Had a coffee date.

[Qboro90]

Oh for God's sake, the OP wasn't attracted to her! He did not feel enough chemistry to want to pursue it......why the hell are you arguing with him about HIS feelings? Or lack thereof. If he needs a woman to be a bit of a challenge to him.....intellectually or otherwise..... that is HIS prerogative.

 

Are you actually suggesting he continue dating her knowing he's not into it, into her? That's called "stringing a woman along" in my book. Ugh.

 

OP, just keep going, meeting and dating others. It's a numbers game. DON'T settle.

 

 

I'm not sure if you are aware of ZA Daters previous posts in this forum. This isn't the first time he's been unimpressed on a first date and looking for advice and communication from readers here. I am suggesting that he learn more about what he likes and dislikes rather than having an "impossible to ever measure up mental checklist" of the ideal woman. Have you ever gone on a 2nd or 3rd date with someone and thought "you know what, I initially wasn't really attracted to this guy or thought he had anything to offer, but the more I get to know him the more I think we are really similar/compatible.

 

Just by him saying that he might change his goal/mindset towards dating to aiming for the "friend zone" should tell you that there is more than a little self conscious/ insecurities coupled with his less than stellar roster of first dates. Do you read the first page of a book and decide if you're going to love it or not? Or would you read a couple chapters before putting it down? All I'm saying is that his dating instincts up until this point have gotten him where exactly? Time to start trying different approaches.

 

Who knows what can happen. I've even been on a date with a girl and had her say to me "you know what, I think we both know there isn't anything here between us. But I actually think you and my friend Jenna would really get along. Is it weird if I give her your number?" That led to me dating "Jenna" for close to a year simply because I gave the first girl a shot and she surprised me with something I never expected. It's not like you're emotionally crippling or abusing these women by going on another 2-4 dates together. Your "stringing them along" comment seems a bit drastic and dramatic. The handful of meals or time they spend together won't turn their worlds upside down as some moral betrayal.

[ZA Dater]

I think some of the above posts miss the point slightly. I am either interested or I am not. What makes me interested I have no idea but some people I just meet and I like them and get on superbly with them from the get go.

 

 

I am somewhat cynical, yes I am, do I care, yes I do.

 

 

A book is a bad analogy to use, I am busy writing one at the moment and if the reader isn't interested from page 1 then they are simply going to put the book back on the shelf, that's a fairly universal fact related to publishing.

 

 

For three years I chased a co worker, a really amazing person in virtually every respect, granted she wasn't single for most of that time but I did get one date with her, I took her to a supercar track event, which she enjoyed, then I took her to lunch, the appeal had waned a bit but she still made me feel special and did every day when I saw her at the office.

 

 

This is what I trying to convey, people intangibly make me feel special, it could be stupid things like the way they engage me in conversation, a smile, confidence, those things which cant be gauged always by looking at a picture.

 

 

Does all this mean I feel some of the comments above are wrong, not at all, perspective is always a good thing and opinions are always valued.

 

 

Am I am interesting person, probably not conventionally a childhood interest in politics and world affairs saw to that. A lot has been said about

'miss perfect" the reason I find her so attractive is simple, she stands out, she isn't like other 25yo's, she is worldly smart, outgoing and doesn't camp in clubs and bars at weekends. Overall its her combination of personality, intelligence allied to natural looks which so impressed me, in other words its the whole. Basically every time we chatted I was forced to be outgoing which I liked, I felt confidence around her because she radiated it, my mind worked because she challenged me and our sense of humour were not too far removed. In short there is common ground and I feel comfortable around her.

 

 

All of the above is largely irrelevant based on the fact I have been useless at wooing her, even slightly.

 

 

Many, man things keep me awake at night and the fact I couldn't woo someone like this is one of the more prominent ones.

 

 

I then go onto Elite singles, look around, try my very, very best, msg people and what I get back is just the same all tired stuff I find on every dating site, "Why don't you drink, why don't you club" People find those things odd.

 

 

Trying other people who I just don't click with out like clothes doesn't interest me at all if that's whats needed I am out of this game, which as someone else posted "might be the best for you and every female you come across"

[GemmaUK]

In your first post you were not that interested in her anyway before meeting.

