katiegrl Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 I think the biggest issue I see with most of these posts on this thread is that people are looking at this from a logical perspective, but attraction by and large is not a logical, conscious decision that people make. You can logic love and attraction to death, but it's simply not that kind of construct. The human brain is really 3 different brains sitting on top of each other with the top front separating us from the chimps and bonobos. (Yes, science geeks, I get that it's much more complicated than that, but I'm trying to simplify it in a way that everyone can understand.) Attraction, mating, sex, etc. run their processes in the lower, more reptilian part of your brain as opposed to your more prefrontal cortex, higher thought processing part. You don't have to think about breathing because that's a lower level process and attraction is the same thing. Logically, there is nothing attractive about subcutaneous, lactating fat on a woman's chest, but something about boobs brings out the inner chimp in most men. I never chose to be attracted to women and and I certainly never chose to be attracted the narcissistic, yoga pants girls. If I had a choice, I would actually prefer to not be attracted to anyone in that way. Life would be so much more simple not dealing with this stuff (IMO). The hallmark of a good partner is someone who has a strong will and enough impulse control to make healthy decisions and help control this more primal part of who they are. However, that doesn't mean that it doesn't still exist. Sometimes, no matter how good a person is, they just don't trigger that attraction in your brain. It's such a delicate, complicated process that science is still trying to figure it out. Something as simple as the smell of someone's sweat can be enough to hinder or intensify your attraction to them. When you deny this part of yourself, it creates cognitive dissonance that makes life hard to bear. You keep telling yourself, "this person is nice, sweet, loving, caring, successful and has all of the qualities that one should look for in a partner, so why do I not have that spark for them?" but it's simply not a choice. The times in my life where I have tried to force it always ended up disastrously. All the people shaming others on thread for being honest about attraction are really shaming humanity and evolution in general. Most men and women never chose to be attracted to anyone in the first place. That's why I try to cut my women friends some slack when they get burned by some alpha, frat guy jerk. It's not like they chose it or something. However, if they get burned and keep going back for more, my empathy starts running a little short. I think it's also unfair to hold men and women to the same standard in this regard when we are so drastically different. It doesn't mean that one is better than the other, but we are different. The testosterone fueled male sex drive is not an easy thing to deal with. In my opinion, it's one of the hardest things I have to deal with being male. I absolutely hate it and wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. I've read anecdotal reports of transgendered women who started testosterone therapy and hated what it did to their psyche. This one women (and I'm paraphrasing) said something along the lines of "before testosterone therapy, I used to look at a woman and wonder what type of books she reads, now I look at her and my thoughts immediately turn sexual." Simply put, there's a reason why the sex industry is largely geared towards men. We didn't choose to be this way and the good guys work really hard to keep their drive under control so that they can live a healthier, more productive life and not hurt others. However, it's really untrue that men are only interested in sex with a woman. From my experience, once you've you've already slept together, it's her personality that keeps you sticking around and keeps you loyal. I've met some guys who are different, but most genuinely have to have a real connection or the end up leaving. They aren't going to stick around for some girl they've already slept with if they don't like her as a person unless they are really desperate and don't have a lot of other options. This post is long so I hope everyone takes the time to read ... because it is RIGHT ON !! Well said!
HereNorThere Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 I just hate when men say, "I don't care about women's education/degrees/career." Like it's so dumb. Money is a real and powerful thing. What happens if you get cancer tomorrow? Factoring in the amount of financial gain you receive from marrying a certain person isn't any healthier than choosing someone based on their appearance. You are correct that most men don't look at a woman and wonder if she has good medical insurance. In this day and age of gender equality, it seems like a step backwards to be looking at a man and wondering what resources you can extract from him. Like I said previously, both genders have some conflicted ideas about what they should be attracted to. I have never thought to myself "I like this girl, but I'm not so sure she's going to be able to pay for my cancer one day". LOL!!! *for those of you in the civilized world outside of the U.S. - Medical insurance is a ponzi/pyramid, lottery type scheme we use as a way to deny the less fortunate proper healthcare and/or to feel less guilty about allowing them to die.
elaine567 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 I have never thought to myself "I like this girl, but I'm not so sure she's going to be able to pay for my cancer one day". LOL!!! That is because, as a man, you are assuming you will have progressed in your career enough by the time you need it, to either have enough money to pay private healthcare, or your job will come with a healthcare package.
Rejected Rosebud Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 It's just part of our biology. We look at women and wonder the same thing about their choices in partners. Believe it or not many people maybe even most! come to a place in their life when we're not just functioning by responding to biological urges, I am pretty sure that many successful men will NOT choose a hot barista for their life partner when they really deeply start to value other things more highly, we're talking about building a life a family and getting really old together here!! :bunny: Of course attraction is part of it but srsly there is a lot more. To the OP you should break up with this girl you find "ugly." No matter what she really looks like it is possible for some different guy than you to be so into her he will find the way she looks very attractive, it happens all the time, and it would be better for you AND her for neither one of you to get settled for or to settle. Having your boyfriend think you are ugly would be soul killing!!! :sick: 2
Leigh 87 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 I sure didn't enjoy my ex thinking that I was a bit ugly. I don't have a small nose. My ex thought it made me a but ugly. His red neck dumb arese mates also agreed that my less than ideal nose deemed me ugly or plain at best. He dumped me after years and soon dated a girl ten years younger who looked like a super model. Funny..I've dated wayyyyyyy hotter and make successful men since my ex who thought that i a as just GORGEOUS. A couple of men even went on to say that they adored my slightly crooked and long nose because it gave me character. Although I am scarred and will never fully recover from dating a guy who felt ashamed of my looks.
