ZA Dater Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 This is something I have wanted to ask for a while but seeing as I have nobody I can ask I am going to leave it to the internet and you lovely people to pass judgement. My approach to an actual date was this, I would just like to know if there is anything fundamentally wrong with it. Arrange a date venue at a place convenient for them at a time convenient for them, especially if its an evening meet up I prefer that the lady doesn't have to drive too far to meet me. Usually I would pick a nice place, not cheap, not expensive but somewhere I know makes good coffee/food. Initially I would meet them by a shake of the hand usually, always open the door for them, pull the chair out of them. Immediately I would ask a question, just something to get things going, usually something fairly light hearted, keep good eye contact with them. The I would generally talk to them about most things, take an interest in them, try and perhaps hear their opinion on topics relating to their interests and as such let the conversation flow like this. Eye contact is critical for me, I would keep that and answer any questions they asked me in an honest way. The objective of course would be to garner some interest whilst being sincere and honest. Lets assume this is the perfect scenario (only happened once) and we basically can spend hours chatting about a multitude of things. I would compliment her at appropriate moments. I would always pay the bill, I never let dates pay, would usher her to the door, open the door and then usually walk her to her car. Usually goodbye would be a hug, mostly though they wouldn't really hug me with any conviction, I did have on where she really pulled me hard and that felt quite nice. My question is, in the opinion of those here based on the info above, am I doing anything fundamentally wrong based on the fact I don't really know how to flirt.
Gaeta Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 You forgot the most important which is laugh and have fun. Nothing is wrong in your approach but if it's too rehearsed it won't feel natural. My first meets I enjoyed the most were those fill with laughter. No matter how perfect you are if there is no chemistry there is no point pursuing and chemistry is something that's there or not, you can't create it with a special recipe. 4
darkmoon Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 drop the handshake, seems a bit formal and non-sociable, not anti-social, but just unusual to have a date do that, a ritual that belongs in a business meeting 2
wizer Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 If the date went well and I feel an attraction, I always go for the kiss at the end of the evening. I make eye contact, I smile, and then I move in, making it very clear where I'm going. Sometimes I'll get the cheek, but more often it's the lips. At that point I know we're good for a second date.
Author ZA Dater Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 You forgot the most important which is laugh and have fun. Nothing is wrong in your approach but if it's too rehearsed it won't feel natural. My first meets I enjoyed the most were those fill with laughter. No matter how perfect you are if there is no chemistry there is no point pursuing and chemistry is something that's there or not, you can't create it with a special recipe. I wouldn't know what fun was if it hit me in the face but I do try and laugh and not alternate between the serious and the light hearted. Certain personality types do bring out the best in me, someone who is smart and interests me keeps me on my toes and as such I tend to enjoy a situation more than someone who is very one dimensional and not as smart. Wanted to see if there was anything fundamental wrong with my approach, notwithstanding the fact I have given up... Surely not everything is chemistry? Surely there must be a way to overcome that? Then again as I have said before some people just radiate that and others wont ever.
elaine567 Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 I wouldn't know what fun was if it hit me in the face That may be your basic problem here. Women in general do like fun and they love people who make them laugh. Not everyone likes a slap stick clown, a comedian, a jester or a practical joker, but a good sense of humour is pretty well universally accepted. 2
ScotchBeef Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 I think you are overthinking things. Sure, the list you provided is probably very similar to what most women would expect a gentleman to do on a first date, but if there's no chemistry then you might as well just be her butler. Rather than trying to focus on doing all the courteous stuff perfectly, just focus on trying to create the right kind of connection while making sure you aren't discourteous in any way.
Author ZA Dater Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 Rather than trying to focus on doing all the courteous stuff perfectly, just focus on trying to create the right kind of connection while making sure you aren't discourteous in any way. I have no idea how to do that! Usually if I can get someone to laugh I take it as a good sign, even if they are laughing at me. I have a fairly complicated dry sense of humour which most people don't really catch, one or two have though.
ScotchBeef Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Are these generally dates with people you dont know already? Perhaps I cant quite relate. All my serious relationships have came from dating people i've already known (through work, college etc). It's probably a lot easier to make someone laugh/smile and enjoy themself when you already have a firm-ish idea of what they are like and their sense of humour.
elaine567 Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 I have a fairly complicated dry sense of humour which most people don't really catch, one or two have though. I would have guessed that, that is not unsurprising to me. But a quirky sense of humour, especially a dry one, is not going to be attractive to a lot of people on a first date. That sense of humour can be an acquired taste and as you only have the one date to make a great first impression then most are unlikely to "get" you. Some are going to be put off or even offended too, if it seems to them that your complicated "in" joke is designed to make them appear foolish.
