What makes you think he won't do the same to you???

[WasOtherWoman]

waterwoman sums it up perfectly in post #59

 

 

 

WoW,

I don't think anyone sets out to be superwoman but in my case it just crept up on me. Plus I had FOO issues that made me a "pleaser".

On top of that I made the mistake of not getting to know my first husband properly before I married him, so I didn't realise he was a lazy @r$e.

 

I finally put my foot down and said that things had to change and he needed to pull his load, that I wasn't prepared to work F/T both outside and inside the house. His response was to cheat.

 

He married his AP and guess what she's another "superwoman" She posts on FB about how he's always moaning and how she's keeping house for 5 etc etc. So far she's been hospitalised twice for depression and has had one suicide attempt.

At least I got out before I lost the plot completely.......

 

 

I totally get the "people pleaser" thing. My dad raised me as such, and it's really been challenging to keep that reigned in. I could have wonder woman tendencies also. I really think, as Raena said, children ARE the tipping point. It is really hard for that type of dynamic to develop when you are both working and there are no children to "mother".

 

Yikes, though, sounds like his like is pretty drama-filled. Lucky you got out when you did!

[WasOtherWoman]

Marriages can't prosper with less but thinking that you could just walk away if this was the issue is the problem. No, of course no one would feel ok with it, but they deal because you don't make mountains out of molehills... and in the moment, that's what it seems like.... not such a big deal. It isn't until is blows over that people realize... yep, I can't deal with that anymore, that's too much.

 

At what point do you walk away? When they don't meet your needs the first time, the 10th, the 50th? Some people don't know how to walk away when they should or don't see the signs or say "I'm not ready to give up yet"

and stay in a miserable marriage. Or instead they cheat and boo hoo about how miserable their marriage is. Or they keep putting up with the crap because you aren't suppose to just walk away and end up miserable wondering why they were cheated on.

 

No woman is wonder woman, but society sure does make us feel like we should be.

 

I may have given you the impression that it is always in my mind that I can walk away. It is not, and it would take a lot to make me walk away from this marriage, as my husband is all kinds of awesome. But I do feel in my heart that if my husband did not see me as an equal I could not stay in my marriage. I guess we all have our non-negotiables.

 

But the those are some awesome questions, that you posed above, seriously. At what point do you walk away? I honestly don' t know. I am just grateful that I have never been in that particular situation. But I do understand what you are saying, and I really don't know what I would do, or how I would correct the situation in which my needs were not getting met.

[cocorico]

I have to ask the OW on here. What makes you think the MM isn't going to do to you what he did to his wife. You will always be playing detective while you are with him. Checking his phone, computer, his where about at all time. If he can say and do what he did to his W who gave him beautiful children, a loving home, EVERYTHING of herself!!!.... What will he do to you???

 

nope, not even close. Never felt the need to check. If I can't trust him, what is the point of being with him?

 

Why would he treat me differently to his xBW - well, for a start, I treat him differently to how she treated him (and his family). Our R is very different to theirs. He has done the work in IC to understand why he put up with such poor treatment for so long, and why he could not just kick her out when she reneged on her undertakings, and why he felt an A was his only way out of that toxic M. We are honest and upfront with each other, and we love and respect each other, and prioritise our R.

 

Even so, yes, he could conceivably hit his head and change his personality overnight, and decide to be unfaithful. **** happens. I don't expect it, but if it happens, I'll deal with it. I'll still be grateful for the time we've had together, and I won't regret a minute of that, even if things do fall apart later.

[Summer Breeze]

My H and I went through all kinds of counselling and we made sure we involved everyone in our new lives. It's even to the point now that his x is a pretty good friend of mine and sometimes we socialize with she and her new H. We didn't hide how we started and we didn't skulk away. I think a lot of that came from me not being a typically 'hidden' OW.

 

I didn't want the same R that my H had with his x. I wanted something we built and with more than a century of lifes experience behind us we knew what we wanted and thankfully worked hard to get there.

