writergal Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Then why did I always win? Sorry. I don't mean to be insensitive. Ha-ha no offense taken. But what did you win? And why is romance a competition? Who's the opponent? That's the point I was trying to make with my statement that it's just better/easier to be yourself. Less to keep track of (b/c when you play games, tell lies, you have to keep track of the illusion you project to the other person you're trying to attract). I watched my friends in college play games with guys they wanted to date or have a FWB with and I felt embarrassed for them, because it was so obvious they weren't being themselves, and were being fake. Fake hair, fake tan, fake personas, fake promises, fake beliefs, fake values, fake confidence, fake self esteem, fake interests, it was just too much. I mean c'mon, just be yourself. I guess 'to thine own self be true' can be widely interpreted. 2
Got it Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Then why did I always win? Sorry. I don't mean to be insensitive. Okay. I haven't played games and have "won" especially in dating. I am just unabashedly me.
Keenly Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Okay. I haven't played games and have "won" especially in dating. I am just unabashedly me. What? No... According to her that's impossible. You must be mistaken.
Brigit_1 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Ha-ha no offense taken. But what did you win? And why is romance a competition? Who's the opponent? That's the point I was trying to make with my statement that it's just better/easier to be yourself. Less to keep track of (b/c when you play games, tell lies, you have to keep track of the illusion you project to the other person you're trying to attract). I watched my friends in college play games with guys they wanted to date or have a FWB with and I felt embarrassed for them, because it was so obvious they weren't being themselves, and were being fake. Fake hair, fake tan, fake personas, fake promises, fake beliefs, fake values, fake confidence, fake self esteem, fake interests, it was just too much. I mean c'mon, just be yourself. I guess 'to thine own self be true' can be widely interpreted. The first rule IF you want a long term boyfriend/husband is NEVER be a FWB. This term was coined by Alanis Morissette in her song: Head Over Feet. If you read the words to the lyrics she was describing a man who loved her unconditionally. Not a guy who was looking for an easy fu*k. "Head Over Feet" I had no choice but to hear you You stated your case time and again I thought about it You treat me like I'm a princess I'm not used to liking that You ask how my day was You've already won me over in spite of me And don't be alarmed if I fall head over feet Don't be surprised if I love you for all that you are I couldn't help it It's all your fault Your love is thick and it swallowed me whole You're so much braver than I gave you credit for That's not lip service You've already won me over in spite of me And don't be alarmed if I fall head over feet Don't be surprised if I love you for all that you are I couldn't help it It's all your fault You are the bearer of unconditional things You held your breath and the door for me Thanks for your patience You're the best listener that I've ever met You're my best friend Best friend with benefits What took me so long I've never felt this healthy before I've never wanted something rational I am aware now I am aware now You've already won me over in spite of me And don't be alarmed if I fall head over feet Don't be surprised if I love you for all that you are I couldn't help it It's all your fault 1
Got it Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 What? No... According to her that's impossible. You must be mistaken. Apparently. MAYBE I AM the GAME! It is quintessentially me so just my nature existence is the game. Trust me, I could turn you into a puddle. :laugh: Games are exhausting, who has time for that crap. Maybe I just got really good at "nexting" all the people who needed that level of energy and just attracted the ones who were similar to me.
Got it Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 The first rule IF you want a long term boyfriend/husband is NEVER be a FWB. This term was coined by Alanis Morissette in her song: Head Over Feet. If you read the words to the lyrics she was describing a man who loved her unconditionally. Not a guy who was looking for an easy fu*k. "Head Over Feet" I had no choice but to hear you You stated your case time and again I thought about it You treat me like I'm a princess I'm not used to liking that You ask how my day was You've already won me over in spite of me And don't be alarmed if I fall head over feet Don't be surprised if I love you for all that you are I couldn't help it It's all your fault Your love is thick and it swallowed me whole You're so much braver than I gave you credit for That's not lip service You've already won me over in spite of me And don't be alarmed if I fall head over feet Don't be surprised if I love you for all that you are I couldn't help it It's all your fault You are the bearer of unconditional things You held your breath and the door for me Thanks for your patience You're the best listener that I've ever met You're my best friend Best friend with benefits What took me so long I've never felt this healthy before I've never wanted something rational I am aware now I am aware now You've already won me over in spite of me And don't be alarmed if I fall head over feet Don't be surprised if I love you for all that you are I couldn't help it It's all your fault Okay, well now if you are going to quote Alanis I know this is serious business! Preach on girlfriend! 1
Brigit_1 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Apparently. MAYBE I AM the GAME! Maybe you are? If you're doing well no need to change a thang.
