Was this email appropriate? Everything feels backwards.

[mrwigand]

My exgf and I broke up, but have had to maintain some contact because she is progressively paying back some money she owes me (I, uh... bailed her out of jail once lol). Anyway, we had been on good terms, but the last time we saw each other I felt like she went out of her way to show me pictures of her and new boyfriend. We had just met so she could pay me back and I casually asked her how weekend was. She said it was great and that she wanted to show me pictures of this costume party she went to. She starts cycling through the pics on her phone... Fine, fine... Then bam, she goes through a series of pics with her and her boyfriend.

 

I don't know, it felt a little manufactured, and I certainly had a gut-wrenching reaction to seeing that, which I held in. But I guess the uncomfortability was written on my face, because as soon as we parted ways she texted me if everything was alright. I told her it was. At this point, we were on very friendy terms, and she would invite to do things occasionally, etc. But I just felt that if I had a reaction like I did to seeing she was with someone that I still needed legitimate space to really get over everything. So I sent her this email:

 

"Hey, I finally got a free moment at work and just wanted to touch base with you about yesterday... It was no secret that I was affected by those pictures you showed me, and though seeing that stuff made me uncomfortable, I'm very clear about where we stand and know that we will never get back together. I understand that you didn't show me those pictures as a way to make me jealous or anything. But since things like that sometimes do come up post-breakups, I believe it's best that we not hang out or text for a while. And along those lines, it would be really helpful to me if you could drop off the next check at the house as opposed to giving it to me in person. I know that you're a caring and kind person and will understand that this option is the less painful one for me at this point in time. You'll always have a special place in my heart but it's because of that that I need this."

 

She didn't respond to the email, and in general after I sent it she's kind of been treating me like persona non grata. I got back in touch with her a month later, wishing her well and asking if she was good to pay me back another installment of the money like we had previously discussed and she didn't respond to me for almost a week, kind of forcing me to press the issue. When she did get back to me she was very cold and just very much had this tone of "I just want to pay you back I can finally remove you from my life". At the same time, she refused to send or drop off the money and will only give it to me in person. Not a big deal, but it did frustrate me a little because I was trying to maintain a little distance if possible and she basically refused to contemplate it.

 

I don't know. Everything feels backwards. I feel like I tried very hard to communicate to her that I wasn't upset and indeed I still cared about her, and that's why space would be most helpful to me. And I'm just wondering if I did something wrong? I know that question sounds kind of crazy, but the way she's treated me after this has kind of made me question myself.

[TaraMaiden2]

That email?

 

Bad move.

 

Really, really bad move.

You NEVER open up to an ex like that.

It leaves you vulnerable and weakens your psyche.

 

Only maintain absolutely necessary contact with her from now on.

Do not say or write anything at all associated with anything personal between you guys. Ever.

 

Set up a bank transfer/standing order/direct debit so she can carry on paying you back automatically each month until the debt is paid off.

That way, you don't actually have to have any direct contact with her at all.

 

(How much was it for?

How much is still outstanding?)

 

Bad move buddy....

[Satu]

Get the money thing wrapped up as soon as you can, preferably without contact, if thats possible

 

 

And then:

 

 

*No direct contact in either direction. No sending or receiving of messages. No replies. Block any means she might use to contact you.

*No indirect contact through third parties.

*De-friend or delete from all social media.

*No monitoring of her on social media.

*No 'little birds' feeding you news.

*Tell people that you don't want to know anything about what she is doing or saying.

[mrwigand]

Gotcha, thanks for the advice and insight guys.

 

Yeah, this was my first major relationship and hence first major breakup, so I probably was leading with my heart on sleeve very much lol. I'll just chalk it up to a learning experience.

 

So, in terms of "bad move", I can see you guys think that sending that email was maybe on the emo and vulnerable side, and I think that is totally valid. However, I was also wondering in a more basic, practical sense if the email was hurtful or off-base in some way?

[ravfour4]

She's already being a huge bitch to you, who cares that you sent that email, it was the truth and despite everything you were still nice to her. Now she can move forward with that guilt and you can move on with your life. If she ever doubted that you cared, now she knows she was wrong.

[pidgeon1010]

I read that email and cringed. The only thing that email did was to assure her she still has power over you. It was not hurtful at all. On the contrary, I would think it was an ego boost for her. I also don't believe she showed you those pics innocently. I would never do that to an ex I broke up with. The pics plus the fact that she insists on seeing you in person (even though she claims she wants to settle her debts so you can be out of her life) makes me think she is not as caring as you think. She seems to be enjoying making you squirm.

