Arieswoman Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 There are A LOT of bored husbands out there who feel 'neglected' because their wives are trying to do everything and do it well - be a mother, the cook, the laundress, the housekeeper, the food shopper, the wife, the exciting sex partner and everything else that comes with running a household, having kids, and being married. Lots of husbands sulk their poor, deprived little asses off because they're being 'neglected' by their wives who are usually working twice as hard as they are in any given 24 hour period. Instead of actually pitching in and doing their share so that the wife doesn't have that load on her shoulders, they start looking around for someone who WILL cater to them, instead. You see this crap all the time. Their marriages aren't almost dead; these guys are just being selfish wankers who'd rather please themselves instead of investing their energy where it SHOULD be invested. This x 100 ^^^^^ 2
WasOtherWoman Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 This x 100 ^^^^^ I hear you, I do. But, I don't see why someone would allow themselves to get into this situation in the first place. Why? No one should be so eager to please that they entirely loose themself What was described in that quote was not a partner, but a slave???? Granted, we are fortunate in that we have a lot of household help, but there is no way that I would ever allow my husband to get comfortable with me in that role. Can someone help me understand why someone would want to become "wonder woman"?
goodyblue Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I hear you, I do. But, I don't see why someone would allow themselves to get into this situation in the first place. Why? No one should be so eager to please that they entirely loose themself What was described in that quote was not a partner, but a slave???? Granted, we are fortunate in that we have a lot of household help, but there is no way that I would ever allow my husband to get comfortable with me in that role. Can someone help me understand why someone would want to become "wonder woman"? Well, i had a great career before i moved across the country to be with my guy. I gave it up whrn i left beause he makes a very good living and i want to take care of him and the kids. I like making.dure has good meals, a clean home etc. That being.said, we do a lot together as a couple and a family. We go out alone or with friends a couple of times a week and travel. We also do things to unwind (we are camping for a week right now two states away, cruise in August, and my oldest two kids will be flown out to visit). I feel i need to do my part. But if i wanted out i could resume my career without a wrinkle.
autumnnight Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Can someone help me understand why someone would want to become "wonder woman"? We believed the lie that we had to be? Seriously, that whole Enjoli commercial mentality really did a number on a lot of women. 3
minimariah Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 But, more importantly, no matter what happens, I will be fine. Don't get me wrong, I adore my husband and I have a better life than I ever could have hoped or dreamed of. But - if all that went away tomorrow and I had just me? I'd be ok. this is EXACTLY how i think. it's like you literally read my mind! LOL. i loved, LOVED my xH... but when our marriage ended, it wasn't the end of my world. every relationship is a risk and we don't know what will happen tomorrow... sure, you can do everything in your power to make sure your partner is happy, to make sure YOU are happy and to make sure that your union is a passionate, healthy, intimate one. but even then... sh*t happens. with my current partner... i didn't see this love coming. it's probably the strongest i've ever felt about someone and even though i'll be totally heartbroken if we end...? my world... once again, won't end. it's like - i can live without him just fine... but i don't want to. i don't NEED him... i WANT him. but if we were to end? i'll most definitely move on & survive... no doubt about that. also, being aware of the fact that infidelity CAN happen... helped me in "nailing" my xH's A in super early stages. i did trust him but at the same time... you gotta be aware of your own & your partner's vulnerability. But, I don't see why someone would allow themselves to get into this situation in the first place. ^^^^^^^^^ same. there is a lot of pressure on women to be EVERYTHING, i guess. naturally... that's absolutely impossible & folks get lost in it. ESPECIALLY with As. a friend of mine told me once she was a wonder woman because she was always so scared of failing in "one field" (sex, cooking, business) that her husband will eventually find it in someone else. so she tries to be EVERYTHING for him. but i learned one thing -- a relationship (marriage) survives as long as both partners want it to. when a woman starts to neglect her man and would rather be cooking, ironing & washing clothes instead of having hot, dirty & intimate sex with her spouse...? something is wrong. in other words, "wonder women" are usually just a trigger to an already rocky marriage. it's also a perfect test -- when you do find yourself in a situation when life gets in the way (& everyone does), you see how both of you as a couple work in solving problems, communicating & in tough moments. without those tough moments, the relationship never really progresses in a healthy way. 1