elaine567 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I watched my friends in college play games with guys they wanted to date or have a FWB with and I felt embarrassed for them, because it was so obvious they weren't being themselves, and were being fake. Fake hair, fake tan, fake personas, fake promises, fake beliefs, fake values, fake confidence, fake self esteem, fake interests, it was just too much. I mean c'mon, just be yourself. I guess 'to thine own self be true' can be widely interpreted. That is all good, but many find that their real self is not all that attractive to the opposite sex or people in general, hence the need for some to fake everything. The Modern world likes us all to be bigger, better, more beautiful, more intelligent, more confident, richer, etc. else it rejects us. Many NEED to play the game or be left all alone after the crazy melée of dating whilst young subsides. 1
jay1983 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 The issue brigit is that a lot of women have the same way of thinking. Chase who's outta their league and end up with FWB or single for a long time. How many think like that? IDK check the dating sites.
autumnnight Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Okay. I haven't played games and have "won" especially in dating. I am just unabashedly me. I think there is a hidden component here. Some people, based on their upbringing or personality or adaptability or even intelligence have an "unabashedly me" that also inherently follows emotionally intelligent behavior. The person who says they never play games or follow rules and still have lots of relationships probably inherently do the "right" things already. However, there are crass, socially inept, rude, stubborn, awkward people for whom typical social interaction seems to be a mystery. THOSE people could benefit from some rule-following. Or at least some basic mainstream social training. I'll be frank. I read what some people write and HOW they express themselves on forums and I think, "if this is how you are in real life, I understand your problem getting dates/making friends." 3
Got it Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I think there is a hidden component here. Some people, based on their upbringing or personality or adaptability or even intelligence have an "unabashedly me" that also inherently follows emotionally intelligent behavior. The person who says they never play games or follow rules and still have lots of relationships probably inherently do the "right" things already. However, there are crass, socially inept, rude, stubborn, awkward people for whom typical social interaction seems to be a mystery. THOSE people could benefit from some rule-following. Or at least some basic mainstream social training. I'll be frank. I read what some people write and HOW they express themselves on forums and I think, "if this is how you are in real life, I understand your problem getting dates/making friends." Autumn, completely agree and for some of mine just having a bit of fun. There are absolutely necessary social behaviors that some people are able to follow/learn better than others. We see that in young children and adults. If you struggle with it, struggle reading non verbal cues, etc. interaction/relationship with people with be hard. Add in a negative, paranoid or unhealthy thinking styles and relationships will be hard. 2
writergal Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 The first rule IF you want a long term boyfriend/husband is NEVER be a FWB. This term was coined by Alanis Morissette in her song: Head Over Feet. If you read the words to the lyrics she was describing a man who loved her unconditionally. Not a guy who was looking for an easy fu*k. "Head Over Feet" I had no choice but to hear you You stated your case time and again I thought about it You treat me like I'm a princess I'm not used to liking that You ask how my day was You've already won me over in spite of me And don't be alarmed if I fall head over feet Don't be surprised if I love you for all that you are I couldn't help it It's all your fault Your love is thick and it swallowed me whole You're so much braver than I gave you credit for That's not lip service You've already won me over in spite of me And don't be alarmed if I fall head over feet Don't be surprised if I love you for all that you are I couldn't help it It's all your fault You are the bearer of unconditional things You held your breath and the door for me Thanks for your patience You're the best listener that I've ever met You're my best friend Best friend with benefits What took me so long I've never felt this healthy before I've never wanted something rational I am aware now I am aware now You've already won me over in spite of me And don't be alarmed if I fall head over feet Don't be surprised if I love you for all that you are I couldn't help