Just a question for conversation:)

May 5, 2005

Whoooo I thought i would join in on this discussion. Let's see.. well, my husband had 7 affairs and those are the ones that I know about. I personally think there is probably more because he took 4 months to tell me about them.. and some of them I found out through talking to one of his many OW.

As far as the unmet need thing, I think it is possible. I mean, look at Mz Pixie. She was going through hell and her husband wasn't sharing the load. I am sure that having someone come along at that point and pay attention to her was irrisistable.

However, you people seem to forget that sometimes people are hardwired to cheat. For instance, my husband swears to this day that I was always the most attractive amazing woman he ever had in his life and that he was happy in the marriage. So how does that explain why he pretty much had someone else on the side throughout our 8 year marraige? Why would someone who is happy and love the other person cheat not just once but the WHOLE time? I think there are some strange and bizarre exceptions here and my husband is one of them.

He doesn't realize that the reasons he cheated and the reason I had my affair are two TOTALLY different reasons. I had lost trust in him and he was busy making me second in his life (first place was the band and OW) I caught him two times early in our marriage in an emotional affair. He NEVER wanted to address it and shoved it under the carpet. I eventually sought someone else.. which I take responsibility for. Was mine because of unmet needs? What are his?? I think there are way too many reasons people go out of their marriage... wayyyy too many to just say it's because of unmet needs.

May 5, 2005

people cheat because they are BORED with their lives and seek to 'rebel.' But 'rebelling' is hard if you have a house, a job, kids and 'security'. So you have an affair-its the easiest act of rebellion availiable.

people cheat also cause they are horny or curious.

In the end, it's all chemical. you meet someone and then WHOOSH, all those chemicals come rushing into your brain-all of sudden, you have these fantasies and desires...its best to ride out the chemical rush, and enjoy it without touching each other.

May 5, 2005

If affairs are just lust, then why is it that most of the women men have affairs with are low lifes or just plain ugly when they have a pretty wife who has a brain and class at home? The woman my husband had an affair with was homely, dumb and crude.......I just don't get it. If you are going to take that chance guys, why not make it worth it and find a beautiful woman to be unfailthful with.

Oh, wait a minute.........a beautiful woman with at head on her shoulders and some class wouldn't stoop to that level and have an affair with a married man.....i forgot!!!

May 5, 2005

Sorry Harley- you're wrong. I'm a beautiful woman who's highly intelligent who had a fling with a married man. Don't lump all OW into one category because some of them are quite beautiful and smart. Generalizing about all OW's is like saying everyone that's a different race or religious background is a certain way- when not everyone is.

The reason he cheated with her? Who knows- looks might not have had much to do with it.

I think you should start focusing more of your anger towards your husband- and not the OW. He had the committment to you- she didn't.

May 5, 2005

a beautiful woman with at head on her shoulders and some class wouldn't stoop to that level and have an affair with a married man.....i forgot!!!

Beautiful women, nice women, any women ... Doesn't matter... A bad choice and a mistake it just that, doesn't matter what one looks like. Has nothing to do with class either. It's about somebody not being in a healthy frame of mind and not thinking clearly either.

May 5, 2005

mx. pixie

my anger is directed at both of them. He had the commitment and she knew he was married so they are both wrong.

If you are a beautiful, intelligent woman and you had an affair with a married man then you sure don't think much of yourself. Maybe instead doggin' me you should take a look at your own self esteem.

I have no use for women who have affairs with men they KNOW are married. I can only hope someday the same thing happens to them so they know the hurt and pain it causes the trusting wife at home.

Am I bitter........hell YES!!!! so don't get on your soap box.....I already know it!!

May 5, 2005

I'm a beautiful woman who's highly intelligent who had a fling with a married man. Don't lump all OW into one category because some of them are quite beautiful and smart. .

I beg to differ, Mz. Pixie. A woman isn't too intelligent or smart if they go after another woman's husband. I've read too many posts on too many forums of how the majority of MM DO go back to their W. I don't think it is very smart to go into a relationship (w/ a MM or MW, anyway) not knowing if he/she will one day leave his/her W/H and go to you, the OW/OM. IMO

I think you should start focusing more of your anger towards your husband- and not the OW. He had the committment to you- she didn't.