 

I think one of my keys was to be prepared to allow it to fail. There's a lot of pressure to 'make it' when your R starts from an A. Of course, everyone has different ideas of what 'making it' is. We needed to be able to relax and enjoy the R as something new and meaningful. It was never going to work if we shrouded it in secrecy and acted ashamed of it.

 

We put in the work and the time. We had constant attitude adjustments. We didn't just think once we were together it was going to magically work. I would assume what we did was pretty similar to what reconciling M couples do.

 

If you're not willing to put in the work there are a million things that can lead to falling apart and only one of them is cheating.

[Sassy Girl]

i wonder if your spouses would say the same thing if they were aware of how much you two enjoyed yourselves.

 

Well obviously not. My point was that we (the two having the affair) found it mutually beneficial, not an uneven relationship where one was left wanting more or where one expected more.

 

Unlike my marriage

Edited July 14, 2015 by Sassy Girl

[beatcuff]

WOW. I feel so honored. I think my post received the most [non-repetitive] responses AND the most likes to those responses in LS this year and maybe of all time. And those responses (unwittingly) support my case: M is near death/already over.

 

 

Please do not read into the use of gender, I have no interest in saying he and/or she in this response.

 

 

 

A is a symptom of the breakdown of the M, a break down that started some time ago. Just because you were not aware does not make it “not possible”. Indeed the Separation and Divorce section is filled with the posters saying “I did not know”. But they did, upon reflection, they just missed the signs.

 

 

 

The foundation lies in communication. Communication can be spoken (easiest) or thru body language. We are familiar with two and do well with one: many on this board do best with talking. This thread is evidence to that. What was the ACTUAL question posed? Well you could not tell by the responses. It also immediately was taken over by BS stating why they were wronged and/or why they need to be heard. Yet another thread jack a/k/a talking. And we talk to be --- heard or to be right.

 

 

The second listening. Far too many of us fail, you might HEAR what is said but fail to listen. Ever see another couple argue? Ever wonder why they talking over the other? Their mind is already formulating a response even before the other person has STARTED. Eventually your partner tires of it, then autopilot: “yes hunny”, “will do”, “whatever you say”. They say anything just to shut you up.

 

 

The third is forgotten: comprehension. Understanding what is being said. I am certain we have all failed at times and for some always. Mainly because this one is the most challenging. She says X but means Y: “stop playing those video games” may really mean: I need you to spend time with me.

 

 

Communication breaks down on day 1: the dreaded assumption. Ever buy a house? In the USA there are numerous documents, you can measure the package in inches. You sign in dozens of places. Now look at your marriage agreement. It is one page, a handful of words: no responsibilities, no obligations, basically nothing. It is the partners that fill in the blanks. But we don’t. We do a lot of assuming. Worse we assume the other KNOWS what we ‘filled in’.

 

 

M did not fail overnight, at first the aggrieved party may have ‘overlooked’ and patched it up (but more like covered it up). WS talked, we failed to listen or comprehend. Over time the rift became too great. WS looked elsewhere (subtle at first): tv, video games, friends, alcohol, work --- it was only time before it was someone else.

 

 

Which goes back to the OP. The hope would be the failure of this M will provide lessons for the next. Maybe the WS learned something, maybe this time it will be different, maybe they will listen more maybe the M too young or quick, maybe they weren’t ready or maybe they are doomed to repeat.

 

 

 

Now to actual responses:

 

 

A lot of people cheat for the excitement….

If the M is young: seriously, is this really up for debate. He was what he was. He was not ready for M. He went along to ‘shut you up’. You thought he would change. You were blinded by love. You did not listen: to your parents, your best friend or any friend. They all said it. You even stopped seeing some that voiced their concerns. Maybe someday he will be marriage material, but not today.