waterwoman Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 but i learned one thing -- a relationship (marriage) survives as long as both partners want it to. when a woman starts to neglect her man and would rather be cooking, ironing & washing clothes instead of having hot, dirty & intimate sex with her spouse...? something is wrong. Well I think that 'Wonder Woman' doesn't necessarily start out wanting to be wonder women. Standard Woman just marries a man she loves and puts up with this slight laziness because ...hey, no-ones perfect are they? She's got her faults too after all. And then the slight laziness becomes a bit worse and she tackles him about it - in a jokey way at first. And then starts to 'nag' (horrible word for something she doesn't want to have to be doing anyway) and things improve a little. And then they go back. And because she loves him and anyway no-ones perfect etc..... she stays with him. And then the years go by and the duties grow and she does a little more and a little more, and he gets a little bit worse...and then she can't leave him because you can't end a marriage over a bit of housework because she loves him and anyway no-ones perfect etc... And then babies arrive and you can't break up a family over a bit of housework because she loves him and anyway no-ones perfect etc.... It's like the boiled frog story. This particularly struck me - 'when a woman starts to neglect her man and would rather be cooking, ironing & washing clothes instead of having hot, dirty & intimate sex with her spouse...?'.... It might not be that she would rather being doing the housework but perhaps knowing that no other bugger is going to be doing it, she wants to get it out of the way before she runs out of steam. And may be she believes that looking after the family and the household where 'her man' lives isn't neglecting him at all but in fact showing her love and care. And maybe, perhaps, possibly, it's hard to want to be intimate with a man who appears to have so little affection for her as to allow her to skivvy herself to a standstill. For every burning domestic martyr there is someone there watching her burn 3
Noirek Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 On the topic of wonder woman, I have a friend I really worry about who also does everything. Her H is a self entitled nice guy. He makes a lot of money and that is it, even on his days off. They have three children and she told me that during their 10 year marriage he has done laundry only when she was hospitilized (not even when she was 9 months pregnant with any of the children) and she said she could probably count on one hand how many times he has cleaned something. But he is nice and buys her things. But he also talks down to her (and she doesn't even notice anymore). I think he may be in an affair because his behaviour is very similar to many of the stories told here and other sites. And his job requires him to be gone months at a time. On topic. Despite the above I don't like painting the broad brush strokes on people. It does no good. And I don't think all, usually or most change the individual circumstance. There are lots of exit affairs. People who can't be alone and so step from relationship to relationship. It is even listed as a type of affair. And I don't know if too many people, AP, WS, BS, every blindly trust again... Even if they say they do. You can't when you have been tainted by cheating. 2
goodyblue Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 this is EXACTLY how i think. it's like you literally read my mind! LOL. i loved, LOVED my xH... but when our marriage ended, it wasn't the end of my world. every relationship is a risk and we don't know what will happen tomorrow... sure, you can do everything in your power to make sure your partner is happy, to make sure YOU are happy and to make sure that your union is a passionate, healthy, intimate one. but even then... sh*t happens. with my current partner... i didn't see this love coming. it's probably the strongest i've ever felt about someone and even though i'll be totally heartbroken if we end...? my world... once again, won't end. it's like - i can live without him just fine... but i don't want to. i don't NEED him... i WANT him. but if we were to end? i'll most definitely move on & survive... no doubt about that. also, being aware of the fact that infidelity CAN happen... helped me in "nailing" my xH's A in super early stages. i did trust him but at the same time... you gotta be aware of your own & your partner's vulnerability. ^^^^^^^^^ same. there is a lot of pressure on women to be EVERYTHING, i guess. naturally... that's absolutely impossible & folks get lost in it. ESPECIALLY with As. a friend of mine told me once she was a wonder woman because she was always so scared of failing in "one field" (sex, cooking, business) that her husband will eventually find it in someone else. so she tries to be EVERYTHING for him. but i learned one thing -- a relationship (marriage) survives as long as both partners want it to. when a woman starts to neglect her man and would rather be cooking, ironing & washing clothes instead of having hot, dirty & intimate sex with her spouse...? something is wrong. in other words, "wonder women" are usually just a trigger to an already rocky marriage. it's also a perfect test -- when you do find yourself in a situation when life gets in the way (& everyone does), you see how both of you as a couple work in solving problems, communicating & in tough moments. without those tough moments, the relationship never really progresses in a healthy way. As i read this i realized i.don't do.everything! He does laundry, cleans up supper and makes lots of breakfasts. Lol. We have been at tje lake for three days and i have not.cooked a thing! I guess it is all give and take, but i.do take care of the house. He.fixes stuff because he is an engineer and has an aptitude for it. We work together well.