You can't expect a good date/meet if you are not at least interested.

Your first impression won't alter - it's rare if it does.

 

Also, you have never yet dated so how do you know what type of woman you want to date?

Different people lead to way different types of dating.

[ZA Dater]

Good lord man give these women a chance. You knock them down after meeting for an hour tops. This isn't a rom-com, you're not going to fall in love at first sight. Ever consider that maybe they're nervous and not quite comfortable enough to have a real conversation with you yet? You're never going to find someone if you never let your guard down for a second and allow someone to get through to you.

 

I will tell you why I don't give more of a chance, simply because I am never given more of a chance by the ones I do like. That's why.

[GemmaUK]

I will tell you why I don't give more of a chance, simply because I am never given more of a chance by the ones I do like. That's why.

 

 

Whoa! Seriously??!!

If this is your MO I'm not surprised.

Why not treat as you wish to be treated instead of dis people as others have not been nice to you?

[ZA Dater]

Whoa! Seriously??!!

If this is your MO I'm not surprised.

Why not treat as you wish to be treated instead of dis people as others have not been nice to you?

 

I thought I would get a reaction. Sure I do give them a chance within one meet up and sure if I like them I will see them again but why afford more of an opportunity than I myself have been afforded? Most of the time I don't get the option of seeing them again anyway.

 

 

I am extremely pleasant nice and friendly and I do put my best foot forward but as mentioned countless times that never counts for anything.

 

 

Yet there is q of over weight, 2 kids at home, dead end job, desperate 30+yo's who would love nothing more than to meet me.

 

 

Frustrating, yes it is.

[IronZ]

Whoa! Seriously??!!

If this is your MO I'm not surprised.

Why not treat as you wish to be treated instead of dis people as others have not been nice to you?

 

With that attitude you'll never get anywhere. Sorry to be blunt but you need to face reality. Either give some of these women a chance or don't waste their time.

[angel.eyes]

I think some of the above posts miss the point slightly. I am either interested or I am not. What makes me interested I have no idea but some people I just meet and I like them and get on superbly with them from the get go.

 

Honestly, it's you that's missing the point completely since you've never really dated. Interest isn't an on-off binary switch. Sometimes, you can start off somewhat neutral about someone, but after a second date when her personality shines through and you learn more about her, you start to fall for her. You yourself said that your interest in a co-worker you really liked on your first date waned by your second date.

 

No one is advocating that you get into a relationship with someone who doesn't interest you. What I (and I think others) suggest is that, when the person checks all your boxes at the outset as this woman did, you give things a little more time (i.e. another date or two), get to know the person a little better, and then make a decision.

 

All of the above is largely irrelevant based on the fact I have been useless at wooing her, even slightly.

This goes right back to my earlier comment. It's simply nuts to expect to score your very first goal at the World Cup when you've refused to play even one game your whole life and aren't even sure of the rules of the game.

 

she isn't like other 25yo's

Hmm. I didn't know what to make of your repeated complaint that everyone just wants to drink, party and go to bars, that is until this. Most people looking for a LTR, as you are, would not be getting hammered at bars and parties as their primary method of finding someone. What age range are you pursuing? Are these women in the same life stage?

 

Anyway, it's your life. You've ignored and argued ad nauseam with advice and feedback in thread after thread, and refused to change anything. Subconsciously, you're probably comfy being alone, and may even prefer that. Anyone who truly wanted a partner would have retooled their approach long ago. It's been a decade of getting nowhere. Carry on.

[angel.eyes]

I will tell you why I don't give more of a chance, simply because I am never given more of a chance by the ones I do like. That's why.

 

Okay then! Acquire some sturdy knitting needles, good quality Argyll yarn, and hunker down with a dozen cats.

 

You're the only losing in this petty, immature game of yours.

[angel.eyes]

I am extremely pleasant nice and friendly and I do put my best foot forward but as mentioned countless times that never counts for anything.

 

 

Yet there is q of over weight, 2 kids at home, dead end job, desperate 30+yo's who would love nothing more than to meet me.

 

 

Frustrating, yes it is.

 

Aren't you 30+ yourself???

