HereNorThere Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Why? Even if they had less in common with that barista, and found her less interesting or intelligent? It's just part of our biology. We look at women and wonder the same thing about their choices in partners. The nice guys always wonder why girls choose to date the bad guys and the normal looking but sane girls always wonder why men fall for such horrible, egotistical women. Truthfully, it's because attraction is not a choice. Women at a primal level are attracted to alpha like traits and men have a tendency to have an attraction to ultra feminine, girly girl women because they do things to accentuate their fertility (showing too much skin, acting sexual/provocative, etc.) Most healthy men and women learn to overcome this biological confliction, but it's still always bubbling underneath the surface. Free will is largely a myth but impulse control is not. 2
yxalitis Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Good post...it takes a lot to get over the natural inclination to desire the pretty face over the more homely person who is a far better match for you. I dated a girl once how was deciding between me and another guy... We were an amazing intellectual match, but he had a six pack. He won... They broke up 6 months later, as he turned out to be a jealous, insucre disckwad, and when she dumped him, he assaulted her, violently, restraining order violently... We are still friends, proving that we were suited for each other, this remains one of my "what if's" in life...(She's with the father of her child, so a NO GO zone for me)
still_an_Angel Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Your attraction to this girl is not complete. You don't see her as a complete package, it doesn't look like this can last the long road. Nothing wrong with that, you value physical beauty over intellect, that's how you are. But let this girl go, she deserves someone who will adore everything about her.
Phoenician Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 No offense Marcello : you make me sick , I can't imagine how a decent person date a women and at the same time call her ugly . leave the poor girl ,OMG , I feel sad for her ... 4
elaine567 Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Why? Because a woman who is damaged goods is weak, he can persuade her easily to have sex with him and she will be so grateful for the attention. Also many men do not really want to get into a competition with a woman they are seeing. They are the top dog, she is the follower So a woman who is already damaged is very appealing, a woman who no longer respects herself, whose self esteem is in her boots. Better for some to have a woman that he can dominate and control than a healthy woman who will challenge him. He can also "help" by restricting her movements, you are really not well enough to do that course or job, just stay at home and let me look after you or I do not want you to work full stop, OR he can sit at home and force her out to do x number of P/T jobs and she is powerless to desist. Narcissists and psychopaths are also drawn to damaged women, like moths to a flame. Even if they had less in common with that barista, and found her less interesting or intelligent? For some men appearance is everything and some men rarely really listen to women anyway, they never take them seriously. So does it really matter if she cannot hold her end up in a political discussion or can intelligently discuss current affairs? NO He may have his pals and colleagues to do that with, he doesn't necessarily want do that at home. She may be as thick as two short planks, or hardly understands a word he says if she is of a different nationality, but appearance trumps all. All he sees in her is a tight booty and a pair of boobs and a willing sex partner. She also looks fantastic everywhere she goes. He can then be proud and think he is da man, king of the castle. Better she spends her time in the gym and making herself pretty, than reading. If she reads, she may get some ideas, and that would never do... God forbid, she may even show him up... 5
Arieswoman Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 elaine567, ^^^^^ That is one smart post - you really nailed it there ! 2
ascendotum Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 No offense Marcello : you make me sick , I can't imagine how a decent person date a women and at the same time call her ugly . leave the poor girl ,OMG , I feel sad for her ... I'm curious...you don't think it is ever possible for a person to date another person and not find them physically attractive but still want to be with them for their other qualities. There are lots of couple's over 45 I bet are in relationships like that where they don't find their partner physically attractive at all. Most would have started out with lust or love which over the years has been supplanted with devotion (but definitely not all). She will only be a poor girl..if he treats her less special or she finds out his real feelings about her looks. Ugly is a harsh word though, still he is still going out with her despite that. I actually think he should break up with her though.