WasOtherWoman Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 On the topic of wonder woman, I have a friend I really worry about who also does everything. Her H is a self entitled nice guy. He makes a lot of money and that is it, even on his days off. They have three children and she told me that during their 10 year marriage he has done laundry only when she was hospitilized (not even when she was 9 months pregnant with any of the children) and she said she could probably count on one hand how many times he has cleaned something. But he is nice and buys her things. But he also talks down to her (and she doesn't even notice anymore). I think he may be in an affair because his behaviour is very similar to many of the stories told here and other sites. And his job requires him to be gone months at a time. . Here's what I don't understand. If her husband makes a lot of money, for gosh sake's hire some of this stuff out! No one should be wasting time cleaning or doing laundry if they don't have to. 2
Noirek Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Here's what I don't understand. If her husband makes a lot of money, for gosh sake's hire some of this stuff out! No one should be wasting time cleaning or doing laundry if they don't have to. I don't think they are very good with their money. We are talking a lot of money as in blue collar people. Not a lot as in ceo. I believe he makes upwards to 200,000 a year. Anyways, he is traditional. Her job description is to cook, clean and raise the kids. His is to make money and play video games and do "manly" work.
WasOtherWoman Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 On topic. Despite the above I don't like painting the broad brush strokes on people. It does no good. And I don't think all, usually or most change the individual circumstance. There are lots of exit affairs. People who can't be alone and so step from relationship to relationship. It is even listed as a type of affair. And I don't know if too many people, AP, WS, BS, every blindly trust again... Even if they say they do. You can't when you have been tainted by cheating. Agree with the above, but i would have to say that unfortunately, no one should really be BLINDLY trusting anyone other than themselves. Anything other than that is just setting yourself up. It is sad, but it just is not smart...
WasOtherWoman Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I don't think they are very good with their money. We are talking a lot of money as in blue collar people. Not a lot as in ceo. I believe he makes upwards to 200,000 a year. Anyways, he is traditional. Her job description is to cook, clean and raise the kids. His is to make money and play video games and do "manly" work. Still, 200K is not bad money. Have at least a cleaning service come in once a week to do the heavy stuff should be doable. But - did she agree to this job description and is she majorly trying to overachieve? What really worries me about this picture is though, that I don't believe anyone should give up the ability to support themselves anymore. We all have seen what can happen. It's all a good idea until someone decides they want out, and it generally does not work in the non-working spouses favor, long term.