If the M is old: people love to laugh off: middle aged crisis (I prefer ‘realization of your mortality’). Well just because you did not experience does not make it so. I never even seen Measles. But I still got my children vaccinated. Sometime in your 40’s you suddenly realize you are on the downside of life. Your vision changes, as does your hearing, it takes days to recover from activities it used to take hours. Is this it? She is always in sweat pants, gained weight, her hair…. And him with that beer belly and that same F’n t-shirt --- didn’t I throw that out 5 times already? And the garbage. Wait there are others out there that still care about their appearance? Dare I? Do I still have it? No wait its wrong --- to W “hunny let’s go out Friday night”, response: “are you kidding, there is laundry, dishes, kids have X in the morning AND another thing why haven’t you done X and Y, I have asked you a hundred times”.

 

 

Best predictor of future behavior is past behavior

I object to the term BEST. I agree past behavior does give provide insight but it is not the end all.

And you do not believe it either. So when you were considering M to your mate did you do a full background check? Of course not? But why not? If it is the BEST predictor then why not afford yourself that information. We are back to assuming again. That the other side will understand what we think M is.

 

 

 

Cheater apologists believe that cheaters cheat …

Because they think the M is dead. It’s over, you refuse to believe it. You chose to ignore all the ‘red flags’ about the trouble in the M.

 

 

 

I cannot speak too lowly of those WS that I have come across.

This begs where rapist and murders appear but more importantly instead of using it as a teachable moment you instead refuse to listen and comprehend: so you are doomed to repeat the failure. Oh wait, you have a plan for the new S: no privacy (shared passwords, phone, etc), you spend your days worrying that he (new H) will be him (old WS) --- what a miserable life, for both of you.

So it appears you never forgive that mistake. Well cheating is a form of lying. Lying to your S, the M, God… But we all lie, don’t we? Sorry that does not fit your hatred, so we can ignore it.

 

 

Why do the majority beg for reconciliation when their affair is exposed?

It would make sense if the M was dead that being caught should be a ‘relief’; ‘we can move on’. I think anyone who has been in a lengthy (over 10 years) relationship has at one point been tempted to either: end it or stray. What brings us back: guilt, denial, embarrassment, bargaining (it will get better), kids, money/life style, friends, all of these? Maybe the A was not what they thought it would be. Maybe it ended already? Maybe the A jolted the BS to change? Maybe they are afraid of change? Maybe they are still uncertain?

 

 

Bringing this back to the OP: I think the responses sum up the fact many BS see their WS as one dimensional. He is a CHEATER, and will ALWAYS be one, nothing more. There is no excuse, no reason no ‘nothing’ to… They allow their anger to suppress the positives or the why I first dated him. He is a moron, he lost a good thing, he is………human and humans make mistakes. For some that realization means opening the door to R for others it’s time to close this chapter in their life. But only then will life move forward.

[minimariah]

^^

 

nailed it, beatcuff.

fantastic post.

[goodyblue]

WOW. I feel so honored. I think my post received the most [non-repetitive] responses AND the most likes to those responses in LS this year and maybe of all time. And those responses (unwittingly) support my case: M is near death/already over.

 

 

Please do not read into the use of gender, I have no interest in saying he and/or she in this response.

 

 

 

A is a symptom of the breakdown of the M, a break down that started some time ago. Just because you were not aware does not make it “not possible”. Indeed the Separation and Divorce section is filled with the posters saying “I did not know”. But they did, upon reflection, they just missed the signs.

 

 

 

The foundation lies in communication. Communication can be spoken (easiest) or thru body language. We are familiar with two and do well with one: many on this board do best with talking. This thread is evidence to that. What was the ACTUAL question posed? Well you could not tell by the responses. It also immediately was taken over by BS stating why they were wronged and/or why they need to be heard. Yet another thread jack a/k/a talking. And we talk to be --- heard or to be right.

 

 

The second listening. Far too many of us fail, you might HEAR what is said but fail to listen. Ever see another couple argue? Ever wonder why they talking over the other? Their mind is already formulating a response even before the other person has STARTED. Eventually your partner tires of it, then autopilot: “yes hunny”, “will do”, “whatever you say”. They say anything just to shut you up.

