Child's mother being unreasonable, completely lost as to how to handle it.

[lollipopspot]

What exactly do I need to do to earn my title as father? all I've ever wanted and asked for was to be seen as an equal member of a two person team.

 

 

Instead I get told I'm a deadbeat terrible father because he won't move one day.

 

You don't need to earn it from the mother, your daughter already sees you as her father.

 

I don't think the mother will see you as equal unless you're a 50/50 co-parent, and even then because she works with children she's going to see you as less knowledgeable. It doesn't really matter what she thinks though, as long as it doesn't interfere with whatever custody is determined.

 

If you do want to try to seek co-parenting counseling, maybe you could draft a letter to send to her, and people could help you edit it, to try to make it as benign as possible?

[Keenly]

You don't need to earn it from the mother, your daughter already sees you as her father.

 

I don't think the mother will see you as equal unless you're a 50/50 co-parent, and even then because she works with children she's going to see you as less knowledgeable. It doesn't really matter what she thinks though, as long as it doesn't interfere with whatever custody is determined.

 

If you do want to try to seek co-parenting counseling, maybe you could draft a letter to send to her, and people could help you edit it, to try to make it as benign as possible?

 

I think I might have to ask in person. She never has these reactions in person. I'm not sure if she'd be open to it, but it's definitely worth a shot.

 

 

As for communication, I need to know what to do when she starts a fight. Do I just ignore it? Do I say something calmly back? Usually that provokes further conflict but isn't ignoring it rude?

Edited July 24, 2015 by Keenly

[DrReplyInRhymes]

I think I might have to ask in person. She never has these reactions in person. I'm not sure if she'd be open to it, but it's definitely worth a shot.

 

 

As for communication, I need to know what to do when she starts a fight. Do I just ignore it? Do I say something calmly back? Usually that provokes further conflict but isn't ignoring it rude?

 

You do exactly as if it were your daughter.

 

You reward good behavior and you ignore bad behavior. Act like the stable level-headed man that you are. Once you do this long enough, she WILL grow to respect you, even if she's still resentful regarding your past.

 

Think of your ex like a 10 year old girl. They are fueled off emotion, not logic. So don't try to logically explain why you can't change your Sunday plans. You tell her that you can't, and that's that. Whatever insult she throws at you back is just a temper tantrum, and you can't exactly spank her, so ignore it.

 

Parental alienation is hard to prove. Good luck with that. Especially with 0% custody.

 

You seem very much like myself Keenly. I'm not rhyming at the moment because this hits very close to home, and I know what you're feeling. Thankfully, my baby momma is a bit more levelheaded and respectful. Yours seems to not be.

 

I've never been married either, so there's that. I just researched the hell out of child custody in my state when I was asked over the phone when he was only a few months old :"Do you want to just give full custody to me?". My answer was a "**** no" and a *click*.

 

I was 4 states away. I came back for my son. I won't ever let him go.

 

You seem like a similar guy. Which is why I'm stressing to you, GET SOME KIND OF PARENTING PLAN OR CUSTODY IN FORCE. AMEND THE PARENTING PLAN THAT'S IN PLACE IF SHE ALREADY FILED ONE. YOU'RE THE FATHER. SHOW THE COURTS YOU MEAN TO BE ONE.

[lollipopspot]

Think of your ex like a 10 year old girl. They are fueled off emotion, not logic.

 

Come on, this isn't really the place for gender stereotypes and they're not helpful. Keenly will soon have a 10 year old girl, and there's no reason to begin implanting stereotypes of who she will become. Sometimes also, you find or create exactly what you're looking for. If you treat a 10 year old or a girl or a woman as though they can't possibly be logical and are only "fueled off emotion"...that's exactly what you'll get.

 

I agree that he ought best to make sure his rights are legally protected as soon as possible. There's probably a concern that in doing so, it will deteriorate the already fragile relationship with the mother, so I'm sure he's treading carefully.

[Keenly]

Court is the local course, but it's going to enrage her. Cause more fights. Cost me a lot of money.

 

 

I'm leaning towards do it, but I'm ashamed that it's come this far.

[Keenly]

Logical course

Woops

[DrReplyInRhymes]

Come on, this isn't really the place for gender stereotypes and they're not helpful. Keenly will soon have a 10 year old girl, and there's no reason to begin implanting stereotypes of who she will become. Sometimes also, you find or create exactly what you're looking for. If you treat a 10 year old or a girl or a woman as though they can't possibly be logical and are only "fueled off emotion"...that's exactly what you'll get.

 

I agree that he ought best to make sure his rights are legally protected as soon as possible. There's probably a concern that in doing so, it will deteriorate the already fragile relationship with the mother, so I'm sure he's treading carefully.

 

How is that a stereotype again?