minimariah Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 As i read this i realized i.don't do.everything! He does laundry, cleans up supper and makes lots of breakfasts. Lol. We have been at tje lake for three days and i have not.cooked a thing! I guess it is all give and take, but i.do take care of the house. He.fixes stuff because he is an engineer and has an aptitude for it. We work together well. don't worry goody, i know what you meant in your post. i don't think you're a "wonder woman" in terms of being some kind of "slave" to your husband, not at all. you & your H work well like a team, you clearly do what works fantastic for the both of you & the result of that is a happy and healthy union. my post was about those "wonder women" and i do see them around me. it's this constant struggle to be perfect & to be everything... you know? a mother, wife, business woman, housewife, porn star, therapist, best friend... some women do have that need to just be... EVERYTHING. & it's draining. and they aren't even doing it for themselves, because THEY want to... it's out of fear of being cheated on, left behind and failing at something. totally fine when you give up things because you want to and because you know it will benefit you... it's a problem when you do it only to please the other person but not yourself and then you're... stuck. 3
Raena Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I hear you, I do. But, I don't see why someone would allow themselves to get into this situation in the first place. Why? No one should be so eager to please that they entirely loose themself What was described in that quote was not a partner, but a slave???? Granted, we are fortunate in that we have a lot of household help, but there is no way that I would ever allow my husband to get comfortable with me in that role. Can someone help me understand why someone would want to become "wonder woman"? Not all of us are fortunate enough to have a lot of household help. That's the long and short of it. Should it end up that you couldn't afford extra help to keep your house clean, would your husband pitch in and start doing the work with you? What if he doesn't? Do you just not do it then and live in a pigsty instead so that your man doesn't "see you in that role" of slave? More than likely no, you wouldn't. I'm just guessing here because I don't really know you. My point is, why is it so hard to understand this dynamic that's being described? That's what the role of women has traditionally been since the dawn of civilization (ok, not in ALL civilizations, some actually had women in positions of power). If you both work, have kids and a house to take care of, guess who gets to do most of that work? You got it, the woman because there are many men who feel like they shouldn't have to bother with cleaning, cooking or doing any "womanly" things. Heck, most men don't even notice the things that need to be done. Not all.... I get that... but it really shouldn't be that hard for you to imagine that this is a common dynamic in marriages. Particularly for the middle or lower class. What are you going to do... force your husband to clean up around the house or divorce him if he doesn't? I'm not being snarky here at all either... just saying... most people can't afford to pay others to keep their house clean for them, it has to get done, someone has to do it and if the husband won't do it, then the wife HAS to. Someone HAS to cook dinner, give the kids a bath, do the laundry, do homework with the kids and on and on and on. How do you MAKE a man help out if they decide they shouldn't have to?
Noirek Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Agree with the above, but i would have to say that unfortunately, no one should really be BLINDLY trusting anyone other than themselves. Anything other than that is just setting yourself up. It is sad, but it just is not smart... Oh i agree. No one should ever blindly trust another person. To blind trust means you don't see red flags when you should. The fact is a lot of spouses don't blind trust and that is why they do catch the red flags and then their spouse. 2
minimariah Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 And I don't know if too many people, AP, WS, BS, every blindly trust again... Even if they say they do. You can't when you have been tainted by cheating. you know, i think few people in general (A or not) trust blindly. it's like this - i trust my current partner until proven otherwise. but i'm also aware that things might change, i'm aware that we might change and i'm aware that we might be weak & not handle the situation in a healthy way. i know it CAN happen but i trust him that it won't. i "observe" him and his feelings, his emotions... his presence emotionally, sexually in our relationship. i "look out" for the red flags, if i see any? i'll check it out. blindly trusting are those who don't ever even take an A or their spouse cheating in consideration, i think few people really do that. even with those BS who had blind trust - you'll find that most STILL sensed something was wrong. i think it's like that with everyone. 1
