Had a coffee date.

[elaine567]

Also... Bit**ing about "societies standards" and "the game" is a pointless battle. That's the way it is, sorry but you're not going to change it and can either deal with it and adjust or whine about how the way it "should be". The attitude of "why should I treat them this way when they treat me that way" is childish and immature and I'm sure it's a reason why you've had little-no success thus far. In a perfect world would women treat men with class and be honest without playing games and such?, yea no sh@$. That's a fantasy land and ideal you want and it's never gonna happen. Move past it and be a grown up. Wondering why girls in their early - mid twenties play games is like wondering why infants like crying. That's what they do at that stage of their life.

 

Games are not just the preserve of young women, everyone plays games of some sort, it is how everyone lives their life.

Young people play games, old people play games - single people play games, married people play games - men play games and women play games - people play games at work and politicians play games with whole countries.

Some games are fun, some games are deadly serious and some games are pretty nasty or even evil.

 

Seems to me, KA, refusing to "play the game" and opting out, is a theme of yours and you have now taken it into your dating life too.

I think you are entitled to do that, but it is not making you happy and that is why you need to re-consider that mindset.

 

The game you are in fact playing is the one of victim, poor me, all those horrible women and none of them the least bit suitable for me.

The ones I want don't want me... oh woe is me...

 

I agree with Qboro90, you are looking in the wrong age group for what you want.

Studying, working, partying, drinking, clothes, make up and men... not politics, history, general knowledge, fine dining and Beethoven...

[ZA Dater]

You know, this really doesn't make you all that amazing. There are plenty of people who meet these requirements. I tried to offer useful advice in your other thread but I see now you just want to whine.

 

You have a misplaced superiority. when you kept talking about your intelligence, I thought you were a Ph.D or something, a lifelong scholar, not someone who just meets MY basic requirements.

 

You need a major attitude adjustment and just like you refuse to budge on your oh-so-high standards, quality women won't budge on theirs for you.

You are your biggest enemy, and just like you won't "settle" for a lesser woman, no woman worth her salt will "settle" for you.

 

Did I ever mention intelligence is defined as letters after a persons name? No I didn't. Intelligence for me is being knowledgeable about the world around you and not merely a scholar, in fact book smarts don't really do it for me at all.

 

 

I don't trade in insults so I choose to ignore the bold portion but suffice to say its interesting when one plays the person not the topic at hand. I am so glad you can draw so many conclusions about me without having met me, yet you call me judgemental.

[scorpiogirl]

Did I ever mention intelligence is defined as letters after a persons name? No I didn't. Intelligence for me is being knowledgeable about the world around you and not merely a scholar, in fact book smarts don't really do it for me at all.

 

 

I don't trade in insults so I choose to ignore the bold portion but suffice to say its interesting when one plays the person not the topic at hand. I am so glad you can draw so many conclusions about me without having met me, yet you call me judgemental.

 

Your posts reek of judgement. But go ahead, carry on as you have. I'm off to meet my smart, funny boyfriend for a romantic dinner.

[ZA Dater]

23-28 year olds generally aren't looking for what you specify in your checklist. You want an intelligent woman with general knowledge who can intellectually challange you. 23yo just graduated college and is looking for or just starting her 1st post grad job. They're not rhode scholars who have established their careers and are looking for the nice guy to settle down with. You yourself admit you're not what you'd consider "classicly attractive/good looking", yet your targets are 23-28yo's? Cmon now. The odds just aren't in your favor to start so complaining seems like you aren't smart enough to see the logic.

 

Also... Bit**ing about "societies standards" and "the game" is a pointless battle. That's the way it is, sorry but you're not going to change it and can either deal with it and adjust or whine about how the way it "should be". The attitude of "why should I treat them this way when they treat me that way" is childish and immature and I'm sure it's a reason why you've had little-no success thus far. In a perfect world would women treat men with class and be honest without playing games and such?, yea no sh@$. That's a fantasy land and ideal you want and it's never gonna happen. Move past it and be a grown up. Wondering why girls in their early - mid twenties play games is like wondering why infants like crying. That's what they do at that stage of their life.