 

 

The third is forgotten: comprehension. Understanding what is being said. I am certain we have all failed at times and for some always. Mainly because this one is the most challenging. She says X but means Y: “stop playing those video games” may really mean: I need you to spend time with me.

 

 

Communication breaks down on day 1: the dreaded assumption. Ever buy a house? In the USA there are numerous documents, you can measure the package in inches. You sign in dozens of places. Now look at your marriage agreement. It is one page, a handful of words: no responsibilities, no obligations, basically nothing. It is the partners that fill in the blanks. But we don’t. We do a lot of assuming. Worse we assume the other KNOWS what we ‘filled in’.

 

 

M did not fail overnight, at first the aggrieved party may have ‘overlooked’ and patched it up (but more like covered it up). WS talked, we failed to listen or comprehend. Over time the rift became too great. WS looked elsewhere (subtle at first): tv, video games, friends, alcohol, work --- it was only time before it was someone else.

 

 

Which goes back to the OP. The hope would be the failure of this M will provide lessons for the next. Maybe the WS learned something, maybe this time it will be different, maybe they will listen more maybe the M too young or quick, maybe they weren’t ready or maybe they are doomed to repeat.

 

 

 

Now to actual responses:

 

 

A lot of people cheat for the excitement….

If the M is young: seriously, is this really up for debate. He was what he was. He was not ready for M. He went along to ‘shut you up’. You thought he would change. You were blinded by love. You did not listen: to your parents, your best friend or any friend. They all said it. You even stopped seeing some that voiced their concerns. Maybe someday he will be marriage material, but not today.

If the M is old: people love to laugh off: middle aged crisis (I prefer ‘realization of your mortality’). Well just because you did not experience does not make it so. I never even seen Measles. But I still got my children vaccinated. Sometime in your 40’s you suddenly realize you are on the downside of life. Your vision changes, as does your hearing, it takes days to recover from activities it used to take hours. Is this it? She is always in sweat pants, gained weight, her hair…. And him with that beer belly and that same F’n t-shirt --- didn’t I throw that out 5 times already? And the garbage. Wait there are others out there that still care about their appearance? Dare I? Do I still have it? No wait its wrong --- to W “hunny let’s go out Friday night”, response: “are you kidding, there is laundry, dishes, kids have X in the morning AND another thing why haven’t you done X and Y, I have asked you a hundred times”.

 

 

Best predictor of future behavior is past behavior

I object to the term BEST. I agree past behavior does give provide insight but it is not the end all.

And you do not believe it either. So when you were considering M to your mate did you do a full background check? Of course not? But why not? If it is the BEST predictor then why not afford yourself that information. We are back to assuming again. That the other side will understand what we think M is.

 

 

 

Cheater apologists believe that cheaters cheat …

Because they think the M is dead. It’s over, you refuse to believe it. You chose to ignore all the ‘red flags’ about the trouble in the M.

 

 

 

I cannot speak too lowly of those WS that I have come across.

This begs where rapist and murders appear but more importantly instead of using it as a teachable moment you instead refuse to listen and comprehend: so you are doomed to repeat the failure. Oh wait, you have a plan for the new S: no privacy (shared passwords, phone, etc), you spend your days worrying that he (new H) will be him (old WS) --- what a miserable life, for both of you.

So it appears you never forgive that mistake. Well cheating is a form of lying. Lying to your S, the M, God… But we all lie, don’t we? Sorry that does not fit your hatred, so we can ignore it.

 

 

Why do the majority beg for reconciliation when their affair is exposed?

It would make sense if the M was dead that being caught should be a ‘relief’; ‘we can move on’. I think anyone who has been in a lengthy (over 10 years) relationship has at one point been tempted to either: end it or stray. What brings us back: guilt, denial, embarrassment, bargaining (it will get better), kids, money/life style, friends, all of these? Maybe the A was not what they thought it would be. Maybe it ended already? Maybe the A jolted the BS to change? Maybe they are afraid of change? Maybe they are still uncertain?