Grumpybutfun Posted July 24, 2015 Posted July 24, 2015 Because a woman who is damaged goods is weak, he can persuade her easily to have sex with him and she will be so grateful for the attention. Also many men do not really want to get into a competition with a woman they are seeing. They are the top dog, she is the follower So a woman who is already damaged is very appealing, a woman who no longer respects herself, whose self esteem is in her boots. Better for some to have a woman that he can dominate and control than a healthy woman who will challenge him. He can also "help" by restricting her movements, you are really not well enough to do that course or job, just stay at home and let me look after you or I do not want you to work full stop, OR he can sit at home and force her out to do x number of P/T jobs and she is powerless to desist. Narcissists and psychopaths are also drawn to damaged women, like moths to a flame. For some men appearance is everything and some men rarely really listen to women anyway, they never take them seriously. So does it really matter if she cannot hold her end up in a political discussion or can intelligently discuss current affairs? NO He may have his pals and colleagues to do that with, he doesn't necessarily want do that at home. She may be as thick as two short planks, or hardly understands a word he says if she is of a different nationality, but appearance trumps all. All he sees in her is a tight booty and a pair of boobs and a willing sex partner. She also looks fantastic everywhere she goes. He can then be proud and think he is da man, king of the castle. Better she spends her time in the gym and making herself pretty, than reading. If she reads, she may get some ideas, and that would never do... God forbid, she may even show him up... The insecure, unevolved man in a nutshell...these are a dime a dozen and women still give them the time of the day...it amazes me to watch this... G 3
GreenBlueGreen Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Sometimes we are curious what attracts people to each other if it is not physical. Good example. My favourite singer Lena Katina and her husband. She was voted in a lot of top 100 sexiest women of such and such a year. Her husband is ten years older then her and honestly you would think "Why would someone like her go out with someone like him?" However I guess she saw beyond looks and liked him for his other charms. http://beautifulrus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/katina-Kuzmanovic.jpg
Lois_Griffin Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 One day when you grow as a person, you will cringe at your thought process and your behavior here. The man is already 40 years old. It ain't gonna happen. 1
DaisyBug Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Sometimes we are curious what attracts people to each other if it is not physical. Good example. My favourite singer Lena Katina and her husband. She was voted in a lot of top 100 sexiest women of such and such a year. Her husband is ten years older then her and honestly you would think "Why would someone like her go out with someone like him?" However I guess she saw beyond looks and liked him for his other charms. http://beautifulrus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/katina-Kuzmanovic.jpg Look at Shania Twain and Mutt Lange. She's absolutely stunning, and he is...not ugly, but not a looker. Just filthy rich. Interestingly, he dumped Shania for a very average-looking woman - her best friend. I believe they are still together, years later.
Gaeta Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 OP: Would you date her if tomorrow she was not a surgeon anymore? If not then let her go. When I date someone and I want to check if my interest is genuine I ask myself if tomorrow this man lost everything would I still want him? If the answer is yes then my interest in him is genuine.
katiegrl Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 Look at Shania Twain and Mutt Lange. She's absolutely stunning, and he is...not ugly, but not a looker. *** Just filthy rich.***. So is she! Remember Julia Roberts and Lyle Lovett? Oy vey.
William Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 A few program notes: If responding, please read the most recent update from the thread starter, linked here. The member is established, has been here a couple years and it appears English is not their primary language, so please keep comments respectful, in general, and respectful of that potential, specifically. While the last update is a few days old, I'll leave the thread open since reading and response is still going on. Thanks and please continue!
elaine567 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 I think talent is attractive, especially when that talent leads to success. Success is very attractive.
Pillow Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 I don't get how any man wouldn't take into account women's success and intelligence. Just thinking about a waitress vs a doctor/lawyer. Especially at 40 years old. A waitress does not get health insurance, dental insurance, childcare benefits. She probably can't take vacation and she'll probably not have a lot to talk about because her job is the same thing every day. Everything is SO EXPENSIVE right now. I don't understand how ALL men aren't running after successful, educated & attractive women, instead of being threatened by them. My friend and her husband are both lawyers. Together, they make around $300k each year, live in a good neighborhood, with a great apt, and have enough money to travel for 2 weeks every year, besides other things. They both are equally fluent in two different languages. They'll probably have good retirements... and they have healthcare insurance in case anything happens to them. They also probably have higher credit limits, and a car. They can afford a maid and to send their children to private school. I mean, if life happens: like you lose your job, you become sick... wouldn't you prefer a lawyer/doctor spouse than a waitress? I just don't get why some guys would be threatened. I just wish men would wake up already. Life is hard and the cost of living keeps going up and up. Men need to rethink their attraction and realize that education/success in a woman is attractive for financial stability or indulgence. I just hate when men say, "I don't care about women's education/degrees/career." Like it's so dumb. Money is a real and powerful thing. What happens if you get cancer tomorrow?
ppo88201 Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 I think she deserves better! If you cant see the beauty in her spirit and character, then you have no business wasting her time. I feel so bad for her right now.
