katiegrl Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 How direct? "Wanna f*ck?" ?LOL LOL .....no sweets, just initiating a text, planning a date, exactly what YOU do! However, after a couple has become exclusive, there is nothing wrong with her saying "hey, wanna fu*k" once in a while either! :bunny: 1
Redhead14 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 As men, we're basically expected to handle the dates and initiating sex. So the one area a woman can take more of an active interest is by initiating communication between dates. She'll reach out to keep the emotional connection strong (feminine energy), and he'll take action by planning the next date (masculine energy). I mean if you have a guy that's being consistent with dates and taking the lead in the bedroom, the least a woman can do in return is send text messages to him between dates. It's not about expectations. It's about the nature of men and women. A man can negate his natural "instincts" and say he likes it when a woman initiates, but at some point, the natural instinct that has been negated, hasn't been satisfied and he starts to feel somewhat "emasculated" if he's not taking or getting the opportunity to be active in the process. Again, it's about balance and natural tendencies. Women are women and men are men and is based in "nature". Like it or not. It's the same in animals. You can take a wild animal and try to tame it, but you can't really trust them to be tame, they are unpredictable or so "tame" they simply lose themselves, a strong, roaring lion, starts laying around in his cage, lethargic and being a pussy cat. He's lost his "lion like" qualities.
fitnessfan365 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) I agree it should be balanced.... a 50/50 exchange of interest...with both initiating and both responding. This should be natural...and when it's right...it will be. Katie, Here's another perspective for you. Guys usually take care of the dates (plan/pay) and initiating sex most of the time right? So if he's already handling a lot in the relationship, the least a woman can do is send text messages between dates IMO. Since women value communication, it makes sense that the one area they'd be more invested in is keeping the emotional connection strong. That's why she'll reach out and he'll in turn show appreciation by handling the date and seduction. Now that's not to say that a guy should never initiate. But since we're already taking care of a lot in a relationship, women should pick up the slack by initiating communication more from where I'm sitting. It's not about expectations. It's about the nature of men and women. A man can negate his natural "instincts" and say he likes it when a woman initiates, but at some point, the natural instinct that has been negated, hasn't been satisfied and he starts to feel somewhat "emasculated" if he's not taking or getting the opportunity to be active in the process. Again, it's about balance and natural tendencies. Women are women and men are men and is based in "nature". Like it or not. Oh trust me, I am a big fan of gender roles in dating and the natural dynamic between men and women. Also, I'd completely agree if a woman is always initiating AND planning. However, if a woman reaches out with a "Miss u", "How's your day", etc and the guy uses that as an opportunity to ask when she's free and plan the next date they go on, he is still leading and being true to the natural male/female dynamic. Edited July 15, 2015 by fitnessfan365 2
katiegrl Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) I think a lot of human nature also comes from conditioning. And as human beings evolve, conditions change. Whereas many years ago, when men were conditioned to always be the pursuer and the woman simply responsive to his pursuit, NOW in 2015, men are becoming conditioned to need and expect a more equal exchange of interest.... Sorry RH we are not animals, we have BRAINS and as such, our brains allow for change in the human condition... I think fitness fan's approach would work well. The woman initiates texts and calls (not too much), thus indicating her interest. NOT hinting, but a direct indication of her interest. He responds by asking her out and planning dates! Perfect equal exchange of interest! But so many women (not all) STILL won't even do that! Expecting the man to do it all. I disagree with that....and no wonder men are so confused these days. And to suggest that a man who is unable to interpret a *hint* lacks confidence or is insecure, or lacks self-esteem is just insulting to men. Edited July 15, 2015 by katiegrl 3
fitnessfan365 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) I think fitness fan's approach would work well. The woman initiates texts and calls (not too much), thus indicating her interest. NOT hinting, but a direct indication of her interest. He responds by asking her out and planning dates! Perfect equal exchange of interest! But so many women (not all) STILL won't even do that! Expecting the man to do it all. I disagree with that....and no wonder men are so confused these days. Exactly. I mean if a guy is planning dates, paying for them, and initiating sex, the least a woman can do is reach out between dates. For everything a woman is getting in return, sending a free text message really isn't that much to ask IMO. Something as simple as "Miss u baby. Can't wait to see u again!' makes a guy feel like a king and that all his effort is being appreciated. Loyalty is a trait that many men (including me) value most in a woman. Edited July 15, 2015 by fitnessfan365 2
smackie9 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 If you are really into them or if they are really into you, then no one should have any issue initiating anything. 4
katiegrl Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Exactly. I mean if a guy is planning dates, paying for them, and initiating sex, the least a woman can do is reach out between dates. For everything a woman is getting in return, sending a free text message really isn't that much to ask IMO. Something as simple as "Miss u baby. Can't wait to see u again!' makes a guy feel like a king and that all his effort is being appreciated. Loyalty is a trait that many men (including me) value most in a woman. I agree. Except it's not so much because "it's the least she can do." She does it because she wants to! Because she feels safe doing so, because he is reciprocating her interest by asking her out! It's like a carefully choreographed dance between them....a give and take .....and when it's right between a couple, its a beautiful dance too!