 

Why don't you try a more detailed and grown up dating site instead of Tinder and Elite Singles? Match.com, Eharmony (I'm not informed at all on OLD so these are al I know but just from General knowledge it seems like that's where people who want serious relationships go to find). Swiping left on Tinder will never work for you because of your incredibly specific likes and dislikes. It's also geared towards a physical attraction and you're looking for an intellectual one. (You may also want to believe you're that special guy who cares about what's on the inside and not the physical beauty as much but I think that's who you want to be perceived as and not who you actually are). Your choice of 23-28yo dating pool suggests that.

 

Oh and not every 29-35yo has kids or a dead end job, etc. Believe it or not dating and finding the right girl/woman takes time and effort. Trial and error until you find the one who is worth it. Complaining about how every girl disappoints you is just immature and unrealistic. Gotta slay a few dragons in order to get to the princess.

 

1: Refer to my post about how I define intelligent. Never mentioned settling down at all, I just want to experience a relationship with someone I like. Nowhere did I mention settling down.

 

 

2: I am tall, slim and athletic so far from a pudgy rice pudding of a person, thus I think its fair enough to actually chase the same looks wise and not be forced to accept a blue whale is the best I can do.

 

 

2.1: I never play odds, I play chance of success. If you believe what odds say one would never do much in life, odds are there to be beaten and when you play a success/challenge based game you are forever challenging yourself to do better and try harder as opposed to settling for any old thing, that applies to life in general, well to me it does anyway.

 

 

3: I knew that post about parity would attract flack here, it was deliberate on my part but goes to my belief that everyone is entitled to a fair chance, why do people dress up for dates, easy, to try impress, do people sell themselves, easy because they want to impress. If you cant impress me enough to want to see you again in one date are you going to impress me after 3 or 4, highly doubtful and perhaps I am guilty of just not being impressive enough myself, perhaps my indifferent attitude does shine through.

 

 

4: I have been on 7 different dating sites, not going back to them, unlike the US the pool of online daters here is pathetically poor to say the least.

 

 

5: Of course I like physical appearance, nowhere did I say I didn't but what I did say is it must be in balance with intellectual intelligence, the often referred to miss perfect is much looks wise but she isn't a blue whale or a water buffalo either, most guys wouldn't even notice her.

 

 

6: OLD in SA, the vast majority have multiple kids and dead end jobs, you going to have to trust me on that one.

 

 

7: Observing and complaining are two different things, my thoughts are observations based on experience, albeit all of them pretty bad, clearly through my own doing I guess.

Remember one thing, ones outlook is defined by ones experience.

[ZA Dater]

Your posts reek of judgement. But go ahead, carry on as you have. I'm off to meet my smart, funny boyfriend for a romantic dinner.

 

 

Do enjoy.

 

 

Thing is I can judge because I have met these 29-35 yo with enough baggage to fill a train through Siberia. There is nothing wrong with them, I am sure they could make many a guy happy, they just aren't for me.

[ZA Dater]

Games are not just the preserve of young women, everyone plays games of some sort, it is how everyone lives their life.

Young people play games, old people play games - single people play games, married people play games - men play games and women play games - people play games at work and politicians play games with whole countries.

Some games are fun, some games are deadly serious and some games are pretty nasty or even evil.

 

Seems to me, KA, refusing to "play the game" and opting out, is a theme of yours and you have now taken it into your dating life too.

I think you are entitled to do that, but it is not making you happy and that is why you need to re-consider that mindset.

 

The game you are in fact playing is the one of victim, poor me, all those horrible women and none of them the least bit suitable for me.

The ones I want don't want me... oh woe is me...

 

I agree with Qboro90, you are looking in the wrong age group for what you want.

Studying, working, partying, drinking, clothes, make up and men... not politics, history, general knowledge, fine dining and Beethoven...

 

Well then I best try start understanding the game and find one I am morally comfortable with! Put simply I refuse to a play a game upon which the foundations amount to nothing more than manipulation and dishonesty. The only game I play in life is to be me and if that means I feel like a misfit most of the time then so be it.

 

 

I have said many times which irks me beyond belief of the truly pathetic "choice" I appear to have, everything I don't want and NOTHING of what I do. Tinder, I swipe everyone and surprise it the least suitable people who like me back, the same is reflected at OKCupid, Elite Singles, Dating Buzz, that for me irritates me beyond belief.

 

 

Its extremely difficult not to feel down about that.

[GemmaUK]

Back when I was in your 23-28 age range I had no children, had not been married, was an avid news watcher, when I was a child I used to read encyclopaedias even.

I still educate myself for fun to this day.