 

 

Bringing this back to the OP: I think the responses sum up the fact many BS see their WS as one dimensional. He is a CHEATER, and will ALWAYS be one, nothing more. There is no excuse, no reason no ‘nothing’ to… They allow their anger to suppress the positives or the why I first dated him. He is a moron, he lost a good thing, he is………human and humans make mistakes. For some that realization means opening the door to R for others it’s time to close this chapter in their life. But only then will life move forward.

 

What a great post. <3 <3 <3

[Arieswoman]

beatcuff,

 

I do not agree with this;-

 

A is a symptom of the breakdown of the M, a break down that started some time ago. Just because you were not aware does not make it “not possible”. Indeed the Separation and Divorce section is filled with the posters saying “I did not know”. But they did, upon reflection, they just missed the signs.

 

In my sitch I was not getting my needs met, so after 5 years of marriage I told my exH that I wanted things to change. I was very clear on what I wanted him to do to make things more fair for me.

 

He made some modest effort but after a year it all started to slide again and then he began his affair (unbeknown to me) and he changed. He was sullen, withdrawn, sarcastic and nasty. At first I put it down to stress at work, but then I began to wonder if he was cheating. He denied it, and kept on denying it.

 

His behaviour did not change until his affair began, by which time he had turned the marriage into an "open marriage" without my knowledge or consent.

 

You talk about "communication" - but how can anyone communicate with someone who lies, sulks, or agrees with what you say and then ignores it?

 

I refuse point-black to take responsibility for someone else's ****ty entitled behaviour, for their poor communication and coping skills and their lack of moral fibre.

[goodyblue]

beatcuff,

 

I do not agree with this;-

 

 

 

In my sitch I was not getting my needs met, so after 5 years of marriage I told my exH that I wanted things to change. I was very clear on what I wanted him to do to make things more fair for me.

 

He made some modest effort but after a year it all started to slide again and then he began his affair (unbeknown to me) and he changed. He was sullen, withdrawn, sarcastic and nasty. At first I put it down to stress at work, but then I began to wonder if he was cheating. He denied it, and kept on denying it.

 

His behaviour did not change until his affair began, by which time he had turned the marriage into an "open marriage" without my knowledge or consent.

 

You talk about "communication" - but how can anyone communicate with someone who lies, sulks, or agrees with what you say and then ignores it?

 

I refuse point-black to take responsibility for someone else's ****ty entitled behaviour, for their poor communication and coping skills and their lack of moral fibre.

 

You just contradicted yourself. You said your needs were not being met. That would be a breakdown in the marriage. Then things began to slide after a year... another breakdown. But then you say his attitude didn't change (sullen etc) until the affair.

 

What makes you think his needs were being met if yours were not?

 

 

 

You don't have to be responsible for his actions but he is not responsible for you not getting over it and moving on.

 

Wanted to make it more fair for you, why not make it more fair for both of you?

Edited July 15, 2015 by goodyblue

[Arieswoman]

Goodyblue,

You just contradicted yourself.

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

What makes you think his needs were being met if yours were not?

 

because it had slid into a one-sided relationship where he was putting in minimal effort and I was picking up all his lazy slack. Plus he never complained about anything. He had every opportunity to voice any dissatisfaction but chose not to do so.

 

Wanted to make it more fair for you, why not make it more fair for both of you?

 

OK, maybe a poor choice of words - perhaps I should have said "equally fair for both parties."

 

If he wasn't happy, he didn't have to stay. I was working f/t (and earning more money than him) and we had no children. Or, I could have left and he could have bought me out.

Instead of being honest and asking for an amicable divorce, he decided to cheat.

 

There was no excuse for that.

[goodyblue]

Goodyblue,

 

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

 

 

because it had slid into a one-sided relationship where he was putting in minimal effort and I was picking up all his lazy slack. Plus he never complained about anything. He had every opportunity to voice any dissatisfaction but chose not to do so.

