writergal Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I don't see this as a deal breaker so much as an opportunity to assert herself and needs. I think he's being a dink and not being called out for it. I agree that he's being a dink, but it could be just because he's a horrible communicator and not as insidious as he wants to hit it and quit it with ES. Anything is possible. Regardless, ES this is your opportunity to set an interpersonal boundaries with your boyfriend. An interpersonal boundary is the limit that you set on the behavior of others, and on your own behavior with others. Boundaries set limits and control the circumstances of how others behave around you. Don't confuse setting limits with manipulation, as people often will. The two are totally different because setting limits is a proactive approach to make sure both people get their needs met in a relationship. Whereas manipulation's goal is to only get one person (the manipulator's) needs met. Boundaries with others allow you to take care of yourself and to protect yourself from being manipulated or abused by other people. Boundary: I would like you to spend the night at my place during the week when you come over. See if he will respect that boundary. Tell him how it makes you feel when he doesn't respect that boundary, "it hurts my feelings that you won't spend the night at my place during the week, because it makes me feel like you aren't really that interested or committed to me," or something along those lines. Communication. Setting interpersonal boundaries. Relationships -- all relationships -- need these two things in their foundation, or most will find themselves in an uphill battle with the person they're in a relationship with; making assumptions, playing games, acting passive-aggressive or emotionally abusive or worse. Talk to him about how it makes you feel that he doesn't spend the night. He needs to know. It's how you establish a deeper intimate bond with him, by being vulnerable. Hopefully, he'll respond likewise.
elaine567 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Thanks for the advice. I am usually more passive in relationships and it hasn't worked well for me in the past. You are right. The passion is strong, sex is unbelievable, perhaps the best I have ever had. We can't even watch TV or eat first, it just happens from the moment I open the door, and usually more than once (TMI!). I am still not sure if there is more there underneath the passion. I always used to go for "best friends" type of scenario where sex happened after I got to know them. Sex usually ended up being lukewarm at best. Just be careful he is not simply using you as a FWB and he actually feels there is no need to stay over as he gets what he was there for in the first place. Food, sex and entertainment. He perhaps lies to make it seem like he is not a total jerk and to keep you on board. How long have you been dating and does he stay over on week ends? 1
Timshel Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Thanks for the advice. I am usually more passive in relationships and it hasn't worked well for me in the past. You are right. The passion is strong, sex is unbelievable, perhaps the best I have ever had. We can't even watch TV or eat first, it just happens from the moment I open the door, and usually more than once (TMI!). I am still not sure if there is more there underneath the passion. I always used to go for "best friends" type of scenario where sex happened after I got to know them. Sex usually ended up being lukewarm at best. That's a really good thing ES. Build on the passion. Too much, too soon burns out. Mix it up with goodnight phone calls and rock climbing, jk. It sounds like you have a man passionate for you but that is the easy part. I am all about giving the man the lead but not at the expense of my own needs. Whatever becomes of this relationship, you will feel better knowing that you stayed true to your core self, either way. Let the passion drive the getting to know who you/we are together, not 'passion will sustain us and keep you with me.' It's fun ES and not even a little game playing (for anyone thinking that.) Passion is fun. You are in the beginning so hold back a little. When there is mutual trust and respect and same page status is established, there is wiggle room. 1
Timshel Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I agree that he's being a dink, but it could be just because he's a horrible communicator and not as insidious as he wants to hit it and quit it with ES. Anything is possible. Regardless, ES this is your opportunity to set an interpersonal boundaries with your boyfriend. An interpersonal boundary is the limit that you set on the behavior of others, and on your own behavior with others. Boundaries set limits and control the circumstances of how others behave around you. Don't confuse setting limits with manipulation, as people often will. The two are totally different because setting limits is a proactive approach to make sure both people get their needs met in a relationship. Whereas manipulation's goal is to only get one person (the manipulator's) needs met. Boundaries with others allow you to take care of yourself and to protect yourself from being manipulated or abused by other people. Boundary: I would like you to spend the night at my place during the week when you come over. See if he will respect that boundary. Tell him how it makes you feel when he doesn't respect that boundary, "it hurts my feelings that you won't spend the night at my place during the week, because it makes me feel like you aren't really that interested or committed to me," or something along those lines. Communication. Setting interpersonal boundaries. Relationships -- all relationships -- need these two things in their foundation, or most will find themselves in an uphill battle with the person they're in a relationship with; making assumptions, playing games, acting passive-aggressive or emotionally abusive or worse. Talk to him about how it makes you feel that he doesn't spend the night. He needs to know. It's how you establish a deeper intimate bond with him, by being vulnerable. Hopefully, he'll respond likewise. Yes, anything is possible but they are in the beginning stages of building a relationship. It is not game playing instead as you said, boundaries. Couples should be honest about their needs. That is not a game. Honestly, I have three brothers and two marriages (you know) and an abundance of male friends (not that kind of friend.) Guys will take what you give. It is a woman's prerogative. A man that cares for her will not walk away. She can say 'not during the week.' If he is sincere, that will increase, not decrease his desire. 1