Phoe Posted July 25, 2015 Posted July 25, 2015 I think talent is attractive, especially when that talent leads to success. Success is very attractive. I agree that talent is attractive, but even if it's not a "useful" talent... When someone has found something that they're good at, that they love doing, and are passionate about, that in itself is attractive. My dad is fantastic at sudoku. Really, REALLY into it. My mom might chuckle and roll her eyes sometimes, but she still surprises him with new "ultra hard sudoku puzzle" books, because she knows he loves it, is good at it, and hey! she loves seeing him happy doing something. You can tell that she really does like that side of him. That's attractive! 4
DaisyBug Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 So is she! Remember Julia Roberts and Lyle Lovett? Oy vey. If I'm not mistaken, Mutt is the one who made her rich. Oh yeah, I forgot about Julia Roberts & Lyle Lovett!! And then there's the lead singer of the Cars who married a supermodel...
No Limit Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Sorry but I'm saying you should definitely let her go in time instead of leading her on. What if you consider her to be beneath you at some point but still wouldn't want to miss out on her benefits - would cheating with girls more to your liking be the answer? Does she deserve that?
lino Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 This topic is interesting. Guys are often told they're only chasing after supposed super models and to go for the supposed plain janes. Then when a guy does this and doesn't realise that advice is very good (duh!) he gets slated for being insensitive. ALL people should go after those they're attracted to. I don't get how any man wouldn't take into account women's success and intelligence. Just thinking about a waitress vs a doctor/lawyer. Especially at 40 years old. A waitress does not get health insurance, dental insurance, childcare benefits. She probably can't take vacation and she'll probably not have a lot to talk about because her job is the same thing every day. Everything is SO EXPENSIVE right now. I don't understand how ALL men aren't running after successful, educated & attractive women, instead of being threatened by them. My friend and her husband are both lawyers. Together, they make around $300k each year, live in a good neighborhood, with a great apt, and have enough money to travel for 2 weeks every year, besides other things. They both are equally fluent in two different languages. They'll probably have good retirements... and they have healthcare insurance in case anything happens to them. They also probably have higher credit limits, and a car. They can afford a maid and to send their children to private school. I mean, if life happens: like you lose your job, you become sick... wouldn't you prefer a lawyer/doctor spouse than a waitress? I just don't get why some guys would be threatened. I just wish men would wake up already. Life is hard and the cost of living keeps going up and up. Men need to rethink their attraction and realize that education/success in a woman is attractive for financial stability or indulgence. I just hate when men say, "I don't care about women's education/degrees/career." Like it's so dumb. Money is a real and powerful thing. What happens if you get cancer tomorrow? This may come as a big shock but there are some people who don't judge others merely by their jobs or pay packet. Indeed a big shock, I know! If 'life happens' I deal with it myself, don't need a doctor or lawyer to throw me a rope. If I look for a partner, all I care is that we're attracted to each other and get along well. Most men are like this I believe. Status/salary chasing are something more common with women. 2
elaine567 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Guys are often told they're only chasing after supposed super models and to go for the supposed plain janes. Then when a guy does this and doesn't realise that advice is very good (duh!) he gets slated for being insensitive. OK but the thread is about said guy not being happy with plain jane, as he was used to much better looking women. He called her a bit ugly. He was even scared to put her pics up on FB, in case his friends saw them. He was ashamed of her That comes across as shallow, insensitive and unkind, people are picking up on that, surely they can't be blamed for that? This may come as a big shock but there are some people who don't judge others merely by their jobs or pay packet. Indeed a big shock, I know! If 'life happens' I deal with it myself, don't need a doctor or lawyer to throw me a rope. If I look for a partner, all I care is that we're attracted to each other and get along well. Most men are like this I believe. Status/salary chasing are something more common with women. Women still earn less than men, women have babies. Women therefore see the need to choose men who are good providers for her potential family -> salaries matter. 1
anna121 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 OP in your first post you used the words "she is a bit ugly". Later on you said "not so beautiful". Those are very different things. "Ugly" is a pretty strong word to describe how someone looks. Like, they have a physical feature that is just BAD and is the first thing that would strike you when you meet them. Terrible teeth, huge nose, receding chin etc. Something extreme. IMO. "Not so beautiful", or "plain" is something else entirely. Just wondering which it is. In any event, you say you don't love her. Do you mean, "not yet"? Or are you not thinking of her that way at all? The second would be a warning sign. When most people fall in love in the beginning of a relationship, their partner's appearance actually becomes better to them. They don't think about the physical flaws as much, because it gets overridden by the emotional trigger of being with someone who makes them feel good. If you don't fall in love with her, you're probably always going to notice her looks and what is subpar about them. And you don't sound like you're able to be fully happy about that.