 

Who finds you "extremely pleasant and nice?" Please note: self-evaluations don't count. The fact that you aren't getting any traction in the dating world would suggest otherwise. As do your posts.

 

Anyway, over and out since you aren't really looking for help or to change.

[ZA Dater]

Honestly, it's you that's missing the point completely since you've never really dated. Interest isn't an on-off binary switch. Sometimes, you can start off somewhat neutral about someone, but after a second date when her personality shines through and you learn more about her, you start to fall for her. You yourself said that your interest in a co-worker you really liked on your first date waned by your second date.

 

No one is advocating that you get into a relationship with someone who doesn't interest you. What I (and I think others) suggest is that, when the person checks all your boxes at the outset as this woman did, you give things a little more time (i.e. another date or two), get to know the person a little better, and then make a decision.

 

 

This goes right back to my earlier comment. It's simply nuts to expect to score your very first goal at the World Cup when you've refused to play even one game your whole life and aren't even sure of the rules of the game.

 

 

Hmm. I didn't know what to make of your repeated complaint that everyone just wants to drink, party and go to bars, that is until this. Most people looking for a LTR, as you are, would not be getting hammered at bars and parties as their primary method of finding someone. What age range are you pursuing? Are these women in the same life stage?

 

Anyway, it's your life. You've ignored and argued ad nauseam with advice and feedback in thread after thread, and refused to change anything. Subconsciously, you're probably comfy being alone, and may even prefer that. Anyone who truly wanted a partner would have retooled their approach long ago. It's been a decade of getting nowhere. Carry on.

 

1: Ok, there are two rules here, ladies reserve the right to instantly reject after one date but guys need to go on for date after date, hoping some interest appears or flourishes.

 

 

2: The co worker did very much interest me, I got one date with her primarily because I was honest, she told me her ex dumped her and I gave me opinion of him, she was back with him the following week. Game over there.

 

 

3: The person the subject of this thread DID NOT tick all my boxes, not even half of them, she was nice yes but she didn't tick my boxes at all.

 

 

4: Ok so there are rules, what might those be? Here I thought the objective was to market oneself to someone one likes in the hope they may like you too. Guess I missed this class in school. I refuse to play games where the players are not what I desire.

 

 

5: My age range is 23-28.

 

 

6: Amazing this retooling, think whatever you want of me, which clearly isn't much but I'd rather sit on my own than have to sit talking to someone who has poor general knowledge, poor vocabulary, no ambition, enough baggage to pack a 747 and looks that don't appeal.

 

 

I'll leave you with this, think about it, perhaps my motto in life will give you some insight or not.

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference."

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

they always talk about how you should never settle, but they also say to lower your standards at times, so i'm confused

[ZA Dater]

Aren't you 30+ yourself???

 

Who finds you "extremely pleasant and nice?" Please note: self-evaluations don't count. The fact that you aren't getting any traction in the dating world would suggest otherwise. As do your posts.

 

Anyway, over and out since you aren't really looking for help or to change.

 

Help being "now you see you need to accept you need to date 4 dozen people to acquire experience because even though experience isn't important it in fact is"

 

 

Yes, I am truly awful person, thanks for taking a moment to point that out, so terribly awful. One would think a guy who hasn't been around town, doesn't drink excessively, has a fairly good career, has good general knowledge, kind and thoughtful, well one would think there would be demand for someone like that, even I did as a spent years studying while working, getting a degree while working.

 

 

Why must I change my identity for the sake of dating? Nobody can tell me why this is necessary, surely people are taken on face value. Just like I sit down with ladies and take them on face value. Then again I must taken people out 4 or 5 times in the hope I may like then, YET I can get rejected after one date, that simply smacks of double standards, nothing more.

[ZA Dater]

they always talk about how you should never settle, but they also say to lower your standards at times, so i'm confused

 

I am feeling in a particularly robust debating mood. Why should one ever lower standards, life is about finding the best you can, improving at what you do, its not about saying "oh well that will do", perhaps the latter attitude is responsible for the high divorce rate world wide.

 

 

Guys by definition are desperate to lesser and greater degrees, most will "fck" anything that walks if it gives them the time of day, there are those of us who will not do that, for moral or other reasons, yet we are held to the same standard as those guys who go through ladies like a teller dishes out burgers at McDonalds.