katiegrl Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) ES, if it were me, after the first couple of excuses (not lies IMO), I would just assume he's not ready, not comfortable, worried about not getting enough sleep, or whatevs ....... and I would simply stop asking. When he is ready to spend the night during the week, HE will let you know. Till then, if everything else is good, let it go. Edited July 10, 2015 by katiegrl 5
Ruby Slippers Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Personally, I would never have sex with a guy who didn't spend the night afterward. It's never happened, and if it did, it would be the last time with that guy. From an evolutionary reproductive stable strategy point of view - and I'm talking primal biology here - after a man mates with a woman he cares about, he wants to sleep next to her and protect her and the potential offspring inside her that they just created against any threat of attack. Imagine predators in the jungle, where the lion and lioness are cuddled up in a quiet cave and he's protecting her and their creation. This is also when deep bonding occurs on the man's part, when he stays, protects and comforts her after sex. Of course, we use birth control these days. But still, the underlying biology and emotional processes haven't changed. It's perfectly natural for a woman who has just mated with a man to feel abandoned and not cared for if he ****s and runs. It's a loud and clear message on the primal level that he doesn't really care about you, just cares about getting off with your body. This is why I would never feel OK would it, and would never accept it. I guess it's annoying that last time he did this I already said "You don't want to stay over". And he was all like "No, no, I really want to, I just can't because of <excuse>" If a man wants to do something, he does it. He isn't staying because he doesn't care enough to stay. I also find "white lies" or any kind of lies absolutely unacceptable. In this case, he's lying to appease you and keep the sex coming, and it seems that so far, it's working. I agree but is it enough to break up over? Every relationship I know has behaviours worse than this that are tolerated. Can you really expect to be satisfied with everything? I struggle with this. I'm in a new relationship where I am satisfied with everything, and there are no behaviors even close to this. This is the first time in my life that I've been satisfied with everything. It's not easy to find, but SO much better than trying to make something fit when it doesn't quite fit. I am just hoping that he is still not fully comfortable to speak his mind around me and that this will change in longer term. I have been too quick to leave relationships in the past so I want to try and work through things this time. We will see. I think he's very comfortable. He's getting sex and companionship without having to provide you with much of the emotional component that you need, that your instincts are telling you is missing. I'm sorry to say it, but I just don't think he's all that invested in you. If he were, he would never **** and run. You could adjust your behavior to get more of what you want - such as not having sex unless it's abundantly clear he's going to say. But that won't change the underlying reality of him not caring enough to stay without being steered into it. 4
Keenly Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Regarding the post above mine, no, a man leaving after sex does not mean he doesn't care about you. I speak from experience. Just because I love the girl doesn't mean I don't have to work in the morning. 8
elaine567 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Personally, I would never have sex with a guy who didn't spend the night afterward. It's never happened, and if it did, it would be the last time with that guy. ...This is the first time in my life that I've been satisfied with everything. It's not easy to find, but SO much better than trying to make something fit when it doesn't quite fit. I think he's very comfortable. He's getting sex and companionship without having to provide you with much of the emotional component that you need, that your instincts are telling you is missing. I'm sorry to say it, but I just don't think he's all that invested in you. Agreed. I have never had sex with anyone who didn't spend the night with me either. I would feel pretty icky about myself if I did. I guess, OP is desperately trying to fit a round peg into a square hole here. 1
jen1447 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 From an evolutionary reproductive stable strategy point of view - and I'm talking primal biology here - after a man mates with a woman he cares about, he wants to sleep next to her and protect her and the potential offspring inside her that they just created against any threat of attack. Imagine predators in the jungle, where the lion and lioness are cuddled up in a quiet cave and he's protecting her and their creation. This is also when deep bonding occurs on the man's part, when he stays, protects and comforts her after sex. Shouldn't he stay awake for that? 8
katiegrl Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Shouldn't he stay awake for that? This is why we love jen so much..... the voice of reason. :bunny: 3
Lansing Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I am not one to rush "sleeping" with a girl. Last girl I dated still lived with her parents and even though they were away for the night or weekend it still freaked me out that they might walk in at any point. Plus, I had to work in the morning and it would mean an additional 30 minute drive in the morning, going home to get ready, etc and I already needed to wake up early. 2
Keenly Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Who's needs trump the other? The woman's emotional need to sleep with the man after sex, or the man's physical need to get restful sleep? 4
katiegrl Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) I am not one to rush "sleeping" with a girl. Last girl I dated still lived with her parents and even though they were away for the night or weekend it still freaked me out that they might walk in at any point. Plus, I had to work in the morning and it would mean an additional 30 minute drive in the morning, going home to get ready, etc and I already needed to wake up early. I agree... there is no deep dark reason why a guy (or gal) prefers to sleep at home during the week. I myself preferred to sleep at home during the week when I started dating my boyfriend. .... and I was crazy about him!!! The short of it was I just could not fall asleep at his place, and would be totally useless the next day. He understood and didn't take it personally. In time, after spending entire weekends with him, I started feeling more comfortable, but it took awhile. Edited July 10, 2015 by katiegrl 2
Keenly Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Hey ES, what if it's just sleep pickyness ? You know, like he just likes his own bed. Does you crash at his place?