WasOtherWoman Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Not all of us are fortunate enough to have a lot of household help. That's the long and short of it. Should it end up that you couldn't afford extra help to keep your house clean, would your husband pitch in and start doing the work with you? What if he doesn't? Do you just not do it then and live in a pigsty instead so that your man doesn't "see you in that role" of slave? More than likely no, you wouldn't. I'm just guessing here because I don't really know you. My point is, why is it so hard to understand this dynamic that's being described? That's what the role of women has traditionally been since the dawn of civilization (ok, not in ALL civilizations, some actually had women in positions of power). If you both work, have kids and a house to take care of, guess who gets to do most of that work? You got it, the woman because there are many men who feel like they shouldn't have to bother with cleaning, cooking or doing any "womanly" things. Heck, most men don't even notice the things that need to be done. Not all.... I get that... but it really shouldn't be that hard for you to imagine that this is a common dynamic in marriages. Particularly for the middle or lower class. What are you going to do... force your husband to clean up around the house or divorce him if he doesn't? I'm not being snarky here at all either... just saying... most people can't afford to pay others to keep their house clean for them, it has to get done, someone has to do it and if the husband won't do it, then the wife HAS to. Someone HAS to cook dinner, give the kids a bath, do the laundry, do homework with the kids and on and on and on. How do you MAKE a man help out if they decide they shouldn't have to? So I have been married twice (once long ago for a short time) and now for almost 15 years. I have always worked and never had children. Maybe the children are the tipping point? Anyway, I don't know how to answer your question, but if I were married to someone who treated me unequally and expected that I would take on significantly more of the household responsibilities than they did, I probably would divorce them. But not because i was doing more of the work, it would be because, somehow in their mind, my time was less valuable than theirs. I couldn't tolerate that. But - I also immediately divorced my ex husband all those years ago when I found out he was cheating, so maybe I am not a good one to ask?? 1
Raena Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 So I have been married twice (once long ago for a short time) and now for almost 15 years. I have always worked and never had children. Maybe the children are the tipping point? Anyway, I don't know how to answer your question, but if I were married to someone who treated me unequally and expected that I would take on significantly more of the household responsibilities than they did, I probably would divorce them. But not because i was doing more of the work, it would be because, somehow in their mind, my time was less valuable than theirs. I couldn't tolerate that. But - I also immediately divorced my ex husband all those years ago when I found out he was cheating, so maybe I am not a good one to ask?? Children definitely do tip the tables in cleaning and keeping up with their needs that's for sure. It does make a difference. But even in a childless family, so you just throw it all away because he's lazy? Maybe so, this is the "throw it away" society. I don't know the answer to it either.. but I do know it's not as simple as "I wouldn't put up with that". Cheating yes, dealbreaker, lazy arse? probably not." 1
WasOtherWoman Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Children definitely do tip the tables in cleaning and keeping up with their needs that's for sure. It does make a difference. But even in a childless family, so you just throw it all away because he's lazy? Maybe so, this is the "throw it away" society. I don't know the answer to it either.. but I do know it's not as simple as "I wouldn't put up with that". Cheating yes, dealbreaker, lazy arse? probably not." But in this case it wouldn't be laziness, it would be the fact that he felt his time was more important than mine. I honestly cannot even imagine my husband thinking that way, any more than I would feel that way about his. It is about a fundamental feeling of equality. How can a marriage prosper with anything less? Someone feeling that they are more valuable in our marriage than I am would most definitely be a deal breaker for me. Would you really feel ok with your husband prioritizing his time over yours? 2
Noirek Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I started a topic in the general relationship discussion about wonder woman. 1
Spark1111 Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 I hear you, I do. But, I don't see why someone would allow themselves to get into this situation in the first place. Why? No one should be so eager to please that they entirely loose themself What was described in that quote was not a partner, but a slave???? Granted, we are fortunate in that we have a lot of household help, but there is no way that I would ever allow my husband to get comfortable with me in that role. Can someone help me understand why someone would want to become "wonder woman"? Because I loved him? I wanted to support his career ambitions to the nth degree so I left mine at the roadside to raise our family and keep our home? Don't get me wrong....I loved every minute of it. I felt that was the most important job I would ever have and do not regret one minute of it. I also volunteered, baked, had half the neighborhood kids at my house, joined a few civic groups, fostered our friendships, cared for our aging parents and gave our children every opportunity we could afford and i could physically get them too. Sure didn't feel like slavery at all. To me, it felt like the most important 12 years of my life. I do not have one work memory that compares with being a supportive wife and devoted mother. Not one....and I'm back to my high-paying career feeling a lot of meh. 2