Edited July 12, 2015 by pidgeon1010

[mrwigand]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, and truthfully my first reaction to her showing me the pictures - other than the emotional one - was, "was this really necessary?" It definitely felt like maybe she was trying to thrust something in my face.

 

But I didn't want to lash out or anything, and I still wanted to keep things on good terms while also asking for space.

 

It does frustrate me though because I've been VERY accommodating to her in terms of allowing her more than enough time to pay me back, and she basically refused to consider any other option other than meeting me in person to give me the money, which also seemed odd to me considering tone recently.

 

I guess it's just confusing and more than a little irksome to me, because in my opinion I've gone out of my way to be nice during this process and her almost faux-indignation is just kind of bizarre. It's like she's the one who owes me money because I bailed her out of jail (she was caught shoplifting... it wasn't wrongful imprisonment I assure you). You'd think she could be nicer.

[Satu]

Snip.

 

 

It does frustrate me though because *I've been VERY accommodating to her in terms of allowing her more than enough time to pay me back, and she basically refused to consider any other option other than meeting me in person to give me the money, which also seemed odd to me considering tone recently.

 

I think you've been too accomodating, and she's aware that she has all the power.

 

Don't be so passive.

[aloneinaz]

You really should NOT let her dictate how she reimburses you. To demand that you meet in person demonstrates her character.

 

 

TELL HER that you wish her to transfer the installments or mail you the check/cash. Take charge here.

 

 

How much $ is it? If it's a good amount and she stops sending it or refuses to send the $, be short and sweet in telling her she has X amount of time to send it or you'll take her to small claims court.

 

 

You've been nice enough. Time to take charge here and NOT let her lead you around further..

[quattrob]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, and truthfully my first reaction to her showing me the pictures - other than the emotional one - was, "was this really necessary?" It definitely felt like maybe she was trying to thrust something in my face.

 

But I didn't want to lash out or anything, and I still wanted to keep things on good terms while also asking for space.

 

It does frustrate me though because I've been VERY accommodating to her in terms of allowing her more than enough time to pay me back, and she basically refused to consider any other option other than meeting me in person to give me the money, which also seemed odd to me considering tone recently.

 

I guess it's just confusing and more than a little irksome to me, because in my opinion I've gone out of my way to be nice during this process and her almost faux-indignation is just kind of bizarre. It's like she's the one who owes me money because I bailed her out of jail (she was caught shoplifting... it wasn't wrongful imprisonment I assure you). You'd think she could be nicer.

 

Dude, you're a man right? You sound like a boy, you need to start standing up for yourself. If you were nice and were considerate that's fine but if she doesn't appreciate it nor respect you then you need to stop questioning why she's the way she is or expect respect etc. You need to protect yourself and stop being so nice/accomodating if you cannot accept the fact that she doesn't appreciate it or makes you feel bad.

 

Do yourself a favor and start making your own decisions instead of following what SHE wants. She's the one who owes you money, so you need to make a stand and tell her how she's going to return it back to you and if not then you will do what you must. No more of the pansy stuff TC.

[mightycpa]

Actually, I would send an email and get her to agree in writing how much she owes you.

 

You might go with something like:

 

I've been keeping track of your payments, and I just want to make sure that both of us are on the same page. I calculate that after all of the payments you've made so far, you still owe me $xxxx.

 

You've agreed to pay me monthly, so if you continue to make monthly payments of $yyy then I will be paid off in the month of MMMM, according to the following payment plan:

 

MMM/dd - $yyy remaining balance xxx

MMM/dd - yyy remaining balance xxx

MMM/dd - yyy remaining balance xxx

MMM/dd - yyy remaining balance xxx

MMM/dd - last payment $zzz and you've paid the debt off completely.

 

Let me know if that seems correct to you. Then we'll be done.

 

mightycpa says to do that

Edited July 13, 2015 by mightycpa

[mrwigand]

Ha, good points quattrob and mightycpa. Yeah, I've been trying to stay even keel and prevent things from devolving, but obviously I've allowed myself to get walked on a little. But both of your points are really well taken. I appreciate your and everyone's else advice as well.