Gary S Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I do like the fact that he stays over night on the weekends with you. However, I don't like the little white lies - it's a red flag. It could, now I say could, suggest that he does not have enough integrity - and you need trust in a relationship, it's a requirement - you can only love your partner as far as you can trust him. How much integrity, or lack thereof, does this guy really have? How long have you been dating him? How honest is he with others? At work? How does he treat the waitress? How does he treat others in general? How is his credit? When he borrows stuff/money, does he pay it back/bring it back? Would you trust you child with this person? Would you go into business with this person? These are the questions you should ask yourself. 2
Vercetti Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 The only type of lie think is ok is omission of details that could compromise the integrity of the relationship, ie if just won the lottery I wouldn't disclose that early on as it could colour the progression of the relationship. As for the lies the op guy is telling, just seems weak in my eyes. Stupid lies for stupid reasons all the bloody time.
Redhead14 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 What are your thoughts on "white lies" during the first few months of a relationship? An example: guy comes over during a work night. You have dinner, sex, watch movies. You ask him to stay over. He says "he can't because he needs to give his mate a ride because he lost his licence" OK. Next week it's because "he parked his car at blah blah and he is worried it will get stolen". The week after some other excuse. It's obvious due to this pattern that he just doesn't want to sleep over (for whatever reason) during the work night. Maybe he doesn't get enough sleep and is tired at work. Maybe he doesn't want to spend the night with me. Whatever. Assume that it's the context of an exclusive relationship, he sleeps over on the weekends, contacts you every day, takes you out, buys you stuff etc. Still, a lie is a lie. And he seems to come up with them easily and without even getting flustered. Not sleeping over during work week is not a problem to me. Lying is. What do you think? This is not about the lying/excuses, this is about the hit and run. This is what a lot of guys do who don't want a relationship to develop. Are you two on the same page in terms of dating goals? Are you dating for a relationship? Is he? If he's just dating casually, he doesn't want you or him to get too emotionally invested. Make sure you're on the same page. Assume that it's the context of an exclusive relationship -- I don't understand why you say "assume" -- either you are or you aren't. Did you two have that conversation? Are you unilaterally declaring exclusivity and assuming he is being exclusive?
Gary S Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 This is not about the lying/excuses, this is about the hit and run. This is what a lot of guys do who don't want a relationship to develop. Are you two on the same page in terms of dating goals? Are you dating for a relationship? Is he? If he's just dating casually, he doesn't want you or him to get too emotionally invested. Make sure you're on the same page. - Hmm, I'm not so sure about that? - sometimes people have trouble sleeping and would prefer to sleep alone, at least some of the time - and some of those people are deeply in love with their partner and have great relationships. And he is staying with her on the weekends. I'm just sayin'. 2
LoveRefreshed Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Not addressing your particular issue, but more to the question of white lies. I am a man, and I think white lies are okay. Some folks don't see it that way and my gf certainly doesn't. The caveat is that white lies need to be white, not gray, or full on lies/omissions of truth that would hurt her over something serious. It's not a white lie to leave out a girl who was flirting with you that she doesn't like. It is a white lie if he doesn't want to stay over because he would rather go home and play a round of video games before bed, or because he loves to take a massive 30 minute **** in the bathroom before work and doesn't want to be in your way or let you know that yet. (My dad does, I don't know what takes 30 minutes in the bathroom) I do support just being honest, but it could be something he's embarrassed about. Just tell him that he doesn't need to make up an excuse if he doesn't want to stay, that he can simply say that. 1
katiegrl Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 ***- Hmm, I'm not so sure about that? - sometimes people have trouble sleeping and would prefer to sleep alone, at least some of the time - and some of those people are deeply in love with their partner and have great relationships. And he is staying with her on the weekends. I'm just sayin'. Bingo! Which is exactly how it was for me. I was (am) crazy about my boyfriend but when we first started dating .... I could NOT fall asleep at his place!!! I tried once and was awake all night...totally useless the next day! Ugh. Took awhile including spending weekends there (tired at first cause I could not sleep) ...... before I started spending weeknights there as well. I think in some cases, it could mean what RH suggested, but judging from how ES described their relationship and how good it is, it's doubtful that is the case here. 3