Redhead14 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Oh for God's sake, NO ONE said or even suggested the woman should do ALL the work....where the hell did THAT come from? And as so many men have attested to, on this board and off, accomplished, confident young men, they don't want *hints" they want DIRECT. They respond to DIRECT. If you don't wish to acknowledge this RH, that's your prerogative...but it might behoove you to start listening to the young men posting on this forum. I agree it should be balanced.... a 50/50 exchange of interest...with both initiating and both responding. This should be natural...and when it's right...it will be. If you don't wish to acknowledge this RH, that's your prerogative...but it might behoove you to start listening to the young men posting on this forum. -- I don't want young men who are still in the process of maturing and learning what does and doesn't work for them or how to read a woman or is hesitant. I want a mature man, who is confident, knows what he wants and if that's me, goes for it. If he does it in a way that works for me, then he's in. Otherwise, he can go and learn some more stuff. I don't want to be their teacher.
fitnessfan365 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 If you don't wish to acknowledge this RH, that's your prerogative...but it might behoove you to start listening to the young men posting on this forum. -- I don't want young men who are still in the process of maturing and learning what does and doesn't work for them or how to read a woman or is hesitant. I want a mature man, who is confident, knows what he wants and if that's me, goes for it. If he does it in a way that works for me, then he's in. Otherwise, he can go and learn some more stuff. I don't want to be their teacher. If the guy is planning dates with you and initiating sex, he is going after what he wants. The question is, how do you show a guy that you're invested in him?
Redhead14 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 If the guy is planning dates with you and initiating sex, he is going after what he wants. The question is, how do you show a guy that you're invested in him? By accepting, doing and reciprocating. That should be enough. What else would a man expect? If she's accepting what he's offering, she's showing that her interest level is there at that point anyway. If he is meeting her early dating needs, she's giving him what he needs and wants too. You call, she answers or calls you back soon if need be. If you doing enough calling and she answering/responding great. It's when they don't respond or do it inconsistently, that's where the confusion starts. If he's leading and I'm following, where's the question? The question comes from a place of insecurity. Even if she's responding and being reciprocal, the man questions it because there's some insecurity and it's not about her. He's not focusing on what's in front of him, he's replaying a past negative scenario. And, I get where you are coming from. Your question is coming from a place where you've probably encountered women who are not focused on their needs and don't know what they want and so they give mixed signals. Playing hard to get, etc. But the mixed signals are signals that you should move on from. If she's not clear in her head, she not being clear enough to you. Why try to get into her head. It's probably a dark place anyway . . . 1
fitnessfan365 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 By accepting, doing and reciprocating. That should be enough. What else would a man expect? If she's accepting what he's offering, she's showing that her interest level is there at that point anyway. If he is meeting her early dating needs, she's giving him what he needs and wants too. You call, she answers or calls you back soon if need be. If you doing enough calling and she answering/responding great. It's when they don't respond or do it inconsistently, that's where the confusion starts. If he's leading and I'm following, where's the question? The question comes from a place of insecurity. Even if she's responding and being reciprocal, the man questions it because there's some insecurity and it's not about her. He's not focusing on what's in front of him, he's replaying a past negative scenario. This logic still seems REALLY one sided IMO. If a guy is the one always reaching out, always planning, always paying, and initiating sex, what exactly is she doing besides showing up? Like I said, I like traditional gender roles and a woman that appreciates that dynamic. But I don't want to be in anything one sided either. A relationship is supposed to be about mutual give and take. 3
jen1447 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 I think I disagree with this. If you let the man take a lead and you are just being receptive, you are allowing the man to have all the power. For cheaters for example this is really convenient. They call you and text you when it's suitable for them since you never initiate contact. I also think that coming across as passive doesn't look that good. All confident woman I know are not afraid to initiate contact. The only thing is that a man has to be receptive and enthusiastic when you initiate. Obviously you shouldnt text him multiple times if he is not responding. One of good ways to test a man in early dating stages is how responsive he is to your random contact. I just see not initiating advice often on LS... Agree or disagree? Agree. In the modern age (unfettered by archaic social norms), there's no reason for women to sit on the sidelines and wait for life to happen to them. If you are really into them or if they are really into you, then no one should have any issue initiating anything. Beauty of simplicity. 2