 

 

Sure, everyone has standards and wants but if I must give ladies 4 or 5 dates then I expect the same courtesy from them. Really that isn't much to ask and any half logical person would agree.

[elaine567]

Seems to me you are not willing to get your hands dirty and do some hard work digging to find the woman of your dreams.

 

You are showing up with a pair of white gloves on and turn on your heel, before you even lay your eyes on a spade.

"Nothing for me here, I said there wouldn't be, and I am correct."

[elaine567]

5: My age range is 23-28.

YOU are 31, why does your age range stop at 28?

[ZA Dater]

YOU are 31, why does your age range stop at 28?

 

Simply because I wouldn't want kids in the next 4- 5 years and if I stop at 28 I weed out many of the single mothers who occupy the 30+ range.

[elaine567]

Simply because I wouldn't want kids in the next 4- 5 years and if I stop at 28 I weed out many of the single mothers who occupy the 30+ range.

 

Can't you just weed out the single mothers anyway?

I guess you are missing out quite a lot of single educated women here.

And you don't want kids till you are at least 36???

[ZA Dater]

Seems to me you are not willing to get your hands dirty and do some hard work digging to find the woman of your dreams.

 

You are showing up with a pair of white gloves on and turn on your heel, before you even lay your eyes on a spade.

"Nothing for me here, I said there wouldn't be, and I am correct."

 

 

I really don't see why this should be "hard work", simply what's good for one should be good for all, if I as some posters suggest should take these people on date after date in the hope I may like them with familiarity then I feel entitled to the same courtesy, then again we are talking about in a perfect world where genders are seen as being equal(which I fully agree with). (you may or may not have seen what I did there).

 

 

Bottom line is by design I am always trying to do the very near impossible, why because for me life is a series of challenges where logic applies, in my mind I have my list of things I like, many of which the normal guy in the street couldn't care about. By the same token I am not someone who ever gives up on anything, I'd rather step back and look at the challenge and decide the best way forward.

 

 

At one stage I simply met up with anyone who was willing to meet up with me, a series of about 12 different dates in 3 months which was good going for me, if somewhat tiresome and at the end of the day I was left despondent because NONE even ticked half the list, one wanted me to pay her to sleep with her, another stood me up halfway through a date, another turned up virtually half naked etc.

 

 

So, when people tell me I need to give people the benefit and look through yes, it does tend to get a reaction from me.

 

 

It probably sounds preposterous but the underlying thing with me and dating is this "I try so hard, surely I too can get the special experience everyone else seems to find so easily" I go out and look at these pair ups, I have been to dinners, seen these pair ups and been thinking "what on earth does she see in him".

[ZA Dater]

Can't you just weed out the single mothers anyway?

I guess you are missing out quite a lot of single educated women here.

And you don't want kids till you are at least 36???

 

OLD does work for me, most of the people there are single mothers and those that aren't just don't tick the other boxes at all, joined Elite Singles in the hope that would be different, to find its actually just the same.

 

 

As always I don't harbour any resentment, I am what I am by my own design and I don't even bother chasing what doesn't appear to be attainable but when I do chase I commit 100% to that, an emotional game of high stakes poker which leaves me on the end of the thrashing each and every time.

 

 

Here is an example of a date I planned in my mind.

 

 

Morning at a lion shelter, followed by lunch and a wine tasting at a wine farm, I don't drink wine myself but I would be happy to try a tasting.

 

 

Another would be joining me and my supercar friends for a track event, again a fancy lunch and the opportunity to experience some extremely fast cars.

 

 

If I am guilty of one fundamental flaw its often I don't really communicate to the ones that do wow me how much I like them, I battle with that, for me its like putting my hand out and because I have been stung so many times I am more reluctant to put my hand out.

 

 

Bottom line I guess I am just extremely complicated....unfortunately.

[elaine567]

If I am guilty of one fundamental flaw its often I don't really communicate to the ones that do wow me how much I like them, I battle with that, for me its like putting my hand out and because I have been stung so many times I am more reluctant to put my hand out.

Bottom line I guess I am just extremely complicated scared....unfortunately.

 

<>>>><<<<>

[ZA Dater]

<>>>><<<<>

 

I'll conceded there may be some merit but only with the wow ones.