 

If I imagine a roomful of people in their underwear....and I laugh instead of get nervous for a speech......that isn't stereotyping.... Apply this train of thought to how he should handle his ex during one of her tirades and I fail to see how that is stereotyping his ex?

 

From his words, and his words alone mind you, logic is obviously not this woman's strong point. She bases her insults and her derogatory remarks on her resentfulness of his earlier behavior.

 

That's being fueled off emotion, not logic.

 

The same way a child will throw a temper tantrum if he/she doesn't get what he/she wants. That isn't based off logic, that's based off emotion.

 

If she could rationally and maturely manage plans, then I doubt he would even be venting here. But that's not the case. She acts irrationally. She acts out of emotion, especially if she feels its negative.

 

Because of the way she acts, I strongly suggest getting at least 50% custody. It's like insurance for yourself and the right to see your child. Currently, you have no assurance at all. In fact, currently, you are only able to see your child out of her good grace.

 

Change that.

[Radu]

OP, read this and see how much of it applies to your ex ... be as objective as you can :

Histrionic Personality Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central

[writergal]

Court is the local course, but it's going to enrage her. Cause more fights. Cost me a lot of money.

 

 

I'm leaning towards do it, but I'm ashamed that it's come this far.

 

But if you don't fight for equal custody, that will hurt you in the long run in ways you can't imagine right now because she's so young. As long as you remain civil, and use the court system to do everything, then your ex can't sabotage you as she's doing now, with last-minute plans and having tempter tantrums. You need to get custody rights sooner than later. Consult a lawyer. Check out custody forums and go there for support as you're doing here. You are surrounded with resources for your emotional, psychological and legal needs.

[Keenly]

OP, read this and see how much of it applies to your ex ... be as objective as you can :

Histrionic Personality Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central

 

Most of this doesn't really apply. She isn't an attention seeker (at least not socially) and most other stuff doesn't apply..just the rapid mood shifts.

[Keenly]

I'll start the process, but she will view the whole thing as an attack on her personally.

[lollipopspot]

I'm leaning towards do it, but I'm ashamed that it's come this far.

 

Pull the shame out of it. It's just the way it is, given how all of this evolved with your ex and child.

 

I agree that it ought best to be handled carefully, given how she'd likely react and you don't want to further deteriorate the relationship. But I think you do want to protect your rights here.

 

I think there are low cost legal clinics, and many times you can get a first visit with an attorney for very low cost, to briefly explore your options.

[writergal]

I'll start the process, but she will view the whole thing as an attack on her personally.

 

It's not an attack on her personally. Erase that thought and change your perspective to a more positive framework to view getting custody as a good thing. It will allow you to have more say in how your daughter is raised. It will give you your legal power as a father that you don't have with 0% custody and visitation only on your ex's terms.

 

You have proven yourself to be a competent parent so far. Might as well seal the deal with 50% (deserved) custody of your daughter. Without it, your ex holds all the cards and can do and say whatever she wants to ruin your life as your daughter's father. Don't let her.

[regine_phalange]

First of all I wanted to tell you that your daughter is a real cutie and that I love your photo in the avatar.

 

On topic: I think that your way of handling this is the correct one. Because people like your ex are looking for opportunities to establish patterns (or non-patterns) as they please. It may be a control thing for her. If she's unstable then sticking to the pre-agreed schedule is the only way to handle her. She's always going to be unstable, when you do what she wants and when you don't. If you comply once, then the next time she'll say (or shout) "NOW WHY DON'T YOU DO IT? YOU DID LAST TIME AND IT WAS FINE". Who knows, maybe if you keep saying the same thing over and over calmly she'll accept it someday...

[DrReplyInRhymes]

I'll start the process, but she will view the whole thing as an attack on her personally.

 

We've established that she's highly irrational at times. Classify this reaction as one of those times. You are not "taking" custody from her; rather, you are ensuring your rights as her father by getting joint custody.

 

1) If you're in a state with visitation rights and custody, then just file the appropriate forms with the court. She will be court summoned. No need to tell her what you're doing in order to avoid the adverse reaction. She'll find out when she gets summoned. At that point, her irrationality may prove to work in your favor (in court).

 

2) If you're doing a parenting plan, then just file it without her. She'll get a chance to review the parenting plan and make negotiations as she sees fit. If she doesn't get notice, or doesn't submit her own plan for the judge, then it works in your favor completely.

 

Since custody has already been established, you will most likely need to submit a custody / parenting plan amendment. This should be a very similar process to the options above, except you are amending a current order, rather that requesting one.

 

Last but not least, consult a lawyer. You have no money for one. I totally understand. In my state, there's like 3 prominent organizations that help father's with their rights. I'm sure you can find one who will at least consult with you. Google something like "father's rights organization <state>" or "noncustodial parent visitation rights <state>" or something.