DaisyBug Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 I think the biggest issue I see with most of these posts on this thread is that people are looking at this from a logical perspective, but attraction by and large is not a logical, conscious decision that people make. etc. etc. etc. Interesting post, but the point is being missed. This is not a guy who's merely looking at a female stranger and giving a thumbs up or down. This is not a guy being encouraged by his parents or friends to have a relationship with a woman because she's a good person and has a good job, despite his lack of attraction. What people have a problem with is that he has voluntarily begun a relationship with a woman that he has termed "a bit ugly." People's concern is for HER feelings, not his. We see that this woman - a good woman who's a brain surgeon, for Pete's sake - is entering into a relationship with a man who is ashamed to put her picture on his Facebook page lest his friends see he's with an unattractive woman. If the OP has begun a relationship with her, he should be in a place where his attraction for her has developed from the inside out. If that hasn't happened, why take her off the market from finding someone who will find her beautiful in every way? Granted, she seems to be growing on him now, but what I find sad is how someone can enter into a relationship only half-heartedly, while the other person is most likely assuming, "Wow, he really likes me, he's attracted to me, he thinks I'm special, & I'm so happy I found someone to love..." while the guy is on some internet board bemoaning her lack of hotness. Why even bother getting her involved? 5
BlueIris Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) I’d think that anyone who is driven, hard-working and successful, especially in an intellectually challenging career like OP’s GF, would consider those to be such essential parts of who they are that they’d want to be appreciated for that personality trait and outlook on life. It might not be the initial basis for sexual attraction, but it would become important to that person pretty quickly. I just don’t understand why OP began dating someone he found ugly. It still gnaws at him and I’m willing to bet that she’s assuming that it wasn’t a problem for him or he wouldn’t have asked her out. I think she’s in for a nasty surprise when she’s opened up to him and invested emotionally (maybe) and it still boils down to something that should have stopped him from asking her out in the beginning. I wonder if these two have a similar outlook on life, work, ambition, success. If they don’t, she might one day feel disconnected from him, that they aren’t a life match and that her friends and family are going to be her source of connection and support in that part of her life- which is probably a very big part of her life if she’s a surgeon. Time will tell I guess. Work and success are far more about personality and life goals than about money. It’s a perspective on what's important and fulfilling, and a very important one. If someone views work as being about money only, he or she would probably be happier with someone who also views work and money that way. Edited July 26, 2015 by BlueIris
HereNorThere Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Believe it or not many people maybe even most! come to a place in their life when we're not just functioning by responding to biological urges. It's almost like you didn't read my first two posts at all. I said this exact same thing, almost verbatim. Most healthy men and women learn to overcome this biological confliction. The hallmark of a good partner is someone who has a strong will and enough impulse control to make healthy decisions and help control this more primal part of who they are. I just keep making that same point over and over, but your confirmation bias just picks out the part you want to read and skips over the rest. Edited July 26, 2015 by HereNorThere
GoodOnPaper Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 what I find sad is how someone can enter into a relationship only half-heartedly, while the other person is most likely assuming, "Wow, he really likes me, he's attracted to me, he thinks I'm special, & I'm so happy I found someone to love..." while the guy is on some internet board bemoaning her lack of hotness. Why even bother getting her involved? Unless both people in the couple are at the pinnacle of objective attractiveness, I would think that it's extremely rare when there is NOT some kind of attraction imbalance. My entire single life, I was always the one more interested/invested, while with my wife, she was the one more interested/invested. It's just something you deal with and you decide if moving forward with the relationship is better in the long-term even if not everything in the short-term is Minute Rice perfect. Yes, the OP is being a little immature and ego-sensitive -- his reputation for attracting knockout women seems to be very important to him, and I wonder if he's spread that around to family and friends in the past. But I think he's actually more attracted to his GF than he lets on.