katiegrl Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Not addressing your particular issue, but more to the question of white lies. I am a man, and I think white lies are okay. Some folks don't see it that way and my gf certainly doesn't. The caveat is that white lies need to be white, not gray, or full on lies/omissions of truth that would hurt her over something serious. It's not a white lie to leave out a girl who was flirting with you that she doesn't like. It is a white lie if he doesn't want to stay over because he would rather go home and play a round of video games before bed, or because he loves to take a massive 30 minute **** in the bathroom before work and doesn't want to be in your way or let you know that yet. (My dad does, I don't know what takes 30 minutes in the bathroom) I do support just being honest, but it could be something he's embarrassed about. ***Just tell him that he doesn't need to make up an excuse if he doesn't want to stay, that he can simply say that***. I agree and that is exactly what I did do in the early stages of my relationship.... before my boyfriend trusted that I would not go ballistic on him. Eventually, those little white lies got less and less .....as he learned he could be honest with me about stuff .... and feel safe that I would not throw fits ....or feel unnecessarily hurt by what he does. So ES talk to him. Let him know that if he is uncomfortable or not ready to sleep over during the week ..... it is OKAY! Unless it's not okay, and in that case, then be honest with him about that too. Without accusing him of not caring or whatevs....hear him out. My two cents.. 2
RedRobin Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Well, ES, let me just say that I have had a SUPER passionate relationship before... to the point where any little waking moment during the night = sex... 3 or 4 times a night... then both of us were tired the next day. Both of our respective employers noticed practically immediately. It was so bad, I got to the point where I didn't want to see him during the week because we couldn't help ourselves once he walked in the door or vice versa. Before then, I was one of those... "if you are coming over, then you are sleeping over" That is my standard MO, but it didn't work with that particular guy. As far as your guy goes... He may or may not be lying, he may be just trying to side swipe the issue... who knows. It is important that you state your needs in a respectful, non-confrontational, non-accusatory fashion if you want a successful resolution. You might ask some questions about how he's handled this part of past relationships to see if there is a pattern. He's invested in you on weekends. This doesn't sound like a FWB situation or a guy who isn't into you. As I've gotten older, I've gotten VERY protective of my sleep. My work performance suffers a great deal when I don't get good sleep... and I don't care how understanding the guy is... even an honest answer sounds like an excuse in the early days when you are just starting to develop trust. Every relationship is a negotiation. 1
Ruby Slippers Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Shouldn't he stay awake for that? When a man has an orgasm, a cocktail of brain chemicals induce a state of immediate relaxation and sleepiness. And when he has an orgasm with a partner as opposed to through masturbation, this effect is about 4 times stronger. Some evolutionary scientists have theorized that this happens to encourage him to stay close to his partner and pair-bond with her, all positives in the successful offspring-rearing process. Then if anything goes bump in the night, he's there to wake up and offer protection. 2
writergal Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 When a man has an orgasm, a cocktail of brain chemicals induce a state of immediate relaxation and sleepiness. And when he has an orgasm with a partner as opposed to through masturbation, this effect is about 4 times stronger. Some evolutionary scientists have theorized that this happens to encourage him to stay close to his partner and pair-bond with her, all positives in the successful offspring-rearing process. Then if anything goes bump in the night, he's there to wake up and offer protection. +1! Great post Ruby! Now that's the voice of reason right there. ^ 1
katiegrl Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 When a man has an orgasm, a cocktail of brain chemicals induce a state of immediate relaxation and sleepiness. And when he has an orgasm with a partner as opposed to through masturbation, this effect is about 4 times stronger. Some evolutionary scientists have theorized that this happens to encourage him to stay close to his partner and pair-bond with her, all positives in the successful offspring-rearing process. Then if anything goes bump in the night, ** he's there to wake up and offer protection***. Him waking up assumes he was able to fall asleep in the first place. As many have attested to, often times folks have a difficult time sleeping (or sleeping well) with their SO in the early stages, especially if they have been used to sleeping alone for a long time. That could be all it is.....especially since everything is good and they sleep together on weekends (when he does not have to get up early for work).
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