[scorpiogirl]

Help being "now you see you need to accept you need to date 4 dozen people to acquire experience because even though experience isn't important it in fact is"

 

 

Yes, I am truly awful person, thanks for taking a moment to point that out, so terribly awful. One would think a guy who hasn't been around town, doesn't drink excessively, has a fairly good career, has good general knowledge, kind and thoughtful, well one would think there would be demand for someone like that, even I did as a spent years studying while working, getting a degree while working.

 

 

Why must I change my identity for the sake of dating? Nobody can tell me why this is necessary, surely people are taken on face value. Just like I sit down with ladies and take them on face value. Then again I must taken people out 4 or 5 times in the hope I may like then, YET I can get rejected after one date, that simply smacks of double standards, nothing more.

 

You know, this really doesn't make you all that amazing. There are plenty of people who meet these requirements. I tried to offer useful advice in your other thread but I see now you just want to whine.

 

You have a misplaced superiority. when you kept talking about your intelligence, I thought you were a Ph.D or something, a lifelong scholar, not someone who just meets MY basic requirements.

 

You need a major attitude adjustment and just like you refuse to budge on your oh-so-high standards, quality women won't budge on theirs for you.

You are your biggest enemy, and just like you won't "settle" for a lesser woman, no woman worth her salt will "settle" for you.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

I wonder if you're realistic in your dating approach. You're in your early thirties and despite numerous first dates, have only had a couple of second dates and nothing beyond that. In your shoes, I might take a little more time to get to know someone (i.e. a second date) before nixing her altogether. I know a guy in his early 70's who is in a similar position to you--numerous first dates, almost no second dates, no relationships. He's still looking for that perfect person to "wow" him who will then reciprocate his interest.

 

You often don't get a great understanding of a person on a first date. Often, in fact, you get a somewhat different impression of the person on a second date, especially if the person was nervous. She checked all your boxes, just not in a "wow" way, whatever "wow" actually means. Per your description she was attractive, friendly, and confident enough to ask you questions. You must have had some exchange with her before, so she had to be a decent communicator.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Perhaps it's time to reexamine your approach? Maybe make some adjustments?

Wow, a guy in his 70's whose never had a girlfriend?

[Qboro90]

23-28 year olds generally aren't looking for what you specify in your checklist. You want an intelligent woman with general knowledge who can intellectually challange you. 23yo just graduated college and is looking for or just starting her 1st post grad job. They're not rhode scholars who have established their careers and are looking for the nice guy to settle down with. You yourself admit you're not what you'd consider "classicly attractive/good looking", yet your targets are 23-28yo's? Cmon now. The odds just aren't in your favor to start so complaining seems like you aren't smart enough to see the logic.

 

Also... Bit**ing about "societies standards" and "the game" is a pointless battle. That's the way it is, sorry but you're not going to change it and can either deal with it and adjust or whine about how the way it "should be". The attitude of "why should I treat them this way when they treat me that way" is childish and immature and I'm sure it's a reason why you've had little-no success thus far. In a perfect world would women treat men with class and be honest without playing games and such?, yea no sh@$. That's a fantasy land and ideal you want and it's never gonna happen. Move past it and be a grown up. Wondering why girls in their early - mid twenties play games is like wondering why infants like crying. That's what they do at that stage of their life.

 

Why don't you try a more detailed and grown up dating site instead of Tinder and Elite Singles? Match.com, Eharmony (I'm not informed at all on OLD so these are al I know but just from General knowledge it seems like that's where people who want serious relationships go to find). Swiping left on Tinder will never work for you because of your incredibly specific likes and dislikes. It's also geared towards a physical attraction and you're looking for an intellectual one. (You may also want to believe you're that special guy who cares about what's on the inside and not the physical beauty as much but I think that's who you want to be perceived as and not who you actually are). Your choice of 23-28yo dating pool suggests that.

 

Oh and not every 29-35yo has kids or a dead end job, etc. Believe it or not dating and finding the right girl/woman takes time and effort. Trial and error until you find the one who is worth it. Complaining about how every girl disappoints you is just immature and unrealistic. Gotta slay a few dragons in order to get to the princess.