HereNorThere Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) I think the biggest issue I see with most of these posts on this thread is that people are looking at this from a logical perspective, but attraction by and large is not a logical, conscious decision that people make. You can logic love and attraction to death, but it's simply not that kind of construct. The human brain is really 3 different brains sitting on top of each other with the top front separating us from the chimps and bonobos. (Yes, science geeks, I get that it's much more complicated than that, but I'm trying to simplify it in a way that everyone can understand.) Attraction, mating, sex, etc. run their processes in the lower, more reptilian part of your brain as opposed to your more prefrontal cortex, higher thought processing part. You don't have to think about breathing because that's a lower level process and attraction is the same thing. Logically, there is nothing attractive about subcutaneous, lactating fat on a woman's chest, but something about boobs brings out the inner chimp in most men. I never chose to be attracted to women and and I certainly never chose to be attracted the narcissistic, yoga pants girls. If I had a choice, I would actually prefer to not be attracted to anyone in that way. Life would be so much more simple not dealing with this stuff (IMO). The hallmark of a good partner is someone who has a strong will and enough impulse control to make healthy decisions and help control this more primal part of who they are. However, that doesn't mean that it doesn't still exist. Sometimes, no matter how good a person is, they just don't trigger that attraction in your brain. It's such a delicate, complicated process that science is still trying to figure it out. Something as simple as the smell of someone's sweat can be enough to hinder or intensify your attraction to them. When you deny this part of yourself, it creates cognitive dissonance that makes life hard to bear. You keep telling yourself, "this person is nice, sweet, loving, caring, successful and has all of the qualities that one should look for in a partner, so why do I not have that spark for them?" but it's simply not a choice. The times in my life where I have tried to force it always ended up disastrously. All the people shaming others on thread for being honest about attraction are really shaming humanity and evolution in general. Most men and women never chose to be attracted to anyone in the first place. That's why I try to cut my women friends some slack when they get burned by some alpha, frat guy jerk. It's not like they chose it or something. However, if they get burned and keep going back for more, my empathy starts running a little short. I think it's also unfair to hold men and women to the same standard in this regard when we are so drastically different. It doesn't mean that one is better than the other, but we are different. The testosterone fueled male sex drive is not an easy thing to deal with. In my opinion, it's one of the hardest things I have to deal with being male. I absolutely hate it and wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. I've read anecdotal reports of transgendered women who started testosterone therapy and hated what it did to their psyche. This one women (and I'm paraphrasing) said something along the lines of "before testosterone therapy, I used to look at a woman and wonder what type of books she reads, now I look at her and my thoughts immediately turn sexual." Simply put, there's a reason why the sex industry is largely geared towards men. We didn't choose to be this way and the good guys work really hard to keep their drive under control so that they can live a healthier, more productive life and not hurt others. However, it's really untrue that men are only interested in sex with a woman. From my experience, once you've you've already slept together, it's her personality that keeps you sticking around and keeps you loyal. I've met some guys who are different, but most genuinely have to have a real connection or the end up leaving. They aren't going to stick around for some girl they've already slept with if they don't like her as a person unless they are really desperate and don't have a lot of other options. Edited July 26, 2015 by HereNorThere 4
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