 

Even then, you can always do the hustler route. Free consultation visits. You usually get an hour. Talk to lawyer, get information for an hour. Be honest and concise with your questions. After which, he will then ask if you'd like him to represent you. You say no. You leave, call another lawyer, get another consultation. Get more information. That's what I did, albeit for another issue. Still, it works. (I ain't rich, I gotta do what I gotta do.)

 

Good luck bud. You're fighting against a system that isn't friendly toward father's, but if you fight hard enough, and you fight long enough, and you DON'T GIVE UP on your baby girl, you WILL win a legal right to be in her life uninhibited by your ex.

Edited July 24, 2015 by DrReplyInRhymes

[writergal]

Keenly, your city should have several pro-bono lawyers you can utilize. Find them through your city's volunteer lawyers network. Go to your city's government center b/c that's usually where most volunteer lawyer clinics are held. You wait in line, fill out paperwork about what your situation is, then you get to consult for free with a lawyer about writing a parenting plan etc,. and they will give you free advice.

 

You don't need money to hire a lawyer. Hire a pro-bono lawyer. You may just have to do some calling around until you find a law firm that has some.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

Keenly, your city should have several pro-bono lawyers you can utilize. Find them through your city's volunteer lawyers network. Go to your city's government center b/c that's usually where most volunteer lawyer clinics are held. You wait in line, fill out paperwork about what your situation is, then you get to consult for free with a lawyer about writing a parenting plan etc,. and they will give you free advice.

 

You don't need money to hire a lawyer. Hire a pro-bono lawyer. You may just have to do some calling around until you find a law firm that has some.

 

Excellent advice, however, pro-bono lawyers generally only take cases that have a settlement in their favor, hence the "work for free until we get paid" type of attitude with them. Personal Injury claims, defamation, etc are what pro-bono lawyers generally go after.

 

However, using your advice, you can totally get by with a public defender. It's a custody case, it's not a murder trial. Most of this is paperwork. If you do enough research and talk to enough lawyers and paralegals, you'll piece together how to do it yourself.

 

Now, when you get into court, and this judge sees that you did the research, you filed the papers, you asked for custody, AND you've been seeing your daughter for the past few years, they are going to grant you custody (not 100%, that is probably impossible unless your ex is a known prostitute/drug addict/"unfit for parenting") I can almost guarantee it.

 

You just gotta file the paperwork.

Edited July 24, 2015 by DrReplyInRhymes

[Tayla]

Keenly, as i perused thru some of the advice and your responses, I don't think I saw alotta empathy for your concerns (that i sincerely think are valid. ).You almost broke my heart when you said , Whats it going to take to be acknowledged and given priveldge about my daughters milestone. I truly get your genuine want for that ... and it will come. Rationally , consider the courts please. Its there to help families ...

The mediator will give you both equal time to address your parenting plan. I know you just want tips on how to get your daughters mom to be less rude and unreasonable. It will happen if you trust that the courts have heard it all, and encourage co parenting in a respectful manner. My sons ex was evil incarnate til he took the actions to mediate, compromise on some things and draw the line on her times of drama. It took the courts and my sons consistency to get to this point. Three years of hashing it out have now been stabilized. You absolutely have a right to have adult time as well as parenting time. The courts encourage parents to be well rounded socially.

I think you are making great strides as a first time Dad!

[Keenly]

Keenly, your city should have several pro-bono lawyers you can utilize. Find them through your city's volunteer lawyers network. Go to your city's government center b/c that's usually where most volunteer lawyer clinics are held. You wait in line, fill out paperwork about what your situation is, then you get to consult for free with a lawyer about writing a parenting plan etc,. and they will give you free advice.

 

You don't need money to hire a lawyer. Hire a pro-bono lawyer. You may just have to do some calling around until you find a law firm that has some.

 

 

Money is not really an issue, as I'm saving for a new car, but this is clearly more important. Plus, I just got a ridiculous pay raise, so as soon as that starts rolling in and I see how big of a change it is, I can set out my legal budget.

 

In my experience, you get what you pay for. There was a really nice guy in my area that I had a consultation with before the first child support hearing. Maybe I'll give him a call.

[Keenly]

As much as she makes me angry, I love watching the two of them together. They have a really strong bond. I watched them from the door when I picked her up a few hours ago.

[Radu]

Most of this doesn't really apply. She isn't an attention seeker (at least not socially) and most other stuff doesn't apply..just the rapid mood shifts.

 

Thank God for that !!!

 

One of my ex's had some elements of PD's, i would guess about 70% from Histrionic and the rest from borderline.

Overall not strong enough to 'have it' ... but man did it drain me; after she showed me how she was deep down ... it drained me so fast, i was walking on eggshells in months.

 

Anyway, her impulse problems then may be come from :

- training, instinctive ... etc.