 

Like I said, it's certainly my first experience with a really painful breakup and really my first experience with this kind of morass over money, so in the very least it's definitely been a "teachable moment" lol.

[Acacia98]

Your email was not hurtful or anything like that. And, even though it reveals your vulnerability, I don't think that's a catastrophe. You were setting boundaries for future interactions in that email. So, vulnerability or not, it shows you're writing from a position of understanding as to what is good for you.

 

She doesn't mean you well, doesn't like the fact that you're not responding the way she wanted you to. So make no mistake: she's not your friend.

 

I don't know what you're going to do about the money. If it is absolutely necessary that you get it back, you need to be business-like about it. Like other folks are saying, make arrangements for her to pay you that do not involve you meeting up with her. If the amount she owes you right now is a loss that you can afford to absorb, then you may want to consider cutting her completely out of your life. The dynamic of your "friendship" is not healthy for you. I mean, it even has you questioning whether your actions were hurtful when they obviously weren't. In my experience, that kind of self-doubt happens to be the norm in relationships where one person has the upper hand over the other and is a master at manipulation. If you're still vulnerable to being manipulated by her, you really don't wanna interact with her.

 

And you really need to revise your perspective of her. She doesn't sound kind and caring to me. Someone kind and caring would be so grateful you bailed her out that she'd be bending over backwards to pay you back. And she sure as heck wouldn't be showing you pictures of her new boyfriend under some pretext.

[mrwigand]

Thanks for the perspective, Acacia. She's supposed to pay me back this up-coming week, and if all goes well and there is nothing weird, then I think I will stick with it.

 

If for whatever reason things go downhill, I think I'm prepared to let the money go. So, I guess I'll see how it goes this coming week

[mrwigand]

I was feeling VERY good last week, like I was really making progress, “turning a corner”. And then last night happened.

 

I was maintaining very limited contact with my ex-girlfriend so she could pay me back some money. In my opinion, she was handling the situation in a very cold, flaky, borderline evasive way, but I had really detached from her behavior and was just looking forward to being paid back.

 

The process had been difficult before this. I had asked if she could just mail the money or something because I still needed space if possible, and she refused. I relented, but I really had started taking her more resistant behavior personally.

 

We had discussed her paying me back in July several times, and the last time she told me she was out of out town and would contact me on Wednesday to set it up. Wednesday comes around and it’s about 5 pm and she hasn’t gotten touch with me. No big deal. I text her wishing her well and asking her how she wants to handle everything this week. 4 hours later she still hasn’t responded (but I know she’s read the text). That’s when I take the gloves off slightly and text her that I want to solidify the plans as soon as possible. I didn’t want to get terse, but my thought is SHE said she would text me about it, and now I’m being forced to harangue her and I just want to get it settled.

She texts me back basically blowing me off, telling that she’s busy and she would appreciate patience. I was not in the mood to play games so I told her I had been patient, I waited for her to contact me today. She didn’t. So I contacted her, gave her four hours and now I expected a response. I told her she should just decide how she wanted to handle it then she could go back whatever she was doing. She called me to say she’d get me the money, but she didn’t appreciate my rudeness and my “hate”. I basically said I wasn’t being hateful but thanks for saying she would get me the money and then I hung up on her. I didn’t appreciate her calling me to fight, especially after I had told her I wanted distance from everything to begin with. THIS wasn’t distance. She got really pissed and told me a bunch of things… This needed to be civil… She’s dealing with a lot right now and just hasn’t had the time to think about how to deal with the money. I responded with this:

 

“I’ve always been civil. Considering wha you owe and the amount of time you’ve had, I’d love to see behavior you thought was uncivil. Frankly, you’ve taken advantage of my patience and civility, and you’ve been evasive and disrespectful of my boundaries. I told you I wanted distance for myself and you insisted on handing the money off in person. Fine. Then you just called me to tell me I was rude. I’ve asked us to do this via email, but you refused or ignored. Then you call – that’s violating my boundaries please, don’t do it again. Secondly, if you ask me it was rude how YOU said were going to contact me today, seemed to have no intention of doing so, and then when I press for a reasonable answer to my question (which you said you would discuss today) you try to blow me off. You knew I was intending to get paid back at the beginning of July and you knew days ago this conversation was coming. I don’t care how pressing everything else on your mind is. This needs to be pressing on your mind as well.”