 

 

 

OK, maybe a poor choice of words - perhaps I should have said "equally fair for both parties."

 

If he wasn't happy, he didn't have to stay. I was working f/t (and earning more money than him) and we had no children. Or, I could have left and he could have bought me out.

Instead of being honest and asking for an amicable divorce, he decided to cheat.

 

There was no excuse for that.

 

Did you ever remarry or are you in a relationship?

[Arieswoman]

Goodyblue,

 

You asked;

 

Did you ever remarry or are you in a relationship?

 

After 15 + years of being single I remarried. My present husband and I have been together for 10 years.

[goodyblue]

Goodyblue,

 

You asked;

 

 

 

After 15 + years of being single I remarried. My present husband and I have been together for 10 years.

 

I am glad to hear it.

[minimariah]

but with this post, you basically confirmed what beatcuff said --

 

In my sitch I was not getting my needs met, so after 5 years of marriage I told my exH that I wanted things to change. I was very clear on what I wanted him to do to make things more fair for me. He made some modest effort but after a year it all started to slide again and then he began his affair (unbeknown to me) and he changed.

 

you didn't have a blissfully happy marriage BEFORE his A. you had problems, he wasn't trying enough. you voiced your concerns, he tried but not enough & THEN started an A. so prior to the A, you had a man who didn't care about you & didn't have you as his #1 priority.

 

an A came as a result of a bad marriage -- that's not on YOU because you clearly tried hard to work it out but it wasn't a happy marriage. it isn't a happy marriage unless you have two people who are BOTH HAPPY. what beatcuff said - the A is a sign of a marriage breakdown and that's correct in your situation. beatcuff also said that there are usually signs of something being wrong in your marriage -- that is also true in your case because your H didn't bother to meet your needs. your marriage wasn't working and the A came as a result of that.

[cocorico]

To the OW's out there who take up with their APs... good luck to you. Anyone who cheats on his wife is obviously willing to risk it all for some strange.

 

Not when "strange" is what they're married to - those MM are happy to dump weird for a chance at normal.

[cocorico]

However, the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

 

This is patently untrue, as everyone who cheats has a first time - before which they hadn't ever cheated. Which, if the old saw was true, would mean their past behaviour of never cheating would be the best predictor, ie, they'd never cheat. But clearly, at some point, they break from past behaviour, and it ceases to be a predictor of any value.

 

Many of those people go on never to cheat again. Some do. So for some, it's a good predictor, and for others, a useless one. Which means, it's pretty unreliable since you cannot know whether in your case it will be a reliable predictor or not.

 

Logic 101.

[Got it]

Like others, we did not assume we were dancing off into lalaland. Since we both were married at the time the affair started we were both committed to looking at issues that brought us to that point and evaluate how we could improve ourselves. So we did counseling individually and together in the affair as well as after it.

 

There are no guarantees, I completely understand that and I would be a fool, in any relationship, to never think infidelity could happen. But because of that we have structured our relationship differently than our past relationships and have prioritized features that we knew failed/our personal failures in past relationships. So we have a very open, transparent, actively committed relationship where both parties are putting in energies every day.

 

And for us, I actually make more money but we are both do well individually so together it is a very comfortable life. So we can afford to outsource things that we couldn't do before and we are appreciative of that. We know how hard finances are on a family and what stress that has caused in other chapters of our lives. So we work around two careers by dividing and conquering tasks.

 

I think it is hard to say anything at this point. I think many struggle knowing the past, knowing energies put into the present, and feeling confident of the future without being told they are naive, short sighted or ignorant. I have no crystal ball. All I know is I have enjoyed every moment I have had with this man and am so blessed to have him in my life. I love him in a manner I have never loved anyone.

[Arieswoman]

Minimariah - post #90,

I hear what you're saying but I feel it over-simplifies the situation.