 

I read your other thread on how you go about a date and it sounded a bit like an interview to me.

I know about general knowledge but I can honestly say that in all the relationships I have been in it's not a common topic of discussion and on dates I would be bored.

On a date I want to have fun. If I can't laugh and have fun with someone then they are never going to be a partner of mine.

You also mentioned you have a very dry sense of humour but I am wondering from this thread whether that's verging on a bitter sense of humour. That would be a turn off to most people.

 

You have said that you are a nice kind guy too but I don't know of any nice kind guys who refer to someone who is overweight as a blue whale nor any of the other words you have used to describe them.

I'm slim myself but I still find that highly offensive.

[elaine567]

I swipe everyone and surprise it the least suitable people who like me back, the same is reflected at OKCupid, Elite Singles, Dating Buzz, that for me irritates me beyond belief.

 

OK, I guess those "undesirable", multiple baggage women are either "liking" you only because you are "liking" them, or something about your pics/profile is attracting them.

 

What image of yourself are you presenting?

Forget your basic looks, do you look young and cool?

Do you dress fashionably?

Do you look like someone a 23-28 would date?

Or is your look a bit dated and staid perhaps?

Is your fashion sense leaning more towards the guys you hang about with ie 10-15 years older or are you on trend?

 

A 23 year old is 8 years your junior, she will have her eye on fashion and will be used to looking at guys in their mid to late twenties for dates.

She is not want to be seen dead with a guy who dresses like her dad, no matter how "classic" it may seem to you.

 

If you are attracting single mother types, could it be because you look like "father to their kids" material, as opposed to bf material to truly single women.

 

I guess this 10-15 years older mentality, you have no doubt acquired is not going to be attractive to the 23-28 yo demographic either.

 

Young women who date older guys, are often attracted to guys that may be older in years, but act like themselves - similar mentality - Peter Pan types basically.

 

Few truly want to date "their dad", unless they have daddy issues and that is a baggage you may want to avoid too

[ZA Dater]

Back when I was in your 23-28 age range I had no children, had not been married, was an avid news watcher, when I was a child I used to read encyclopaedias even.

I still educate myself for fun to this day.

 

I read your other thread on how you go about a date and it sounded a bit like an interview to me.

I know about general knowledge but I can honestly say that in all the relationships I have been in it's not a common topic of discussion and on dates I would be bored.

On a date I want to have fun. If I can't laugh and have fun with someone then they are never going to be a partner of mine.

You also mentioned you have a very dry sense of humour but I am wondering from this thread whether that's verging on a bitter sense of humour. That would be a turn off to most people.

 

You have said that you are a nice kind guy too but I don't know of any nice kind guys who refer to someone who is overweight as a blue whale nor any of the other words you have used to describe them.

I'm slim myself but I still find that highly offensive.

 

What exactly is fun, its a very broad term? Am I fun, if I am honest I would say I am not based on my own interpretation of the word and maybe this is where most of the problem lies, how does one be fun exactly?

 

 

I'd say laughing is fun but I may be wrong. I once went a hiking date, could that be termed fun?

 

 

What are you supposed to talk about on dates, I thought it was about finding out about the person whilst trying to sell ones attributes(I hate selling).

 

 

Do I feel bitter, yes to some degree but if you walked in my shoes you would be too.

 

 

Nice guy I suppose is subjective and my issue with large people is again born out of frustration with the sheer number I seem to attract on sites and their refusal to accept I am not interested, make no mistake I am very polite about it and don't refer to them as large species, that were purely used here to emphasize something.

 

 

I look at each day as a new start and to improve on the past day by understanding mistakes made and trying to correct them. I firmly believe with dedication you can succeed at most things but dating isn't about that because no matter what I try the outcome is never any better, which amounts to putting ones hand in boiling hot water, it hurts the first time, you are less likely to do it a second time but you do anyway, the result is the same and by the third time its like 'why bother, I am not getting anything positive out of this experience".

 

 

A friendly aptly said "he is a nice guy but has no confidence" which is true, you cannot build confidence if every experience is terrible and I cant believe each and every time it was MY fault it turned out badly.

 

 

At the end of the day I go to work, spend 9-10 hour working, come home, work on more projects just because if I don't do something I like a complete looser, I don't go out for the same reason, just feel like a total misfit with nothing to add at all. All of this being due to very bad experiences.

 

 

No, going out with someone I don't like wont make me feel any better, which is what's being preached here.