 

This just made her more upset and still unwilling to just set a time and move on… She told me how her grandmother was dying or something and she was being forced to deal with it. Obviously, I’m sympathetic to that, but the last time I had tried to have a conversation with her about something she ended things by telling me, “I have nothing to discuss with you other than the money.” So it felt like a double standard… Like we don’t have anything to discuss EXCEPT when you want me to feel sorry for you and not make you pay me back (FOG). So I didn’t really bite. I told her her issues are her own and they have nothing to do with her situation with me, and that she should just be an adult and deal with it. She kept on getting angry about this and that… She said she wasn’t going to let me manipulate her the way I had manipulated her throughout the course of our relationship (whatever…)

At this point, we had been going back and forth for like 10 minutes, and I just told her, “Look, you could have already figured out this situation in the amount of time it’s taken for you to be evasive and hurtful. Get in touch with me when you’re ready to give me the consideration I deserve.”

 

She started saying things like she was going to start calling me on my nonsense, she already brought up my “manipulation” from the relationship. I told her I had no interest in discussing the relationship, but that she didn’t want to go there. She said something critical of the way I handled something, said I put her through a “loop” emotionally with the way I couldn’t decide if we could be friends after the relationship. That’s when I sent her this:

“Oh you mean like the loop of triangulation and pain you put me through with your ex-boyfriend that I never called you out on.” (She had a really toxic, relatonship with an ex that was one of the main soruces of pain in the relationship... I broke up with her because I felt it was a dysfunctional triangle that was really unfair to me.)

 

THAT stopped her dead in her tracks. Suddenly, she was really apologetic, saying she was sorry she put me through that, that I didn’t deserve that baggage but she “trusted me so much.” I didn’t know what to say. I had been waiting for her to say something like that for… EVER. Just to acknowledge that and admit it was unfair to me and it kind of happened.

 

We ended up having this really emotional conversation over the phone, we were both crying hardcore. At first she wanted me to apologize for saying what I did because I was “throwing her past back at her.” But I didn’t. I unloaded everything that happened that I thought was unfair and dysfunctional, most of it relating to stuff with her ex-boyfriend. I unloaded on her for when I asked her not to text her abusive, obsessive ex-boyfriend in front of me constantly, and how when I asked that she attacked ME, said I was insecure, that I didn’t love her enough, that she didn’t know if she could trust me.

 

That’s when the damn really burst. I think she could tell I was upset about a lot of the stuff that went down in regards to that situation with her ex.

She told me the only reason she maintained that constant communication with her ex is because her ex was threatening to kill her the whole time and she was paralyzed with fear. She thought the only way to placate him was to always be responding to him. I was pretty devastated hearing this. I just don’t know what to believe or how to feel about it. If it’s true, I obviously would have supported her. Why didn’t she tell me?

 

It just made me contemplate the “what ifs”. What if she had told me? Could the relationship have survived? Did I really leave the woman I loved because she was afraid of an abusive ex, but I couldn’t see that and I made it about me?

 

I thought I was actually going to get closure from some of this, but it just got worse. She apologized to me for not being more upfront with me about what she needed from me, that she just needed someone to be a friend and love her and “be her strength” through that ordeal… That I just “wasn’t that person and that wasn’t my fault.” I think she thought she was saying something good when she told me that, but honestly it felt terrible. Just another example of how I wasn’t enough (I just wasn’t enough, not my fault though, I could never be enough). I’m not stupid though. The truth is NO partner was ever going to be enough, was ever going to be her strength through that. She had to be her strength.

 

And she admitted that in a roundabout way. She admitted that she eventually realized she had to cut her ex off before she ever be in a relationship with someone again. So she did. And now she’s seeing someone else. Great for that guy I guess. Meanwhile I BEGGED her to cut this person out of her life. And it just sucks because… No matter how much I begged she was never going to be able to do it until she was ready, and now I’m just left with this feeling that there was nothing I could have done. That should make me feel better, right? But it doesn’t.

 

She told me how much she loved me, and it just hurt. It hurts like hell. Just feel very hurt and empty right now from all of this.

[aisuru]

Time to let the money go my friend.

 

Unless, you each worked out an agreement in writing on how she was to repay you in which case you could pursue her in small claims.

 

I personally would let it go because of the emotional cost of continuing to chase down the money. She doesn't want to pay you back and she's not going to if she doesn't have to. It's also providing her leverage to manipulate you and it's working.