Author ZA Dater Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 I would have guessed that, that is not unsurprising to me. But a quirky sense of humour, especially a dry one, is not going to be attractive to a lot of people on a first date. That sense of humour can be an acquired taste and as you only have the one date to make a great first impression then most are unlikely to "get" you. Some are going to be put off or even offended too, if it seems to them that your complicated "in" joke is designed to make them appear foolish. It did once work where I met someone who had a similar sense of humour to me, no surprise that I quite enjoyed that date, if anything her sense of humour was even more complicated than mine but I managed to pick it out. I never offend people, just my sense of humour can be a bit dry and "matter of fact", i.e. if you don't listen carefully you will miss it. Truthfully yesterday I saw for the purposes of this "the best meet up I ever had" again and once again it was this intellectual backwards and forwards, ever more fancy English a real challenge, someone that confident and that smart challenges me to be confident and actually be who I am without dumbing myself down. I am glad to know that at least I was getting some of the apparent minor details right when it comes to going on a date....however rare those occurrences were(sometimes none in a year). At least I can feel better about that, mind you that's like saying I feel better than it 3 degrees warmer today than it was yesterday.
IronZ Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 This is something I have wanted to ask for a while but seeing as I have nobody I can ask I am going to leave it to the internet and you lovely people to pass judgement. My approach to an actual date was this, I would just like to know if there is anything fundamentally wrong with it. Arrange a date venue at a place convenient for them at a time convenient for them, especially if its an evening meet up I prefer that the lady doesn't have to drive too far to meet me. Usually I would pick a nice place, not cheap, not expensive but somewhere I know makes good coffee/food. Initially I would meet them by a shake of the hand usually, always open the door for them, pull the chair out of them. Immediately I would ask a question, just something to get things going, usually something fairly light hearted, keep good eye contact with them. The I would generally talk to them about most things, take an interest in them, try and perhaps hear their opinion on topics relating to their interests and as such let the conversation flow like this. Eye contact is critical for me, I would keep that and answer any questions they asked me in an honest way. The objective of course would be to garner some interest whilst being sincere and honest. Lets assume this is the perfect scenario (only happened once) and we basically can spend hours chatting about a multitude of things. I would compliment her at appropriate moments. I would always pay the bill, I never let dates pay, would usher her to the door, open the door and then usually walk her to her car. Usually goodbye would be a hug, mostly though they wouldn't really hug me with any conviction, I did have on where she really pulled me hard and that felt quite nice. My question is, in the opinion of those here based on the info above, am I doing anything fundamentally wrong based on the fact I don't really know how to flirt. Here's my take on your approach: 1. First I agree with you that finding somewhere convenient for them is good on you. However, I think you should consider yourself as well. Me? I usually try to pick a place that's convenient for both of us, not just her, but I do skew towards it being more convenient for her a little bit. You don't want to make the mistake of being too lenient. She will think you're a pushover. 2. I would offer to pick her up for the date. I've had experiences where they agree to be picked up, and I've had dates that want to just meet at the place. That is their logic. Sometimes it's easier for them to meet there, sometimes they feel safer. I don't blame them. I give them that option just in case anyway. 3. Hand shake meeting is a big no-no. I always go in for the hug. It's a nice friendly gesture that can tell you a lot about their comfort level with you. If at all possible I try to lean in for a cheek kiss (I guess it's the European in me) but that doesn't happen too often. You want to be friendly and at the same time make your intentions known that you want a romantic relationship with this person. If you treat it like a business proposition with a handshake, that sends the wrong message. 4. Holding doors and chairs and whatnot for them is fine. I do this too as it is what a gentleman would do. 5. The talking, eye contact, asking questions, etc is fine. You should be gouging their interest and you should see how you two get along. Being able to talk for hours is definitely a good sign. I usually pay for my dates too. 6. At the end of the date I walk mine to their car or door as well. My approach is to always go for the kiss, but I know it doesn't usually turn out that way, especially if it's a more casual date. It has to really feel right and it can be daunting. I think your problem stems from your initial contact with this person. You're being too cautious with them (hand shake, going out of your way to make it convenient for them, etc.). Maybe your conversation isn't going where it should. There's something about what you're doing that sends the wrong message to them about what you're looking for. Next time try to just be a little more forward with them, and go in for the kiss at the end.
IronZ Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Also I should add that when you walk a girl back to her car or door or even if you're just walking somewhere after your date, try to hold her hand. It can be awkward reaching for it but it sends a clear message and it's easier to pull off than blindly going in for the kiss. Usually if you can hold her hand, that's an indicator that it's safe to go in for the kiss later.