it It's all your fault And that is what you won, in response to my question, by playing games with men? A loving, devoted relationship? Yes, that is a song about a couple who are devoted to each other. Thank you for pointing that out but I'm not sure what your point is. Of course, if you want a relationship with someone, you don't have a FWB with them first b/c those rarely (if ever) turn into a committed long-term relationship. Alanis rocks. Apparently. MAYBE I AM the GAME! It is quintessentially me so just my nature existence is the game. Trust me, I could turn you into a puddle. :laugh: Games are exhausting, who has time for that crap. Maybe I just got really good at "nexting" all the people who needed that level of energy and just attracted the ones who were similar to me. Hey as long as you're being yourself, that's all that matters! Rock on, Got it! That is all good, but many find that their real self is not all that attractive to the opposite sex or people in general, hence the need for some to fake everything. The Modern world likes us all to be bigger, better, more beautiful, more intelligent, more confident, richer, etc. else it rejects us. Many NEED to play the game or be left all alone after the crazy melée of dating whilst young subsides. I agree with you that superficial beauty is promoted in our society and culture; hence all those weird infomercials for botox and lip fillers, bras filled with water to create the illusion of a larger chest, take-home haircolor kits, make-up, fake nails, photoshopped models on magazine covers to promote an unrealistic beauty standard. It's maddening just how much advertisers demean and disrespect women for being who they are supposed to be. If you have bushy eyebrows, fine then just go wax them that's no big deal. Or, get a nice haircut, wax your legs and other areas, but who is all of that done for? Yourself? Others? No games for me thanks! Maybe a good haircut and some makeup but that's it for my beauty regiment. 1
Got it Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 A but who is all of that done for? Yourself? Others? It's done for the Game obviously. Duh. :laugh
writergal Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 It's done for the Game obviously. Duh. :laugh The Love Game? Let's play a love game, do you want love or do you want fame? 2
Author Gloria25 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Posted July 10, 2015 The first rule IF you want a long term boyfriend/husband is NEVER be a FWB. This term was coined by Alanis Morissette in her song: Head Over Feet. If you read the words to the lyrics she was describing a man who loved her unconditionally. Not a guy who was looking for an easy fu*k. Lol... That is one of my fav Alanis Morissette songs - as I'm not the easiest person to love "unconditionally"... But, yes, IMO what you mentioned is a difference between playing games and just being smart...cuz yea, it's not "smart" to start off on one foot (a FWB) and expect like in the movies you're gonna be able to transition into it being something serious - haven't see it work in real life yet. **Sigh** I must admit it takes a lot of restraint to hold off from instant gratification. I remember with my recent dude when we almost hooked up, while I was left with wet panties and had to reschedule - the more I thought about it, I didn't wanna be a one-time hook-up with him. Oh well... I ponder that at times, if I were to seduce him and we entered something casual that it would fizzle cuz I can't give him the whole white picket fence and kids thing and that would probably hurt more than what I'm feeling right now. Restraint...that is,
Brigit_1 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 And that is what you won, in response to my question, by playing games with men? A loving, devoted relationship? Yep. That's what I won. 1
Brigit_1 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Lol... That is one of my fav Alanis Morissette songs - as I'm not the easiest person to love "unconditionally"... But, yes, IMO what you mentioned is a difference between playing games and just being smart...cuz yea, it's not "smart" to start off on one foot (a FWB) and expect like in the movies you're gonna be able to transition into it being something serious - haven't see it work in real life yet. **Sigh** I must admit it takes a lot of restraint to hold off from instant gratification. I remember with my recent dude when we almost hooked up, while I was left with wet panties and had to reschedule - the more I thought about it, I didn't wanna be a one-time hook-up with him. Oh well... I ponder that at times, if I were to seduce him and we entered something casual that it would fizzle cuz I can't give him the whole white picket fence and kids thing and that would probably hurt more than what I'm feeling right now. Restraint...that is, ? Are you looking for a relationship?