Grumpybutfun Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 It's not about expectations. It's about the nature of men and women. A man can negate his natural "instincts" and say he likes it when a woman initiates, but at some point, the natural instinct that has been negated, hasn't been satisfied and he starts to feel somewhat "emasculated" if he's not taking or getting the opportunity to be active in the process. Again, it's about balance and natural tendencies. Women are women and men are men and is based in "nature". Like it or not. It's the same in animals. You can take a wild animal and try to tame it, but you can't really trust them to be tame, they are unpredictable or so "tame" they simply lose themselves, a strong, roaring lion, starts laying around in his cage, lethargic and being a pussy cat. He's lost his "lion like" qualities. Ah, the quintessential men must act like animals/beasts theory in order to be masculine. I'm the poster man for traditional masculine...Hunter.... Leader...Logical...Competitive...fighter...traditional..protector...provider....dominant..high sex count...and I still like /liked when a woman is/was bold enough to pursue me. Passive submissives aren't a turn on to some men. I like fire. Passion. Passive women who play into ill conceived passive feminine roles to the detriment of being an individual with her own desires and the confidence to pursue them doesn't interest me. Powerful men like powerful women who can be partners. Be careful that you don't confuse stereotypes and sexism with masculinity. People who ideologically build neat little boxes and think in only black and white terms seem to get disappointed and disenchanted with reality. Men aren't animals. If you believe that men are just primal creatures with no real evolvement or internal feelings, you are mistaken. Our natural instincts aren't dampened by a woman pursuing us, or asking us for sex or a date or for marriage. We still provide and protect and want to dominate even when we have met our equal. Women can still be feminine and be decisive about what she wants in life. That doesn't detract from her beauty or her desirability. Grunt or roar, Grumps 4
katiegrl Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Ah, the quintessential men must act like animals/beasts theory in order to be masculine. I'm the poster man for traditional masculine...Hunter.... Leader...Logical...Competitive...fighter...traditional..protector...provider....dominant..high sex count...and I still like /liked when a woman is/was bold enough to pursue me. Passive submissives aren't a turn on to some men. I like fire. Passion. Passive women who play into ill conceived passive feminine roles to the detriment of being an individual with her own desires and the confidence to pursue them doesn't interest me. Powerful men like powerful women who can be partners. Be careful that you don't confuse stereotypes and sexism with masculinity. People who ideologically build neat little boxes and think in only black and white terms seem to get disappointed and disenchanted with reality. Men aren't animals. If you believe that men are just primal creatures with no real evolvement or internal feelings, you are mistaken. Our natural instincts aren't dampened by a woman pursuing us, or asking us for sex or a date or for marriage. We still provide and protect and want to dominate even when we have met our equal. Women can still be feminine and be decisive about what she wants in life. That doesn't detract from her beauty or her desirability. Grunt or roar, Grumps Well said...
fitnessfan365 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Ah, the quintessential men must act like animals/beasts theory in order to be masculine. I'm the poster man for traditional masculine...Hunter.... Leader...Logical...Competitive...fighter...traditional..protector...provider....dominant..high sex count...and I still like /liked when a woman is/was bold enough to pursue me. Passive submissives aren't a turn on to some men. I like fire. Passion. Passive women who play into ill conceived passive feminine roles to the detriment of being an individual with her own desires and the confidence to pursue them doesn't interest me. Powerful men like powerful women who can be partners. Be careful that you don't confuse stereotypes and sexism with masculinity. People who ideologically build neat little boxes and think in only black and white terms seem to get disappointed and disenchanted with reality. Men aren't animals. If you believe that men are just primal creatures with no real evolvement or internal feelings, you are mistaken. Our natural instincts aren't dampened by a woman pursuing us, or asking us for sex or a date or for marriage. We still provide and protect and want to dominate even when we have met our equal. Women can still be feminine and be decisive about what she wants in life. That doesn't detract from her beauty or her desirability. Grunt or roar, Grumps REALLY AWESOME post. Might be candidate for post of the thread actually.