Arieswoman Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) waterwoman sums it up perfectly in post #59 I hear you, I do. But, I don't see why someone would allow themselves to get into this situation in the first place. Why? No one should be so eager to please that they entirely loose themself WoW, I don't think anyone sets out to be superwoman but in my case it just crept up on me. Plus I had FOO issues that made me a "pleaser". On top of that I made the mistake of not getting to know my first husband properly before I married him, so I didn't realise he was a lazy @r$e. I finally put my foot down and said that things had to change and he needed to pull his load, that I wasn't prepared to work F/T both outside and inside the house. His response was to cheat. He married his AP and guess what she's another "superwoman" She posts on FB about how he's always moaning and how she's keeping house for 5 etc etc. So far she's been hospitalised twice for depression and has had one suicide attempt. At least I got out before I lost the plot completely....... Edited July 11, 2015 by Arieswoman
Raena Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 But in this case it wouldn't be laziness, it would be the fact that he felt his time was more important than mine. I honestly cannot even imagine my husband thinking that way, any more than I would feel that way about his. It is about a fundamental feeling of equality. How can a marriage prosper with anything less? Someone feeling that they are more valuable in our marriage than I am would most definitely be a deal breaker for me. Would you really feel ok with your husband prioritizing his time over yours? Marriages can't prosper with less but thinking that you could just walk away if this was the issue is the problem. No, of course no one would feel ok with it, but they deal because you don't make mountains out of molehills... and in the moment, that's what it seems like.... not such a big deal. It isn't until is blows over that people realize... yep, I can't deal with that anymore, that's too much. At what point do you walk away? When they don't meet your needs the first time, the 10th, the 50th? Some people don't know how to walk away when they should or don't see the signs or say "I'm not ready to give up yet" and stay in a miserable marriage. Or instead they cheat and boo hoo about how miserable their marriage is. Or they keep putting up with the crap because you aren't suppose to just walk away and end up miserable wondering why they were cheated on. No woman is wonder woman, but society sure does make us feel like we should be. 1
goodyblue Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Raena, this is something only tje individuals in the marriage can decide. Some people with my dynamic would hate iy but it is happiness for us. It all depends on your needs within the relationship. People around you (general) can say what they like but in yhe end it is up to you to decide what you.will put up with or not. My son and his wife are in school, he in Elementary Ed, she in PreMed. When they have kids it has been decided he will be a sahd. That is what they want, he is.the oldest of 6, she an only.child. it makes sense for them but to others, it seems odd. It is the same in any marriage, only tje people in it cam decide how things are. 1
WasOtherWoman Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Because I loved him? I wanted to support his career ambitions to the nth degree so I left mine at the roadside to raise our family and keep our home? Don't get me wrong....I loved every minute of it. I felt that was the most important job I would ever have and do not regret one minute of it. I also volunteered, baked, had half the neighborhood kids at my house, joined a few civic groups, fostered our friendships, cared for our aging parents and gave our children every opportunity we could afford and i could physically get them too. Sure didn't feel like slavery at all. To me, it felt like the most important 12 years of my life. I do not have one work memory that compares with being a supportive wife and devoted mother. Not one....and I'm back to my high-paying career feeling a lot of meh. But WHY? Why were his career aspirations more important than your own? Why couldn't you both have had it all? I am not saying that raising kids and being a homemaker is not admirable, as is volunteer work, caring for aging parents etc. It totally is. But sounds like you did much of that alone and, I think we all know what happened in your story, your husband was "over-entitled" (I think that's the word used?) As for the work memories, me neither. But I don't feel "meh" about my high-paying career, since my last commission check funded our local pet pantry for the next entire year. Yep, someone's gotta do it. But then again, I am not sure what any of that really has to do with the need to be wonder woman?
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