As for that statement- that's the sad thing about OW. They get to use that excuse. My H's ex-OW tried that on me, too! I told her, my H was sincerely sorry and anyone with a brain and eyes in their head could tell she (OW) could care less what she had almost ruined. That's the difference in forgiving your H. I had to see for myself that he was TRULY heartfeltly sorry. I did. To this day, OW could pass me on the street and give me one of those belligerent looks because H came home and didn't stay with her.

I can honestly say, I'd look at her and of course remember what she did, but I pity her. I hope one day she realizes her mistakes and changes and never does that to anyone else. If she hasn't changed already.

May 6, 2005

For the record, you seem to think that all OW's pursue the OM??? If that's what helps you get through the day- great- but that's not reality.

My OM pursued me- not the other way around.

Some OW's do not want the OM to leave their wife, as in my situation. I'm fully admitting that I made a mistake, and I do regret it and just for your information, the OM's wife has forgiven both of us and MOVED ON. But, see, that's a major difference in the whole thing- because he admitted what he did- all of it- and admitted it was all his fault as he pursued me. He didn't blame his actions on me. He stepped up to the plate and accepted responsibility. Maybe if more cheating husbands did that you ladies could get some closure in these situations.

Harley- at least I had the sense to leave and not continue. Instead of asking me about my self esteem maybe you should look at your own. You're the one who continues to stay with your husband, after he cheated and he has blamed it on everything under the sun- including his alcoholism. He's still not very sorry for what he did- I've read your posts.

There's not a thing wrong with my self esteem, sugar.

May 6, 2005

You should have shown MORE sense by NOT going out with a MM. That's where you show TRUE intelligence. Let the MM be stupid and try, you could have been better than that.

Eventually he would have got the hint and moved on to someone more easy, that's all MM want outside the marriage anyway, something easy.

May 6, 2005

You know, I believe that no one is infallible and it does seem as if MsPixie is one of those people who was really lucky enough to realize what she was doing and put a stop to it. She shouldn't have to be made to feel bad for her entire life for something that she clearly sees now was a mistake. WE ALL MAKE THEM.

I'd love to think the OW my husband had an affair with was a stupid, ugly broad. But that isn't the truth. She was an intelligent and attractive (it really kills me to admit that) woman. She should not have gotten herself involved with a man that was married but it was my husband that cheated on me. Not her.

May 6, 2005

Well, I wish I could say, yes she was pretty and more attractive than me and smarter, blah, blah, blah, I would then be able to put a finger on why H had the A.

But, it's not the case in my H's book. She spent way to much time in a tanning bed, which made her look 10 years older than herself and me. Her brows had never seen a pair of tweezers and she was illbred and raised with the manners of an alleycat. She had no hygeine routine. (Where does that ammonia smell come from anyway when it's emmitted from a human?)

I have seen one or 2 OW who were prettier than the cheated on wife, but very rarely. And I still stand by my statement of intelligence.

Why DO smart girls go out with MM ? I just don't get it, ppl trying to explain them and their intellect after they've done something insane like that.

I have made mistakes in my life, but cheating on my spouse is not one of them. I could have done the pay him back, but I didn't because I had more respect for myself than that.

May 6, 2005

Never say Never.

I used to say the exact same thing. You don't know what life has in store for you. I used to judge women that had affairs. I cut off a very good friendship because she had an affair. I had no tolerance for it at all. I looked down my nose at these women too. Then it happened to me.

Notrust

May 6, 2005

I wasn't saying that I thought the OW in my life was more attractive and intelligent than myself. But she was no skank or dumb a$$. She held a good job and was a pretty woman. She made a very bad choice. And I don't know if she learned from that choice or not. But all I am saying is that some people do learn from their mistakes. MsPixie seems to have big time and I can tell it isn't something she'd do again. I believe in giving people second chances and to not hang something over someones head if they have tried to make amends. Smart people sometimes make very foolish and hurtful choices. It's when they keep doing those choices over and over again that makes them seem very stupid.

May 6, 2005

Yes, as when the husband continues to cheat and the wife stays or vice versa.

The thing is, I'm saying you cannot make assumptions about how people are.

I swore I'd never do anything like that- Just as no trust said- I looked down on people that did- then I did it.

You just cannot judge someone until you've been in their shoes. It might make you feel better, but it's generally not true.

By the way, thanks Philly!

May 6, 2005

Pixie,

You condemn my husband and me, but try and justify what you did with a married man....your no different or better than either of us.

Yes my husband blames the other woman and the alcohol and me, but he he also blames himself. If you did read my posts you will see that his biggest problem was telling the whole truth once it was out. He didn't say he had no blame in it or that he wasn't sorry, just has a problem fessing up completely and being honest.