Timshel Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 It's not a game. All it is....is being true to oneself. It is not a game. What is a game is going with the flow because you are afraid the other person will leave/not like you if you are your own self. People do this all the time and this is the game. Coming into a relationship with honesty and most importantly, without fear is hands down the most liberating experience. If I am this way, if I think this, say this, like this food, have this proclivity, I did not shave my legs......if I say no. No, I want to not see you, I have other things to do.....I want to go to bed and get a good night's sleep. No, I haven't shaved and I don't want to and I have an early morning. None of that is necessary except, no, not tonight. The games come when we lie, compromise and end up with something we don't want. Why? Because we lied and compromised and thought we should out of fear of losing. Worst thing ever....Fear. My husband dying released me from that. I love more honestly and deeply for that. 3
writergal Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 +1. Great post Timshel (and sorry for the loss of your husband). It's not a game. All it is....is being true to oneself. It is not a game. What is a game is going with the flow because you are afraid the other person will leave/not like you if you are your own self. People do this all the time and this is the game. Coming into a relationship with honesty and most importantly, without fear is hands down the most liberating experience. If I am this way, if I think this, say this, like this food, have this proclivity, I did not shave my legs......if I say no. No, I want to not see you, I have other things to do.....I want to go to bed and get a good night's sleep. No, I haven't shaved and I don't want to and I have an early morning. None of that is necessary except, no, not tonight. The games come when we lie, compromise and end up with something we don't want. Why? Because we lied and compromised and thought we should out of fear of losing. Worst thing ever....Fear. My husband dying released me from that. I love more honestly and deeply for that. 2
Timshel Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) I don't know if I'm just venting here, but here goes... I've read the "Rules", "Rules II", 'Why Men Love Bychs', "He's Just Not that Into you", 'How to think like a man', 'Men are from Mars, Women Venus', etc... But, for the life of me, I just can't put that into practice when it comes to dating. I seriously think I'm a "book smart" nerd/geek and have no "street smarts"... What you see is what you get with me. I can't hold off having sex in hopes you think I'm Virgin Mary and/or a "decent" chick . Why should I hold off calling you the next day after a date to see if you had a good time? If I cook for you on the 2nd date does that mean I'm smothering you? Arrrrgghhh!!! But, fact is that's how the world works...you gotta "play the game" Even at work for years I've been told that - but that's not how I roll. I go in, do my work (to levels above my peers), but cuz I don't brownnose, I don't get perks, promotions, etc. I just get the "oh, I like you, you're quiet, you come in and do your job" Well, same thing when it comes to dating. I perform my "duties" above that of other women, and get passed over...So, gotta move to another company/agency to get the higher position I am entitled to. Dating just sucks...why can't you just go out, meet people, have a great time w/o having to walk on eggshells and/or be playing from some playbook? I'm not changing...what you see is what you get with me. I'm not playing no freakin' game to land a guy. Oh well, time to get more doggies for my collection and to become the "Krazy Dog Lady" of my hood cuz the way I'm going about it, no man will give me the time of day cuz I have no game:mad: Don't change Gloria. You are a mint if ever there is one. I have said this now repeatedly in your threads, you are delightful. Yes, you have some rigid places but there is someone for you and I think that your rough edges will smooth out. In the meantime, no stalker. If you are the you that I see, minus the fear of not being loved for who you are; you will have no problems attracting a mate. Drop the imaginary boyfriend and the need to control love....you can't. Here's something military woman. Roll.....roll, your best instincts come from rolling. Writergal....I took my time and found a good place. A learning place. Obviously, I've moved forward. G is awesome and a really good and honest relationship to be in. I am a content woman. Edited July 10, 2015 by Timshel 1