Redhead14 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Ah, the quintessential men must act like animals/beasts theory in order to be masculine. I'm the poster man for traditional masculine...Hunter.... Leader...Logical...Competitive...fighter...traditional..protector...provider....dominant..high sex count...and I still like /liked when a woman is/was bold enough to pursue me. Passive submissives aren't a turn on to some men. I like fire. Passion. Passive women who play into ill conceived passive feminine roles to the detriment of being an individual with her own desires and the confidence to pursue them doesn't interest me. Powerful men like powerful women who can be partners. Be careful that you don't confuse stereotypes and sexism with masculinity. People who ideologically build neat little boxes and think in only black and white terms seem to get disappointed and disenchanted with reality. Men aren't animals. If you believe that men are just primal creatures with no real evolvement or internal feelings, you are mistaken. Our natural instincts aren't dampened by a woman pursuing us, or asking us for sex or a date or for marriage. We still provide and protect and want to dominate even when we have met our equal. Women can still be feminine and be decisive about what she wants in life. That doesn't detract from her beauty or her desirability. Grunt or roar, Grumps I do not discount your attitude or theory. However, it is filled with masculine energy which is intended to negate rather than compliment the feminine energy and perspective. Receptivity is not passiveness. Receptivity comes from a point of being centered and focused on a womans needs and she evaluates whether her needs are being met by the man. Part of that is about his masculinity. I never said a woman shouldn't initiate. I said she should do that if she is so inclined, but she shouldn't overshadow his masculinity. She should compliment and balance it by giving the control back to him at some point soon after the initiation. Balance. If you want to build a fire you need a fuel source (wood , heat, and Oxygen. If the man brings the fuel source and the heat, she will give you all the Oxygen you need.
phineas Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 If a guy is a player, he couldn't care less if he initiates 100% of the time. In fact, it's much more convinient to do so. He has no issue with rejections as he is not invested and has plenty more where that came from. If a guy is sincere, he is likely to feel a bit hurt if he has to do all the initiating. Sure a woman can be receptive but he will wonder if this woman never randomly thinks of him or desires contact. It's going to be a turn off and can actually kill the spark while a clearly expressed interest would fuel it. It's actually a lose-lose proposition for women. My dad was the one who offered this insight This is pretty much how I feel when I meet women who show zero interest and don't even call me back. I just lose interest, but at least 3 times someone tried to fix me up with a friend and each time I thought they were not interested because they made zero effort to schedule things so I just stopped trying. Then the people who set us up said she liked me and was disappointed I didn't ask er out again. WTF?!?!? I'd call them 2 or 3 times for a 2nd date but they never called me back. Why would I think they were interested? LOL!
phineas Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Again from one of my brothers (the non player).....many don't get *hints*....they *get* direct. That's true on this board too...men sayin they are bad at picking up hints or signals.....don't know how to interpret because that's not how they operate. Men are naturally more direct. So that's a real problem in dating, isn't it. Women think they are being receptive by "hinting" ..... but men (some not all) not picking up the hint and expecting that if she cares, she be more direct, like him, and actually initiate. So many threads discussing this, yah it's a real problem. And this is why I go for the kiss on a first date now. Because women think they are being obvious they like a guy because they looked a certain way or held their lips differently or drank with their left hand. The only way I know if a woman likes me is if she kisses me. I had a female friend I hung out with in a group. she never showed interest in me at all and if everyone but us cancelled on a bar band or something she'd bail also so I assumed she didn't want to be alone with me and never hit on her. But i'd catch her staring at me sometimes & i'd think I had something in my teeth or a bug in my hair or something and ask her what the hell she's staring at. turned out she liked me. and i'm supposed to know? This is also another woman I know who is passive to the point of letting men she just met put their arm around her in a bar because it's easier than telling him to stop.