I stay with him because I stuck it out through years of alcoholism and now he is sober. I am not going to run now, I am going to stick around awhile and see what if anything changes. I promised him a year and will keep my word.

You on the other hand seem to think it is OK for you to sleep with married men as long as the circumstances are in your favor. Well hell, then we are all free to sleep with married men. You can condemn me and you can condemn my husband, you have that right, but we can condemn you for your way of thinking as well. You think it is ok to screw another womans husband and we don't! Look in the mirror before you start throwing stones at others. What you did was immoral and wrong and you coming on here trying to justify it is wrong too.

Grow up and get your own husband.........and by the way I hope he cheats on you! Would serve you right. That would more than likely take the justification wind out of your cheating with married men sail!!!!!!!

May 6, 2005

When a spouse cheats it's both the spouse and the OP fault, not one or the other. BUT if the OW knows a man is married, whether it be a good marriage or not, she needs to back the he!! off from the mm. The OW does have a choice in the A. Who cares if the MM goes after her first, it's still wrong, period. We all have choice, have an A w/ a MP or not, it's that simple.

We all make mistakes in our life, but how is sleeping w/ someone's spouse a mistake. What was that saying from Die Hard, I think that was it, "So you just slipped and fell on his dick!" I can understand if you are attracted to someone who is married, but taking it farther than that is not a mistake. I could have easliy fallen for this certain MM but I chose not to b/c he was married. I was thinking about his WIFE and I didn't even know her.

I met a very attractive guy one night and spent some time talking w/ him. He kissed me and that was it. We invited him and his friend to our party we were having. A friend of mine happen to know this guy so when he showed up asking for me she pulled me aside and told me he was married. I went to the door where he was and slapped him and told him "How dare you not tell me you were married, get the he!! out of here!" and walked away. Him and his friend left. He was a very sweet, very attractive man, but he was married, and I wasn't going there. OW/OM do have a choice, they can say NO! Sorry to be so harsh but it ticks me off when the OW say they couldn't help but sleeping w/ a MM, they made a mistake, blah, blah, blah. It's not a mistake, it's called not giving a s*** about anyone else's feelings but your own.

May 6, 2005

"You condemn my husband and me, but try and justify what you did with a married man....your no different or better than either of us."

I'm not condemning you- and I never said I was any better than either of you- read again.

"I stay with him because I stuck it out through years of alcoholism and now he is sober. I am not going to run now, I am going to stick around awhile and see what if anything changes. I promised him a year and will keep my word."

Good for you- I hope it works out.

"You on the other hand seem to think it is OK for you to sleep with married men as long as the circumstances are in your favor."

I never said that it was okay, Harley- you need to read again. What I said was that not all women who have affairs with married men are stupid or ugly. You were the one who attacked me.

"You think it is ok to screw another womans husband and we don't!"

I never said that it was okay.

"What you did was immoral and wrong and you coming on here trying to justify it is wrong too"

I don't have to try and justify my actions to you. Yes, what I did was immoral and wrong- just like what your husband did was immoral and wrong.

"Grow up and get your own husband.........and by the way I hope he cheats on you! Would serve you right. That would more than likely take the justification wind out of your cheating with married men sail!!!!!!!"

Gee that's such a nice thing to say- I can sort of see what your problems at home might have been.

May 6, 2005

BUT if the OW knows a man is married, whether it be a good marriage or not, she needs to back the he!! off from the mm. The OW does have a choice in the A. Who cares if the MM goes after her first, it's still wrong, period. We all have choice, have an A w/ a MP or not, it's that simple.... It's not a mistake, it's called not giving a s*** about anyone else's feelings but your own.

My situation involved the much younger single OM and MW. This is the same thing I told her. It was not a mistake; it was a crazy risk full of contradictions and consequences.

May 6, 2005

One of my very best friends lived with her boyfriend like forever and they had a son. The man cheated on her constantly so she went and had an A with a MM. She fully regretted it and when she told me, I didn't coddle her and coo and tell her it was ok. She knew what I thought and she was totally in remorse about it. She didn't recommend it to anyone as a way of revenge. So, I know about that close to home.

I think if the ones who cheat with a MP realize after they do it once that it's wrong and don't do it again, then those ppl should be commended. They have a self conscience and therefore a heart and compassion. Those I can't say anything bad about, but it's the ones who think that it's the best thing ever, I have a BIG PROB with. How can you feel good about hurting ppl like that?