[ZA Dater]

OK, I guess those "undesirable", multiple baggage women are either "liking" you only because you are "liking" them, or something about your pics/profile is attracting them.

 

What image of yourself are you presenting?

Forget your basic looks, do you look young and cool?

Do you dress fashionably?

Do you look like someone a 23-28 would date?

Or is your look a bit dated and staid perhaps?

Is your fashion sense leaning more towards the guys you hang about with ie 10-15 years older or are you on trend?

 

A 23 year old is 8 years your junior, she will have her eye on fashion and will be used to looking at guys in their mid to late twenties for dates.

She is not want to be seen dead with a guy who dresses like her dad, no matter how "classic" it may seem to you.

 

If you are attracting single mother types, could it be because you look like "father to their kids" material, as opposed to bf material to truly single women.

 

I guess this 10-15 years older mentality, you have no doubt acquired is not going to be attractive to the 23-28 yo demographic either.

 

Young women who date older guys, are often attracted to guys that may be older in years, but act like themselves - similar mentality - Peter Pan types basically.

 

Few truly want to date "their dad", unless they have daddy issues and that is a baggage you may want to avoid too

 

I present who I am, a guy who enjoys being outdoors, keeping fit, swimming, enjoys fast cars. Doesn't drink and doesn't club too much.

 

 

As for dress style, the last date said I looked "dapper" which I thought was a nice complement, I don't wear jeans, nothing too trendy but I don't wear tweed jackets either so I definitely don't dress older. As with everything I do, I don't follow a trend I be who I am. Cool is subjective so I have no idea if I look cool or not.

 

 

Looks wise I am 31 but many people say I barely look 20, cant do much about that one. I have extremely short shaved hair.

 

 

The rub is you can find a mature 23-28yo, I have met two of them, the one I actually thought was 35 and it turned out she was in fact 23. They do exist.

[Sarabi]

"he is a nice guy but has no confidence"

 

 

Ok. It will be the hardest thing in the world to do but honestly, you HAVE TO TRY and just fake it, til you make it.

Honestly. It's hard definitely but try faking the confidence, seriously. Believe in yourself. Believe that you will get/are worthy of a great relationship with a great woman (don't put all those silly boxticking blockers in place, just hope for the best).

Smile when you don't feel like smiling. When you feel bitter just think about how all the bad experiences were IN THE PAST and should have absolutely no reason to affect any relationship you have in your future (try to let them go).

 

Don't settle for dates if you don't want them and be torturing yourself but be open minded when you do go for others...if someone doesn't tick all 10 boxes then 6 or 7 is cool. Am sure you do not tick all of their ten boxes either if they have any...nobody does.

 

And to quote Cinderella: Have courage and be kind my friend

[ZA Dater]

 

Ok. It will be the hardest thing in the world to do but honestly, you HAVE TO TRY and just fake it, til you make it.

Honestly. It's hard definitely but try faking the confidence, seriously. Believe in yourself. Believe that you will get/are worthy of a great relationship with a great woman (don't put all those silly boxticking blockers in place, just hope for the best).

Smile when you don't feel like smiling. When you feel bitter just think about how all the bad experiences were IN THE PAST and should have absolutely no reason to affect any relationship you have in your future (try to let them go).

 

Don't settle for dates if you don't want them and be torturing yourself but be open minded when you do go for others...if someone doesn't tick all 10 boxes then 6 or 7 is cool. Am sure you do not tick all of their ten boxes either if they have any...nobody does.

 

And to quote Cinderella: Have courage and be kind my friend

 

I agree with most of what you say, the bold part is the hard thing. I can do it with the right person but for the most part it just doesn't work. I am never going to be able to ask a random person out or talk to some random person in a club, I just cannot unless they talk to me first and chances when that has happened I have ended up saying something really stupid and feeling like a total idiot afterwards.

[Sarabi]

Are you a member of Meetup? Do you have meetups in Cape Town? You must do. People tend to strike up conversation there so you might not have to do all the hard work. If you do have Meetup, join an expat one maybe (I remember reading a post of yours a long time ago about how you do not like women from the majority population of your country so...maybe an expat one will be geared toward your tastes, plus they should mostly be educated etc. )

 

Do you like dancing? If you can find a salsa (or bachata, merengue etc.) class my goodness, you will never be short of female attention.

