. It's never made any difference whatsoever.

[KatZee]

Yeah, I'm jumping on the "this is BS" bandwagon.

 

One of my best friends is a male. We've never hooked up, we've never dated, neither of us has ever expressed interest in the other, we've been close friends since we were about 13/14 year old in junior high school.

 

We're both 29 now. We see each other at least once a week, we go to the movies together, we go out to dinner together, we spend days doing errands together, I've even had dinner with his family.

 

We both confide in each other, talk about issues with current spouses, problems, we vent to each other about crap.

 

Shoot we just spent all of today together, we grabbed lunch, did some errands, shopped and then took a 2 mile run for some exercise.

 

Truly platonic!

[sdraw108]

They are taken, though. If they were on the market and you tried once again to go for them and they said they just want to be friends, you'd be alright with that? You would be able to carry on as if nothing happened?

 

The point is, I wouldn't "try once again to go for them" in the first place, because our relationship is platonic at this point. Switching from romantic to platonic, and then back to romantic is something I'd personally find very hard to do, even if I did seek it out (which I would be unlikely to do).

 

It's not like it's a switch that I just flick every time they get a boyfriend and/or break up. "Oh, they have a boyfriend, I'm so happy she's my friend" and then "Oh he dumped her, I totally want to get into her pants now" a few months later, then back to "great, we're friends" when she gets the next boyfriend.

[MrCastle]

Ok fair enough, but I'd like to consider that off-topic as it's not what this post is about (and I'll now consider you to NOT be part of the male mentality I was referring to).

 

There are plenty of people who specifically believe that male/female friendships are impossible and e.g. wouldn't trust their SO hanging out with members of the opposite sex, even if it were claimed there were no romantic feelings on either side, because they don't think such a scenario is possible.

 

I agree there are some who feel like that. Though I'm not one of those people.

 

But I thought my post you quoted to use in this thread was clear on that.

 

Miscommunication I guess. No harm done.

[fortyninethousand322]

I think it's hard to have opposite gender friendships when one party or the other is interested sexually or romantically in the other party.

 

I'm perfectly fine being friends, as long as I'm not interested in dating you.

[sdraw108]

I think it's hard to have opposite gender friendships when one party or the other is interested sexually or romantically in the other party.

 

I'm perfectly fine being friends, as long as I'm not interested in dating you.

 

Agreed, but to elaborate on the second point, do you believe it's possible for two otherwise attractive (as in most people would say they are) opposite gender straight people, who have things in common and get along very well, to have no interest in dating each other?

[sdraw108]

No, all men lust after attractive women.

 

I'm a man, and I am telling you that I have attractive female friends that I do not lust after. Are you saying I'm a liar? Bearing in mind I'm not trying to date or impress you, and this is an anonymous forum.

 

Generalizations are silly. Change it to "a lot" or even "most" men, and we might have an interesting debate. As it is, you've killed it by being unreasonable.

[fortyninethousand322]

Agreed, but to elaborate on the second point, do you believe it's possible for two otherwise attractive (as in most people would say they are) opposite gender straight people, who have things in common and get along very well, to have no interest in dating each other?

 

Yes.

 

There's a girl I'm friends with (I think we're still friends, I mean she's been avoiding me lately and I don't know why) who is gorgeous. She used to be kind of "grungey" in a 1990s rock n' roll kind of way, but has really matured and developed a very nice look. But I have no interest in dating her even if she were single. We grew up together and I basically view her as my second sister.

 

Maybe if I met her for the first time today instead of 15 years ago I'd feel differently.

[sdraw108]

Most men do. Like 90%. The majority. To the point where the odds of it happening are very high and not worth the risk.

 

Ok, that's an improvement. See, you've already gone from "all" to "most" which supports my case that the topic title of this thread is indeed a myth. Whether or not it is "worth the risk" is another matter entirely, and really revolves around issues of trust. Personally I wouldn't want to date someone where I'd feel it was a "risk" any time they were around someone attractive, because to me that means they are untrustworthy by definition.

 

Are bisexual men incapable of friendships with attractive people? Are they forced into a life of deliberately befriending only unattractive people, to avoid the risk of them wanting to sleep with everyone they know?

[MissBee]

Men and women can be platonic friends.

 

However, if you're straight, there is a possibility, if your friend is someone you find attractive, that if you spend enough time alone with them sharing emotional intimacies, that you can find yourself developing feelings for them or a sexual attraction.

 

Hence, in my opinion, especially when married or dating, you need to have proper boundaries with your opposite sex friends, as we're human and if you're having relationship problems and start confiding in Tim or Mary or are constantly hanging out alone...you can cross the line and be over it before you know it.

 

I don't have lots of male friends which were always platonic. The truth is, many of my male friends were people I once liked/they liked me or we dated briefly, then stopped and are now just friends. The ones where we never dated or anything, while platonic, I can say I could see how if I really spent lots of one on one time with them, it could become more, as most are guys to whom I could potentially be attracted. I think on most of my male friends' side, even though they do not have an active interest in me romantically and aren't pursuing me, they think I am attractive, nice, etc. and would not be opposed to more if the right confluence of circumstances came along. So yes we're platonic...but the line is thin, where it's not like they think I am gross or like a sister, so they could NEVER see me as more given the right circumstances, or I them. I think most of my male friendships have a bit of sexual tension and flirtation built in, although it is not an active kind of like or secret desire.

Edited July 30, 2013 by MissBee