Author ZA Dater Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 Here's my take on your approach: 1. First I agree with you that finding somewhere convenient for them is good on you. However, I think you should consider yourself as well. Me? I usually try to pick a place that's convenient for both of us, not just her, but I do skew towards it being more convenient for her a little bit. You don't want to make the mistake of being too lenient. She will think you're a pushover. 2. I would offer to pick her up for the date. I've had experiences where they agree to be picked up, and I've had dates that want to just meet at the place. That is their logic. Sometimes it's easier for them to meet there, sometimes they feel safer. I don't blame them. I give them that option just in case anyway. 3. Hand shake meeting is a big no-no. I always go in for the hug. It's a nice friendly gesture that can tell you a lot about their comfort level with you. If at all possible I try to lean in for a cheek kiss (I guess it's the European in me) but that doesn't happen too often. You want to be friendly and at the same time make your intentions known that you want a romantic relationship with this person. If you treat it like a business proposition with a handshake, that sends the wrong message. 4. Holding doors and chairs and whatnot for them is fine. I do this too as it is what a gentleman would do. 5. The talking, eye contact, asking questions, etc is fine. You should be gouging their interest and you should see how you two get along. Being able to talk for hours is definitely a good sign. I usually pay for my dates too. 6. At the end of the date I walk mine to their car or door as well. My approach is to always go for the kiss, but I know it doesn't usually turn out that way, especially if it's a more casual date. It has to really feel right and it can be daunting. I think your problem stems from your initial contact with this person. You're being too cautious with them (hand shake, going out of your way to make it convenient for them, etc.). Maybe your conversation isn't going where it should. There's something about what you're doing that sends the wrong message to them about what you're looking for. Next time try to just be a little more forward with them, and go in for the kiss at the end. Interesting viewpoints and critique, thanks! The picking up thing isn't really viable with OLD, here in SA people are just too cautious to be picked up by a stranger. An unfortunate side effect of society. As far as venue, I don't mind being the one doing the driving, its not an issue for me. Kissing I don't do, never kissed anyone before and my fear factor increases, especially as has been the case with 99.9% of dates I haven't really felt the want to do anything physical with them, perhaps beyond a courteous hug at the end of the date. Holding hands, I tried that once and got told "I don't know you, you aren't holding my hand'. Maybe I shouldn't admit this but barring two/three people there is nobody I have ever liked enough to actually want to see again or want to kiss. My method does place a premium on intellect. I suppose I also like being challenged. Perhaps I am simply not normal!
wizer Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 2. I would offer to pick her up for the date. I've had experiences where they agree to be picked up, and I've had dates that want to just meet at the place. No woman in their right mind would allow a complete stranger to come to their house. 3
IronZ Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Is there a reason you fear going in for the kiss? If you expect to be in a romantic relationship with someone you need to eventually kiss, right? For a lot of people the first kiss is a big deal because it shows how you feel about each other. As for handholding, you had ONE bad experience. You know how many I've had? Too many to count. The last girl I tried with, she got fidgety and weird about it. When I went in for the kiss at the end of the date she said "nooo, I don't even know you yet" and offered me a cheek kiss. This is when I knew I was wasting my time with her. But you know what? I've had a lot of really good experiences with handholding as well. I think you need to try again. It's a cutesy simple thing that doesn't take much effort and isn't as forward as kissing. And it will tell you right away where you stand. If they're ok with it, it makes the kiss at the end that much easier to pull off. If you get a response like you did before, then you'll know it isn't working out.
IronZ Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 No woman in their right mind would allow a complete stranger to come to their house. I've had plenty of dates that let me do this. It all depends on how you come across, whether you seem trustworthy or not, etc. I am a gentleman about it and I offer just in case they can't get to the location very easily on their own. For the most part though they say it's ok and they can drive and I'm cool with that.
wizer Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Kissing I don't do, never kissed anyone before and my fear factor increases Perhaps I am simply not normal! You're 30 years old and you've never kissed a girl, that qualifies as abnormal.
Author ZA Dater Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 You're 30 years old and you've never kissed a girl, that qualifies as abnormal. Thanks for confirming that.