 

Clubs, really? do you want a girl from a club??? If you mean nightclubs I wouldn't say this is the best place to meet what you would like...

[Sarabi]

Anyway, back to the confidence thing. Repeat these positive things to yourself several times a day (no matter how silly it sounds).

There's people out there who might not have the things you have. They may not have your looks/body/intelligence/mannerisms/as good a job as you etc. but they still have confidence. I'm not picking at them to say they have no right to feel good about themselves but you should be inspired to feel good about yourself too.

Being rejected? Hard definitely, hurtful as well...but it's a step out of the way to the one who is going to be right for you eventually. At least its not time wasted on someone who didn't really want you...

[ZA Dater]

Anyway, back to the confidence thing. Repeat these positive things to yourself several times a day (no matter how silly it sounds).

There's people out there who might not have the things you have. They may not have your looks/body/intelligence/mannerisms/as good a job as you etc. but they still have confidence. I'm not picking at them to say they have no right to feel good about themselves but you should be inspired to feel good about yourself too.

Being rejected? Hard definitely, hurtful as well...but it's a step out of the way to the one who is going to be right for you eventually. At least its not time wasted on someone who didn't really want you...

 

 

I think there is some degree of truth in all of the above. BTW, Meetup doesn't seem like such a bad idea, will investigate that a bit more and see what's up with that.

 

 

I agree one needs to have a certain degree of confidence and I do when it comes to work and the projects I work on but when it comes to ladies, it just disappears mostly and is replaced by awkwardness, though twice I was fine, again because the people I was talking to I found interesting and I liked them.

 

 

At this stage I am left wondering if all this is really worth it, am left regretting the sacrifices I made for studying and the fact there are many things I would have done differently. Fact is I just need to try and work with what I have now, either commit and take more risks or walk away from the game completely.

 

 

Its that question which keeps me awake at night.

[GemmaUK]

What exactly is fun, its a very broad term? Am I fun, if I am honest I would say I am not based on my own interpretation of the word and maybe this is where most of the problem lies, how does one be fun exactly?

 

 

Maybe we need basics here?

Wanna go skim some stones?

That's fun - or it is for me - but I'm older than you at 46..

I like feeding the ducks too and I buy bread especially for that but I don't skim stones in that pond as I don't want to frighten the beautiful ducks.

I have done both for dates btw.

 

What do you do for fun ZA?

 

By the way I am pretty rubbish at skimming but I still love doing it!

Edited July 19, 2015 by GemmaUK

[ZA Dater]

Maybe we need basics here?

Wanna go skim some stones?

That's fun - or it is for me - but I'm older than you at 46..

I like feeding the ducks too and I buy bread especially for that but I don't skim stones in that pond as I don't want to frighten the beautiful ducks.

I have done both for dates btw.

 

What do you do for fun ZA?

 

By the way I am pretty rubbish at skimming but I still love doing it!

 

Odd as this may sound I am very much goal driven so I take the hardship which comes from chasing goals, so in essence I am always looking to improve something all the time, for me I would guess that could be termed fun, when you actually achieve what you set out to achieve.

 

 

When it comes to challenges I don't ever give up, you could say I am determined.

 

 

I agree, walks in nature, swimming, surfing, running, cycling, fast driving, I do all these to lesser or greater degrees.

 

 

I wouldn't have an issue with planning lovely dates, rather sadly its something I often think about, there are some great places here, one where you can walk among exotic butterflies, other where with exotic birds and lions and monkeys, then there are lovely wine farms.

 

 

This thread has made me think that maybe I should try something different, my usual MO is to show in actions I like someone, for example send the flowers but perhaps I need to actually tell them I like them.

 

 

(Assuming I find one I do like)

 

 

There are a great many things I would be willing to try and do with "the right person" because in many ways I would be taking down the wall I construct, I do this mainly because I just get rejected all the time, yes the last person I pulled that wall down and it went ok.

 

 

I like to understand how things work, even if I need to sit and figure it out, the thing is I don't think anyone understands how dating works and the fact I cant understand it either is just frustrating.

 

 

Probably where the problem really comes in is I think almost anyone can be wooed.

 

 

With all that said if someone asked me now what I would want most, it would be this: a chance with the last nice person I met, two dates and if it still doesn't work I will walk away knowing I did the best I could.

[ZA Dater]

Decided I am actually going to ask instead of try and guess and second guess. Hopefully I can get something right for a change.