Redhead14 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 This logic still seems REALLY one sided IMO. If a guy is the one always reaching out, always planning, always paying, and initiating sex, what exactly is she doing besides showing up? Like I said, I like traditional gender roles and a woman that appreciates that dynamic. But I don't want to be in anything one sided either. A relationship is supposed to be about mutual give and take. Women need a reason, guys only need a place and for her to show up . . . If you give her a reason, she'll show up. That's reciprocal. Where's the question regarding her interest? If a guy is overlooking that and still questioning her interest, the insecurity is coming from another place. He's not looking at what's in front of him, he's stuck in the past. I said it's about balance. She needs to see his interest, she's reciprocating by giving him what he needs, balanced, reciprocal attention/interest. She should only respond in kind and match him. Not go over the top or past him. When she does that she makes him feel like she's too far ahead of him. And, that goes the other way too.
katiegrl Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) I do not discount your attitude or theory. However, it is filled with masculine energy which is intended to negate rather than compliment the feminine energy and perspective. Receptivity is not passiveness. Receptivity comes from a point of being centered and focused on a womans needs and she evaluates whether her needs are being met by the man. Part of that is about his masculinity. I never said a woman shouldn't initiate. I said she should do that if she is so inclined, but she shouldn't overshadow his masculinity. She should compliment and balance it by giving the control back to him at some point soon after the initiation. Balance. If you want to build a fire you need a fuel source (wood , heat, and Oxygen. If the man brings the fuel source and the heat, she will give you all the Oxygen you need. I love how a woman is arguing about how men feel, what men want and desire .... what men respond to....and what OBVIOUSLY works for them! Unbelievable..... Edited July 15, 2015 by katiegrl 2
phineas Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 It's not about expectations. It's about the nature of men and women. A man can negate his natural "instincts" and say he likes it when a woman initiates, but at some point, the natural instinct that has been negated, hasn't been satisfied and he starts to feel somewhat "emasculated" if he's not taking or getting the opportunity to be active in the process. Again, it's about balance and natural tendencies. Women are women and men are men and is based in "nature". Like it or not. It's the same in animals. You can take a wild animal and try to tame it, but you can't really trust them to be tame, they are unpredictable or so "tame" they simply lose themselves, a strong, roaring lion, starts laying around in his cage, lethargic and being a pussy cat. He's lost his "lion like" qualities. well, you can use that nature excuse if you want. But while I know women who won't initiate I know just as many if not more who DO initiate. Attractive women who aren't afraid to let a man know they are interested and find him attractive. Most of the women who do approach me & initiate are usually 7 or more yrs younger than me (early to mid 30's which is a nice bonus also) LOL!
fitnessfan365 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 This is pretty much how I feel when I meet women who show zero interest and don't even call me back. I just lose interest, but at least 3 times someone tried to fix me up with a friend and each time I thought they were not interested because they made zero effort to schedule things so I just stopped trying. Then the people who set us up said she liked me and was disappointed I didn't ask er out again. WTF?!?!? I'd call them 2 or 3 times for a 2nd date but they never called me back. Why would I think they were interested? LOL! Haha.. So true man. I'm the same way as you in that I take things at face value. If a woman doesn't call/text me back, I don't take it as code for try harder and pursue more. I take it as code for her not being interested. I mean who in the hell wants to date somebody that you have to jump through endless hoops for? I often feel like we're supposed to give women free passes for flaky behavior. Like it's embedded in their DNA, and we should just expect it chasing endlessly to prove our interest. But in the end, it's a two way street. 3
Renton Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 I love how a woman is arguing about how men feel, what men want and desire .... what men respond to....and what OBVIOUSLY works for them! Unbelievable..... Ha ha, i roll my eyes when i hear women defining what a real man is. No doubt women do the same when they hear men defining what a real woman is too.
smackie9 Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 IMO if you are jumping through hoops...STOP IT! they are just not that into you then.....no brainer. They don't message back because they don't want to...men do it too. 3
katiegrl Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Ha ha, i roll my eyes when i hear women defining what a real man is. No doubt women do the same when they hear men defining what a real woman is too. I hear ya....BOTH genders do it. Why do you think that is? I mean I know why.... but still. Boggles the mind.... Edited July 15, 2015 by katiegrl
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