- desire to control

 

If it's the latter, she will give you more problem than normal when you appy the parental plan. If it's the former, she will forget it eventually [quite quickly from your description].

If it's the former, it also means that she has little emotional intelligence [the ability to control your instincts, to delay gratification].

[whichwayisup]

First of all I wanted to tell you that your daughter is a real cutie and that I love your photo in the avatar.

 

On topic: I think that your way of handling this is the correct one. Because people like your ex are looking for opportunities to establish patterns (or non-patterns) as they please. It may be a control thing for her. If she's unstable then sticking to the pre-agreed schedule is the only way to handle her. She's always going to be unstable, when you do what she wants and when you don't. If you comply once, then the next time she'll say (or shout) "NOW WHY DON'T YOU DO IT? YOU DID LAST TIME AND IT WAS FINE". Who knows, maybe if you keep saying the same thing over and over calmly she'll accept it someday...

 

Very adorable daughter. Though if you do go to court, maybe take down the picture, just in case...Better to be safe than sorry.

 

Your ex needs to put her daughters needs above her own, put her first and stop being such a dramatic brat. Your compromise of allowing her to go to that dinner with her mom and aunt, you picking her up after IS fair. Your ex can't call the shots and get her way every single time. Life just doesn't work that way and as your daughter gets older this will get worse and cause issues. She has to bend, compromise and you two need to learn (aka HER) to get along and communicate, have a respect for one another as parents and be fair for the best interest of your daughter. I hope your ex loosens up and stops putting you down. You're a good father, don't let her make you feel otherwise!

[wizer]

" sorry, I won't be able to change that date. There is a legal seminar downtown and my attendance is required for work "

 

And I get back "you're such a piece of **** father " should I just accept that?

 

Yes, just shrug it off, ignore it, don't respond to it, don't feed it.

[SpiralOut]

I'll start the process, but she will view the whole thing as an attack on her personally.

 

It doesn't matter how she sees it. You're afraid of her reaction because right now your rights aren't protected and she can do what she wants with your daughter. Once you have your rights, it won't matter what she thinks or says anymore. She won't be able to do anything to you so long as you follow whatever agreement is put into place.

 

 

I think it is extra important for your daughter to have you in her life since her mother is a difficult person. It's not easy to be raised by an immature parent; it might be okay now but when your daughter hits puberty it might not be so pretty. If she has at least you in her life it'll help tremendously.

[serial muse]

Most of this doesn't really apply. She isn't an attention seeker (at least not socially) and most other stuff doesn't apply..just the rapid mood shifts.

 

OP, it sounds like you really love your daughter and you're sincerely interested in being a great dad, and I commend you for that. It's a wonderful thing.

 

I agree with those who suggest that perhaps a mediator or the courts are the way to go to codify your time with your daughter. Sometimes the emotions in a situation are just too much to work things out. It seems like those emotions are still running high between you and your ex.

 

I know there's been a lot of stuff thrown around about her and borderline personality disorder on this thread, which seems a bit over the top to me. But I appreciate what you wrote above, and your comment about her bond with your daughter, because it sounds like -- at least when you're not feeling under attack -- you're not willing to demonize her, either. That's a good sign.

 

Given what I understand of your history with her from what you've written here, I'd venture to say that perhaps the reason she reacts so strongly when you don't agree to her changes is that she -- in addition to maybe wanting to punish you still -- she also still doesn't really trust that you're going to be around in the long term. That may be unfair at this point, but that's where two things that you can do will help in the long term, even if they provoke some tension in the short term.

 

1. 50/50 parenting

2. Court visitation

 

The thing about those two things is that they say "I'm in this for the long haul, so much so that I'm doing this formally." If you want, you can even indicate this to your ex as a way of smoothing the path and explaining why you're going this route: That you want it formalized, and that you want to send the message that you're not going anywhere, which is as much meant to reassure as to solidify your stake in your daughter's wellbeing.

 

I get that your ex may be driving you crazy over this, but what you're describing sounds to me like someone who has a lot of complicated feelings about this "partnership" with you - bitterness that she was left alone to deal with it in the early exhausting years, pleasure that her daughter has a loving father, anxiety that this current setup will evaporate at any minute and she'll have to deal with the fallout, irritation that she still has to instruct you on what to do at times, because the responsibility can be overwhelming and sometimes you want the other person to just take it on.

 

Empathy could really ease the way here. I know you're trying to be a good dad, but there's also an art to being a good co-parent. She's clearly not perfect and clearly having a lot of feelings about this whole thing, and she's not expressing them in a helpful or even very mature way - but the bottom line is that it does sound like she's tried to make room for you to step back in. That's a pretty big thing too. She's trying to do the right thing, just as you are. Just something to keep in mind.

Edited July 31, 2015 by serial muse