We shouldn't bash the OW/OM on the forum by giving our opinion, but it's ok for those OW/OM to tear families apart and come on here and complain about it or ask questions on how to make their lives better.

Where is the sense in that? I'm at a loss.

May 7, 2005

As to the question of why people cheat.....

I think that the people either have that tendency to cheat or not. I think it is a very selfish act where the cheater is only thinking of himself/herself. The whole "needs not being met" theory is crap. We all have needs not being met. If you're in a relationship, where say, your sexual needs are not being met, and you TELL the spouse there is a serious problem here, we need to talk, etc. and the spouse doesn't listen, then forewarn them that separation/divorce might just be around the corner and if nothing changes follow through on a separation. Committing adultery is not the way to go - nobody wins in this situation. If, heaven forbid, separation happens and the "unhearing" spouse then "hears" and communication is opened, at least the only "bump" in the road of this relationship is the separation because there wasn't communication. That "bump" is MUCH easier to overcome then the "bump" of pain called infidelity.

I would fall into the "don't" category. I don't care what anyone says even those that say "you have never been in that situation, you don't know what you'd do". Yes I do know - I wouldn't cheat! In my first marriage, my husband got heavy into gambling and drinking and lost a 20 yr good paying job. We had 3 small children and creditors after us all the time. I was miserable and he wouldn't change. Really I had no help from him in any shape or form. At times if it wasn't for my kids, I probably would have committed suicide - it was that bad. He wasn't communicating with me (except to yell and fight), sex was about nonexistent, money was also nonexistent. My family got to the point of hating him and wanting me to get away from him so I had the family pulling me the other way. I guess I would have loved for a man to tell me I was pretty, I was doing a good job raising my 3 kids on the money I had, and that life would get better. Did I cheat?? No! Did I even think about cheating?? No! I knew before doing it, it was wrong. I was married and I sure didn't want to drag some poor guy into this mess that I called my life. THat would not have been fair to anyone involved including my husband!

For me there are things in life that are wrong and I wouldn't even consider doing it. A few are murder, robbery, and cheating. In any of these cases, there's just too much to lose.

SueBee

May 8, 2005

To that, SueBee, I say a heartfelt AMEN!

I agree with you and that's exactly how I feel about cheating. It's a choice to some ppl, it's out of the question for others. It has never been a choice to me. I could never look myself in the mirror and feel anything but contempt for myself if I did that. Even when my H had his A. I just felt the replulsiveness of that act wash over me and I knew I'd never do that.

May 8, 2005

Well said SueBee!!! Can I ask you how you are doing now? My H and I separated 2 years ago and he had an A w/ a co-worker. After he broke it off w/ her she got him fired from his job. He is making half of what he was there and we are suffering horribly financially. Even though I have been paying my car loan on time we can't pay the credit cards. We have creditors calling us all the time, the phone is always ringing. We never had it this bad, ever. If he would of agreed to the separation and not stuck his d!ck somewhere where it doesn't belong he would still have that good paying job, we would have a nice home, and creditors wouldn't be calling us non stop all day.

Hope things are better for you now, Suebee

May 8, 2005

Although not the original point raised in this thread, it seems the topic has evolved to include a discussion of whether or not OW/OM are conceivably intelligent, attractive, worthwhile people.

I am highly intelligent. I'm successful. I'm beautiful by most standards. I'm funny, a great friend, educated, etc. And, I was an OW. I got involved in a relationship with someone who wasn't available, someone who told me he was. And my heart was broken. Does that make me stupid? Absolutely not. I was gullible, I believed what my heart wanted to believe, I trusted someone in my search for love, but I'm not an idiot. Or trash. Far from it.

May 9, 2005

we all make good choices and bad choices is life. Sleeping w/ a MM/MW is a very bad choice as is have sex outside your marriage.

May 9, 2005

we all make good choices and bad choices is life. Sleeping w/ a MM/MW is a very bad choice as is have sex outside your marriage.

kkat wasn't referring to posts that state the obvious : engaging in an extramarital affair is a bad "choice." Very few would dispute that.

What offends many are posts which condemn affair participants, especially as compared to the morally flawless poster, as bad "people." There's a difference. It's almost as if some posters consign affair participants to second class citizenship. And when that happens, the fireworks usually start.

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Just a question for conversation:)

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