Author ZA Dater Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 Is there a reason you fear going in for the kiss? If you expect to be in a romantic relationship with someone you need to eventually kiss, right? For a lot of people the first kiss is a big deal because it shows how you feel about each other. As for handholding, you had ONE bad experience. You know how many I've had? Too many to count. The last girl I tried with, she got fidgety and weird about it. When I went in for the kiss at the end of the date she said "nooo, I don't even know you yet" and offered me a cheek kiss. This is when I knew I was wasting my time with her. But you know what? I've had a lot of really good experiences with handholding as well. I think you need to try again. It's a cutesy simple thing that doesn't take much effort and isn't as forward as kissing. And it will tell you right away where you stand. If they're ok with it, it makes the kiss at the end that much easier to pull off. If you get a response like you did before, then you'll know it isn't working out. The reason I don't go for the kiss is 9/10 of them I wasn't interested in so there was never a reason to, the two I did want to kiss I was so unsure I thought it wasn't worth the risk. Turns out one of the two wanted to do substantially more than kiss but chose to ignore the hint because I just wasn't comfortable with the idea.
fitnessfan365 Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 To be honest, it comes off like you're trying too hard and sounds really forced. Remember that dating involves two people - her and you. A woman should enjoy your company and it's great to make her feel appreciated/desired. But nowhere in your post do you talk about your own standards and what you're looking for out of her. Try not to put every woman you meet on such a high pedestal. Wait to pull out the stops for a woman you've been seeing for a bit and who's shown value. My advice? Don't plan dinners for an online first meet/date. It's way too formal and sets expectations. Do something low key where you don't spend more than $10. She's a complete stranger, so treat her that way. 1
Author ZA Dater Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 To be honest, it comes off like you're trying too hard and sounds really forced. Remember that dating involves two people - her and you. A woman should enjoy your company and it's great to make her feel appreciated/desired. But nowhere in your post do you talk about your own standards and what you're looking for out of her. Try not to put every woman you meet on such a high pedestal. Wait to pull out the stops for a woman you've been seeing for a bit and who's shown value. My advice? Don't plan dinners for an online first meet/date. It's way too formal and sets expectations. Do something low key where you don't spend more than $10. She's a complete stranger, so treat her that way. Its usually a coffee date. Unfortunately I realised a long time ago its always going to be about her rather than me because of the 30 people I have met only 1 was interested in me or asked me anything about myself. Hence me checking if what I did in the past was so horrendously bad or I can feel I did the best I could. All I want out of them is for them to like me, take an interest in me and offer me intellectual stimulation. For the right person, I would walk the extra mile and smile while doing it. Simplistically all I would like is to be given a chance, just ONCE with someone I like. This is probably wrong but I really try to make the date as nice as I can, make sure I look smart, smell nice and ONLY ONCE have a I ever been complemented about anything.
IronZ Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 The reason I don't go for the kiss is 9/10 of them I wasn't interested in so there was never a reason to, the two I did want to kiss I was so unsure I thought it wasn't worth the risk. Turns out one of the two wanted to do substantially more than kiss but chose to ignore the hint because I just wasn't comfortable with the idea. So it comes down to mainly your standards and if they're worthy of a kiss, right? Well I can't help you there my friend. I'm sure you will meet some quality women if you look hard enough, but maybe you need to lower your standards a little bit. You can't really know someone just from a coffee date and a first meeting. Maybe you need to ease up a bit. As for your second problem, you have no experience. That's why you're failing to seize the moment. Take some of my advice. Don't be so casual and business-like about a date. Go in for a hug at the beginning, not a handshake. Try to hold her hand if you get the chance. Make a move. And above all, don't be afraid to. Confidence will help you.
wizer Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Go in for a hug at the beginning, not a handshake. I'd never just go up to her and hug her if that's the first time we've ever laid eyes on each other. 1
Author ZA Dater Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 I have always seen date 1 as being more of a getting to know phase where one gets an idea if the person is what you are looking for or not. Hugging kissing I think should be date 2. In my mind date 1 is about trying to impress her and I hate to say this: sell your attributes. I can usually tell within 30 min if there is any sort of intellectual connection or I need to dumb myself down, if the latter happens its pretty much finished as far as I am concerned, the smarter and more confident she is the more I can put my best attributes forward but if its someone very limited knowledge and very limited talking points then there is no "wow" at all from my point of view, she could have 32d 's and it wouldn't matter to me. At least the structure of what I have done in the past isn't too bad, that's one good thing. Maybe some of you are right I am too business like but I don't know how to be anything else, as stupid as that seems, well I become un business like if I am truly and astonishingly wowed as happened last time, I took one look at her and well that was just "wow" she had put effort into getting dressed up (admittedly it was a formal dinner) but still it felt really good and personality just gelled nicely. (I had met her once before). I think the probable issue is I am just extremely picky and few really wow me, there is no real solution for that but to give up(which I have for now), try better myself as everyone here keeps saying(not sure how) or keep hitting my head against the same wall being rejected by the extremely few I like. Again I am glad at least the common consensus seems to be my basic idea of how a date should go isn't too terrible!
Recommended Posts