 

I don't believe that in any marriage the parties can fulfill each other's needs 100%, nor that they should be expected to do so. That's putting too much of a burden on the other party.

 

So I don't agree with the definition that the marriage is necessarily "broken-down" because needs are not being met by the other party. And, as someone else posted, when do you pull the plug? The first time your needs don't get met? The second? The hundredth?

 

I know of many people who are living with a partner who, because of reasons outside their control such as illness, cannot fulfill all their partner's needs. Are their marriages all broken down? Does that give the partner licence to cheat? I don't think so.

 

I take exception to the continual rhetoric peddled by cheater apologists, that tries to make it the BS's fault because they were cheated on. Because they "didn't listen", because "they ignored red flags".

 

No-one makes a cheater cheat. That is their choice and their's alone. At any time during the relationship the WS could have had an honest conversation, gone to a therapist, moved out etc. They didn't - they decided to cheat instead.

 

It is very ironic that in my sitch it was me who wasn't getting my needs met but it was my exH who cheated !

[nightmare01]

Minimariah - post #90,

I hear what you're saying but I feel it over-simplifies the situation.

 

I don't believe that in any marriage the parties can fulfill each other's needs 100%, nor that they should be expected to do so. That's putting too much of a burden on the other party.

 

So I don't agree with the definition that the marriage is necessarily "broken-down" because needs are not being met by the other party. And, as someone else posted, when do you pull the plug? The first time your needs don't get met? The second? The hundredth?

 

I know of many people who are living with a partner who, because of reasons outside their control such as illness, cannot fulfill all their partner's needs. Are their marriages all broken down? Does that give the partner licence to cheat? I don't think so.

 

I take exception to the continual rhetoric peddled by cheater apologists, that tries to make it the BS's fault because they were cheated on. Because they "didn't listen", because "they ignored red flags".

 

No-one makes a cheater cheat. That is their choice and their's alone. At any time during the relationship the WS could have had an honest conversation, gone to a therapist, moved out etc. They didn't - they decided to cheat instead.

 

It is very ironic that in my sitch it was me who wasn't getting my needs met but it was my exH who cheated !

 

If a WS is in the mode of blaming their BS.. as in "my BH was always working and was never there for me" (pretty common excuse). I like to ask, what did the WW do to make her husband work so much?

 

Maybe she was a bitch at home and so he stayed at work because it was a refuge.

 

"my wife/husband won't have sex with me" - well, maybe you suck in bed. Maybe your spouse is just not that into you.

 

ETA.

My point being if the WS is in the cause & effect mind set, I wonder the WS did to cause the cause that made them have their affair.

[Arieswoman]

nightmare01,

 

My point being if the WS is in the cause & effect mind set, I wonder the WS did to cause the cause that made them have their affair.

 

Wow, now that's getting complicated.

 

I don't believe that anything "wrong" in a marriage causes an affair. If someone chooses to have an affair because of a problem in the marriage (either real or imagined) that is their choice.

 

That's why I said in my last post that I was sick of posts from cheaters not owning their own $h!£.

 

Infidelity is abuse.

Blaming the cheated on is like blaming the rape or sexual assault victim. There has been a tremendous shift in not blaming victims of these crimes and that is something I have witnessed in my lifetime (in UK certainly)

Some people need to shift their understanding of infidelity and begin to understand it as abuse.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Arieswoman

[Arieswoman]

Corocio,

I stand by what I say about past behaviour being a determining factor of future behaviour.

 

Generally speaking people don't change but I concede there are exceptions.

 

It requires a lot of effort, introspection, honesty and a strong understanding of why change is needed. "Bad" behaviour is an indicator of deeper conflicts and struggles that are complex and confusing, not to mention scary, intense, and painful. Unless the inner discordant thoughts are recognised and changed, behaviour remains.

 

There are those who genuinely want to be better because the old way doesn't work anymore and they see that they simply must change, and they will do what's required.