katiegrl Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) **Unless both people in the couple are at the pinnacle of objective attractiveness, I would think that it's extremely rare when there is NOT some kind of attraction imbalance. *** My entire single life, I was always the one more interested/invested, while with my wife, she was the one more interested/invested. It's just something you deal with and you decide if moving forward with the relationship is better in the long-term even if not everything in the short-term is Minute Rice perfect. Yes, the OP is being a little immature and ego-sensitive -- his reputation for attracting knockout women seems to be very important to him, and I wonder if he's spread that around to family and friends in the past. But I think he's actually more attracted to his GF than he lets on. Quote in asterisk above, okay but that is assuming both people are basing their attractiveness or *attraction to* each other on looks alone. As has been explained previously, not only by me but by others to, feeling "attracted to" your partner goes much deeper than mere physical appearance alone. For most people. Unless they are both so shallow and superficial that they are incapable of seeing beyond physical appearance....which sadly many people are, and in that case you are right, it would be rare that there would not be some kind of attractiveness imbalance. Edited July 26, 2015 by katiegrl
DaisyBug Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Unless both people in the couple are at the pinnacle of objective attractiveness, I would think that it's extremely rare when there is NOT some kind of attraction imbalance. My entire single life, I was always the one more interested/invested, while with my wife, she was the one more interested/invested. It's just something you deal with and you decide if moving forward with the relationship is better in the long-term even if not everything in the short-term is Minute Rice perfect. I don't understand getting involved in a relationship if one only feels so-so about the other. Why are people so desperate? You don't get into a relationship to fall in love, you fall in love and then desire a relationship. That's old school, apparently, but it worked. When you rush things, one person does indeed often fall faster than the other, and they end up getting hurt. People should enjoy being single, take time to get to know someone, and let things naturally develop. I see on here how people become exclusive with someone yet they don't even have real feelings for them yet. It's just so backwards, IMO. :/
GoodOnPaper Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 I don't understand getting involved in a relationship if one only feels so-so about the other. Why are people so desperate? You don't get into a relationship to fall in love, you fall in love and then desire a relationship. That's old school, apparently, but it worked. When you rush things, one person does indeed often fall faster than the other, and they end up getting hurt. People should enjoy being single, take time to get to know someone, and let things naturally develop. I see on here how people become exclusive with someone yet they don't even have real feelings for them yet. It's just so backwards, IMO. :/ I don't think the OP is desperate. I think he actually is attracted to his gf but he is conflicted because this attraction style is very different than what he's experienced with other women in the past. I could end up being wrong, but I think he will grow past this silly insecurity about FB postings. In general, I see your point but I think you only enjoy being single as much as you are good at it. When you are young with no money and at the bottom of the professional totem pole, it's all about social acceptance -- how good you are at bars and parties. Ugh. When the rare dating opportunity happened, I know I tended to jump into relationship mode a little quickly just to get out of that rat race.
green_tea Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Just the thing to keep in mind is that if you have (had) a serious relationship with an unattractive girl, you are less attractive to attractive women if you ever need to start dating again and they find out. What rubbish. I would never find a guy less attractive just because he had an unattractive (to me) ex. I can't believe people even think like this.
Candygirljane Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 What rubbish. I would never find a guy less attractive just because he had an unattractive (to me) ex. I can't believe people even think like this. Yea, that seems like immature. But I would doubt about his taste if he had a shallow, uneducated ex.
Eggplant Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 I can't speak for your GF or women in general, but for me, it is necessary that my BF thinks I'm hot. If he loved my personality and wit and friendship, but did not think I was hot, then I would not be interested in the relationship. (I possibly could have a platonic friendship with him). Your GF may feel as I do. In that case, unless you have told her how you feel, you are deceiving her and wasting her time. This is immoral. Secondly, if your GF has ever been with a man who thought she was hot, then you will never fool her. The physical reaction of a man who thinks a woman is hot is unmistakable and cannot be faked. You cannot hide. 1
ascendotum Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 What rubbish. I would never find a guy less attractive just because he had an unattractive (to me) ex. I can't believe people even think like this. Might be a rubbish claim from your perspective but absolutely some women and likewise other men too, will think less of the guy. I've heard some snide conversations over the years regarding this. You can call it stupid or immature, but its the related inverse to the per-selection effect, where other women will think more highly of a guy if he has had/slept with beautiful women in the past. At this guy's age bracket though it would have less impact then if he was trying to date in his social circles in his 20s. People judge you by your shoes, job, looks, car, suburb, and your partners are just one other aspect. Personally he should be above that now if he is in love with the lady, though his reluctance with a FB pic, shows he is still conscious of others options. 1
guest569 Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 How can you find her both attractive and ugly?. I dont understand this. I think it is cruel to date someone who you are ashamed of, it is unfair on her. There are men out there who will think she has supermodel looks, so let her go. 1
Candygirljane Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 How can you find her both attractive and ugly?. I dont understand this. I think it is cruel to date someone who you are ashamed of, it is unfair on her. There are men out there who will think she has supermodel looks, so let her go. He seems like a bad person and I will never date a guy who thinks I'm not attractive. I feel so sorry for that girl, she deserves better. 1
GoodOnPaper Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 How can you find her both attractive and ugly?. I dont understand this. I think it is cruel to date someone who you are ashamed of, it is unfair on her. There are men out there who will think she has supermodel looks, so let her go. I don't think looks can be that subjective can they? It's entirely possible to care deeply for someone and be drawn to them while acknowledging that, on a superficial level, he or she isn't as attractive as others. I think the OP's "ugly" descriptor wasn't meant to be as derogatory as it came across -- maybe a second-language issue? After all, he and his GF have a physical relationship -- how "ugly" can he really think she is? 1
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