Author Gloria25 Posted July 10, 2015 Author Posted July 10, 2015 ? Are you looking for a relationship? Yes, I am looking for a RL...but what I want I believe won't keep a guy around for too long. I don't want kids (and am coming up on 40 anyways). I have my own "stuff" (house, money, etc). So, what can a man feel he can offer me and what is the "glue" that will make him stay around? Also, I tend to be quiet and stoic at times. I am not sure some men are comfortable with that. So, I'd be a fit for a guy who has kids that are up and out and just wants a "long-term monogamous partner" - which makes it hard for me cuz guys my age either want kids (or more kids) and/or already have kids...And, older than me literally look "older" (they got the pot bellies, just want to relax). And, don't wanna do the FWB/casual thing cuz then you get treated like an unpaid-ho. **sigh***
Brigit_1 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Yes, I am looking for a RL...but what I want I believe won't keep a guy around for too long. I don't want kids (and am coming up on 40 anyways). I have my own "stuff" (house, money, etc). So, what can a man feel he can offer me and what is the "glue" that will make him stay around? Also, I tend to be quiet and stoic at times. I am not sure some men are comfortable with that. So, I'd be a fit for a guy who has kids that are up and out and just wants a "long-term monogamous partner" - which makes it hard for me cuz guys my age either want kids (or more kids) and/or already have kids...And, older than me literally look "older" (they got the pot bellies, just want to relax). And, don't wanna do the FWB/casual thing cuz then you get treated like an unpaid-ho. **sigh*** So you don't have any kids but you do have a house, money etc... Plus: you're funny, sweet and intelligent. Why do you feel that you cannot sustain a relationship?
Keenly Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Yes, I am looking for a RL...but what I want I believe won't keep a guy around for too long. I don't want kids (and am coming up on 40 anyways). I have my own "stuff" (house, money, etc). So, what can a man feel he can offer me and what is the "glue" that will make him stay around? Also, I tend to be quiet and stoic at times. I am not sure some men are comfortable with that. So, I'd be a fit for a guy who has kids that are up and out and just wants a "long-term monogamous partner" - which makes it hard for me cuz guys my age either want kids (or more kids) and/or already have kids...And, older than me literally look "older" (they got the pot bellies, just want to relax). And, don't wanna do the FWB/casual thing cuz then you get treated like an unpaid-ho. **sigh*** You're the kind of woman I'd look for if I was still single in 14 years. Guys exist out there that like this. There are so many men and women out there that it's impossible to find some one that is undateable. There is a person out there for everyone.
readynow Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Gloria, what about looking at those books (Rules, WMLB, TLAM etc) not as 'games' to hook men with but a general guide as to how to conduct one's self while seeking that man? What do they way generally say? Don't sleep with a man that isn't emotionally invested in you, don't throw your hours away spending each waking moment with him, rather, give him space to breathe and time to develop feelings for you, don't treat a stranger like he's your husband by cooking him meals and doing his laundry after just a few dates, etc I would take those books as a way of disciplining myself while in the dating world. Not everything that feels 'natural' is beneficial. I know someone who is such a wonderful woman but always 'goes with the flow' when it comes to dating. This means she has a new boyfriend every other week because for some reason, she's always getting dumped - not before she's been 'used'. The problem is she wants husband, kids, etc and is in her 40s. Look at how many girls come here crying about how a perfect guy vanished after sex on the first date. Would them keeping their legs closed have been 'playing a game'? Give a man a chance to fall for you, that's what many of those books preach. It's happened to me once, slept with a man very early on and as predicted, he vanished. He did show up a few months later and is still chasing now despite the fact that I'm happily paired up. I don't know about guys' PUA books but I've seen a colleague turn from a shy nerd to a babe magnet after reading some book. Not saying it's right but something seems to work. Those books are not for everyone. There are some who never held back and have been married 50yrs and there are people who have followed rules to the point of loneliness. I say if you have those books, see if there's any truth in any of them and chuck the rubbish. 1
Phoe Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Phoe here is a simple rule. Men like the following: 1. What they perceive is out of their league. 2. What other men want. 3. What gets them hard. Become THAT girl and you'll be fine. =/ While I'm sure there's a certain amount of validity to this, it seems to be very narrowly focused... As if any individual qualities a woman may have are meant to be made obsolete, and all that matters is that she becomes "XYZ" If I cannot make those 3 rules happen, I have failed? Seems far too absolute. And there are never absolutes! 1
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