 

Cheaters cheat because they have any one or more of the following characteristics ; sense of entitlement, poor coping skills, selfishness, lack of empathy, boxed moral compass.

 

Unless they address their issues then the chance of them repeating their behaviour is pretty high.

[cocorico]

Corocio,

I stand by what I say about past behaviour being a determining factor of future behaviour.

 

Generally speaking people don't change but I concede there are exceptions.

 

It requires a lot of effort, introspection, honesty and a strong understanding of why change is needed. "Bad" behaviour is an indicator of deeper conflicts and struggles that are complex and confusing, not to mention scary, intense, and painful. Unless the inner discordant thoughts are recognised and changed, behaviour remains.

 

There are those who genuinely want to be better because the old way doesn't work anymore and they see that they simply must change, and they will do what's required.

 

Cheaters cheat because they have any one or more of the following characteristics ; sense of entitlement, poor coping skills, selfishness, lack of empathy, boxed moral compass.

 

Unless they address their issues then the chance of them repeating their behaviour is pretty high.

 

He flight that crashed in the Andes resulted in the survivors eating their fellow passengers, in order to survive. None had previously been cannibals; none were cannibals since. It was a survival strategy to cope with an extremely stressful situation. That is what many people who have As feel about heir own "cheating".

[goodyblue]

Corocio,

I stand by what I say about past behaviour being a determining factor of future behaviour.

 

Generally speaking people don't change but I concede there are exceptions.

 

It requires a lot of effort, introspection, honesty and a strong understanding of why change is needed. "Bad" behaviour is an indicator of deeper conflicts and struggles that are complex and confusing, not to mention scary, intense, and painful. Unless the inner discordant thoughts are recognised and changed, behaviour remains.

 

There are those who genuinely want to be better because the old way doesn't work anymore and they see that they simply must change, and they will do what's required.

 

Cheaters cheat because they have any one or more of the following characteristics ; sense of entitlement, poor coping skills, selfishness, lack of empathy, boxed moral compass.

 

Unless they address their issues then the chance of them repeating their behaviour is pretty high.

 

My guy doesn't really have any of the attributes you listed. He was a bit of a doormat but he has worked on speaking up for himself.

 

He was unhappy for many years and just kind of resigned himself to that being his life. He tried to fill the void with volunteer work and church, work. Then... when we got together (when we became very close but before the affair, I think he was so starved for attention that he made the choice to pursue me. But he still was afraid to leave at first because of the church thing. Then when we put a concrete plan in place, he began mourning that part of his life, preparing to move on.

 

What we did was difficult. It was not some fling or getting some strange. It is as a huge transition but thankfully he realized he deserved more than something barely passing as mediocre.

 

Neither of us had been part of an affair before and wouldn't be again. It was just too difficult for us both. I would end us first and so would he.

 

Past behavior being a predictor of future behavior... he is not even the same person that he was back then. It is not accurate no matter what that weirdo Dr. Phil says.

[Arieswoman]

Cocorico,

 

He flight that crashed in the Andes resulted in the survivors eating their fellow passengers, in order to survive. None had previously been cannibals; none were cannibals since. It was a survival strategy to cope with an extremely stressful situation.

 

You quote an extreme example of a life & death situation.

(However, they did not harm anyone in order to survive.)

Many people in a theatre of war, had to kill people in order to survive.

 

However, we are not talking about bootcamp at Basra here.

 

That is what many people who have As feel about heir own "cheating".

 

I find it hard to believe than anyone, in a bad marital situation, could feel so powerless and in fear of their own existence that they felt that cheating would somehow solve the problem? What does that say about their own coping skills, conflict avoidance behaviours?

 

I have worked in healthcare for many years and have known many women in bad relationships ( both socially and workwise) where they were abused both physically and mentally, both overtly and insidiously.

 

The majority of these women got professional help and left, (sometimes with only the clothes on their backs and a bag of nappies for the baby). Not one of them, that I know of, thought that f***ing the milkman or the telephone engineer was a solution to their situation.